Dont deactivate normal Cyrodiil or respectfully i will not play any title with a zenimax brand anymo

spartaxoxo · November 30

imPDA wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

It wasn't a ZOS stream. It was her own personal stream about disability in gaming. PvPers joined because she was using her husband's channel but it was clearly her stream that day and she was trying to talk about handicap options. That's the context typically missing from this take. Her husband is a ZOS employee and at the time he was doing unofficial streams where he played the game, sometimes did some pet charity thing, and occasionally answered questions about the game in a more candid way.

Anyway, she obviously shouldn't have snapped but she is not a ZOS employee nor was she doing anything official. Her opinion doesn't reflect the views of ZOS.

Even if it is not official position, it is still her husband's channel, which is intrinsically linked to his position at ZOS. By associating with that channel, she inherits a degree of responsibility, this is why it is used by PvP community as a joke against ZOS. This video was not viral if it was her own channel tho. I know exactly who they are and first time I saw I though "This video is going to be mentioned forever in any PvP discussion. What have you done?".

I don't personally care about that. I think people pulled it out of context too much and it's a bummer to me because I enjoyed his streams. And I actually got some questions answered that would have been impossible outside of it.

But I don't think ZOS is blameless at all. How long has PvP been broken? Why did it take this long to figure out they couldn't fix it? Why did they ban PvP keyword from stream discussion for a hot second there? Why is vengeance replacing all other Cyrodiil PvP even put forth as an option? That seems like it should be completely out of the question to me. The Q&A has taken way too long. Why haven't they done more with battle spirit to ensure stuff that's fine in PvE doesn't have a negative impact on PvP (and vice versa?) How long does op sets and ball groups have to be complained about before it's better balanced. Etc etc.

I don't think ZOS has handled PvP balance and performance as well as they have PvE. So, even though I don't personally think that clip should be used against ZOS as much as it is, I also understand the rightful frustration it added towards. So, even though I can't agree, I also understand. I think PvP players' frustration at the state of game is completely reasonable.

LPapirius · November 30

Radiate77 wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

Stridig wrote: »

CatoUnchained wrote: »

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

MorallyBipolar wrote: »

fizzybeef wrote: »

ceruulean wrote: »

ToddIngram wrote: »

Spoken like a PvE main who never sets foot in Cyrodiil.

I am a PvE main and I have stepped foot in Cyrodiil, so nice ad hominem that accomplishes nothing. So far, no one has actually answered or countered my points from a gameplay design perspective.

First of all, what is the point of Cyrodiil? This is so broad and vague that there is no correct answer. The generic answer is that it's for emergent PvP gameplay. This means that it needs to cater to both casual and hardcore players. Because of resource constraints, the devs must choose a main focus. They've answered this already: massive populations of medieval siege warfare. That's the main gameplay experience that ZoS wants for Cyrodiil. In order to entice people to join, it must cater to the lowest common denominator. I have heard players say: "I used to be a hardcore PvPer. Oh, I absolutely suck at fighting 1v1, but I used to raid with a ball group." You never needed a high level of fighting/mechanical skill to enjoy Cyrodiil PvP, and you won't in Vengeance either.

This is important, because everyone has a different definition of "skill," and if you don't specify which skill you're talking about, the message gets confused. As far as I'm concerned, Cyrodiil doesn't reward individual fighting skill. Actually, picking random 1v1 fights is a waste of time. You can do it for fun, of course, but the most AP gain comes from doing quests, capturing and defending keeps, and farming resources or pug players with a ball group. Currently, Cyrodiil rewards group coordination, shelling out $$$$ and grinding for DLC Monomyth mythics.

I think mythic items ruin the spirit of competition. How important is it to preserve the spirit of competition versus rewarding grinders who want to feel more powerful? Well, only ZoS can make a final decision on how to reward grinders and which stats to equalize.

What is the threshold for dying based on how many mistakes you make? Some people refer to this as the "time to kill." Given that Cyrodiil has one of the biggest open world PvP maps in the market, the punishment for dying is, on average, a tedious 30-40 second romp to another objective. Death is not that punishing in ESO compared to games like Conan Exiles, but you don't want people stuck riding on their horses for too long either. To put it simply: What is an acceptable "time to kill" between 2 players of the same skill level?

