Share Your Thoughts on ESO's Classes with Us

Gabriel_H · October 4

DarkStrifeYT wrote: »

Templar - has legitimately everything needed and is nearly perfect. A few complaints on animations from the community and the nova ult needs a bit of a damage buff, maybe one of the morphs can have a self synergy?

Technically Nova is the tanking ulti, and sweep is the DPS ulti, though as with all base classes there is some cross-over in roles between the lines (which is why sub-classing hits differently on base classes. There is no "dps line" or "tank line" to take out. Luminous Shards has a self-take synergy, procs the minor prot/berserk passive on cast too.

tomofhyrule · October 4

A big thing that this makes me consider is what ZOS's idea of a timeline is.

I am happy seeing that Kevin's latest post here is talking about balance changes and buffs for pure classes. The way that that post reads (and the questions of the survey) make it seem like there's a desire to shift things back to pure classes having their niche with strengths and weaknesses of their own, while Subclass builds are designed around trading your own power to cover your weaknesses, which is how I would have wanted this from the start.

However... how long is this going to take? And what is the team going to be doing in the interim?

We already see that, since U46, the Combat team has spent nearly 100% of their time on Vengeance because there are few, if any, balance changes. It really does feel like the only major balance shift they considered due to subclassing was 1) neuter DK sustain, 2) force Sorcs back into pet builds (partially reverted), 3) disallow ultimate passives from stacking, 4) change the giga buff from Grim Focus to a different very strong buff, 5) throw one bone to Necros in U48.

Are we expecting the team to do nothing but balance next year, considering how much needs to be done? Does this mean that we won't have the chance of seeing new Grimoires/Skill Lines/Classes until that's all done? And, after the fact that Solstice was a bit of a let down overall mostly due to the lack of new additions, does this bode well for the game if the Combat team doesn't add any of these?

Furthermore, the power level pre-U46 and post-U46 is off the charts. Nobody wants a bunch of hard-hitting nerfs (see U35), but is the Combat team okay with the current level of power possible, considering most standard trials have a strategy of "burn it hard enough that we don't need to see the mechanics." Are they going to consider taking power away? Or buffing PvE enemies? Or are they intending that the Encounter team's mechanic design is only for lower DPS groups and it's fine to burn through them?

I feel like the rebalance from this is a monumental task, but I do think that the team should have seen at least some of these issues coming when they planned Subclassing - after all, withing 24h of it leaking, the large raider Discords were already pointing all of these issues out without even having seen it. Is the Combat team really so detached from the players that they couldn't see that? (Don't answer that). Is that raising no alarm bells?

I want this balanced, I really do. At least I can still do my dungeon tris as a pureclass since I'm good enough at my role and have friends who don't mind me taking a harder route, but I can't just "lol I want to eat self nerfs!" in trial tri progs. But... I also want new things - 2025 was a pretty boring year since we didn't get anything really new to play with, just throwing a bunch of old stuff in a blender. I want to play with some new Grimoires (Werewolves desperately need something, and I also think a channelled beam that steals Overload's Heavy Attack animation to make a Fatecarver-esque elemental beam would be awesome). And I desperately want a new Class to be able to play with three all-new Skill Lines (bonus points for an Artificer with automata summons, grenades and traps, and tonal magic).
...but is this asking for having my cake and eating it too? Will we only get one or the other?

Tariq9898 · October 5

Gabriel_H wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

That implies that it is intended that the parent classes each have their own strengths and weaknesses and that the point of Subclassing is to give players a way to make up for the inherent weaknesses of their Class.

It's a little more complex than that. ZOS have even said as much themselves.

“We know the Subclassing system will infuse power into the player community. For example, players can drop their tank and support skill lines for more damage-dealing abilities and passives,” notes Day. “However, there is a trade-off—by taking all damage skill lines, you are more reliant on your team for support healing, shielding, and protection. Also, there is no desire to reduce the effectiveness of pure classes and their ability to complete content, and overall, the system should make the content more accessible to all players.”

In other words, DDs got to address their weaknesses, while tanks and healers are pushed into buff machines.

I’m gonna be honest, and maybe y’all can help me clarify…

But I never understand when people say there is a trade-off when switching to subclassing. I get that you’re sacrificing tank and healing skill lines.

But then why are all of Hyperioxes best solo builds utilizing three 3 DPS skill lines?? Keep in mind, this is the person who solos vet dlc dungeons on hard mode for every boss.

https://hyperioxes.com/eso/solo

Clearly, there is no trade off. Subclassing into 3 DD skill lines is better than staying pure in every way, be it DPS or survivability. Pure classes are way too far behind.

