You're just trying to tempt us to log in and try it. *wagging clawed finger*

Theignson wrote: »

This iteration of Vengeance is an improvement. There is a noticeable increase in damage and build variety.

Had some great fights-- not zerg fests, but real battles. Last night DC and EP one bar, that is still more than the usual 2 bars on live. About 30 EP tried to re-take Chal, Got through the outer and the real battle began. Lots of pure melee with small groups of DC.

This was fighting more like PvP in 2017-2018. No unkillable tanks, no immortal 3, 4, 6 or 12 man groups. No over-performing proc sets carrying groups. If you over committed, you would die most times. You had to be fast on your back bar and defend as well as attack. Combinations could kill people and skill made a difference
EP got a postern down but DC eventually won. They outplayed EP. Lots of 1v1 and small group battles on the walls.

Sure there is still lots that needs improvement, oils are too strong, etc etc. Sure I miss my builds, I miss my CP. But this is the most fun for a long time in actual battles. I saw several other old timers and experienced PvPers. Did not see the usual ballgroups and small groups. They should try it and get away form the old, stale, boring, RoA/VD/Charm meta that has ruined PvP. Groups do make a difference here. With the increased damage builds (using the "scout" load out) even 2v1 can dissolve you quickly if you don't react fast.

Ah yes, another pro vengeance statement about all things other than performance. Top notch.

isn't it 900 total for vengeance across all factions? So 3x300, 100 per bar abouts?

Orbital78 wrote: »

isn't it 900 total for vengeance across all factions? So 3x300, 100 per bar abouts?

Yes, I mean, in total, and it does not matter, I will edit for correctness. I should not post numbers, I could simply say, with 1 Vengeance bar vs 2 normal bars you can't say for sure if it is more or less, because 1 bar can mean 0 people, but 2 normal bars - not.

Same as every other iteration of vengeance. It's just a zerg fest. Nothing else matters.

If this is the future of ESO PvP the future of ESO PvP is dead.

This test has been better than the previous ones, mostly because we finally have more options. And I appreciate that it clearly showed everyone why Cyrodiil suffers from so much latency—huge groups stacking heals, buffs, and AoEs absolutely choke the server.

Seeing long-standing issues reduced—overhealing, extreme movement speed creating LOS problems, unlimited buffs, and ball group imbalance—is a big step forward. The healing changes, in particular, feel great and should have happened years ago. Overhealing and stacked HoTs didn’t just break gameplay—they were one of the major causes of lag in large fights.

But even with these improvements, we’re swinging too far toward an FPS-style loadout system.
This is an MMORPG. It should play like one.

Please let us build our characters the same way we do in PvE, with smart restrictions where needed. ESO thrives on depth, customization, and theorycrafting. If PvE were forced into FPS-style presets, it wouldn’t survive—and PvP shouldn’t be pushed in that direction either.

Right now, the test is fun but shallow. There’s no small-group play, little strategy, and mostly giant zergs. With so many people on the map, flanking or coordinated tactics are meaningless—you just get erased by a wall of AoE snares and siege.

ESO PvP needs balance and performance fixes, yes—but it also needs to remain an MMORPG with real build identity, not a simplified FPS loadout shooter.

I'm not particularly enjoying it. It's just a numbers game. No matter skill or anything if you have the largest group you're going to win. It's a pain especially when you can't get your faction to stick together.

There's zero variety, I can't build how I want to build, and combat feels slow and nerfed. I mean seriously we spent like 40 mins at a keep defense just to lose because we got 2v1'd and wasted all that time for nothing.

The only good things about vengeance is the ability to channel repair walls/doors (genuinely like this!) and the extra AP.

Divine1976 wrote: »

Once the novelty wears off it is boring.

Biggest zerg wins, never thought I would miss bombers

Depends, if you don't have chain pullers in your zerg, you're at a disadvantage. If your zerglings can't focus fire on an opponent, while the opposing zerg can focus fire, your zerg gets whittled down faster. If you don't use some DoT's to mitigate DoT healing on your enemy, your stun/burst isn't as effective.

Bombers are frankly overkill as a solution to zergs, and in live do little to a coordinated group.

Agreed! This test has been feeling a lot better.

The earlier tests had a lot of situations where numbers were the only thing that mattered. A group of 40 players would defeat one of 20, every time.