What is an acceptable time-to-kill that isn't too punishing for respawning, and lets you feel satisfied? Right now, in Vengeance it's maybe 2-5 minutes. I spent about 2-3 minutes dueling some random nightblade on my templar, in an open field without hiding behind walls or rocks. I checked with CMX addon. Once I hopped on my nightblade, I killed him in 1 minute, proving that there is a power imbalance between nightblade and templar. Is 2-5 minutes considered too long of a TTK? Should it be shorter or longer? So far, the TTK feels fine to me. It's better than the U40 meta with all the Undeath vampires tanking full-powered executes. Vengeance TTK feels a little longer than our current U48 meta of subclassed bow procs.

Anyway, the whole point of this thread is to complain about the scummy behavior of locking pay-to-win items behind expansions, and then ZoS doing a 180, "ah wait, maybe we should make PvP more equal after all!" Personally I'm fine with that. I'm glad that ZoS is making the necessary changes to make PvP gameplay more fun. I like doing equalized pvp, and I don't mind if all my PvP sets become useless if the actual PvP experience becomes more enjoyable, more people try PvP, and more people participate in it.

If I was a new customer who never bought ESO, and you show me peak footage from Vengeance, I would buy ESO in a heartbeat. If you show me peak footage from 2024-25 Gray Host Cyrodiil, I wouldn't bat an eye.

A lot of people (me included) bought eso first because of the prommised pvp.
And a lot of people (me included) leave instantly if vengeance becomes fix as only one option.

You dont understand cyro and thats fine, but no reason to talk it bad for others.

So if vengeance is mandated it negates the need for me to PvE while at the same time driving me out of PvP. Vengeance will remove any reason for me to play ESO.

Yes once Vengeance is the only Cyro campaign left, regardless of any other PvP content they release without it I am definitely done as well

Honestly if it weren't for all the time I have played and all the friends I have made I would probably have quit after reading the letter they put out.

Add me to the list. If ZOS takes away normal live Cyrodiil there will be no reason for me to log on to ESO. Anyone else remember the "they're working on it" video featuring a main dev and his wife? This current situation sure puts that video in perspective now doesn't it.

That video is one example of the player community getting treated like trash. There are also content creators who have been publicly humiliated for thousands of people to see. It's never been about us.

This is the video people are discussing, for those who haven't seen it yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrLS3ROGw_A

As Cato said, it really puts this whole vengeance issue in perspective, doesn't it.

Personally I won't be playing any version of vengeance ever again, ever, not for any reason. I'll just have to move on if ZOS makes vengeance the only option.

I wonder how many times this same clip is going to be used to try to discredit Rich or the team, because his wife who is not employed by ZOS, was tired of the harassment her husband kept receiving on stream.

While I agree, and have always agreed, that PvP needs attention, there are people in our community that take things too far… borderline criminal.

This behavior took place during an official ESO live stream. And a spouse doesn't act like that if they aren't reflecting the thinking of their spouse.

The only borderline criminal act happening here is how ZOS treats it's customers.

Al_Ex_Andre · November 30

Vengeance is the way for devs to come back to the roots of massive battles. But in the meantime, game has evolved itself to small scale high skilled pvp-ers. What will devs choose ultimately, I am not too sure.

Just a random comment.

LPapirius · November 30

Al_Ex_Andre wrote: »

Vengeance is the way for devs to come back to the roots of massive battles. But in the meantime, game has evolved itself to small scale high skilled pvp-ers. What will devs choose ultimately, I am not too sure.

Just a random comment.

No it's not. Vengeance is a way to run 90% plus of the PvP players from their game.

joergino · December 1

LPapirius wrote: »

This behavior took place during an official ESO live stream. And a spouse doesn't act like that if they aren't reflecting the thinking of their spouse.

This is not true. This was on Mr Lambert's private stream, not on Bethesda's official channel / during ESO live.

In addition, people don't need to have identical opinions to be spouses.

xR3ACTORx · December 1

I think everyone can agree that Rich Lambert wife didn't do him a favor in that situation, regardless if the stream was an official stream or not

OleResinHead · December 1

I will definitely stop spending money on the game and will stop playing if they remove grayhost. That’s 75% or more of the reason myself and several other of my friends play this game still. I’m hoping they can keep grayhost around. Sorry if I got a little animated, I just really like cyrodill how it is

Nemesis7884 · December 1

What vengeance needs is all the speed buffs...the slownes is killing me

ZOS_Icy · December 1

Greetings,

After removing a few off topic posts, we would like to ask everyone to keep posts on the subject at hand, as well as keeping things civil and constructive.

