I'd like to inject a dose of reality.

Hugie wrote: »

Lack of meaningful rewards. Rewards in ESO are anemic across the board, but they're especially insulting in this event. I really hope the new leadership team will take a hard look at this topic heading into ESO's next decade. Compared to other games, ESO simply doesn't reward investment in the gameplay loops that players are expected to engage with. Dopamine hits are weekly at best instead of hourly. With regard to this event, the non-gold coffers are, simply put, garbage. Overland gear is not exciting. Plunder worth <5k gold is not exciting. I don't expect this complaint to effect change, but I really hope someone at ZoS cares enough to audit rewards in this game and realize that if players don't feel their time is valued, they will leave.

Is fun not the reward? I'm deadly serious. Do people play for fun and satisfaction or intangible digital items that could be wiped out by a solar flare?

You are correct, rewards give a dopamine hit, which leads to addiction. Having less dopamine hits is a bad thing?

Hugie wrote: »

Lack of urgency. The cross-server competition proceeds at a snail's pace. The camps are glorified dolmens; there are no repercussions to winning or "losing". I understand that there is likely a "need" internally to manufacture some longevity into this event/content -- there usually is in MMOs -- but a competition designed to feel like a race is not the place for that. When I log in and do a dozen event dailies, I don't see or feel any discernible difference vs. doing 3 dailies for gold coffers. The progress bar for the server doesn't budge either way; my contribution is far too small to matter given the scale involved. That's a problem, because the rewards for the event activities suck, which means I'm unlikely to engage with the event more than the bare minimum. To me, that suggests poor game design. If I don't feel like my contribution matters AND I don't feel like my contribution yields worthwhile rewards... why should I keep playing beyond habit?

The cross-server "competition" was a marketing ploy. Used in every MMO community event in every MMO that has the same platform or server setup.

And now some more reality.

Hugie wrote: »

Reward the grind with recognition. Next time, relax limits on contributions per day. Let the grinders grind (and make continued grinding rewarding!). But beyond giving grinders merely something to occupy their time with, give them recognition, too. This event absolutely should have shipped with a Leaderboard to spotlight top contributors, with unique rewards dangled as incentives for the top X contributors per phase per server.

Grinding is bad. It's bad for the player. It's bad for the player's mental health. It's bad.

ZOS have taken many steps to reduce the grind in the game. They should be lauded for it because a lot of games don't.

Hugie wrote: »

Make it a sprint, not a marathon. Next time, lean harder into the race concept. We had plenty of forewarning that this event was happening as players, and plenty of time to get hyped about it and to ensure we were free to participate. Each phase should be taking a week -- not three! Compressing the timeline makes progress and participation feel more meaningful at an individual and at a server level. It also creates FOMO, which is a critical ingredient in successful MMO design (despite the chorus of casual players who resent it). FOMO IS GOOD. FOMO makes people play your game instead of other games. The only piece of FOMO in this event is the Wall Breaker title, which I think is a fine yet tiny step in the right direction.

Compressing the timeline excludes those who paid for the content but may not be able to play for some or most of the timeframe due to this thing called real-life.

Also FOMO is bad. It's bad for the player. It's bad for the player's mental health. It's bad.

Hugie wrote: »

Don't doctor the numbers. I understand that certain servers have dramatically higher populations than others, and that the thresholds for participation/progress are adjusted accordingly for fairness and practicality. Well... races aren't fair. Races are about winning. Moreover, the fact that ZoS has seen the need to tweak progress #s along the way to calibrate for desired end date undermines the entire point of the competition. Next time, instead of asking console to jump over a 1' obstacle and PC to jump over a 5' one, consider letting the more populated servers reap the benefits from their numerical advantage & the less populated server enjoyers deal with consequences of playing an online game on a low-populated platform. What's the point of a race if each server is artificially positioned to run vastly different distances? It becomes contrived and meaningless.

