Why does ESO look like this?

Chili_Pepper · December 5

I like both, vanilla and reshade. But anyway ESO is VERY beautiful game

I mean,as ESO visual is good by default,all this filters - talking about preferences.
I have VA matrix and black colour is really nice on my monitor,so i havent problems with black in vanilla graphics

Sluggy · December 5

disky wrote: »

... I don't know if anyone that has replied has actually addressed that point, and instead try to provide other ways of addressing it, such as with GPU or monitor settings. That's not the point. The point is the game itself, and why the default settings are the way that they are.

This was already answered by several people in several ways. To quote myself:

Sluggy wrote: »

In the end it comes down to preference and artistic choice. Some prefer a more balanced color without the blow-outs and black-outs and some prefer a stronger contrast. It's also why you monitor and video card come with tons of settings to choose from in order to modify color and contrast balance as well.

disky wrote: »

That's fair, but if the fact that this game has been around for a while is the issue, then why is it that Reshade is still such a common tool for fixing this kind of thing in other, newer games?

'Fix' is a subjective term. I can also make the game completely greyscale with Reshade. Does that count as fixing it as well? I find most reshade presets to be garish, bordering on absurd. Your example certainly isn't one and I rather like it. But that makes it no less subjective. It's the equivalent to saying louder music is better sounding.

P.S. Can I take a moment to point out how hard it is to multi-quote on this forum currently

JeroenB · December 5

disky wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Guys, I fully agree that monitors and GPU settings vary, and you may not agree with my Reshade configuration, but even after viewing this on multiple monitors and my phone, I think they still look much better than the default, which presents a grey fog and muddier textures no matter what. Adjust contrasts per your preference and it's clearly better than vanilla.

That's your opinion, and one you're perfectly entitled to hold.

I initially thought you had put this thread up in order to have an open discussion on the merits and demerits of Reshade, and whether developers should use it as standard. It now seems increasingly clear that you won't accept any contrary opinions from posters whose faulty settings are in your view responsible for them not seeing Reshade as clearly better than vanilla.

I'm not talking about the merits and demerits of Reshade, I'm trying to discuss the default settings for the game, and why they look foggy and muddy, and why other games do as well. I'm including Reshade in the discussion because the reason it is frequently used is as a way of fixing this. I don't know if anyone that has replied has actually addressed that point, and instead try to provide other ways of addressing it, such as with GPU or monitor settings. That's not the point. The point is the game itself, and why the default settings are the way that they are.

Because those are an artistic choice that the developers, and many players, prefer. Obviously this in no way invalidates your preference for a different artistic choice, and many other players with you. Equally, the fact that you and many others prefer the style of ReShade does not invalidate the preference of those who dislike that style.

Hopefully this is not your intention, but to my impression, the way you keep phrasing your arguments in this thread do leave the impression that you are attempting to deny the default style of the game as a valid artistic preference. Your choice of words come across as 'because ReShade is popular, you are weird if you do not prefer the ReShade style over the default style'.

[Edit for typo.]

disky · December 5

Chili_Pepper wrote: »

I like both, vanilla and reshade. But anyway ESO is VERY beautiful game

Not denying that. I think it needs some visual updates and it seems to be getting them, but there are plenty of beautiful places in the game.

disky · December 5

JeroenB wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Guys, I fully agree that monitors and GPU settings vary, and you may not agree with my Reshade configuration, but even after viewing this on multiple monitors and my phone, I think they still look much better than the default, which presents a grey fog and muddier textures no matter what. Adjust contrasts per your preference and it's clearly better than vanilla.

That's your opinion, and one you're perfectly entitled to hold.

I initially thought you had put this thread up in order to have an open discussion on the merits and demerits of Reshade, and whether developers should use it as standard. It now seems increasingly clear that you won't accept any contrary opinions from posters whose faulty settings are in your view responsible for them not seeing Reshade as clearly better than vanilla.

I'm not talking about the merits and demerits of Reshade, I'm trying to discuss the default settings for the game, and why they look foggy and muddy, and why other games do as well. I'm including Reshade in the discussion because the reason it is frequently used is as a way of fixing this. I don't know if anyone that has replied has actually addressed that point, and instead try to provide other ways of addressing it, such as with GPU or monitor settings. That's not the point. The point is the game itself, and why the default settings are the way that they are.

Because those are an artistic choice that the developers, and many players, prefer. Obviously this in no way invalidates your preference for a different artistic choice, and many other players with you. Equally, the fact that you and many others prefer the style or ReShade does not invalidate the preference of those who dislike that style.

Hopefully this is not your intention, but to my impression, the way you keep phrasing your arguments in this thread do leave the impression that you are attempting to deny the default style of the game as a valid artistic preference. Your choice of words come across as 'because ReShade is popular, you are weird if you do not prefer the ReShade style over the default style'.

I don't consider it to be an artistic choice at all. I consider it to be graphics settings and tech which don't do the game, which does contain art, justice. I guess I can't expect players who like things the way they are, whether it's because they're used to something and don't like change or not, to appreciate that it can be better, but I'm using ESO as the prime example of something that is happening in other games as well. For whatever reason, studios are flattening out their color balance and choosing to blandify the experience when it seems really unnecessary and counterproductive to do so.

Sluggy · December 5

disky wrote: »

I don't consider it to be an artistic choice at all. I consider it to be graphics settings and tech which don't do the game, which does contain art, justice. I guess I can't expect players who like things the way they are, whether it's because they're used to something and don't like change or not, to appreciate that it can be better, but I'm using ESO as the prime example of something that is happening in other games as well. For whatever reason, studios are flattening out their color balance and choosing to blandify the experience when it seems really unnecessary and counterproductive to do so.

Whether or not you like it doesn't decide if it's an artistic choice or not. It is still a choice that has artistic merit.