The Elder Scrolls Online Team

SneaK · December 1

ceruulean wrote: »

Idk bruh, I've popped 2 players in 5-7 seconds in vengeance, on a plar mind you. So idk how these low skill players are surviving because they die pretty quickly. Of course they survive in a group, that's what weaker players do because it's natural instinct. Of course if a sorc streak away, or a NB cloaks away, or a plar focuses on pure heals then I won't be able to kill them, but it was the same in u44 pvp. Maybe u47 subclassing pvp you can one shot people in duels with enough burst and proc stacking but I haven't really dueled people since most of the time it's warden charm spammers and I'm tired of spending 10 minutes getting nowhere.

Basically, for the most part Vengeance is pretty much tuned very finely that every build choice has impact on your effectiveness, down to the number of defensive and offensive skills you slot. And you can't really play a heal bot in a zerg that well. If ZoS uncaps the AoE damage, then healing will also need higher caps because so far, people do more damage than my 2 heals can outheal. I need to play smart to survive and not run out of resources. I am very happy with vengeance as it is. Sure, balance can be tweaked but it's way better than live pvp.

You don’t even know your enemy, much less understand it.

Neglecting balance for years and actually further pushing imbalance is the reason why you like Vengeance. It’s like some sick science experiment. Balance in ESO hasn’t been a thing for a long while and I can’t blame you for enjoying Vengeance if you are newer to PvP (post hybridization). There are players that want to PvP (assuming like you) that have never gotten to play ESO PvP with any semblance of balance. And now that’s the problem, ZOS doesn’t want to deal with balancing things anymore, maybe cause they don’t understand combat in ESO and how all the changes they’ve made over the years have crushed balance, I dunno and can’t understand the reasoning here. But instead of investing in balancing the game, they’ve created a template of builds reminiscent of 2016, which said builds were prior to all the terrible updates this team has given us. It’s wild.

And now we have an influx of 3-5 years of newer players wanting to PvP but they can’t survive because the power gap/balance is so far apart. They blame the other players or their experience on current “Cyrodiil” because that’s all they know. Meanwhile, there are many many many vets that have been screaming about balance into a void for years only to be met with silence, and more recently “fixes” for something other than balance. The issue is not how players play or how Cyrodiil is built, the issue is we have a team that is dedicated to the wrong issues and has given up on balance, because ever since hybridization all the updates have been snowballing into what we have now and they refuse to admit any of those decisions were not great.

And on classes, play a MagNB or MagSorc in your next Vengeance “test”, you’re welcome.

SaffronCitrusflower · December 1

OleResinHead wrote: »

I will definitely stop spending money on the game and will stop playing if they remove grayhost. That’s 75% or more of the reason myself and several other of my friends play this game still. I’m hoping they can keep grayhost around. Sorry if I got a little animated, I just really like cyrodill how it is

ZOS saying that they're not even going to try to improve Cyrodiil is the same as them saying they're refusing to do their jobs. Most people who refuse to do their jobs are fired in short order.

We now know vengeance was never just a test. Vengeance only is the goal ZOS is shooting for. If ZOS takes away Cyrodiil PvP there will be no reason to play ESO for me and most on my friends list. Speaking only for me, I'll never trust ZOS/Bethesda again and will never spend any money on any title they may release going forward if they mandate vengeance.

Radiate77 · December 1

Vengeance was a test, just not one about performance.

I’m of the opinion that they are testing Vengeance to see how much compromise we are willing to make, with each rollout compromising less and less to find where people are the least unhappy.

fizzybeef · December 1

Radiate77 wrote: »

Vengeance was a test, just not one about performance.

I’m of the opinion that they are testing Vengeance to see how much compromise we are willing to make, with each rollout compromising less and less to find where people are the least unhappy.

Probably a test how much we take and still stay paying customers. I can just say, for me this is one to much.

I went through all bad phases of the game and never have whitnessed it being that bad & unbeneficial managed wich led us to the lowest population i have seen since 2018.

