Hot take: Dragon Knight class in itself is not lore friendly

Anilahation · December 5

The class should properly display the powers that dragons wield.

For example, the devs claim the DK source of power is "dragon-powered warriors who wield flame and fury with eruptive power, shielding their allies and themselves with earthen forces."

The Dragons in the Elder Scrolls are FIRE And FROST. The Dragon Knight class should represent this Similar to the character Todoroki from My Hero Academia. Even the Dragon Priest you fight in Skyrim use frost or fire magic according to their respective dragon.

The Dragon Knight should get 3 new skill lines if the devs are really interested in tackling class fantasy.

Ardent Flame
Draconic Power
FROZEN heart

The earth spells never made any sense for The Elder Scrolls Dragon Knight and frost spells even make more sense with the "least" mobile class in the game which is known for its sticking power and snares.

"earth" spells should be given to the Warden since it is the rework following.

spartaxoxo · December 5

Shouldn't even be called earth, really

Morvan · December 5

Well, they don't necessarily need to have frost magic, Dragonknights are tied to the old Akaviri, the Tsaesci in specific, they came to Tamriel and taught this martial tradition to their followers.

With the few lore I've read from them it seems it's more like using magic to mimic a dragon, than anything actually tied directly to dragons, as the Akaviri learned hunting and studying them, DKs are not like a Dragonborn or anything.

Bear in mind that ALL the Dragonknights we have in Tamriel only exist due to a single Former Dragonguard member who made sure this martial art would be carried on through generations in Tamriel:

So with that in mind, it's very possible that in their mainland of Akavir there are more diverse Dragonknights, maybe some can use Frost or Shock magic, and we only have what we have in Tamriel because that's what survived history.

Anilahation · December 5

Morvan wrote: »

With the few lore I've read from them it seems it's more like using magic to mimic a dragon, than anything actually tied directly to dragons, as the Akaviri learned hunting and studying them, DKs are not like a Dragonborn or anything.

that's kind of the point though, they larned the magic mimicing dragons and used it to fight them... just seems strange that they only learned fire spells or the fact they learned "earthen" spells at all.

Morvan · December 5

Anilahation wrote: »

Morvan wrote: »

With the few lore I've read from them it seems it's more like using magic to mimic a dragon, than anything actually tied directly to dragons, as the Akaviri learned hunting and studying them, DKs are not like a Dragonborn or anything.

that's kind of the point though, they larned the magic mimicing dragons and used it to fight them... just seems strange that they only learned fire spells or the fact they learned "earthen" spells at all.

Well, like I said, all DKs only exist because of this one guy known as "the Grandmaster", maybe he was just specialized in flame magic? Maybe there were other Akaviri specialized in other elements but they just didn't ever pass on their knowledge, it's like a nearly lost tradition.

Smitch_59 · December 5

It's always been my least favorite class, for some reason.

Danikat · December 5

I wouldn't complain if they swapped the themes round so dragon knights can use frost magic and wardens use earth magic. Although they'd probably need to redesign all the skills to make that work.

But I don't think it's a lore problem. You said yourself dragon priests use fire OR frost magic, depending on their dragon and as many people have pointed out dragon Knights developed from the teachings of 1 individual, so maybe he didn't know Frost magic.

It's also entirely possible Akaviri dragons are different to ones found in Tamriel, just like the people are different, and they have unique abilities.

Renato90085 · December 5

they say dk have a new passive name is Avalanche,I didn't understand why at first
Until I read this post

Ermiq · December 5

Don't really care about DK, but the moment you mentioned Warden I said "hell yeah". From the very beginning the Frost line seemed like nonsense for Warden. Druid-kind who specializes in the nature of life and growth suddenly uses the element that is the opposite of life and growth. And the Earth magic would be the excellent swap.

Jagar_Tharn92 · December 5

Totally agree with OP, unfortunately I think it will not happen in the near future cause they already started the reworking of the class and even if the term avalanche would have been perfect for frost themed passive, I suppose they mean and avalanche of rocks.

I also don't understand why they get rid of the Akaviri style background in the new description of the class, but maybe they will add it later on.

Vaqual · December 5

Earthen Heart is a nice summary for a warrior with a heart of stone, at home in mountainous dwellings like the dragons of legend. In my eyes it fits the class very well, albeit that I dislike how most of the skill line is positioned currently in terms of combat balance and I am not exactly a fan of most ability designs.
It is a facet of DK that doesn't necessarily align with everyones view of the class fantasy, just how I find that Assassination doesn't belong to my version of NB, or many claim that they don't like Summoning on their Sorc. These are just aspects that a player can embrace or replace via subclassing, and I feel the devs want to offer these options for exactly this reason.

Vulkunne · December 5

Lore friendly or not, DK is very original. Which if you think about how hard it is to make an original idea that's so cool and successful, yet so different from what people might originally ask for, DK is an amazing success story.

Anilahation · December 5

Vaqual wrote: »

Earthen Heart is a nice summary for a warrior with a heart of stone, at home in mountainous dwellings like the dragons of legend. In my eyes it fits the class very well, albeit that I dislike how most of the skill line is positioned currently in terms of combat balance and I am not exactly a fan of most ability designs.
It is a facet of DK that doesn't necessarily align with everyones view of the class fantasy, just how I find that Assassination doesn't belong to my version of NB, or many claim that they don't like Summoning on their Sorc. These are just aspects that a player can embrace or replace via subclassing, and I feel the devs want to offer these options for exactly this reason.

