Share Your Thoughts on ESO's Classes with Us

RebornV3x · September 26

Gave my 2 cents knowing ZOS nobody will probably read it but I was bored today.

Leighlaa · September 26

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

Just adding my 2c that will ultimately be ignored as usual but to echo what a few others have already posted; I find it interesting that there is a survey on Classes all of a sudden when, thanks to sub-classing if we're still calling it that, Classes in ESO are effectively dead. Poached out of existence, just like the Bosmer. With predictable negative consequences to the overall environment. So...Feedback collected. Months pass. Then what?

Absolutely nothing will happen. Another commenter mentioned ESO whiplash... and that is the best we can hope for, some sort of reversal of this hated system that was released too early (if it should have been released AT ALL). So the BEST that could happen would be some sort of nerf or removal of a system that nobody wanted to begin with.

This game has lost its identity; it is grasping at straws to find it again.

Dino-Jr · September 26

All my feedback is animation, dot duration, or passive related.

Sorc: Don't punish players for using 3 of the 5 skills which arent summons. Update all the pet 3d models/animations and disable pets in cities. Clean up animations in general to flow better with weapons and other skills.

Warden: Remove the bright line between Betty Netch and the player its massively visually distracting makes the character look stupid and isnt used because of how bad it looks. Otherwise add a morph for dive with a longer duration.

DragonKnight: Update the Molten Whip animation to flow better with other skills, cool skill that looks stupd and choppy so it doesnt get used as much as a result. Probably the most "complete" class of all of them at least in terms of how everything looks, feels, and fits together.

Templar: Remove the Taunt from one of the morphs of the charge ability. Its unusable in group play after the recent change. Dont mess with puncturing sweeps and remove the cap on what it can hit.

Nightblade: Like templar its one of the most "complete" feeling class doesnt need much change tbh. Main request is smooth out the stutter at the very end of the dash ability. Also please update the Grim Focus attack animation so its less choppy, skill is great but its animation flows very very poorly in rotation with basically anything.

Arcanist: Class is pretty great. The change that is needed most is to have an option to move the Crux Visuals to above the Skill Bar for applicable skills rather than floating around the player model. I guarantee you I am not the only player annoyed by the way the triangles look who avoided playing the class at first as a result. Dont ever remove the tentacular dread burst attack ability as a solid alternative to beam. Arcanist is most fun played without beam as a "burst" damage class. Its sweet.

Necro: Increase dot duration for grave yard aoe ability and add a morph for blast bones with a longer cooldown so its less frantically activated. Beyond that similar to Betty Netch remove the absurd visual line connecting the player and the corpse, that ability is never used because it looks so stupid.

SolidBeast · September 26

Finedaible wrote: »

Warframe may have a balance problem right now, but the amount of communication that Digital Extremes has with its player base is honestly leagues beyond what I have ever seen with Zenimax, and I think they could take notes from how they engage with their community over there.

I brought this up to Jessica on one of the livestreams and she commented that she wasn't familiar but would look into Digital Extremes. Whether that happened or not, who knows. But they could learn A LOT from DE, especially Rebecca Ford, on how to communicate and engage (and hype up) the fanbase. I've been playing both games for 10 years and it's literally night and day. How other studios aren't furiously taking notes, I will never understand. There is a reason Warframe is so beloved and huge.

Jaimeh · September 27

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Other class skill lines need to be brought up to a standard people want to use. They need options that will feel good to use in fights. Because regardless if they are doing what you want on some spreadsheet, they feel completely awful and tons of players dislike using them.

That was exactly what I wrote in my thoughts about the arcanist: that skills shouldn't be nerfed in reponse but that other skills should be brought to par. I mentioned class spammables for instance that could use a heal and an AoE component that flail has, without the players having to resort to something like the scribed skill travelling knife because they don't have other good options when they want to play an non-arc class as a pure class. Having said that, I'm afraid it's not that simple: arc also synergizes well with Velothi, which is very strong, and saves them a slot too for an extra skill, compared to other playstyles, so in reality it won't be a case of them just making class spammables or semi-spammable skills as strong as flail/fatecarver, but it would be start to at least have more competitive options than the beam playstyle. Anyway, tl:dr: I agree, but I don't realistically that they will be able to do this (and that's not even accounting for PvP, which is another whole balancing nightmare if they start buffing other things).

Reverb · September 27

Classes don’t matter anymore, and I think they should. Multi classing is so demonstrably stronger than any pure class, with no tradeoff, that there is no such thing as class identity.

I didn’t see a good place to say that in the survey.

Asdara · September 27

We provide feedback again and again, but its ALWAYS ignored.
I'll post here the feedback i made in regard of sorc :

The Sorcerer class suffers from a lack of thematic coherence and outdated mechanics, rendering it one of the least compelling choices for players seeking a distinct and engaging playstyle.

Initially envisioned as a master of lightning magic, the Sorcerer fails to deliver on this promise. The class's abilities are NOT predominantly based on shock damage, and only a handful of skills truly embody this elemental theme. The majority of the skill line deviates into areas like crowd control and utility, which, dilute the class's identity and fail to capitalize on its potential as a lightning mage. This thematic inconsistency is further exacerbated by the class sets, which often lack synergy with the Sorcerer's core abilities, leading to suboptimal performance and a disjointed gameplay experience.