People are unhappy with subclassing specially the balancing, people are unhappy with „once in a lifetime event“ , people are unhappy with the new zone and people are unhappy with the vengeance plans.

Is it the paying customers who are wrong or is the developers direction they are pushing atm mislead.
I think overall you need to please the customers.
And these are running away atm.

Radiate77 · December 1

@fizzybeef barking up the wrong tree about Subclassing. People were unhappy with balance before Subclassing, and they will ALWAYS be unhappy until every option is 1-1, yet when Vengeance offers that, nobody wants it.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/685521/subclassing-appreciation/p1

I agree with most of what you wrote, just not your jab at my second favorite system, Subclassing.

BardokRedSnow · December 1

Even if they correct this and do right by pvp

Radiate77 wrote: »

@fizzybeef barking up the wrong tree about Subclassing. People were unhappy with balance before Subclassing, and they will ALWAYS be unhappy until every option is 1-1, yet when Vengeance offers that, nobody wants it.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/685521/subclassing-appreciation/p1

I agree with most of what you wrote, just not your jab at my second favorite system, Subclassing.

You gotta admit though introducing subclassing as is without even thinking about any sort of balance is like me telling zos the toilet is getting clogged and instead of plunging they take a dump and flush repeatedly.

Tossing fuel on the kitchen fire, whatever you wanna say, they just really needed that new system out now to justify that season pass.

Pvers might want 1-1 vengeance, we just want checks and balances. Subclassing has exacerbated the issue dramatically.

SneaK · December 1

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Even if they correct this and do right by pvp

Radiate77 wrote: »

@fizzybeef barking up the wrong tree about Subclassing. People were unhappy with balance before Subclassing, and they will ALWAYS be unhappy until every option is 1-1, yet when Vengeance offers that, nobody wants it.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/685521/subclassing-appreciation/p1

I agree with most of what you wrote, just not your jab at my second favorite system, Subclassing.

You gotta admit though introducing subclassing as is without even thinking about any sort of balance is like me telling zos the toilet is getting clogged and instead of plunging they take a dump and flush repeatedly.

Tossing fuel on the kitchen fire, whatever you wanna say, they just really needed that new system out now to justify that season pass.

Pvers might want 1-1 vengeance, we just want checks and balances. Subclassing has exacerbated the issue dramatically.

@Radiate77 @BardokRedSnow
Let’s not start this again

BardokRedSnow · December 1

SneaK wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Even if they correct this and do right by pvp

Radiate77 wrote: »

@fizzybeef barking up the wrong tree about Subclassing. People were unhappy with balance before Subclassing, and they will ALWAYS be unhappy until every option is 1-1, yet when Vengeance offers that, nobody wants it.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/685521/subclassing-appreciation/p1

I agree with most of what you wrote, just not your jab at my second favorite system, Subclassing.

You gotta admit though introducing subclassing as is without even thinking about any sort of balance is like me telling zos the toilet is getting clogged and instead of plunging they take a dump and flush repeatedly.

Tossing fuel on the kitchen fire, whatever you wanna say, they just really needed that new system out now to justify that season pass.

Pvers might want 1-1 vengeance, we just want checks and balances. Subclassing has exacerbated the issue dramatically.

Let’s not start this again lol

Until this kwama pile gets cleaned I will mention it again and again til zos fixes it, hires me to fix it, or eso dies.

And I genuinely think I would do a better job than these people, they're so out of touch with their own game its painful.

SneaK · December 1

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Even if they correct this and do right by pvp

Radiate77 wrote: »

@fizzybeef barking up the wrong tree about Subclassing. People were unhappy with balance before Subclassing, and they will ALWAYS be unhappy until every option is 1-1, yet when Vengeance offers that, nobody wants it.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/685521/subclassing-appreciation/p1

I agree with most of what you wrote, just not your jab at my second favorite system, Subclassing.

You gotta admit though introducing subclassing as is without even thinking about any sort of balance is like me telling zos the toilet is getting clogged and instead of plunging they take a dump and flush repeatedly.

Tossing fuel on the kitchen fire, whatever you wanna say, they just really needed that new system out now to justify that season pass.

Pvers might want 1-1 vengeance, we just want checks and balances. Subclassing has exacerbated the issue dramatically.