I asked this exact question and even Hyperioxes said on Discord that subclassing will always be better than a pure class.

Maybe someone can change my mind… 🤷🏻‍♂️

siebenstein5b16_ESO · October 5

I appreciate the thought....
I just got disillusioned when the age-question came up

If you don't share your age, the survey ends here.

What does that mean to me?
I'm playing the game since beta, meaning I hang around here since 2013
meaning I know how to play my class, meaning I know how it feels to get castrated for the sake of pvp, screaming injustice and last but not least anything that's got nothing to do with my kind of playing the game and then being confronted with an over-uber-not-ever-getting-nerfed class called the arcanist...

I understand that your primary target is not players my age, but a group of youngsters who rule the market. I completely get your thought about oldies. But let me just tell you one thing: My age doesn't have anything to do with my playstile, desires or wishes in an mmorpg (the kind of which I played for more than 30 years now) - I wouldn't have answered any question in a different way if I was a teen or twen - which I still am (not only inside my head) but by heart.

So allow me to just state a fact: The age commiting restriction was truly *** and will lose you some dedicated players like me. (Not that you mind, I think...but still... spare us a thought, as you throw us aside for profit and commerce)

shadoza · October 5

siebenstein5b16_ESO wrote: »

I appreciate the thought....
I just got disillusioned when the age-question came up

If you don't share your age, the survey ends here.

What does that mean to me?
I'm playing the game since beta, meaning I hang around here since 2013
meaning I know how to play my class, meaning I know how it feels to get castrated for the sake of pvp, screaming injustice and last but not least anything that's got nothing to do with my kind of playing the game and then being confronted with an over-uber-not-ever-getting-nerfed class called the arcanist...

I understand that your primary target is not players my age, but a group of youngsters who rule the market. I completely get your thought about oldies. But let me just tell you one thing: My age doesn't have anything to do with my playstile, desires or wishes in an mmorpg (the kind of which I played for more than 30 years now) - I wouldn't have answered any question in a different way if I was a teen or twen - which I still am (not only inside my head) but by heart.

So allow me to just state a fact: The age commiting restriction was truly *** and will lose you some dedicated players like me. (Not that you mind, I think...but still... spare us a thought, as you throw us aside for profit and commerce)

Didn't the survey offer an option of not providing that data; like a rather not say option?
I do think age makes a difference. Not a bad difference but still a serious one.
Older players tend to have more disposable income.
Older, mature, players are more selective in making purchase choices and are less likely to follow trends. (They stay with a game longer and tend to have more product loyalty.)
Older players are less tolerant. Depending on how old, they might be used to getting a quality product for a fair price and they don't like it when something doesn't work.
Younger players are flightily and will change games and companies based on whatever influencer they are paying attention to.
Younger players settle for less, have lower standards, and tend to be more focused on instant pleasures. They are more forgiving when something doesn't work because they expect things not to work.
Younger players tend to not adapt well to changes. The tend to rely on min/max, skill weaving / rotations . . . so when something changes they do not have a path forward immediately.
Those that are transitioning between younger groups and older groups are likely a little of either or both.

I would say, even though I think age is an important demography, you should do the survey. Pick the age you want to represent if you cannot find a 'rather not say' option and focus on the meat of the survey rather than demographics.

kind_hero · October 5

After playing for 11 years, of course I am tempted by the new abilities, especially the one that everyone uses or is talking about: fatecarver.

I don't want this to be nerfed, I want other classes to have abilities this cool. When I first used it, I was farming XP fighting lots of mobs at once, and I was laughing constantly of how ridiculously fun to use was this ability. Compare the fun factor of this with sap essence from night blade. I keep playing this game because it still makes me laugh. I don't care so much about the stats anymore, I just want it to be fun, but not silly.

In my opionion, you need to ditch the least used ability of each class and come with something else, or add new class abilities which feel fresh and fun. Maybe new morphs in certain cases, I don't know.

What I also dislike a lot about the ESO classes, is that all of them play like magic heroes. I can't make a brawler/knight build that is viable and feels like a hero that doesn't have any inclination for magic. Also, there is little difference between magic schools in terms of visuals.

I would like skills like shields to be from the alteration school, and have the visuals we know from earlier games. I get it that some things are too far on the road to be changed now, but at least you are going in some direction with custom visual effects.