Soarora · December 5

Okay, I agree with everyone else that disky's comparisons aren't great because the shadows get too dark. But here's some screenshots in old zones with and without some reshade options:

I usually play with reshade off, partly because mine in particular makes purples bluish. I turn it on for screenshots, though.

disky · December 5

Sluggy wrote: »

disky wrote: »

I don't consider it to be an artistic choice at all. I consider it to be graphics settings and tech which don't do the game, which does contain art, justice. I guess I can't expect players who like things the way they are, whether it's because they're used to something and don't like change or not, to appreciate that it can be better, but I'm using ESO as the prime example of something that is happening in other games as well. For whatever reason, studios are flattening out their color balance and choosing to blandify the experience when it seems really unnecessary and counterproductive to do so.

Whether or not you like it doesn't decide if it's an artistic choice or not. It is still a choice that has artistic merit.

I think it's a game development/presentation choice. The art was done before it hit the player's screen. It's like taking the Mona Lisa and putting it behind foggy glass.

disky · December 5

Soarora wrote: »

Okay, I agree with everyone else that disky's comparisons aren't great because the shadows get too dark. But here's some screenshots in old zones with and without some reshade options:

I usually play with reshade off, partly because mine in particular makes purples bluish. I turn it on for screenshots, though.

I'm fine with people disagreeing with my choices, again, that's not the point. Yours look different from mine, but I agree that they definitely look better than vanilla.

Soarora · December 5

disky wrote: »

Here's Skingrad.

For further comparison here's what the same spot looks like to me:

No reshade:

Reshade with LUT (the bit that makes my purples bluish):

Reshade without LUT:

My game's lacking in vibrancy comparatively and I'm not sure why, but it does make everything feel more... lifeless.

JeroenB · December 5

disky wrote: »

JeroenB wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Guys, I fully agree that monitors and GPU settings vary, and you may not agree with my Reshade configuration, but even after viewing this on multiple monitors and my phone, I think they still look much better than the default, which presents a grey fog and muddier textures no matter what. Adjust contrasts per your preference and it's clearly better than vanilla.

That's your opinion, and one you're perfectly entitled to hold.

I initially thought you had put this thread up in order to have an open discussion on the merits and demerits of Reshade, and whether developers should use it as standard. It now seems increasingly clear that you won't accept any contrary opinions from posters whose faulty settings are in your view responsible for them not seeing Reshade as clearly better than vanilla.

I'm not talking about the merits and demerits of Reshade, I'm trying to discuss the default settings for the game, and why they look foggy and muddy, and why other games do as well. I'm including Reshade in the discussion because the reason it is frequently used is as a way of fixing this. I don't know if anyone that has replied has actually addressed that point, and instead try to provide other ways of addressing it, such as with GPU or monitor settings. That's not the point. The point is the game itself, and why the default settings are the way that they are.

Because those are an artistic choice that the developers, and many players, prefer. Obviously this in no way invalidates your preference for a different artistic choice, and many other players with you. Equally, the fact that you and many others prefer the style or ReShade does not invalidate the preference of those who dislike that style.

Hopefully this is not your intention, but to my impression, the way you keep phrasing your arguments in this thread do leave the impression that you are attempting to deny the default style of the game as a valid artistic preference. Your choice of words come across as 'because ReShade is popular, you are weird if you do not prefer the ReShade style over the default style'.

I don't consider it to be an artistic choice at all. I consider it to be graphics settings and tech which don't do the game, which does contain art, justice. I guess I can't expect players who like things the way they are, whether it's because they're used to something and don't like change or not, to appreciate that it can be better, but I'm using ESO as the prime example of something that is happening in other games as well. For whatever reason, studios are flattening out their color balance and choosing to blandify the experience when it seems really unnecessary and counterproductive to do so.

It would appear that your response is to deny outright the validity of other people having a preference for visual appearances different than your own. You state yet again that your personal preference is objectively better than the default game, and essentially state ("I guess I can't expect ...") that there is something 'wrong' with everyone in this thread who has expressed a preference for the default game screenshots.

disky wrote: »

Sluggy wrote: »

disky wrote: »

I don't consider it to be an artistic choice at all. I consider it to be graphics settings and tech which don't do the game, which does contain art, justice. I guess I can't expect players who like things the way they are, whether it's because they're used to something and don't like change or not, to appreciate that it can be better, but I'm using ESO as the prime example of something that is happening in other games as well. For whatever reason, studios are flattening out their color balance and choosing to blandify the experience when it seems really unnecessary and counterproductive to do so.

Whether or not you like it doesn't decide if it's an artistic choice or not. It is still a choice that has artistic merit.

I think it's a game development/presentation choice. The art was done before it hit the player's screen. It's like taking the Mona Lisa and putting it behind foggy glass.

The scope of the word "art" is unreasonably limited as you use it here. How a museum creator chooses to display a given artwork is itself in part an artistic choice. Just because you do not like an artistic expression does not stop it being an artistic expression.

Sluggy · December 5

disky wrote: »

Sluggy wrote: »

disky wrote: »

I don't consider it to be an artistic choice at all. I consider it to be graphics settings and tech which don't do the game, which does contain art, justice. I guess I can't expect players who like things the way they are, whether it's because they're used to something and don't like change or not, to appreciate that it can be better, but I'm using ESO as the prime example of something that is happening in other games as well. For whatever reason, studios are flattening out their color balance and choosing to blandify the experience when it seems really unnecessary and counterproductive to do so.

Whether or not you like it doesn't decide if it's an artistic choice or not. It is still a choice that has artistic merit.

I think it's a game development/presentation choice. The art was done before it hit the player's screen. It's like taking the Mona Lisa and putting it behind foggy glass.