Let’s not start this again lol

Until this kwama pile gets cleaned I will mention it again and again til zos fixes it, hires me to fix it, or eso dies.

And I genuinely think I would do a better job than these people, they're so out of touch with their own game its painful.

Oh I was just making a joke, forum is for discussion have at it. However the subclassing topic will highjack any thread very quickly.

Never met you but I have no doubt your confidence is justified.

BardokRedSnow · December 1

SneaK wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Even if they correct this and do right by pvp

Radiate77 wrote: »

@fizzybeef barking up the wrong tree about Subclassing. People were unhappy with balance before Subclassing, and they will ALWAYS be unhappy until every option is 1-1, yet when Vengeance offers that, nobody wants it.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/685521/subclassing-appreciation/p1

I agree with most of what you wrote, just not your jab at my second favorite system, Subclassing.

You gotta admit though introducing subclassing as is without even thinking about any sort of balance is like me telling zos the toilet is getting clogged and instead of plunging they take a dump and flush repeatedly.

Tossing fuel on the kitchen fire, whatever you wanna say, they just really needed that new system out now to justify that season pass.

Pvers might want 1-1 vengeance, we just want checks and balances. Subclassing has exacerbated the issue dramatically.

Let’s not start this again lol

Until this kwama pile gets cleaned I will mention it again and again til zos fixes it, hires me to fix it, or eso dies.

And I genuinely think I would do a better job than these people, they're so out of touch with their own game its painful.

Oh I was just making a joke, forum is for discussion have at it. However the subclassing topic will highjack any thread very quickly.

Never met you but I have no doubt your confidence is justified.

This forum needs emotes lol, I knew it was a joke but as you said, subclassing is a touchy subject lmao.

And as I write this I remembered it does have emotes

fizzybeef · 5:02AM

Radiate77 wrote: »

@fizzybeef barking up the wrong tree about Subclassing. People were unhappy with balance before Subclassing, and they will ALWAYS be unhappy until every option is 1-1, yet when Vengeance offers that, nobody wants it.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/685521/subclassing-appreciation/p1

I agree with most of what you wrote, just not your jab at my second favorite system, Subclassing.

Okay but even when its your favorite system and you made a thread and pushed it a lot, it doesnt change subclassing is like the most controverse system in ages. It faked a 'play how you like' because yes you can slap all sorts of combinations together but only like 10% of them are good and used in endgame.

But im sure for the 5 role players in the forums who wished for subclassing a dream became true, the majority still doesnt like it and i understand and agree with that.

And now we have vengeance somehow in planning or even just consideration to be permanent, after being lied to that it was just 'a test' and this is for me like the biggest scandal in my 15 years of gaming history.
Never seen Devs saying A but doing B like this before. It´s so massively off track, i have already stopped eso plus and my play time from every day 2-3 hours went down to one hour per week as most.
Part of this aswell is obviously that PS EU is just not populated anymore - and the activities i wanna play after i finished all quests and chill content, multiple times, are nearly non existent so.

Radiate77 · 6:07AM

Yes, I agree that there is a huge divide where people stand when it comes to balance in ESO.

I also believe that if the current team plans on growing the game, they need to carve out a huge swath of their playerbase so that there are only people who appreciate the dev’s vision left, and then double triple down on those design choices.

-Instead of Subclassing, tear the classes apart.
-Instead of Scribing, give us true 2014 Spellcrafting.
-Instead of current Vengeance, flesh it out, make it something that we actually want to play.

Now ZOS needs to stop pandering and dancing around the truth. They need to come out strong and clear, and say, “this is our vision” and then stick to that vision.

Anything else will end in complete failure.

That said, I’m sure I’m not the only one tired of watching this company get bullied into a stalemate. They need to understand that a game made for everyone is a game for no one.

React · 6:18AM

Radiate77 wrote: »

Yes, I agree that there is a huge divide where people stand when it comes to balance in ESO.

I also believe that if the current team plans on growing the game, they need to carve out a huge swath of their playerbase so that there are only people who appreciate the dev’s vision left, and then double triple down on those design choices.

Ah yes. Removing all dissenters and creating an echo chamber where no negative feedback about perceived bad decisions can exist. That sounds like a great way to have a healthy and thriving community!