I want more colors or themes for visual effects, for example to have a Nocturnal inspired nightblade instead of a vampire-like one, which became so boring to me after so many years. Or a sorc that is pure fire-mage or storm.

Blackbird_V · October 6

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi everyone! We've seen some questions about our recent classes survey, and we wanted to clarify a few things around our goals for this one.

As we look to the future, a couple of our primary goals are to improve overall build viability and also address longstanding concerns and feedback related to class identity in ESO. We are in the process of putting together our long-term vision and plan for this work to share with you. Your direct experiences and feedback on ESO's classes and builds are important considerations for us as we work through this planning. It's our goal to share all of these elements together, so you have a better picture of where we are heading.

Part of the process we're going through is this classes survey, which is intended to help us gather additional input for upcoming build viability, combat feel, class identity, and some other things we're interested in learning more about. It is intentionally high level.

We hear you and understand that many of you would like to see adjustments to various abilities, and have questions about balance, build viability, hybridization, and even class relevancy in light of subclassing. Those questions and requests are absolutely a consideration and part of this work as well, but this high level planning must be completed first and this survey is just one step toward that.

While it wasn't reflected in-depth in this survey, we are considering the impact subclassing and scribing have on build viability, class identity, and overall balance. We also do recognize there are longstanding desires for boosts/bonuses for those who wish to play a pure class.

Thank you all for raising questions, and for filling out the survey.

"to improve overall build viability"

This will never be accomplished without a major overhaul to the gear system. So many gear sets are useless, regardless what you may think, and regardless to what your formulae's dictate. 100's of useless sets that are just bloat. Sets like Witchman come to mind. Like... why does it exist? Move away from stupid spreadsheets ffs.

You had a major opportunity with SkinnyCheeks, and his video on his idea for item set overhauls would honestly be the most solid foundation you could ask for to help with build diversity and viability. Just hire the guy already. He has better understanding of what the game needs as he is a human being that has played the game.

"feedback related to class identity in ESO"

You've had years of PTS feedback. Years of constant complaints. You've done nothing other than go on Twitter and say our reactions are "knee-jerk" reactions. Hybridisation butchered class identity, subclassing has annihilated it fully. Class identity will never be a thing, not at the very least as long as subclassing exists.
As for subclassing, you should seriously delete that system. It's broken, overpowered and a balance nightmare. If you buff base classes, you also buff subclassing at the same time. Considering you cannot even separate PvP and PvE balance, there ain't no way you're separating class and subclass balance.

"Part of the process we're going through is this classes survey, which is intended to help us gather additional input for upcoming build viability, combat feel, class identity, and some other things"

Again, you've had PTS cycles for this. You did not listen to any feedback, so why would you here?

ZoS, you need to remember that this is a game and you should start balancing it as such. This is the Elder Scrolls Online, not Microsoft Excel Spreadsheets. Just. STOP. SPREADSHEET. BALANCING.

LISTEN TO YOUR PLAYERS FOR ONCE!

Sarannah · October 6

Filled it in, as I play all classes it took me about an hour or so.

As some other players already mentioned, I was also surprised there wasn't a general class questionaire at the end, after filling this in for all classes. As I would like to have mentioned all classes need that one major ability to make a build around, similar to how fatecarver works for arcanist. This would bring builddiversity back.

Some ideas for major class skills similar to fatecarver functionality/build convenience:
-Templar: Puncturing strikes: Change this skill into a channeled skill and to fire each strike in a very long range cone AOE, also remove the dps damage restriction when hitting multiple enemies.
-Sorcerer: Overload: Change overload from an ultimate into a normal channeled skill with a much longer range.

And these are ideas for only two of the classes. Making these changes would give players a choice on which main attack to use, especially with subclassing active!

PS: Wasn't possible to add this idea in the survey, so I am posting it here!

mattaeus01b16_ESO · October 7

I dont know how to express the words that live in my brain into sentences that make sense. So here it goes!

Without making the hole system "Vanilla" it wont work. There will always be METAS. Weather it is in pure class form or in Sub-classing form. Much like in PvP where the more you try to even out the playing field, the worse it seems to get

Taking away the identities of the classes seems to be a miss step as well. Having an over all arch-type for the class with all its abilities and passives unchanged, then being able to pick from a small handful of choices from the other classes might have worked better.
Im a Arcanist. There for all my abilities and passives are set as that. Or at least a set base that all Arcanists get. Now Im free to slap on other abilities from other classes that I like without having the added benefits of that class other then the ability itself.