Art is whatever creative process humans use to express and present something. I'm partial to heavy use of post processing shaders to modify the original art I create for my games. I often create the raw assets themselves with that final step in mind. It's part of how I present that expression, therefore, part of the artistry itself.

Like I said before, Color is an insanely deep topic that touches many fields including biology, physics, mathematics, and psychology and that's before you even get to the technological side of things for color reproduction.

disky · December 5

Soarora wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Here's Skingrad.

For further comparison here's what the same spot looks like to me:

No reshade:

Reshade with LUT (the bit that makes my purples bluish):

Reshade without LUT:

My game's lacking in vibrancy comparatively and I'm not sure why, but it does make everything feel more... lifeless.

Bleh. I'm so sorry.

disky · December 5

JeroenB wrote: »

disky wrote: »

JeroenB wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Guys, I fully agree that monitors and GPU settings vary, and you may not agree with my Reshade configuration, but even after viewing this on multiple monitors and my phone, I think they still look much better than the default, which presents a grey fog and muddier textures no matter what. Adjust contrasts per your preference and it's clearly better than vanilla.

That's your opinion, and one you're perfectly entitled to hold.

I initially thought you had put this thread up in order to have an open discussion on the merits and demerits of Reshade, and whether developers should use it as standard. It now seems increasingly clear that you won't accept any contrary opinions from posters whose faulty settings are in your view responsible for them not seeing Reshade as clearly better than vanilla.

I'm not talking about the merits and demerits of Reshade, I'm trying to discuss the default settings for the game, and why they look foggy and muddy, and why other games do as well. I'm including Reshade in the discussion because the reason it is frequently used is as a way of fixing this. I don't know if anyone that has replied has actually addressed that point, and instead try to provide other ways of addressing it, such as with GPU or monitor settings. That's not the point. The point is the game itself, and why the default settings are the way that they are.

Because those are an artistic choice that the developers, and many players, prefer. Obviously this in no way invalidates your preference for a different artistic choice, and many other players with you. Equally, the fact that you and many others prefer the style or ReShade does not invalidate the preference of those who dislike that style.

Hopefully this is not your intention, but to my impression, the way you keep phrasing your arguments in this thread do leave the impression that you are attempting to deny the default style of the game as a valid artistic preference. Your choice of words come across as 'because ReShade is popular, you are weird if you do not prefer the ReShade style over the default style'.

I don't consider it to be an artistic choice at all. I consider it to be graphics settings and tech which don't do the game, which does contain art, justice. I guess I can't expect players who like things the way they are, whether it's because they're used to something and don't like change or not, to appreciate that it can be better, but I'm using ESO as the prime example of something that is happening in other games as well. For whatever reason, studios are flattening out their color balance and choosing to blandify the experience when it seems really unnecessary and counterproductive to do so.

It would appear that your response is to deny outright the validity of other people having a preference for visual appearances different than your own. You state yet again that your personal preference is objectively better than the default game, and essentially state ("I guess I can't expect ...") that there is something 'wrong' with everyone in this thread who has expressed a preference for the default game screenshots.

disky wrote: »

Sluggy wrote: »

disky wrote: »

I don't consider it to be an artistic choice at all. I consider it to be graphics settings and tech which don't do the game, which does contain art, justice. I guess I can't expect players who like things the way they are, whether it's because they're used to something and don't like change or not, to appreciate that it can be better, but I'm using ESO as the prime example of something that is happening in other games as well. For whatever reason, studios are flattening out their color balance and choosing to blandify the experience when it seems really unnecessary and counterproductive to do so.

Whether or not you like it doesn't decide if it's an artistic choice or not. It is still a choice that has artistic merit.

I think it's a game development/presentation choice. The art was done before it hit the player's screen. It's like taking the Mona Lisa and putting it behind foggy glass.

The scope of the word "art" is unreasonably limited as you use it here. How a museum creator chooses to display a given artwork is itself in part an artistic choice. Just because you do not like an artistic expression does not stop it being an artistic expression.

Well, you're free to enjoy foggy blandness I suppose. There was a period when just about every game had what appeared to be a urine-colored tint that covered everything, which we tolerated back then in the name of "realism" and nowadays most people consider to be hideous, so maybe one day your mind will change about this as well.

ESO_player123 · December 5

disky wrote: »

JeroenB wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Guys, I fully agree that monitors and GPU settings vary, and you may not agree with my Reshade configuration, but even after viewing this on multiple monitors and my phone, I think they still look much better than the default, which presents a grey fog and muddier textures no matter what. Adjust contrasts per your preference and it's clearly better than vanilla.

That's your opinion, and one you're perfectly entitled to hold.

I initially thought you had put this thread up in order to have an open discussion on the merits and demerits of Reshade, and whether developers should use it as standard. It now seems increasingly clear that you won't accept any contrary opinions from posters whose faulty settings are in your view responsible for them not seeing Reshade as clearly better than vanilla.

I'm not talking about the merits and demerits of Reshade, I'm trying to discuss the default settings for the game, and why they look foggy and muddy, and why other games do as well. I'm including Reshade in the discussion because the reason it is frequently used is as a way of fixing this. I don't know if anyone that has replied has actually addressed that point, and instead try to provide other ways of addressing it, such as with GPU or monitor settings. That's not the point. The point is the game itself, and why the default settings are the way that they are.

Because those are an artistic choice that the developers, and many players, prefer. Obviously this in no way invalidates your preference for a different artistic choice, and many other players with you. Equally, the fact that you and many others prefer the style or ReShade does not invalidate the preference of those who dislike that style.

Hopefully this is not your intention, but to my impression, the way you keep phrasing your arguments in this thread do leave the impression that you are attempting to deny the default style of the game as a valid artistic preference. Your choice of words come across as 'because ReShade is popular, you are weird if you do not prefer the ReShade style over the default style'.