Radiate77 · 6:27AM

React wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Yes, I agree that there is a huge divide where people stand when it comes to balance in ESO.

I also believe that if the current team plans on growing the game, they need to carve out a huge swath of their playerbase so that there are only people who appreciate the dev’s vision left, and then double triple down on those design choices.

Ah yes. Removing all dissenters and creating an echo chamber where no negative feedback about perceived bad decisions can exist. That sounds like a great way to have a healthy and thriving community!

How do you think Warframe turned around?

Negative feedback can exist, but that’s not what we have. We have a boycott of a design choice, and talks of trust gone forever.

There is no path backwards that will end in our community being okay. Everyone will be unhappy in that situation, that trust will still be gone even if they backpedal, except now my trust would be gone… along with anyone else who got over their annoyances with their direction and began to see things optimistically.

Here are the two choices you have when you spend years lying to your community about a game being for everyone… and then finally that illusion becomes shattered.

Half of your community happy.
-or-
None of your community happy.

Which half would you pick?

fizzybeef · 6:46AM

Radiate77 wrote: »

React wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Yes, I agree that there is a huge divide where people stand when it comes to balance in ESO.

I also believe that if the current team plans on growing the game, they need to carve out a huge swath of their playerbase so that there are only people who appreciate the dev’s vision left, and then double triple down on those design choices.

Ah yes. Removing all dissenters and creating an echo chamber where no negative feedback about perceived bad decisions can exist. That sounds like a great way to have a healthy and thriving community!

How do you think Warframe turned around?

Negative feedback can exist, but that’s not what we have. We have a boycott of a design choice, and talks of trust gone forever.

There is no path backwards that will end in our community being okay. Everyone will be unhappy in that situation, that trust will still be gone even if they backpedal, except now my trust would be gone… along with anyone else who got over their annoyances with their direction and began to see things optimistically.

Those are the two choices when you spend years lying to your community about a game being for everyone…

Half of your community happy.
-or-
None of your community happy.

Which half would you pick?

At the moment nobody is happy.
But this was not always like this.

You can tell me what you want, it started with
-hybridisation
-went further with the release of nonsense broken sets
(take: im saying this as a ball group player, i would of NOT needed pull sets! They are broken and boring, before pul sets were released the pvp was more fun).
- Subclassing
- Vengeance (specially being lied too, when it was claimed it´s really just a test)
- terrible long once in a lifetime events

This all is summing up in a massive chunk of everyone is unhappy in the past 2 years.
Content creators left the game. Players left the game. Dev´s got left (of) the game.

The current path is destruction of ESO, nothing else

EDITED: Forgot a word

Radiate77 · 6:52AM

fizzybeef wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

React wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Yes, I agree that there is a huge divide where people stand when it comes to balance in ESO.

I also believe that if the current team plans on growing the game, they need to carve out a huge swath of their playerbase so that there are only people who appreciate the dev’s vision left, and then double triple down on those design choices.

Ah yes. Removing all dissenters and creating an echo chamber where no negative feedback about perceived bad decisions can exist. That sounds like a great way to have a healthy and thriving community!

How do you think Warframe turned around?

Negative feedback can exist, but that’s not what we have. We have a boycott of a design choice, and talks of trust gone forever.

There is no path backwards that will end in our community being okay. Everyone will be unhappy in that situation, that trust will still be gone even if they backpedal, except now my trust would be gone… along with anyone else who got over their annoyances with their direction and began to see things optimistically.

Those are the two choices when you spend years lying to your community about a game being for everyone…

Half of your community happy.
-or-
None of your community happy.

Which half would you pick?

At the moment nobody is happy.
But this was not always like this.

You can tell me what you want, it started with
-hybridisation
-went further with the release of nonsense broken sets
(take: im saying this as a ball group player, i would of needed pull sets! They are broken and boring, before pul sets were released the pvp was more fun).
- Subclassing
- Vengeance (specially being lied too, when it was claimed it´s really just a test)
- terrible long once in a lifetime events

This all is summing up in a massive chunk of everyone is unhappy in the past 2 years.
Content creators left the game. Players left the game. Dev´s got left (of) the game.