I dont know.

The point is, stripping each class down to nothing will make any choice meaningless unless you find a new way to rework the system as a whole. And then the METAs will find a way.

I personally love playing my arc. But ZoS stripped banner away from it because it was to strong? So now I play Arc on my DK.. and Sorc... and Templar...

But not Nightblades, because thats gross... (just kidding, NBs as well!)

tomofhyrule · October 7

Here’s another fun thing that we really only saw on basegame Classes that would be a fun direction to go in if ZOS ever decided to make a new one:

Role-dependent morphs for skills.

We have things like DK’s Ash Cloud that can morph to be a ground HoT or a ground DoT. DK also has Stonefist for a heal or damage. NB also has the same idea with either a damage path or a healy path.

It doesn’t fit with the current “each role needs its own line” concept we have with the DLC Classes, but it did mean that both morphs had their uses, not like most skills now where the choice is “do you want the bad version or the good version?”

I guess the closest we have in the DLC classes are those that do have totally different uses like Arcanist’s Flail/Dread (which can be debated as to whether it is OP or super OP) and Necro’s Blastbones/not-Blastbones (which is its own can of worms)

Apollosipod · October 8

What would have been a lot of fun would be to have quests associated with the classes. It would have really helped with those who desire more class identity as well as making the progress feel more earned along the way. Maybe by having you learn morphs from trainer NPCs around the world with some lore about how the class itself came to be what it is. This would also really make subclassing feel like more of an earned thing. Instead of "I followed the path of the Dragonknight and learned to wield flame and venom" we got "Have you heard of Nightblades? They use shadows to steal or assassinate people. Does that sound cool? Yeah? Well you're a shadow now. Can't even see ya."

Compelling and immersing stuff

alpha_synuclein · October 9

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi everyone! We've seen some questions about our recent classes survey, and we wanted to clarify a few things around our goals for this one.

As we look to the future, a couple of our primary goals are to improve overall build viability and also address longstanding concerns and feedback related to class identity in ESO. We are in the process of putting together our long-term vision and plan for this work to share with you. Your direct experiences and feedback on ESO's classes and builds are important considerations for us as we work through this planning. It's our goal to share all of these elements together, so you have a better picture of where we are heading.

Part of the process we're going through is this classes survey, which is intended to help us gather additional input for upcoming build viability, combat feel, class identity, and some other things we're interested in learning more about. It is intentionally high level.

We hear you and understand that many of you would like to see adjustments to various abilities, and have questions about balance, build viability, hybridization, and even class relevancy in light of subclassing. Those questions and requests are absolutely a consideration and part of this work as well, but this high level planning must be completed first and this survey is just one step toward that.

While it wasn't reflected in-depth in this survey, we are considering the impact subclassing and scribing have on build viability, class identity, and overall balance. We also do recognize there are longstanding desires for boosts/bonuses for those who wish to play a pure class.

Thank you all for raising questions, and for filling out the survey.

I would think that all this "high level planning" should be done before such balance-breaking thing like subclassing was introduced.

JaxontheUnfortunate · October 9

ESO has classes ? Could have fooled me.

siebenstein5b16_ESO · October 10

shadoza wrote: »

Didn't the survey offer an option of not providing that data; like a rather not say option?

No, it didn't - like I said, it said 'you don't give your age, survey ends here' - no other options.

siebenstein5b16_ESO · October 10

So I'll be telling you my point of view here:

Unless you're not going to nerf the Arcanist, bring it on for all the classes that were there and great in uniqueness before. Make them not only comparable but unique again, like you did with that imbearable uber-ass that takes the fun out of raiding or doing group dungeons with any other class (not wanting to be forced into subclassing and even with subclassing, but not really understanding the subclasses because they're not what was chosen initially) because of all the (arcanist)users of encounterlog dissing you all of the time after reading the logs because your damage is so poorly compared to them, taking the fun out of the game you're paying for ever since it launched and before.

I still remember your fullbodied promises to make the difference to all the other mmorpgs in providing the unique possibility to just be whatever you like with any class you identify with (especially that 'sneaky guy healing the group').... an award to the one of your team of devs or coders that still remembers the announcement vid!

It's about time to do a balancing again and think about what you did to all the classes for the sake of pvp, thus being inferior to the arcanist now. It's about time to seperate pvp from pve - for good!