I don't consider it to be an artistic choice at all. I consider it to be graphics settings and tech which don't do the game, which does contain art, justice. I guess I can't expect players who like things the way they are, whether it's because they're used to something and don't like change or not, to appreciate that it can be better, but I'm using ESO as the prime example of something that is happening in other games as well. For whatever reason, studios are flattening out their color balance and choosing to blandify the experience when it seems really unnecessary and counterproductive to do so.

For me it's not about what I'm used to. It's about the reshaded versions being irritating to my eyes. The boundaries are too crips, the coloring is too jarring and dark. I feel that my eyes would tire after looking at this for prolonged periods of time. So, it's definitely not better for me even if it is for you.

disky · December 5

ESO_player123 wrote: »

disky wrote: »

JeroenB wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Guys, I fully agree that monitors and GPU settings vary, and you may not agree with my Reshade configuration, but even after viewing this on multiple monitors and my phone, I think they still look much better than the default, which presents a grey fog and muddier textures no matter what. Adjust contrasts per your preference and it's clearly better than vanilla.

That's your opinion, and one you're perfectly entitled to hold.

I initially thought you had put this thread up in order to have an open discussion on the merits and demerits of Reshade, and whether developers should use it as standard. It now seems increasingly clear that you won't accept any contrary opinions from posters whose faulty settings are in your view responsible for them not seeing Reshade as clearly better than vanilla.

I'm not talking about the merits and demerits of Reshade, I'm trying to discuss the default settings for the game, and why they look foggy and muddy, and why other games do as well. I'm including Reshade in the discussion because the reason it is frequently used is as a way of fixing this. I don't know if anyone that has replied has actually addressed that point, and instead try to provide other ways of addressing it, such as with GPU or monitor settings. That's not the point. The point is the game itself, and why the default settings are the way that they are.

Because those are an artistic choice that the developers, and many players, prefer. Obviously this in no way invalidates your preference for a different artistic choice, and many other players with you. Equally, the fact that you and many others prefer the style or ReShade does not invalidate the preference of those who dislike that style.

Hopefully this is not your intention, but to my impression, the way you keep phrasing your arguments in this thread do leave the impression that you are attempting to deny the default style of the game as a valid artistic preference. Your choice of words come across as 'because ReShade is popular, you are weird if you do not prefer the ReShade style over the default style'.

I don't consider it to be an artistic choice at all. I consider it to be graphics settings and tech which don't do the game, which does contain art, justice. I guess I can't expect players who like things the way they are, whether it's because they're used to something and don't like change or not, to appreciate that it can be better, but I'm using ESO as the prime example of something that is happening in other games as well. For whatever reason, studios are flattening out their color balance and choosing to blandify the experience when it seems really unnecessary and counterproductive to do so.

For me it's not about what I'm used to. It's about the reshaded versions being irritating to my eyes. The boundaries are too crips, the coloring is too jarring and dark. I feel that my eyes would tire after looking at this for prolonged periods of time. So, it's definitely not better for me even if it is for you.

Then let me ask you this: do you think vanilla ESO could possibly look better if it had a higher dynamic range and color values that suited your eyes, or do you think ESO looks absolutely perfect? If you don't like my settings, that's fine, but I'm trying to present the fact that ESO, and many other games, have color values that are too flat and too bland.

spartaxoxo · December 5

I don't think ESO's colors are too bland. That's subjective. It's nice options exists for those that like them.

ESO_player123 · December 5

disky wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

disky wrote: »

JeroenB wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Guys, I fully agree that monitors and GPU settings vary, and you may not agree with my Reshade configuration, but even after viewing this on multiple monitors and my phone, I think they still look much better than the default, which presents a grey fog and muddier textures no matter what. Adjust contrasts per your preference and it's clearly better than vanilla.

That's your opinion, and one you're perfectly entitled to hold.

I initially thought you had put this thread up in order to have an open discussion on the merits and demerits of Reshade, and whether developers should use it as standard. It now seems increasingly clear that you won't accept any contrary opinions from posters whose faulty settings are in your view responsible for them not seeing Reshade as clearly better than vanilla.

I'm not talking about the merits and demerits of Reshade, I'm trying to discuss the default settings for the game, and why they look foggy and muddy, and why other games do as well. I'm including Reshade in the discussion because the reason it is frequently used is as a way of fixing this. I don't know if anyone that has replied has actually addressed that point, and instead try to provide other ways of addressing it, such as with GPU or monitor settings. That's not the point. The point is the game itself, and why the default settings are the way that they are.

Because those are an artistic choice that the developers, and many players, prefer. Obviously this in no way invalidates your preference for a different artistic choice, and many other players with you. Equally, the fact that you and many others prefer the style or ReShade does not invalidate the preference of those who dislike that style.

Hopefully this is not your intention, but to my impression, the way you keep phrasing your arguments in this thread do leave the impression that you are attempting to deny the default style of the game as a valid artistic preference. Your choice of words come across as 'because ReShade is popular, you are weird if you do not prefer the ReShade style over the default style'.

I don't consider it to be an artistic choice at all. I consider it to be graphics settings and tech which don't do the game, which does contain art, justice. I guess I can't expect players who like things the way they are, whether it's because they're used to something and don't like change or not, to appreciate that it can be better, but I'm using ESO as the prime example of something that is happening in other games as well. For whatever reason, studios are flattening out their color balance and choosing to blandify the experience when it seems really unnecessary and counterproductive to do so.

For me it's not about what I'm used to. It's about the reshaded versions being irritating to my eyes. The boundaries are too crips, the coloring is too jarring and dark. I feel that my eyes would tire after looking at this for prolonged periods of time. So, it's definitely not better for me even if it is for you.

