Why do you think ESO is becoming a single player game? (Wrong Answers Only)

moderatelyfatman · October 22

It looks like most MMOs are catering towards solo players these days. I'm sure there are reasons specific to ESO that could be behind it.

AvalonRanger · October 22

Other (tell us)

I want role certification flag system for random 4 men dungeon.
(Need mini quest mission for it)

I've never seen fake tank or fake healer or almost fake DPS who can't deal bigger damage
than real tank in the trial. But in 4 men random dungeon. There're so many of fake role
everywhere. It is almost impossible to do DLC dungeon by DPS role, even in normal difficulty.

Of course we can't do veteran dungeon by random. What kind of MMO is this?

PapaTankers · October 22

Because there is a chance a random PUG will contain a combat dev who will see you having too much fun and nerf your build.

Because zos will see necro is somewhat viable again in my hands and is going to nerf it to the ground.

Nah, I get these options are supposed to be memes. Lets face it. We all know no combat dev actually plays this game.

AvalonRanger · October 22

Other (tell us)

I need single player mode for the secret contents of 4 men dungeon.
(12 men trial is OK. Because there're not much branch route out there.)

Or, I have impossible dream.

I want to do 4 men dungeon with AI controled my characters.

colossalvoids · October 22

Because Eldersrolls 6 will never come out and ESO is all there is for the next 50 years.

Unironically chances for a new TES that won't be just a StarfOut76 are so slim that the only elder scrolls game that's getting constant updates and having enough people on hopium tank would be this one.

amiiegee · October 22

Other (tell us)

Because the population is so low *_*

robwolf666 · October 22

Other (tell us)

Elder Scrolls has always been a solo player game, so a lot of people come to it with solo play in mind.
I certainly did, and even now it's very rare for me to go in to Cyrodiil/IC, and I never do "organised" group content. I don't mind joining in if I stumble across a bunch of people doing a WB, or an event like WW - generally though, I won't touch PvP/Group stuff.

AzuraFan · October 22

Other (tell us)

It's not becoming a single-player game. Story/questing content has been reduced, while dungeons and trials are coming out at the same rate, lorebooks are still being placed in trials and dungeons, leads are still in dungeons and trials, etc. I'd LOVE it if ESO was more like a single-player game, but it's not. Subclassing didn't make this a single-player game.

(If other MMOs are catering towards solo play, it's because those are the players spending the money. At the end of the day, it's always about revenue. Also, as a game ages and the population drops, it becomes more difficult to find groups, so there has to be more solo stuff to prevent a population death spiral. I'm not seeing ESO putting out more solo stuff, so that doesn't apply here right now.)

Destai · October 22

Because nobody will message other players out of fear of getting auto banned by the moderating AI.

The only thing I say in game these days is "TYFG". Gotta play it safe!

SilverBride · October 22

I don't understand "wrong answers only".

Ishtarknows · October 22

Because nobody will message other players out of fear of getting auto banned by the moderating AI.

AvalonRanger wrote: »

I want role certification flag system for random 4 men dungeon.
(Need mini quest mission for it)

I've never seen fake tank or fake healer or almost fake DPS who can't deal bigger damage
than real tank in the trial. But in 4 men random dungeon. There're so many of fake role
everywhere. It is almost impossible to do DLC dungeon by DPS role, even in normal difficulty.

Of course we can't do veteran dungeon by random. What kind of MMO is this?

A minimum DPS threshold to pass the quest would do nicely, with higher requirements for Vet/DLCs too.

I'd really like to see a quest that tested players on positioning during fight (depending on role), recognising when (and performing) an interrupt is required and maybe advice that you can change the colour of AOEs so you notice more easily that you're standing in something ouchy (if your rapidly declining health bar isn't enough).

SeaGtGruff · October 22

Other (tell us)

Being serious and speaking for myself, I prefer playing solo most of the time because it's just more convenient for me. I don't try to avoid playing with others in a group, but often I'll get invites to group while I'm in the middle of something else, and if I do decide to accept the invite then I might find myself in the middle of a vet DLC dungeon I've never run before, without gear and skills slotted for the role I was apparently expected to fill, and immediately in combat with no knowledge and experience of the mechanics and no way to swap gear and skills while in combat.

As for the game and its playerbase as a whole, it seems like most players who prefer group play such as "end-game vet PvE" or group-coordinated PvP tend to have high expectations of other players. They chase the latest cookie-cutter METAs to get maximum DPS, they expect everyone else to do the same, and they are toxic toward anyone who doesn't. They don't seem to understand, or else just don't care, that not everyone wants to chase cookie-cutter METAs, farm the latest BIS gear, assemble some idealized two-bar setup of skills and practice rotations to achieve maximum DPS, etc.

No, thank you. That isn't my idea of fun, and I play games to have fun, so I prefer to focus on the aspects, and engage in the content, of the game that I have fun playing. That includes fighting difficult bosses and clearing dungeons-- usually solo-- so it isn't like I'm avoiding "challenging" activities in the game. But I enjoy tackling challenges at my own pace and in my own ways, which are two things that seem to clash with what other players expect from everyone in their groups.