ZOS have a pre-determined window in which they want the event to run. ZOS don't know exactly how many players will login, and of those how many will participate, so they have to adjust the rate to meet the window.

You fell for an obvious marketing ploy, used in every MMO comunnuity event in every MMO ever.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

But running from siege camp to siege camp and spamming skills at a boss I can’t see and getting no loot because I play a tank and therefore are not top 12 DPS is not fun. So if this game wants me to do that, they need to give me something because “fun” ain’t it.

Eh? SIege camps don't work like WBs, they work like dolmens, and anyone who participates to any degree gets to loot the chest. The most "loot" the bosses drop are 10 gold and the occassional vitrified soul.

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

The problem with races is that for them to work you need clear and defined metrics, rules, objectives, and a way to measure individual performance, incentive, and a time limit.
This event lacks all of that.

And it needs to be balanced fairly, plus everyone should have the same conditions to participate. I'm actually curious whether the pc servers might catch up a bit now because they already get the world boss now - while console players still have to wait for it for 2 weeks. Which is a clear disadvantage that should not exist in a fair competition.

RE: "FOMO is bad, grind is bad" --

I do appreciate the quality of life changes ZoS has added over the years to reduce some of the nastier grinds that were previously in the game. Transmuting traits and reconning from stickerbook are two great examples; never again must we run Arx Corinium ad nauseum for that Medusa Inferno, or vSS for that elusive sharpened Lokke battleaxe!

But this is an MMO and this event was designed for the grinders -- that much is clear. The crafting quests are monotonous and repetitive, as are the camp defenses, as are the fetch quests. My point is that if we're going to have a grindy event, at least make the grind rewarding -- with recognition via leaderboard and with prizes that make a player feel like their efforts were worthwhile.

You clearly think grinding and FOMO are "bad," and that's fine. Everyone games differently and enjoys different aspects of gameplay. But there are plenty of players who are looking for a grind or are motivated by FOMO, and play MMOs in pursuit of those chases. In the case of the writhing wall event, I do not think that those players are feeling the love, and I think that's a big missed opportunity on ZoS's part.

As for the gamers who don't like grind and don't like FOMO? Well, they can always feel free to abstain from those activities. It hurts no one to make the event rewarding to those with the time and interest to engage vigorously.

Would have been good if the event was linked to the Golden pursuit, then it wouldnt haved dragged on like it has

Take a real vacation during the entire event.

AvalonRanger wrote: »

If this thread means problem of "writhing wall event", then...

I don't have any of complaining against old style DLC.
If developers are planning next DLC, please bring back old style.

I don't want to grind for meaningless contents.

Most biggest my complaining against those event is that people lost chance to play
other grouping contents than usual, because of event. Especially lowbies or low
experienced players. Not like reward problem.

There're so many of good grouping contents in ESO already. (WB, dungeon, Trial, IA)
Just let people what they really want to do.

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Is fun not the reward? I'm deadly serious. Do people play for fun and satisfaction or intangible digital items that could be wiped out by a solar flare?

Fun is always the reward in a game. Interesting content is fun. Good loot enables fun (mats to make gear, furnishings etc). For fun, we'd ideally have both, but would need at least one or the other.

Interminable fetch quests with bad loot isn't fun to me.

I agree that FOMO is terrible though, and relying on FOMO to sell, instead of interesting content, is not good for the long term health of the game.

Hugie wrote: »

Let me start by saying: kudos to ZoS for trying something new. I can appreciate that a lot of work went into making the Writhing Wall event happen, and I think the concept of a cross-server competition has a lot of potential.

In my opinion, though, the event has fallen short of delivering on the hype for several glaring reasons. Here is some feedback about what I perceive to be issues & some ideas that I think could help future events like this one be more positively received.