Then let me ask you this: do you think vanilla ESO could possibly look better if it had a higher dynamic range and color values that suited your eyes, or do you think ESO looks absolutely perfect? If you don't like my settings, that's fine, but I'm trying to present the fact that ESO, and many other games, have color values that are too flat and too bland.

I have no idea. I would need to look at the examples of how it would look like. As I'm playing, my eyes are not tired by the current ESO graphics and I actually like them (except for the West Weald colors and the flash bang of the Apex mounts).

JeroenB · December 5

disky wrote: »

JeroenB wrote: »

disky wrote: »

JeroenB wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Guys, I fully agree that monitors and GPU settings vary, and you may not agree with my Reshade configuration, but even after viewing this on multiple monitors and my phone, I think they still look much better than the default, which presents a grey fog and muddier textures no matter what. Adjust contrasts per your preference and it's clearly better than vanilla.

That's your opinion, and one you're perfectly entitled to hold.

I initially thought you had put this thread up in order to have an open discussion on the merits and demerits of Reshade, and whether developers should use it as standard. It now seems increasingly clear that you won't accept any contrary opinions from posters whose faulty settings are in your view responsible for them not seeing Reshade as clearly better than vanilla.

I'm not talking about the merits and demerits of Reshade, I'm trying to discuss the default settings for the game, and why they look foggy and muddy, and why other games do as well. I'm including Reshade in the discussion because the reason it is frequently used is as a way of fixing this. I don't know if anyone that has replied has actually addressed that point, and instead try to provide other ways of addressing it, such as with GPU or monitor settings. That's not the point. The point is the game itself, and why the default settings are the way that they are.

Because those are an artistic choice that the developers, and many players, prefer. Obviously this in no way invalidates your preference for a different artistic choice, and many other players with you. Equally, the fact that you and many others prefer the style or ReShade does not invalidate the preference of those who dislike that style.

Hopefully this is not your intention, but to my impression, the way you keep phrasing your arguments in this thread do leave the impression that you are attempting to deny the default style of the game as a valid artistic preference. Your choice of words come across as 'because ReShade is popular, you are weird if you do not prefer the ReShade style over the default style'.

I don't consider it to be an artistic choice at all. I consider it to be graphics settings and tech which don't do the game, which does contain art, justice. I guess I can't expect players who like things the way they are, whether it's because they're used to something and don't like change or not, to appreciate that it can be better, but I'm using ESO as the prime example of something that is happening in other games as well. For whatever reason, studios are flattening out their color balance and choosing to blandify the experience when it seems really unnecessary and counterproductive to do so.

It would appear that your response is to deny outright the validity of other people having a preference for visual appearances different than your own. You state yet again that your personal preference is objectively better than the default game, and essentially state ("I guess I can't expect ...") that there is something 'wrong' with everyone in this thread who has expressed a preference for the default game screenshots.

disky wrote: »

Sluggy wrote: »

disky wrote: »

I don't consider it to be an artistic choice at all. I consider it to be graphics settings and tech which don't do the game, which does contain art, justice. I guess I can't expect players who like things the way they are, whether it's because they're used to something and don't like change or not, to appreciate that it can be better, but I'm using ESO as the prime example of something that is happening in other games as well. For whatever reason, studios are flattening out their color balance and choosing to blandify the experience when it seems really unnecessary and counterproductive to do so.

Whether or not you like it doesn't decide if it's an artistic choice or not. It is still a choice that has artistic merit.

I think it's a game development/presentation choice. The art was done before it hit the player's screen. It's like taking the Mona Lisa and putting it behind foggy glass.

The scope of the word "art" is unreasonably limited as you use it here. How a museum creator chooses to display a given artwork is itself in part an artistic choice. Just because you do not like an artistic expression does not stop it being an artistic expression.

Well, you're free to enjoy foggy blandness I suppose. There was a period when just about every game had what appeared to be a urine-colored tint that covered everything, which we tolerated back then in the name of "realism" and nowadays most people consider to be hideous, so maybe one day your mind will change about this as well.

My point is not at all about which visual representation is 'better'. It is about your repeated expressions that such a comparison is objective rather than subjective, and that everyone who disagrees with your preference not only has a 'wrong' opinion, but are themselves as people somehow 'deficient' for not sharing your preference. Clearly we have a fundamentally different world view, and I shall just withdraw from this thread.

disky · December 5

JeroenB wrote: »

disky wrote: »

JeroenB wrote: »

disky wrote: »

JeroenB wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Guys, I fully agree that monitors and GPU settings vary, and you may not agree with my Reshade configuration, but even after viewing this on multiple monitors and my phone, I think they still look much better than the default, which presents a grey fog and muddier textures no matter what. Adjust contrasts per your preference and it's clearly better than vanilla.

That's your opinion, and one you're perfectly entitled to hold.

I initially thought you had put this thread up in order to have an open discussion on the merits and demerits of Reshade, and whether developers should use it as standard. It now seems increasingly clear that you won't accept any contrary opinions from posters whose faulty settings are in your view responsible for them not seeing Reshade as clearly better than vanilla.

I'm not talking about the merits and demerits of Reshade, I'm trying to discuss the default settings for the game, and why they look foggy and muddy, and why other games do as well. I'm including Reshade in the discussion because the reason it is frequently used is as a way of fixing this. I don't know if anyone that has replied has actually addressed that point, and instead try to provide other ways of addressing it, such as with GPU or monitor settings. That's not the point. The point is the game itself, and why the default settings are the way that they are.

Because those are an artistic choice that the developers, and many players, prefer. Obviously this in no way invalidates your preference for a different artistic choice, and many other players with you. Equally, the fact that you and many others prefer the style or ReShade does not invalidate the preference of those who dislike that style.