Also, if there indeed is a general trend among MMOs to cater to solo players more, I suspect it might be more out of a desire to expand their playerbases by drawing in solo players who've never tried MMOs before, and not from any desire to alienate or drive off their existing group-oriented players.

tomofhyrule · October 22

AzuraFan wrote: »

It's not becoming a single-player game. Story/questing content has been reduced, while dungeons and trials are coming out at the same rate, lorebooks are still being placed in trials and dungeons, leads are still in dungeons and trials, etc. I'd LOVE it if ESO was more like a single-player game, but it's not. Subclassing didn't make this a single-player game.

(If other MMOs are catering towards solo play, it's because those are the players spending the money. At the end of the day, it's always about revenue. Also, as a game ages and the population drops, it becomes more difficult to find groups, so there has to be more solo stuff to prevent a population death spiral. I'm not seeing ESO putting out more solo stuff, so that doesn't apply here right now.)

Let’s not pretend that Subclassing, at least the way it was done, was anything but a thing for the solo- and casual- crowd.

Players have been warning for years that the “I wish we could just pick our skill lines” would lead to a massively unbalanced system. As an example, here’s a post from someone warning about the balance issues that this could cause posted in January 2024, so over a year before Subclassing released. And it’s so accurate it could have been written yesterday.

Ph1p wrote: »

If you let players freely choose their skill lines, here's what's going to happen: Every DD will pick 3 DPS skill lines, stack all the passive boosts, combine the best damage skills, and parse 180k tomorrow. Similarly for the other roles. To counteract this massive power creep, ZOS would have to significantly adjust every single skill tree, thereby fundamentally upsetting both PVE and PVP setups.

And even if they manage to navigate this balancing nightmare successfully, it would mean that almost every existing character gets nerfed during the process. So everybody would be force to change their builds to reach their previous power level again.

Please, no! This is a 10 year old game, not an early access title. You cannot have a 1-2 year period any more where "balance patches become common". I'm not opposed to changes and additions to the game, but this would be beyond annoying and tiresome for existing players, while confusing the heck out of new joiners.

But of course, despite all of the player warnings, despite all player feedback from PTS, despite any of that, it was released in the way that completely destroyed balance. It’s clear that “balance” and “endgame” were not even an inkling in the minds of the Combat team when they did it - even the preview article said completely tone-deaf things like “there is no desire to reduce the effectiveness of pure classes” (which they did) and “with a change of this magnitude, there are balance concerns, but the team is prepared for what may come,” (which have still not been addressed in any meaningful way). But at least players who want to have their fire mage cast lightning bolts can do so, right?

If Subclassing was a thing designed for all players, then balance would have been a primary concern. But it’s looking more and more like an afterthought at best, or even something they don’t care about in the slightest. And now the standard argument is “you don’t need meta to do things!” as if that will force people to accept you in groups. This ideology centers around “I am playing with a bunch of NPCs so only my needs and entertainment matters, not at all that of others.”

Soarora · October 22

Because nobody will message other players out of fear of getting auto banned by the moderating AI.

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't understand "wrong answers only".

These posts are supposed to be fun, a lot of posts around here are very serious. Basically, a good time to make tongue-in-cheek jokes.

JustLovely · October 22

Management priorities.

AzuraFan · October 22

Other (tell us)

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Let’s not pretend that Subclassing, at least the way it was done, was anything but a thing for the solo- and casual- crowd.

I have no idea if that's true. Even if it is, subclassing hasn't turned ESO into a single-player game.

If Subclassing was a thing designed for all players, then balance would have been a primary concern.

If you think ZOS has primarily been concerned with balance every time they introduce something that would affect all players, you haven't been paying attention. There's a reason end-game players have to keep chasing the newest meta builds. Even solo/casual players have been affected when their favourite build is gutted by a combat change. It didn't start with subclassing.

JohnRingo · October 22

Other (tell us)

PvP main here. I have played purely solo for years - never grouped. Not sure I understand the question.

SilverBride · October 22

Soarora wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't understand "wrong answers only".

These posts are supposed to be fun, a lot of posts around here are very serious. Basically, a good time to make tongue-in-cheek jokes.

Ok, thanks for explaining.

AvalonRanger · October 23

Other (tell us)

AvalonRanger wrote: »

I want role certification flag system for random 4 men dungeon.
(Need mini quest mission for it)

I've never seen fake tank or fake healer or almost fake DPS who can't deal bigger damage
than real tank in the trial. But in 4 men random dungeon. There're so many of fake role
everywhere. It is almost impossible to do DLC dungeon by DPS role, even in normal difficulty.

Of course we can't do veteran dungeon by random. What kind of MMO is this?

