Can we finally buff Subterranean Assault

madmufffin · September 9

Originally sub assault's unique morph element was the fact it fired twice per cast. With deep fissure having that as well as double breach, I think it's about time that sub assault gets something other than being stam for its morph even if it comes at the expense of reverting the cost reduction. If we show some love to cutting dive while in the Warden code, that would also be a very welcome change.

BasP · September 9

That would be nice indeed. In one of my posts in the U47 PTS feedback thread I suggested to increase the damage of Subterranean Assault's second hit, similar to Deep Fissure, because I do feel like the skill is lacking a bit at the moment. Of course I wouldn't be against a (smaller) buff to both hits or something instead, though.

YandereGirlfriend · September 9

Auto-Poisoned would also be nice.

But it definitely needs something.

I am still also salty over the damage of Mag Shalks getting giga-nerfed years ago as compensation for the second tick, which was a change that nobody asked for or wanted.

ESO_Nightingale · September 10

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Auto-Poisoned would also be nice.

But it definitely needs something.

I am still also salty over the damage of Mag Shalks getting giga-nerfed years ago as compensation for the second tick, which was a change that nobody asked for or wanted.

yeah not gonna lie, i wish they reverted those changes.

madmufffin · September 10

Deep fissure change happened while I was on a year long break from the game, so I was so confused when I came back and it was just a lame pvp sub assault

AcadianPaladin · September 12

I find the mag morph superior in all ways and would love to see the stam morph buffed to match.

Because of the 9 second duration, I find the mag morph great on my archer to help spread out the resource demand between mag/stam. I'd love for my mages to have a comparable stam variant for the same reason. Right now my mages slot vigor as a heal to help balance stam/mag use. Growing swarm also makes for a good stam skill for magwards. Generally though, there are less good stam options available though.

NxJoeyD · September 14

I’m going to go with no on this one.

If anything, Deep Fissure needs to be adjusted, bigtime.

Subclassing gave character builds access to mechanics that are WAY too cheap in terms of opportunity cost.

NB, for example, shouldn’t have access to both Major & Minor Breach, PLUS high burst (and with crit), PLUS, the ability having no ground based AoE telegraph. … all out of ONE ability slot.

NB had access to Major Breach; but not Minor unless they committed a 5 piece set OR a pot which was subject to GCD. Plus, their access didn’t include a high burst damage with it; if a NB wanted to apply breach and damage they were subject to GCD or had to lean on a scribed skill for less damage.

And unlike other abilities like Curse, where only one can be active at a time, Scortch and morphs can be spammed all over the place.

This is one reason why Deep Fissure become so predominant in PvP, newly everyone is spamming the ability and with no ground AoE it’s unavoidable.

Subclassing enables a small handful of abilities that have way too much power and utility built into them available to builds that shouldn’t have access too all that for such a low cost.

Because it’s not realistic for everyone to subclass the same way, you’re going to end up with dynamic power imbalances more-so than before, which we’re seeing now.

Leave Subterranean alone and adjust Deep Fissure so that it only applies minor breach and also provides a visual ground based AoE; then it will behave in-line with similar abilities.

YandereGirlfriend · September 15

NxJoeyD wrote: »

I’m going to go with no on this one.

If anything, Deep Fissure needs to be adjusted, bigtime.

Subclassing gave character builds access to mechanics that are WAY too cheap in terms of opportunity cost.

NB, for example, shouldn’t have access to both Major & Minor Breach, PLUS high burst (and with crit), PLUS, the ability having no ground based AoE telegraph. … all out of ONE ability slot.

NB had access to Major Breach; but not Minor unless they committed a 5 piece set OR a pot which was subject to GCD. Plus, their access didn’t include a high burst damage with it; if a NB wanted to apply breach and damage they were subject to GCD or had to lean on a scribed skill for less damage.

And unlike other abilities like Curse, where only one can be active at a time, Scortch and morphs can be spammed all over the place.

This is one reason why Deep Fissure become so predominant in PvP, newly everyone is spamming the ability and with no ground AoE it’s unavoidable.