Hopefully this is not your intention, but to my impression, the way you keep phrasing your arguments in this thread do leave the impression that you are attempting to deny the default style of the game as a valid artistic preference. Your choice of words come across as 'because ReShade is popular, you are weird if you do not prefer the ReShade style over the default style'.

I don't consider it to be an artistic choice at all. I consider it to be graphics settings and tech which don't do the game, which does contain art, justice. I guess I can't expect players who like things the way they are, whether it's because they're used to something and don't like change or not, to appreciate that it can be better, but I'm using ESO as the prime example of something that is happening in other games as well. For whatever reason, studios are flattening out their color balance and choosing to blandify the experience when it seems really unnecessary and counterproductive to do so.

It would appear that your response is to deny outright the validity of other people having a preference for visual appearances different than your own. You state yet again that your personal preference is objectively better than the default game, and essentially state ("I guess I can't expect ...") that there is something 'wrong' with everyone in this thread who has expressed a preference for the default game screenshots.

disky wrote: »

Sluggy wrote: »

disky wrote: »

I don't consider it to be an artistic choice at all. I consider it to be graphics settings and tech which don't do the game, which does contain art, justice. I guess I can't expect players who like things the way they are, whether it's because they're used to something and don't like change or not, to appreciate that it can be better, but I'm using ESO as the prime example of something that is happening in other games as well. For whatever reason, studios are flattening out their color balance and choosing to blandify the experience when it seems really unnecessary and counterproductive to do so.

Whether or not you like it doesn't decide if it's an artistic choice or not. It is still a choice that has artistic merit.

I think it's a game development/presentation choice. The art was done before it hit the player's screen. It's like taking the Mona Lisa and putting it behind foggy glass.

The scope of the word "art" is unreasonably limited as you use it here. How a museum creator chooses to display a given artwork is itself in part an artistic choice. Just because you do not like an artistic expression does not stop it being an artistic expression.

Well, you're free to enjoy foggy blandness I suppose. There was a period when just about every game had what appeared to be a urine-colored tint that covered everything, which we tolerated back then in the name of "realism" and nowadays most people consider to be hideous, so maybe one day your mind will change about this as well.

My point is not at all about which visual representation is 'better'. It is about your repeated expressions that such a comparison is objective rather than subjective, and that everyone who disagrees with your preference not only has a 'wrong' opinion, but are themselves as people somehow 'deficient' for not sharing your preference. Clearly we have a fundamentally different world view, and I shall just withdraw from this thread.

Bye.

disky · December 5

ESO_player123 wrote: »

disky wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

disky wrote: »

JeroenB wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Guys, I fully agree that monitors and GPU settings vary, and you may not agree with my Reshade configuration, but even after viewing this on multiple monitors and my phone, I think they still look much better than the default, which presents a grey fog and muddier textures no matter what. Adjust contrasts per your preference and it's clearly better than vanilla.

That's your opinion, and one you're perfectly entitled to hold.

I initially thought you had put this thread up in order to have an open discussion on the merits and demerits of Reshade, and whether developers should use it as standard. It now seems increasingly clear that you won't accept any contrary opinions from posters whose faulty settings are in your view responsible for them not seeing Reshade as clearly better than vanilla.

I'm not talking about the merits and demerits of Reshade, I'm trying to discuss the default settings for the game, and why they look foggy and muddy, and why other games do as well. I'm including Reshade in the discussion because the reason it is frequently used is as a way of fixing this. I don't know if anyone that has replied has actually addressed that point, and instead try to provide other ways of addressing it, such as with GPU or monitor settings. That's not the point. The point is the game itself, and why the default settings are the way that they are.

Because those are an artistic choice that the developers, and many players, prefer. Obviously this in no way invalidates your preference for a different artistic choice, and many other players with you. Equally, the fact that you and many others prefer the style or ReShade does not invalidate the preference of those who dislike that style.

Hopefully this is not your intention, but to my impression, the way you keep phrasing your arguments in this thread do leave the impression that you are attempting to deny the default style of the game as a valid artistic preference. Your choice of words come across as 'because ReShade is popular, you are weird if you do not prefer the ReShade style over the default style'.

I don't consider it to be an artistic choice at all. I consider it to be graphics settings and tech which don't do the game, which does contain art, justice. I guess I can't expect players who like things the way they are, whether it's because they're used to something and don't like change or not, to appreciate that it can be better, but I'm using ESO as the prime example of something that is happening in other games as well. For whatever reason, studios are flattening out their color balance and choosing to blandify the experience when it seems really unnecessary and counterproductive to do so.

For me it's not about what I'm used to. It's about the reshaded versions being irritating to my eyes. The boundaries are too crips, the coloring is too jarring and dark. I feel that my eyes would tire after looking at this for prolonged periods of time. So, it's definitely not better for me even if it is for you.

Then let me ask you this: do you think vanilla ESO could possibly look better if it had a higher dynamic range and color values that suited your eyes, or do you think ESO looks absolutely perfect? If you don't like my settings, that's fine, but I'm trying to present the fact that ESO, and many other games, have color values that are too flat and too bland.

I have no idea. I would need to look at the examples of how it would look like. As I'm playing, my eyes are not tired by the current ESO graphics and I actually like them (except for the West Weald colors and the flash bang of the Apex mounts).

I agree that the apex mounts are garish and irritating.

Within Reshade you can adjust things pretty wildly in terms of color balance if you so choose, but I haven't actually touched that at all. All I sought to do was remove the apparent color flatness with higher dynamic range, add a bit of sharpening and AA on top of that, and I also used a light touch on a bumpmapping filter which gives an additional level of depth to the textures, creating more detail for their relatively low resolutions. In contrast, it looks like Soarora did adjust the color balance a little bit, if you wish to compare.

scrappy1342 · December 5

if you read through the responses, you'll see that many ppl like it just the way it is. thankfully there are things like reshade for ppl who like it other ways.

disky wrote: »

I've played around with those settings you mentioned and the game does absolutely still have a "fog filter" on top of everything. ESO is not the only culprit, of course.

but even after viewing this on multiple monitors and my phone, I think they still look much better than the default, which presents a grey fog and muddier textures no matter what.

