Maintenance for the week of December 8:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – December 8
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – December 8
While we're discussing class reworks....
BXR_Lonestar
✭✭✭✭✭
✭
✭
While it seems like big changes are on the horizon with respect to the classes, the time is now to discuss how the classes are balanced against eachother in a PVP environment. I know the previous combat team strove for what I term 1-to-1 balancing, meaning that similar abilities all had similar performance, such that there was really not a huge difference other than visuals between - say one DoT ability versus another. That kind of balancing, IMO, has no place in an MMO, where each class has a "niche" that they do well and that fits into a certain playstyle.
If the class rework is going to break the existing rules of 1-to-1 balancing and similar abilities are going to perform differently, then balancing the PVP environments is going to become a nightmare, unless we embrace something akin to a rock-paper-scissors style of balancing, where one class enjoys advantages over another class, and has disadvantages against other classes. What this would do is it would make it so that there is no dominant "meta" so to speak because it can be easily countered by playing a class that is a good counter to the "meta" class so to speak.
We don't have the full picture of what each class is going to bring to the table, so we don't have a lot to go on in terms of this discussion, but I do think it is appropriate to begin a base-level conversation regarding the philosophy of how the classes should be balanced against eachother when you are fighting other players.
IMO, what I would like to see is damage bonuses and reduction to damage resistances to certain classes.
Example: A Templar should have, say an innate 10% damage bonus to necromancers when Battle Spirit is active, and take an extra 10% damage from, say Nightblades.
No Rhyme or reason for the class choices referenced, I'm just throwing that out there as a hypothetical example of how this could work. The idea here is to reinforce that there should be no dominant class - each class is going to have a favored opponent and an opponent they are innately vulnerable to. Not a huge advantage/disadvantage, but enough to tip the balance in close fights. The advantages/disadvantages could be implemented based on each class' lore and power theme as they're discussing.
Just my thoughts
If the class rework is going to break the existing rules of 1-to-1 balancing and similar abilities are going to perform differently, then balancing the PVP environments is going to become a nightmare, unless we embrace something akin to a rock-paper-scissors style of balancing, where one class enjoys advantages over another class, and has disadvantages against other classes. What this would do is it would make it so that there is no dominant "meta" so to speak because it can be easily countered by playing a class that is a good counter to the "meta" class so to speak.
We don't have the full picture of what each class is going to bring to the table, so we don't have a lot to go on in terms of this discussion, but I do think it is appropriate to begin a base-level conversation regarding the philosophy of how the classes should be balanced against eachother when you are fighting other players.
IMO, what I would like to see is damage bonuses and reduction to damage resistances to certain classes.
Example: A Templar should have, say an innate 10% damage bonus to necromancers when Battle Spirit is active, and take an extra 10% damage from, say Nightblades.
No Rhyme or reason for the class choices referenced, I'm just throwing that out there as a hypothetical example of how this could work. The idea here is to reinforce that there should be no dominant class - each class is going to have a favored opponent and an opponent they are innately vulnerable to. Not a huge advantage/disadvantage, but enough to tip the balance in close fights. The advantages/disadvantages could be implemented based on each class' lore and power theme as they're discussing.
Just my thoughts
0
-
tomofhyrule✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BXR_Lonestar wrote: »IMO, what I would like to see is damage bonuses and reduction to damage resistances to certain classes.
Example: A Templar should have, say an innate 10% damage bonus to necromancers when Battle Spirit is active, and take an extra 10% damage from, say Nightblades.
I really would like some Pokémon-esque effectiveness mechanic in some way.
IIRC, ESO did used to have elemental effectiveness, e.g. Flame Atros take X% less flame damage and X% more frost damage or something. I think it was changed a while back to not end up disadvantaging people based on the class they chose, but there are still remnants of it in game (vampires being susceptible to flame and wolves to poison… coincidentally both being DK’s main damage types and giving a reason why DK was so strong when vampires passives were OP and werewolf packs roamed Cyrodiil).
I honestly would love to see those effects come back. I play a DK and even I think that it’s weird that I can kill Flame Atros just as easily as anything else by… breathing fire at them?
That could even be part of the class passives: something like DKs are resistant to flame but that makes them weak to frost (and then Wardens get the opposite).2 -
SneaK✭✭✭✭✭
✭tomofhyrule wrote: »BXR_Lonestar wrote: »IMO, what I would like to see is damage bonuses and reduction to damage resistances to certain classes.
Example: A Templar should have, say an innate 10% damage bonus to necromancers when Battle Spirit is active, and take an extra 10% damage from, say Nightblades.
I really would like some Pokémon-esque effectiveness mechanic in some way.
IIRC, ESO did used to have elemental effectiveness, e.g. Flame Atros take X% less flame damage and X% more frost damage or something. I think it was changed a while back to not end up disadvantaging people based on the class they chose, but there are still remnants of it in game (vampires being susceptible to flame and wolves to poison… coincidentally both being DK’s main damage types and giving a reason why DK was so strong when vampires passives were OP and werewolf packs roamed Cyrodiil).
I honestly would love to see those effects come back. I play a DK and even I think that it’s weird that I can kill Flame Atros just as easily as anything else by… breathing fire at them?
That could even be part of the class passives: something like DKs are resistant to flame but that makes them weak to frost (and then Wardens get the opposite).
Could be wrong, but didn’t hybridization change this?
I don’t disagree with the premise of this post, I think it could be something that helps with driving variety in class choices. But, (unfortunately?) I think the main goal is identity not balance. Reason I say this is they are pushing a DoT style DK out first in a burst/crit/purge/mobility meta, all counters to a DoT build. They’ll have to give DKs unreal dmg bonuses to excel in PvP as DoT builds in the current scenario. And if subclassing reigns supreme the answer would be to subclass (main) into the class that has the modifiers that the weakest class has against you, so you’re basically unaffected.
Personally think they need to lean into the idea that there are many more ways to play other than dps/tank/heal. Set choices and CP need more variety and impact as well.
I dunno.
I do know I dislike hybridization and warden’s signature."IMO"Aldmeri Dominion1 Nightblade - 1 Templar - 7 Hybrid Mutt Abominations1