Subclassing enables a small handful of abilities that have way too much power and utility built into them available to builds that shouldn’t have access too all that for such a low cost.

Because it’s not realistic for everyone to subclass the same way, you’re going to end up with dynamic power imbalances more-so than before, which we’re seeing now.

Leave Subterranean alone and adjust Deep Fissure so that it only applies minor breach and also provides a visual ground based AoE; then it will behave in-line with similar abilities.

There IS a visual cue for Shalks.

NxJoeyD · September 16

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

I’m going to go with no on this one.

If anything, Deep Fissure needs to be adjusted, bigtime.

Subclassing gave character builds access to mechanics that are WAY too cheap in terms of opportunity cost.

NB, for example, shouldn’t have access to both Major & Minor Breach, PLUS high burst (and with crit), PLUS, the ability having no ground based AoE telegraph. … all out of ONE ability slot.

NB had access to Major Breach; but not Minor unless they committed a 5 piece set OR a pot which was subject to GCD. Plus, their access didn’t include a high burst damage with it; if a NB wanted to apply breach and damage they were subject to GCD or had to lean on a scribed skill for less damage.

And unlike other abilities like Curse, where only one can be active at a time, Scortch and morphs can be spammed all over the place.

This is one reason why Deep Fissure become so predominant in PvP, newly everyone is spamming the ability and with no ground AoE it’s unavoidable.

Subclassing enables a small handful of abilities that have way too much power and utility built into them available to builds that shouldn’t have access too all that for such a low cost.

Because it’s not realistic for everyone to subclass the same way, you’re going to end up with dynamic power imbalances more-so than before, which we’re seeing now.

Leave Subterranean alone and adjust Deep Fissure so that it only applies minor breach and also provides a visual ground based AoE; then it will behave in-line with similar abilities.

There IS a visual cue for Shalks.

Technically yes but it’s poor in the grand scheme of combat.

One cannot identify the AoE with an alert color like most other ground based AoE skills; and that’s a big problem with an ability like this; especially with how much more prevalent it is now.

If we look at how the ability functions as well as its current state use, yeah, the little Shalks appear momentarily but there’s not AoE indicator making it very hard to define the “area of the stupid” one doesn’t want to step in.

Unlike comparable abilities like Sorcs Curse, there’s no one cap application limit. Players can effectively carpet bomb an area and the opponents are really none the wiser as to where the whole of the area is; there’s just a momentary set of Shalks and that’s it.

IMO it’s important remember that in the current state anyone can use any ability and a Warden slotting Deep Fissure is one thing; 4 or 5 NB or Temp hybrids slotting it is a completely different thing.

It’s no surprise this ability sees such high frequency in PvP now.

AcadianPaladin · September 29

If the perceived problem with Deep Fissure is in PvP, use Battle Spirit and change it in PvP however you like. There is, however, no problem with this great skill in PvE so it should not be changed for PvE. The skill is quirky to use and 'drives' your rotation - that is enough price to pay for its several benefits. Drop any of those benefits (especially the nice damage or major breach) and I'd switch to a 'simpler' skill that does not require timing.

mague · September 29

it has to go off on the first weapon damage. Skill or melee weapon or bow damage.

MincMincMinc · October 1

It could make sense to split up the monopoly deep fissure has on breach. Having 9k pen guaranteed on one massive aoe skill is crazy. The stam less bursty version could do the major and the mag burst skill could do the minor.

Just a little comparison because I was interested. No wonder we dont see curse in meta pvp anymore.

current Deep fissure

2700 mag
1.17 scaling skill after 3s
1.627 scaling after 6s
8922 pen (13.5% damage done in pvp) (17.84% in pve)
140msquared AoE
- small heal
- 0.5ult/sec
- 20% regen (even on a meta barebones bearhaunch Imperial build this still gives 244mag+260stam regen)
- 5% crit damage (based on 40% crit chance this is worth 2% damage done or 1320 pen in pvp

current Haunting Curse

2970 mag - 371 restore
1.35 scaling after 3.5s
1.35 scaling after 8.5s (deep fissure averages 1.4 in a shorter window and with big potential for burst kills)
no pen
78.5msquared AoE
- reduce cost of a 200 ult saves 30 ult base gen time of 67s down to 57s saving 10s.......equivalent to 0.53ult/sec
- 5% mit when active or 3300 armor
- 5% max stats (1k if you have 20k max stats........in pvp this is worth about 1/2 the damage gains of a pen line so about 744pen ish)

CameraBeardThePirate · October 1

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

I’m going to go with no on this one.