It's like taking the Mona Lisa and putting it behind foggy glass.

Well, you're free to enjoy foggy blandness I suppose.

are you sure you don't need glasses?

ESO_player123 · December 5

disky wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

disky wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

disky wrote: »

JeroenB wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Guys, I fully agree that monitors and GPU settings vary, and you may not agree with my Reshade configuration, but even after viewing this on multiple monitors and my phone, I think they still look much better than the default, which presents a grey fog and muddier textures no matter what. Adjust contrasts per your preference and it's clearly better than vanilla.

That's your opinion, and one you're perfectly entitled to hold.

I initially thought you had put this thread up in order to have an open discussion on the merits and demerits of Reshade, and whether developers should use it as standard. It now seems increasingly clear that you won't accept any contrary opinions from posters whose faulty settings are in your view responsible for them not seeing Reshade as clearly better than vanilla.

I'm not talking about the merits and demerits of Reshade, I'm trying to discuss the default settings for the game, and why they look foggy and muddy, and why other games do as well. I'm including Reshade in the discussion because the reason it is frequently used is as a way of fixing this. I don't know if anyone that has replied has actually addressed that point, and instead try to provide other ways of addressing it, such as with GPU or monitor settings. That's not the point. The point is the game itself, and why the default settings are the way that they are.

Because those are an artistic choice that the developers, and many players, prefer. Obviously this in no way invalidates your preference for a different artistic choice, and many other players with you. Equally, the fact that you and many others prefer the style or ReShade does not invalidate the preference of those who dislike that style.

Hopefully this is not your intention, but to my impression, the way you keep phrasing your arguments in this thread do leave the impression that you are attempting to deny the default style of the game as a valid artistic preference. Your choice of words come across as 'because ReShade is popular, you are weird if you do not prefer the ReShade style over the default style'.

I don't consider it to be an artistic choice at all. I consider it to be graphics settings and tech which don't do the game, which does contain art, justice. I guess I can't expect players who like things the way they are, whether it's because they're used to something and don't like change or not, to appreciate that it can be better, but I'm using ESO as the prime example of something that is happening in other games as well. For whatever reason, studios are flattening out their color balance and choosing to blandify the experience when it seems really unnecessary and counterproductive to do so.

For me it's not about what I'm used to. It's about the reshaded versions being irritating to my eyes. The boundaries are too crips, the coloring is too jarring and dark. I feel that my eyes would tire after looking at this for prolonged periods of time. So, it's definitely not better for me even if it is for you.

Then let me ask you this: do you think vanilla ESO could possibly look better if it had a higher dynamic range and color values that suited your eyes, or do you think ESO looks absolutely perfect? If you don't like my settings, that's fine, but I'm trying to present the fact that ESO, and many other games, have color values that are too flat and too bland.

I have no idea. I would need to look at the examples of how it would look like. As I'm playing, my eyes are not tired by the current ESO graphics and I actually like them (except for the West Weald colors and the flash bang of the Apex mounts).

I agree that the apex mounts are garish and irritating.

Within Reshade you can adjust things pretty wildly in terms of color balance if you so choose, but I haven't actually touched that at all. All I sought to do was remove the apparent color flatness with higher dynamic range, add a bit of sharpening and AA on top of that, and I also used a light touch on a bumpmapping filter which gives an additional level of depth to the textures, creating more detail for their relatively low resolutions. In contrast, it looks like Soarora did adjust the color balance a little bit, if you wish to compare.

Regarding Soarora's reshaded screenshots:
Vivek City looks nice. Glenumbra(?) and Skingrad are too dark, and the Shadowfen is way too sharp for me (I actually squinted my eyes a bit when I got the first look of that screenshot).

disky · December 5

scrappy1342 wrote: »

if you read through the responses, you'll see that many ppl like it just the way it is. thankfully there are things like reshade for ppl who like it other ways.

disky wrote: »

I've played around with those settings you mentioned and the game does absolutely still have a "fog filter" on top of everything. ESO is not the only culprit, of course.

but even after viewing this on multiple monitors and my phone, I think they still look much better than the default, which presents a grey fog and muddier textures no matter what.

It's like taking the Mona Lisa and putting it behind foggy glass.

Well, you're free to enjoy foggy blandness I suppose.

are you sure you don't need glasses?

I'm far from the only person to ever bring this up about ESO or games in general. It's not about the ability to see things, it's about the flatness of the colors presented, which creates a fog effect.

Soarora · December 5

ESO_player123 wrote: »

disky wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

disky wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

disky wrote: »

JeroenB wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Guys, I fully agree that monitors and GPU settings vary, and you may not agree with my Reshade configuration, but even after viewing this on multiple monitors and my phone, I think they still look much better than the default, which presents a grey fog and muddier textures no matter what. Adjust contrasts per your preference and it's clearly better than vanilla.

That's your opinion, and one you're perfectly entitled to hold.

I initially thought you had put this thread up in order to have an open discussion on the merits and demerits of Reshade, and whether developers should use it as standard. It now seems increasingly clear that you won't accept any contrary opinions from posters whose faulty settings are in your view responsible for them not seeing Reshade as clearly better than vanilla.

I'm not talking about the merits and demerits of Reshade, I'm trying to discuss the default settings for the game, and why they look foggy and muddy, and why other games do as well. I'm including Reshade in the discussion because the reason it is frequently used is as a way of fixing this. I don't know if anyone that has replied has actually addressed that point, and instead try to provide other ways of addressing it, such as with GPU or monitor settings. That's not the point. The point is the game itself, and why the default settings are the way that they are.