Problems:

1. Lack of meaningful rewards. Rewards in ESO are anemic across the board, but they're especially insulting in this event. I really hope the new leadership team will take a hard look at this topic heading into ESO's next decade. Compared to other games, ESO simply doesn't reward investment in the gameplay loops that players are expected to engage with. Dopamine hits are weekly at best instead of hourly. With regard to this event, the non-gold coffers are, simply put, garbage. Overland gear is not exciting. Plunder worth <5k gold is not exciting. I don't expect this complaint to effect change, but I really hope someone at ZoS cares enough to audit rewards in this game and realize that if players don't feel their time is valued, they will leave.
2. Lack of urgency. The cross-server competition proceeds at a snail's pace. The camps are glorified dolmens; there are no repercussions to winning or "losing". I understand that there is likely a "need" internally to manufacture some longevity into this event/content -- there usually is in MMOs -- but a competition designed to feel like a race is not the place for that. When I log in and do a dozen event dailies, I don't see or feel any discernible difference vs. doing 3 dailies for gold coffers. The progress bar for the server doesn't budge either way; my contribution is far too small to matter given the scale involved. That's a problem, because the rewards for the event activities suck, which means I'm unlikely to engage with the event more than the bare minimum. To me, that suggests poor game design. If I don't feel like my contribution matters AND I don't feel like my contribution yields worthwhile rewards... why should I keep playing beyond habit?

---

Suggestions:

1. Reward the grind with recognition. Next time, relax limits on contributions per day. Let the grinders grind (and make continued grinding rewarding!). But beyond giving grinders merely something to occupy their time with, give them recognition, too. This event absolutely should have shipped with a Leaderboard to spotlight top contributors, with unique rewards dangled as incentives for the top X contributors per phase per server.
2. Make it a sprint, not a marathon. Next time, lean harder into the race concept. We had plenty of forewarning that this event was happening as players, and plenty of time to get hyped about it and to ensure we were free to participate. Each phase should be taking a week -- not three! Compressing the timeline makes progress and participation feel more meaningful at an individual and at a server level. It also creates FOMO, which is a critical ingredient in successful MMO design (despite the chorus of casual players who resent it). FOMO IS GOOD. FOMO makes people play your game instead of other games. The only piece of FOMO in this event is the Wall Breaker title, which I think is a fine yet tiny step in the right direction.
3. Don't doctor the numbers. I understand that certain servers have dramatically higher populations than others, and that the thresholds for participation/progress are adjusted accordingly for fairness and practicality. Well... races aren't fair. Races are about winning. Moreover, the fact that ZoS has seen the need to tweak progress #s along the way to calibrate for desired end date undermines the entire point of the competition. Next time, instead of asking console to jump over a 1' obstacle and PC to jump over a 5' one, consider letting the more populated servers reap the benefits from their numerical advantage & the less populated server enjoyers deal with consequences of playing an online game on a low-populated platform. What's the point of a race if each server is artificially positioned to run vastly different distances? It becomes contrived and meaningless.

TLDR: please, give players a reason to engage with the content you work so hard to design. ESO is a beloved game with so many players who want a reason to keep coming back. Whether it's recognition through event-centric leaderboards (pride, envy), shinier, exclusive rewards (pride, greed), or simply leaning harder into FOMO, there are so many ways to make MMO players feel like the game is "worth playing."

I fully agree with “a sprint, not a marathon”. This grind is taking too long for what it is.

Another suggestion: make all phases unique. We’re now at phase 2 but it’s the exact same thing, and that’s disappointing. It doesn’t matter that now we have to collect a different stuff - grinding places or foes are exactly the same. Some new WB and fragments just don’t at all justify calling it phase 2, there really isn’t enough difference between the two.

Next time: don't gate content that people paid for behind a wall with an arbitrary "race" to see which server gets there first. PC players shouldn't be punished because ZOS decides to release content on PC before consoles. I'm fine waiting 2 weeks for new content if it means everyone gets it at once. What I'm not okay with is this status bar watch party where our contributions are completely obscured, so showing 95% means nothing if there's no way to know how much our efforts through this painful grind are helping.