Make Tamriel great again! (no irony here...)

thinkaboutit · October 11

Yelling into the abyss here but I think ZOS needs to do something drastic to get people back.

1) Get rid of or nerf subclassing
2) Nerf arcanist to the ground
3) Bring back light attack weaving
4) Make chests/sacks (trial or not) have a very low but 'chance' to drop something cool.. (random motif mounts furnishing high tier crafting mats etc)
5) give the community some free content (overland, trial, dungeons) as a lure

6) hire skinnycheeks?

shadoza · October 11

thinkaboutit wrote: »

Yelling into the abyss here but I think ZOS needs to do something drastic to get people back.

1) Get rid of or nerf subclassing
2) Nerf arcanist to the ground
3) Bring back light attack weaving
4) Make chests/sacks (trial or not) have a very low but 'chance' to drop something cool.. (random motif mounts furnishing high tier crafting mats etc)
5) give the community some free content (overland, trial, dungeons) as a lure

6) hire skinnycheeks?

These actions would cause me to leave the game not play more.
The very last thing I want is to have a so-called 'influencer' making decisions for a game that I pay to play. Not everyone is a fan.

Yudo · October 11

Suggest you look at the text boxes provided at the end of the survey because most of your questions are so isolated that often you can answer positively. You will end up with positive results that make you believe things are ok but this is so disconnected from the subclassing fiasco that is ongoing.

The magic is not in the classes anymore what you want to fix is short term is:
Subclass <> pure class
Strong skill lines <> weak skill lines

After that, feel free to go about what ever you have in mind long term for classes.

Ardriel · October 11

Since everyone uses Fatecarver and does really nice damage with it.. why are you guys begging for a nerf? I really don't get it. Everyone seems to be happy with it. When the nerf comes there will be another big outcry and whining. We need buffs for other skill lines from other classes. That's what I think. We've had enough nerfes already. And of course we need buffs for pure class builds.

alpha_synuclein · October 13

Yudo wrote: »

most of your questions are so isolated that often you can answer positively. You will end up with positive results that make you believe things are ok but this is so disconnected from the subclassing fiasco that is ongoing.

It's not a bug. It's a feature.

Kendaric · October 13

Ardriel wrote: »

Since everyone uses Fatecarver and does really nice damage with it.. why are you guys begging for a nerf? I really don't get it. Everyone seems to be happy with it. When the nerf comes there will be another big outcry and whining. We need buffs for other skill lines from other classes. That's what I think. We've had enough nerfes already. And of course we need buffs for pure class builds.

First of ... not everybody who uses Fatecarver likes to use it, but they apparently feel they have to use it to join groups.

Second, if you have one class/skill/skill line that overperforms and the six classes that perform normally, what would you do? Buff the six classes or nerf one class? In my opinion nerfing arcanist is the correct decision since that class has been overperforming since it was released and it's mainly because of that stupidly overpowered beam.

Icy_Waffles · October 13

What classes? This is a mess. I worked hard over years to build characters of every class etc with over 18 fully built out characters what’s the point of playing with this multiclassing nonsense.

Every build is the same now. It’s twice as bad as it ever was, and that’s why many have left the game.

What I think you should do instead of insane nerfs and buffs and changes, revert multiclassing, and make classes have different group utility needs to provide diversity, THEN focus on buffing etc. in an effort to keep balance.

merevie · October 14

Everything is now the same.
Everyone runs the same builds.
The unique selling point is gone.
This was something 0% of a very diverse community requested.

shadyjane62 · October 14

thinkaboutit wrote: »

Yelling into the abyss here but I think ZOS needs to do something drastic to get people back.

1) Get rid of or nerf subclassing
2) Nerf arcanist to the ground
3) Bring back light attack weaving
4) Make chests/sacks (trial or not) have a very low but 'chance' to drop something cool.. (random motif mounts furnishing high tier crafting mats etc)
5) give the community some free content (overland, trial, dungeons) as a lure

6) hire skinnycheeks?

Would like to add "get rid of the shovel" I now have to use instead of that very cool Lightning Bolt I used to wield.

BXR_Lonestar · October 14

My thoughts on classes?

Congratulations. Thanks to subclassing, you have effectively eliminated them. As fun as subclassing has been, though, IMO, it is not good for the long-term health of the game. Exponential power creep never is. And it is a change that didn't make any sense when the previous patches brought us scribing, scribing mastery scripts, and class-specific armors that were intended to (at least in theory) lean into the idea of class identity (you get unique benefits/ based on your class), while using scribing abilities to fill in any utility gaps in your build. Why start down the road of leaning into class identity just to destroy it with subclassing?