If anything, Deep Fissure needs to be adjusted, bigtime.

Subclassing gave character builds access to mechanics that are WAY too cheap in terms of opportunity cost.

NB, for example, shouldn’t have access to both Major & Minor Breach, PLUS high burst (and with crit), PLUS, the ability having no ground based AoE telegraph. … all out of ONE ability slot.

NB had access to Major Breach; but not Minor unless they committed a 5 piece set OR a pot which was subject to GCD. Plus, their access didn’t include a high burst damage with it; if a NB wanted to apply breach and damage they were subject to GCD or had to lean on a scribed skill for less damage.

And unlike other abilities like Curse, where only one can be active at a time, Scortch and morphs can be spammed all over the place.

This is one reason why Deep Fissure become so predominant in PvP, newly everyone is spamming the ability and with no ground AoE it’s unavoidable.

Subclassing enables a small handful of abilities that have way too much power and utility built into them available to builds that shouldn’t have access too all that for such a low cost.

Because it’s not realistic for everyone to subclass the same way, you’re going to end up with dynamic power imbalances more-so than before, which we’re seeing now.

Leave Subterranean alone and adjust Deep Fissure so that it only applies minor breach and also provides a visual ground based AoE; then it will behave in-line with similar abilities.

There IS a visual cue for Shalks.

There is for the first hit, but not the second. There is no visual cue while the second hit is primed; the glow at the Warden's feet disappears after the first hit happens.

Mind you, if you play enough you get a feel for when the second one comes out, but there should still be a visual cue for it.

NxJoeyD · October 2

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

I’m going to go with no on this one.

If anything, Deep Fissure needs to be adjusted, bigtime.

Subclassing gave character builds access to mechanics that are WAY too cheap in terms of opportunity cost.

NB, for example, shouldn’t have access to both Major & Minor Breach, PLUS high burst (and with crit), PLUS, the ability having no ground based AoE telegraph. … all out of ONE ability slot.

NB had access to Major Breach; but not Minor unless they committed a 5 piece set OR a pot which was subject to GCD. Plus, their access didn’t include a high burst damage with it; if a NB wanted to apply breach and damage they were subject to GCD or had to lean on a scribed skill for less damage.

And unlike other abilities like Curse, where only one can be active at a time, Scortch and morphs can be spammed all over the place.

This is one reason why Deep Fissure become so predominant in PvP, newly everyone is spamming the ability and with no ground AoE it’s unavoidable.

Subclassing enables a small handful of abilities that have way too much power and utility built into them available to builds that shouldn’t have access too all that for such a low cost.

Because it’s not realistic for everyone to subclass the same way, you’re going to end up with dynamic power imbalances more-so than before, which we’re seeing now.

Leave Subterranean alone and adjust Deep Fissure so that it only applies minor breach and also provides a visual ground based AoE; then it will behave in-line with similar abilities.

There IS a visual cue for Shalks.

There is for the first hit, but not the second. There is no visual cue while the second hit is primed; the glow at the Warden's feet disappears after the first hit happens.

Mind you, if you play enough you get a feel for when the second one comes out, but there should still be a visual cue for it.

For sure. It becomes especially bobbins when you’ve got 4 & 5 people laying them down like carpet bombs; it’s nearly impossible to work out where the “badlands” are.

If it’s going to do big damage, fine, let it also have a minor debuff and telegraph. It’s not standard practice in ESO to have damage + Maj & Minor debuff all in one ability without a GCD pacing element.

Radiate77 · October 3

Maybe they can give it back the stun that the skills used to have when Warden first came out.