Because those are an artistic choice that the developers, and many players, prefer. Obviously this in no way invalidates your preference for a different artistic choice, and many other players with you. Equally, the fact that you and many others prefer the style or ReShade does not invalidate the preference of those who dislike that style.

Hopefully this is not your intention, but to my impression, the way you keep phrasing your arguments in this thread do leave the impression that you are attempting to deny the default style of the game as a valid artistic preference. Your choice of words come across as 'because ReShade is popular, you are weird if you do not prefer the ReShade style over the default style'.

I don't consider it to be an artistic choice at all. I consider it to be graphics settings and tech which don't do the game, which does contain art, justice. I guess I can't expect players who like things the way they are, whether it's because they're used to something and don't like change or not, to appreciate that it can be better, but I'm using ESO as the prime example of something that is happening in other games as well. For whatever reason, studios are flattening out their color balance and choosing to blandify the experience when it seems really unnecessary and counterproductive to do so.

For me it's not about what I'm used to. It's about the reshaded versions being irritating to my eyes. The boundaries are too crips, the coloring is too jarring and dark. I feel that my eyes would tire after looking at this for prolonged periods of time. So, it's definitely not better for me even if it is for you.

Then let me ask you this: do you think vanilla ESO could possibly look better if it had a higher dynamic range and color values that suited your eyes, or do you think ESO looks absolutely perfect? If you don't like my settings, that's fine, but I'm trying to present the fact that ESO, and many other games, have color values that are too flat and too bland.

I have no idea. I would need to look at the examples of how it would look like. As I'm playing, my eyes are not tired by the current ESO graphics and I actually like them (except for the West Weald colors and the flash bang of the Apex mounts).

I agree that the apex mounts are garish and irritating.

Within Reshade you can adjust things pretty wildly in terms of color balance if you so choose, but I haven't actually touched that at all. All I sought to do was remove the apparent color flatness with higher dynamic range, add a bit of sharpening and AA on top of that, and I also used a light touch on a bumpmapping filter which gives an additional level of depth to the textures, creating more detail for their relatively low resolutions. In contrast, it looks like Soarora did adjust the color balance a little bit, if you wish to compare.

Regarding Soarora's reshaded screenshots:
Vivek City looks nice. Glenumbra(?) and Skingrad are too dark, and the Shadowfen is way too sharp for me (I actually squinted my eyes a bit when I got the first look of that screenshot).

The sharpness is probably because my setup has both a blur and a sharpen. Sometimes I prefer not having the sharpen on but that I figured the comfort I get in the blur is a me thing (I wear glasses, so a little bit of blur in real life is normal for me) so I left the sharpen on. I agree, it makes Skingrad look too dark. The newer zones have better lighting— golden hour in the west weald still turns everything gold for me. I wish there was a saturation slider, I guess. (Coming from someone who hates highly saturated reshades for Skyrim lol.)

Tandor · December 5

If the OP is so convinced that Reshade is clearly superior to the default graphics in games like ESO then perhaps he should open a simple poll, free of bias in the description and options, asking the basic question "Do you use Reshade for ESO, yes or no?"

disky · December 5

Tandor wrote: »

If the OP is so convinced that Reshade is clearly superior to the default graphics in games like ESO then perhaps he should open a simple poll, free of bias in the description and options, asking the basic question "Do you use Reshade for ESO, yes or no?"

That wouldn't solve anything. A lot of people don't even know what it is or how to use it. And again, it's not the point of this post.

Radiate77 · December 5

Tandor wrote: »

If the OP is so convinced that Reshade is clearly superior to the default graphics in games like ESO then perhaps he should open a simple poll, free of bias in the description and options, asking the basic question "Do you use Reshade for ESO, yes or no?"

I would prefer if we had no idea which was the Reshade, and have an Option 1 or 2, and we had to vote on the best looking picture.

People would be surprised by the results, depending on the area that is reshaded.

tomofhyrule · December 5

But as a lot of people have mentioned, "better" is purely subjective.

I don't use a Reshade for my game, but I think it looks glorious. But that may be because of my simple preferences: when I first set up any game, I generally have the gamma cranked way down - I take that "make the white logo just barely visible" very seriously. As such, my game tends a lot darker than others'. I've seen other people (generally streamers who try to show off the game so don't want it dark) who have their gamma set so high it makes the whole game look washed out.

I feel that even just setting gamma low just makes the contrast better and makes the game look a lot more intense.

That's the only 'mod' I use for graphics, along with several important screenshot addons (ScreenshotHelper, LovelyEmotes, UnlimitedCameraZoom)

Examples below:

Sluggy · December 5

tomofhyrule wrote: »

But as a lot of people have mentioned, "better" is purely subjective.

I don't use a Reshade for my game, but I think it looks glorious. But that may be because of my simple preferences: when I first set up any game, I generally have the gamma cranked way down - I take that "make the white logo just barely visible" very seriously. As such, my game tends a lot darker than others'. I've seen other people (generally streamers who try to show off the game so don't want it dark) who have their gamma set so high it makes the whole game look washed out.

I feel that even just setting gamma low just makes the contrast better and makes the game look a lot more intense.

That's the only 'mod' I use for graphics, along with several important screenshot addons (ScreenshotHelper, LovelyEmotes, UnlimitedCameraZoom)

Examples below:

And this steps into that other crucial part of the process - the local color reproduction. Different monitors, different drivers, different configurations, and hell, even the lighting in the room all affect the final outcome. That gamma bar is meant to be taken seriously. And if you've ever had to work in print when working with digitally produced media, you'll know the intensity of calibrating your monitor and even the lights used in the previewing room.