"Princess style play"

I don't know how it say in English properly. Meaning is that carrier role player holds too much
skillless princess impression player on their back through the group contents.

This is called "princess style play" in Japan gamer's community.
Even in normal DLC dungeon, this situation usually happen in the ESO.
It feels like solo playing in the group contents.

Recently, developer made "role checker phase" in the DLC dungeon.
I think it's good decision. But after the queue matching up, DPS role
player suffer unfair disaster by the fake tank and useless healers.

So, role certification flag quest very need for undaunted dungeon contents.

Radiate77 · October 23

Because there is a chance a random PUG will contain a combat dev who will see you having too much fun and nerf your build.

colossalvoids wrote: »

Unironically chances for a new TES that won't be just a StarfOut76 are so slim that the only elder scrolls game that's getting constant updates and having enough people on hopium tank would be this one.

76 is pretty good now, actually.

colossalvoids · October 23

Because Eldersrolls 6 will never come out and ESO is all there is for the next 50 years.

Radiate77 wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Unironically chances for a new TES that won't be just a StarfOut76 are so slim that the only elder scrolls game that's getting constant updates and having enough people on hopium tank would be this one.

76 is pretty good now, actually.

Clearly biased being the 77 mate!

Iriidius · October 25

tomofhyrule wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

It's not becoming a single-player game. Story/questing content has been reduced, while dungeons and trials are coming out at the same rate, lorebooks are still being placed in trials and dungeons, leads are still in dungeons and trials, etc. I'd LOVE it if ESO was more like a single-player game, but it's not. Subclassing didn't make this a single-player game.

(If other MMOs are catering towards solo play, it's because those are the players spending the money. At the end of the day, it's always about revenue. Also, as a game ages and the population drops, it becomes more difficult to find groups, so there has to be more solo stuff to prevent a population death spiral. I'm not seeing ESO putting out more solo stuff, so that doesn't apply here right now.)

Let’s not pretend that Subclassing, at least the way it was done, was anything but a thing for the solo- and casual- crowd.

Players have been warning for years that the “I wish we could just pick our skill lines” would lead to a massively unbalanced system. As an example, here’s a post from someone warning about the balance issues that this could cause posted in January 2024, so over a year before Subclassing released. And it’s so accurate it could have been written yesterday.

Ph1p wrote: »

If you let players freely choose their skill lines, here's what's going to happen: Every DD will pick 3 DPS skill lines, stack all the passive boosts, combine the best damage skills, and parse 180k tomorrow. Similarly for the other roles. To counteract this massive power creep, ZOS would have to significantly adjust every single skill tree, thereby fundamentally upsetting both PVE and PVP setups.

And even if they manage to navigate this balancing nightmare successfully, it would mean that almost every existing character gets nerfed during the process. So everybody would be force to change their builds to reach their previous power level again.

Please, no! This is a 10 year old game, not an early access title. You cannot have a 1-2 year period any more where "balance patches become common". I'm not opposed to changes and additions to the game, but this would be beyond annoying and tiresome for existing players, while confusing the heck out of new joiners.

But of course, despite all of the player warnings, despite all player feedback from PTS, despite any of that, it was released in the way that completely destroyed balance. It’s clear that “balance” and “endgame” were not even an inkling in the minds of the Combat team when they did it - even the preview article said completely tone-deaf things like “there is no desire to reduce the effectiveness of pure classes” (which they did) and “with a change of this magnitude, there are balance concerns, but the team is prepared for what may come,” (which have still not been addressed in any meaningful way). But at least players who want to have their fire mage cast lightning bolts can do so, right?

If Subclassing was a thing designed for all players, then balance would have been a primary concern. But it’s looking more and more like an afterthought at best, or even something they don’t care about in the slightest. And now the standard argument is “you don’t need meta to do things!” as if that will force people to accept you in groups. This ideology centers around “I am playing with a bunch of NPCs so only my needs and entertainment matters, not at all that of others.”

As a solo player I definitely didn’t want subclassing to happen. It destroyed all my builds and forces me to play combination of skills not fitting together in PvP.

Higher DPS by Subclassing made soloing some content easier but so would any other DPS increase without sacrificing defense.

It allows casual players to do slightly harder content but makes it harder to meet the now increased requirements to join guilds or compete in PvP.

Roleplayers enjoying subclassing would also enjoy it without beeing stronger than pure classes for the build options it gives them.

That someone you quoted predicted 20month ago that subclassing causes power creep doesn’t prove that subclassing was done for soloplayers. Allowing players to choose 3skill lines of same role helps group players with roles much more than solo players who have to tank, selfheal and deal dmg all themself.

Subclassing in its current unbalanced state was a thing for elitist metachasers making it harder for everyone else to compete.

JaxontheUnfortunate · October 27

Other (tell us)

All of the above

The Elder Scrolls Online

Why do you think ESO is becoming a single player game? (Wrong Answers Only)

Why do you think ESO is becoming a single player game? (Wrong Answers Only) 68 votes