But now with the loadout system I'm seeing a lot more variety in the roles, strengths and weaknesses. And I'm seeing different playstyles. Brawlers causing chaos behind the front lines, ranged glass cannons, healers and support players keeping numbers up, etc.

I would like to say though that the loadout system is a bit hard to understand. It's not immediately obvious that the loadouts themselves give you stat bonuses on top of the recommended perks and skills (which I'm certain most players will change anyway)

What if the loadout system was done through armor? Maybe as a single piece, for the sake for simplicity.

Imagine opening your inventory and seeing a chestpiece named "Vanguard Cuirass", "Scout Jack", "Battle Medic Robes", etc. And in the set bonus of the item you see the same stat adjustments present in the current system.

What do you all think? Would this be a bit more intuitive?

Radiate77 wrote: »

I don’t feel like fights in Vengeance are fast enough, and not having Subclassing, are the two reasons I hopped out of the campaign after a few hours and don’t plan on going back.

We spent all this time making new “classes” with Subclassing, and we can’t even use them in Vengeance. It blows my mind that the year’s major system would be stripped away in the one place people wouldn’t complain about it.

The main reason I love Vengeance is we don't get one shot like this player would do with all his advanced gear and weapons not to mention the ball group type support with healing.

The only PVP I play these days is Vengeance. And yes, Zergs are great fun. So nice to see all those "super" players on a somewhat level playing field.

BTW a lot of us don't think much of subclassing.

Theignson wrote: »

This iteration of Vengeance is an improvement. There is a noticeable increase in damage and build variety.

Had some great fights-- not zerg fests, but real battles. Last night DC and EP one bar, that is still more than the usual 2 bars on live. About 30 EP tried to re-take Chal, Got through the outer and the real battle began. Lots of pure melee with small groups of DC.

This was fighting more like PvP in 2017-2018. No unkillable tanks, no immortal 3, 4, 6 or 12 man groups. No over-performing proc sets carrying groups. If you over committed, you would die most times. You had to be fast on your back bar and defend as well as attack. Combinations could kill people and skill made a difference
EP got a postern down but DC eventually won. They outplayed EP. Lots of 1v1 and small group battles on the walls.

Sure there is still lots that needs improvement, oils are too strong, etc etc. Sure I miss my builds, I miss my CP. But this is the most fun for a long time in actual battles. I saw several other old timers and experienced PvPers. Did not see the usual ballgroups and small groups. They should try it and get away form the old, stale, boring, RoA/VD/Charm meta that has ruined PvP. Groups do make a difference here. With the increased damage builds (using the "scout" load out) even 2v1 can dissolve you quickly if you don't react fast.

Agreed. I was in the mix somewhere there and also had a great time. It was nice to feel free to engage other players without worrying about builds and other specific things like bombers and DarkC/RoA (in general). I chose my faction a little bit better this time and took a little extra time to make better decisions when fighting and it all turned to gold. No bombers or ball groups was wonderful. I know it was kind of lackluster as far as builds and sets and such were concerned, but what made it great was everyone fighting based on their ability and not OP performance meta builds and groups just walking over everyone else with a computer doing the work for them.

Several times I took on, well one group in particular and it was nice to be able to fight against them, watch them fall sometimes instead it just being an automatic death sentence for anyone wanting to PvP against them. Watching them hesitate as I 'approached' was refreshing. They and their guild leader probably had forgotten what it was like to actually PvP instead of mindless deadbeat repetition in their silly group, always on their terms and them winning perhaps 98% of the time, mocking everyone else in zone (which they have been known to do). Several times that night, their lofty Guild Leader fled during the fighting (Roe, Brk, Chal) and abandoned his group. Again, he runs at the prospect of facing me in a fair fight. So let him he keep on running. They scattered and we took our time cutting them down, again and again. Justice was served.

If nothing else, we'd never know the difference if it wasn't for Vengeance. ZOS, for what it's worth, for me, this Vengeance experience has been a real eye opener, its offered a change in PvP culture that was sorely needed, you shook things up and so we were able to get a fair shake instead of always getting stomped on by these folks that no one can question or PvP against. For this you have my personal thanks and gratitude, and I hope the test helps in the way of moving things forward.