Now that the genie is out of the bottle you will never get it back in without balancing changes that are so harsh that they remove any benefit of subclassing to begin with. Either way you go, I see you upsetting someone, so the development team has kind of painted themselves into a corner.

So I'm not really sure why you want to now discuss the classes now, when for 90-95% of the decisions you make with your build, class does not really matter. Character race is a more important decision. So long as you have at least 1 of the base skill lines you want to use, your only decision is whether you want to make use of class-specific sets or try to benefit from the class mastery script, of which there are only 2-3 that are really any good. Perhaps the development team should have considered a total class re-balancing BEFORE they destroyed them instead of after.

You probably should have listened to the gaming community's concerns about subclassing BEFORE you launched it because this game was not neatly set up for "subclassing" or "multi-classing" like D&D games are. There doesn't seem to be any downside to subclassing. You can stack all the bonuses you want - whether they are for damage, healing, or tanking, without any downside to it. Ordinarily, such specialization would come with some downside to it. And subclassed characters are head and shoulders and waist above everything else out there.

To be honest, it almost feels like there is just no vision whatsoever for what this game should be in the long-term, and changes are just being made haphazardly without any end-goal in mind. And that is really frustrating.

reazea · October 14

Subclassing has made it so there aren't really any classes any longer. It's just a base to build around. There are only about 5 builds that are top tier now, regardless of base class.

Subclassing has rendered base class virtually meaningless.

Can't say nobody warned ZOS about this before it was implemented either.

fizzybeef · October 14

merevie wrote: »

Everything is now the same.
Everyone runs the same builds.
The unique selling point is gone.
This was something 0% of a very diverse community requested.

this.

In 11 years of eso i never heared someone asking for subclassing or to let this system to be like in skyrim.
Ofc some minor percentage will come out now and be like „oh wait, i have always wanted that“ but the truth is nobody really asked for it and people have warned about it and been ignored.

I think the reason they pushed through this path of destruction of the game is due they are not able to balance propper so they just made everything the same.

Unholy_Holywarrior · October 14

a good solution to the subclass/pureclass debate. make some of the more powerful skills like book blast beam and grim focus available only to pure classes, if you subclass into invisible lightning guy teleporting all over the place spamming charms, you lose book blast/grim focus/punturing strikes as a skill option.

ive worked in many trades and many fields at one time or another, and the saying is true "jack of all trades, master of none"

BXR_Lonestar · October 15

Unholy_Holywarrior wrote: »

a good solution to the subclass/pureclass debate. make some of the more powerful skills like book blast beam and grim focus available only to pure classes, if you subclass into invisible lightning guy teleporting all over the place spamming charms, you lose book blast/grim focus/punturing strikes as a skill option.

ive worked in many trades and many fields at one time or another, and the saying is true "jack of all trades, master of none"

Nah.

The good solution for subclassing is for you to be able to use the skills of a subclass line, but not the passives.

Class passives should be sticky, and you should be stuck with them regardless. But if you want to use the skills of a certain class line, you can learn those.

All the power that is present in the current rendition of subclassing is more a result of stacking passives, not abilities. Specifically, people are stacking crit damage and crit chance passives, and complementing them with good abilities. Making subclassing work with abilities only would water down that power for sure.

Renato90085 · October 15

]

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Unholy_Holywarrior wrote: »

a good solution to the subclass/pureclass debate. make some of the more powerful skills like book blast beam and grim focus available only to pure classes, if you subclass into invisible lightning guy teleporting all over the place spamming charms, you lose book blast/grim focus/punturing strikes as a skill option.

ive worked in many trades and many fields at one time or another, and the saying is true "jack of all trades, master of none"

Nah.

The good solution for subclassing is for you to be able to use the skills of a subclass line, but not the passives.

Class passives should be sticky, and you should be stuck with them regardless. But if you want to use the skills of a certain class line, you can learn those.

All the power that is present in the current rendition of subclassing is more a result of stacking passives, not abilities. Specifically, people are stacking crit damage and crit chance passives, and complementing them with good abilities. Making subclassing work with abilities only would water down that power for sure.

and ult stack,in pve ,pure nb in perfect parse last can hit 130k killer blade.
but subclass can cast dk banner with nb ult got 35% free dps buff and hit 220k killer blade