The current path is destruction of ESO, nothing else

I agree, too many half measures.

jle30303 · 5:05PM

Pardon me for asking, but why are people talking about Grey Host specifically? You're limited to one alliance in that server. If you play more than one character, and your characters are of different alliances, that locks them out of PVP entirely.

Why is the comparison always being made "Vengeance versus Grey Host" and not "Vengeance versus Blackreach"?

I also don't play Ravenwatch because I object to having worked for my skills, points and upgrades and *not* being able to use them - whatever those upgrades (CP) might be.

Icereach might as well not exist because people level up to 50 so quickly that they disqualify themselves from it.

Even though I am personally rubbish at PVP.

If the problem is that too many calculations in one place crash the server, change the *individual sets, skills, equipment or whatever* to require fewer.

If the problem is that too many animations crash the server and cause lag (which does not only happen in Cyrodiil - it happened all the time at Writhing Wall Event Siege Camps, at Mirrormoor Incursions in the early days, and is even a persistent problem at the regular Alikr Desert Dolmens when they get really active), simplify the animations. Fewer sparks, fewer glows, less intensive graphics. If necessary, turn every player into a blue, yellow or red silhouette with a generic imposed "uniform". Whatever works, versus whatever doesn't work.

If another problem is that certain tactics make a group unbeatable and there *is* no tactic that works against it, reduce those tactics. Cross-shielding and cross-healing are a case in point. Mass-pulls should be for NPC monsters only, not for players. There should be less defence against a player being pulled *out* of a group and quickly focused down before they can get back in, or before the group gets back to them.

But the big reason I don't PVP much is: The rewards - even "per objective" - are too meagre. The Alliance Point rewards just do not give enough, either in the way of progress towards higher levels, or in the way of saving up alliance points (or other tokens - Siege of Cyrodiil Merits, for example, or Arena Whatsit Thingamabobs) to gain gear from the various Cyrodiil outfits or style pages, of which there are already too many.

And that's just Cyrodiil. Imperial City is a benighted hell-hole which is even worse, especially with the whole Tel Var theft issue.

JustLovely · 5:10PM

React wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Yes, I agree that there is a huge divide where people stand when it comes to balance in ESO.

I also believe that if the current team plans on growing the game, they need to carve out a huge swath of their playerbase so that there are only people who appreciate the dev’s vision left, and then double triple down on those design choices.

Ah yes. Removing all dissenters and creating an echo chamber where no negative feedback about perceived bad decisions can exist. That sounds like a great way to have a healthy and thriving community!

Welcome to the forum!

ShutUpitsRed · 5:18PM

jle30303 wrote: »

Pardon me for asking, but why are people talking about Grey Host specifically? You're limited to one alliance in that server. If you play more than one character, and your characters are of different alliances, that locks them out of PVP entirely.

Why is the comparison always being made "Vengeance versus Grey Host" and not "Vengeance versus Blackreach"?

Gray Host (somewhat) prevents people from just swapping to whatever toon/alliance is winning to zerg surf for AP and not give the other alliances a chance. When you're locked into a certain alliance for a campaign, you can't just swap to the other color if that's where the getting is good.

SneaK · 5:48PM

Radiate77 wrote: »

React wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Yes, I agree that there is a huge divide where people stand when it comes to balance in ESO.

I also believe that if the current team plans on growing the game, they need to carve out a huge swath of their playerbase so that there are only people who appreciate the dev’s vision left, and then double triple down on those design choices.

Ah yes. Removing all dissenters and creating an echo chamber where no negative feedback about perceived bad decisions can exist. That sounds like a great way to have a healthy and thriving community!

How do you think Warframe turned around?

Negative feedback can exist, but that’s not what we have. We have a boycott of a design choice, and talks of trust gone forever.

There is no path backwards that will end in our community being okay. Everyone will be unhappy in that situation, that trust will still be gone even if they backpedal, except now my trust would be gone… along with anyone else who got over their annoyances with their direction and began to see things optimistically.

Here are the two choices you have when you spend years lying to your community about a game being for everyone… and then finally that illusion becomes shattered.

Half of your community happy.
-or-
None of your community happy.

Which half would you pick?

This is wrong in all the wrong ways. In no way shape or form would the best decision be to pick a side. They won’t backtrack on Vengeance now, we know their pride is too yuge for that. But they can give some sort of commitment to a community that already exists by not deleting their game.