Dragons using fire or frost really fits with their theme because some mountains are volcano and others are frosty peaks.

The warden class having animals, nature and then randomly frost made little sense, it is supposed to be the closet thing to druid in eso. It should be given earth spells instead and dragon knight should be given frost spells. Remove the poison skills, give it frost or fire breath.

The least mobile class in the game having frost for sticking power just fits thematically

Honestly what really made me think of this was the Wyvern form shown in poe2 for their druid class. Druid are known for using the elements and what animal is best known for also using the primal elements. Dragons

Morvan wrote: »

Anilahation wrote: »

Morvan wrote: »

With the few lore I've read from them it seems it's more like using magic to mimic a dragon, than anything actually tied directly to dragons, as the Akaviri learned hunting and studying them, DKs are not like a Dragonborn or anything.

that's kind of the point though, they larned the magic mimicing dragons and used it to fight them... just seems strange that they only learned fire spells or the fact they learned "earthen" spells at all.

Well, like I said, all DKs only exist because of this one guy known as "the Grandmaster", maybe he was just specialized in flame magic? Maybe there were other Akaviri specialized in other elements but they just didn't ever pass on their knowledge, it's like a nearly lost tradition.

Even in all the books in game it constantly says "the power of dragons" we could argue that the grandmaster only specialized in fire but we've literally seen zero evidence of dragons using poison or earth spells at all. It just doesn't make sense

BardokRedSnow · December 5

It does seem to have more in common with Elden Ring dragon powers than tes, and it’s why I had to do a lot of headcanoning to make it make sense originally.

Would have gone better if only the vestige had these powers, not every guard lol.

Will just have to accept that second era magics before the eventual breaking of the time dragon in the events of tes II daggerfall and the Warp in the West was just very different. That or Akaviri magic clearly is vastly different, and also dies out in Tamriel before the third era which also makes sense. Column A Column B.

I would have on one hand preferred if it were the thu’um they were using but on the other hand I don’t wanna see khajiit and elves etc using the Nord’s famous tongue abilities regardless of the weak excuses Skyrim came up with so you can be a cat Dragonborn for the first time in history. Amulet of Kings Dragonborn vs naturally born, different rules. Even ESO alluded to that in the very beginning.

Anyway yea Dragon Knight is my favorite class but obviously was meant to appeal to people outside the series more. Chain pull is not a thing in elder scrolls and that alone makes no sense.

wolfie1.0. · December 5

I know its off topic, but its related.

Why do wardens have frost and a bear?

Most of their animal companions are vvardenfell based yet they have a bear ultimate... an animal that isnt native to the island and doesnt exist in the zone. Same goes for the frost element.

As for the seasons concept... well I would believe that, but some seasons are more over represented and one at least is missing.

I dont know, to me it seems like in all classes one or more entire skill lines are fully missing in order for them to actually be what zos wants the power fantasy concept to be.

Speaking of which... why are we only limited to 3 class skill lines anyway?

Anilahation · December 5

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

I know its off topic, but its related.

Why do wardens have frost and a bear?

Most of their animal companions are vvardenfell based yet they have a bear ultimate... an animal that isnt native to the island and doesnt exist in the zone. Same goes for the frost element.

As for the seasons concept... well I would believe that, but some seasons are more over represented and one at least is missing.

I dont know, to me it seems like in all classes one or more entire skill lines are fully missing in order for them to actually be what zos wants the power fantasy concept to be.

Speaking of which... why are we only limited to 3 class skill lines anyway?

I think warden should be disconnected from vvardenfell and be more related to the wood elves.

It was dumb to make a nature class focused around the dark elves in the first place

BardokRedSnow · December 5

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

I know its off topic, but its related.

Why do wardens have frost and a bear?

Most of their animal companions are vvardenfell based yet they have a bear ultimate... an animal that isnt native to the island and doesnt exist in the zone. Same goes for the frost element.

As for the seasons concept... well I would believe that, but some seasons are more over represented and one at least is missing.

I dont know, to me it seems like in all classes one or more entire skill lines are fully missing in order for them to actually be what zos wants the power fantasy concept to be.

Speaking of which... why are we only limited to 3 class skill lines anyway?

For simplicity sake I am sure.

Warden felt like a mesh between elemental Nords like in Bloodmoon, and bosmeri magics. It would have been nice to have a "nord magics" class that is basically an ice DK in practice, and have bosmers be wardens and do their own thing. Give the "nord class" a bear, give bosmer something more in line with the wild hunt. Like Udyrfrykte.

They were I guess trying to make it appeal to more than just bosmer with that ice line and also be unique, and it is, but this would have been more satisfying in the end.

I do feel like subclassing helps with this problem though to an extent.

Anilahation · December 5

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Warden felt like a mesh between elemental Nords like in Bloodmoon, and bosmeri magics. It would have been nice to have a "nord magics" class that is basically an ice DK in practice, and have bosmers be wardens and do their own thing. Give the "nord class" a bear, give bosmer something more in line with the wild hunt. Like Udyrfrykte.

Yeah the bear, the frost spells, the random vvardenfell animals and then mushrooms.

Warden fantasy really needs to double down on being the nature focused class instead of this nonsense about " the seasons" and only having frost.

Give frost to dragon knights since dragons literally use frost and fire magic

mdjessup4906 · December 5

At this point in time, (before elseweir) no one has seen a dragon foe 1000s of years. Theres a lorebook that speculates that dk dragonnes is purely aesthetics, and thats my take. Some dragon fan who happened to also be martial arts master and mage invented the clas based on old stories and it just took off.