The Dark Magic skill line, intended to provide support and control options, is particularly problematic. Instead of enhancing the Sorcerer's role as a formidable magic user, it introduces crowd control abilities that feel out of place and offer limited utility. This misalignment with the class's intended role leaves players uncertain about whether the Sorcerer is meant to function as a tank, healer, or damage dealer, further muddling its identity.

The Daedric Summoning line, another cornerstone of the Sorcerer's abilities, is equally disappointing. The summoned creatures are visually unappealing, with designs reminiscent of early PlayStation 1 graphics, and lack the depth and interactivity expected from a pet-based system. This approach clashes with the Sorcerer's identity, as the class was not designed to rely heavily on pets, unlike the Necromancer, which is more thematically suited for such a role.

In contrast, the Necromancer class, despite its potential for pet-based gameplay, falls short in delivering a satisfying summoning experience. The absence of permanent undead minions and the lack of thematic cohesion with necromantic abilities leave players desiring a more immersive and consistent experience. This misalignment suggests that the Necromancer should have been a more fitting class for pet-based gameplay, but the current design choices have led to a diluted and incoherent class identity.

The introduction of the Arcanist class has further complicated the class landscape. The Arcanist's beam-centric damage model has become the dominant DPS strategy, overshadowing other classes and diminishing their unique identities. This shift has led to a homogenization of gameplay, where the majority of players opt for the Arcanist's beam build, sidelining the diverse playstyles that were once a hallmark of ESO.

To address these issues, a comprehensive overhaul of the Sorcerer class is necessary. This should include a reimagining of the Dark Magic and Daedric Summoning lines to better align with the Sorcerer's identity as a master of lightning magic. Introducing more shock-based abilities, enhancing the visual and functional aspects of summoned creatures, and ensuring that class sets synergize effectively with the Sorcerer's core abilities would help restore thematic coherence and gameplay satisfaction. Additionally, reevaluating the Necromancer's design to incorporate permanent undead minions and a more cohesive necromantic theme would provide players with a more immersive and fulfilling experience.

Dax_Draconis · September 27

Loving my Nightblade that's subclassed with Arcanist and Templar. I haven't had this much fun with my NB in years. The addition of Fatecarver to my stamblade makes the class feel powerful again in more difficult content, and without having to get sweaty doing a complicated rotation. Please don't ruin it now.

Jaimeh · September 27

Dax_Draconis wrote: »

Loving my Nightblade that's subclassed with Arcanist and Templar. I haven't had this much fun with my NB in years. The addition of Fatecarver to my stamblade makes the class feel powerful again in more difficult content, and without having to get sweaty doing a complicated rotation. Please don't ruin it now.

How many NB skills are you actively using in that build? Do you just have them there to passively buff the arc skills? Because then it's not really a NB build (and it's one of my issues with subclassing right now: the assassination line has become a passive buff to flail and the arc/templar beams).

diamondo · September 27

I’ve done the survey and I gotta say it’s nice to see developers taking an interest.

Main issues PvP

What I will say is with most the questions I felt a need to caviet each with they were good before subclassing.

All my skills have lost a lost of power on dk my two main dots do little with everyone running on demand cleanses

I said before sub classing was a bad idea for the game but honestly I hoped it would work as players were given no choice in it, now the game is haemorrhaging players so many people I knew and saw about I no longer see play or have left the game

My main suggestion is get rid of it completely, “flogging a dead horse” won’t get you anywhere.

But I appreciate that won’t happen what needs to be done is pure class players get a third skill morph that counteracts the clear imbalance they face in combat

DarkReplica · September 27

When filling in the form I didnt know it wouldnt ask for feedback on classes you dont regularly play. So I did play a bit of arcanist to try it out, but I just don't like the playstyle (especially how the beam doesnt really require a lot of thought), so I didnt mark it as class I play, but now I couldnt give feedback on it.

I do very much appreciate the interest taken by the developers and how they ask for feedback, so I would like to give my feedback on arcanist here in that case. (since I couldnt change my survey anymore)

The concept of arcanist is cool and its visuals are too. The idea behind crux and the interaction with skills and passives are cool and an interesting playstyle.
Its healing capabilites arent amazing but it suffices.
Its tanking capabilities are very strong all within 1 skill line. Especially with subclassing this one skill line makes tanking rather easy when combining it with other skill lines.
It's damaging capabilites completely outshine other classes. Already before subclassing, and even more now it just wins over all other classes. Also there is no barely any situations where beam is not just a great skill. Its great at hitting big groups of enemies, but its still strong enough to be the best skill to hit a single target boss. I personally really dislike that this is where the meta is going right now. You can try and come with all kind of cool concepts and builds for different situations, but every time it gets outshined by the exact same arcanist skills (with its subclassing meta build around it). There are even some (trial) fights where the best strategies just force your dds into all going to arcanist, since the beam reach and melting capabilites make it much easier.

I like the uniqueness of arcanist. I like the crux concept and the apocrypha kind of visuals. I just dont like the damage skill lines that feel very basic but strong and not really challenging.

Aylish · September 27

You should have asked about what classes matter before you broke the classes system down to scriptures and IA sets.

All I could really answer was „my pure class is useless now and I hate subclassing the way that it is right now“.

The multiple choice questions where all about „what is a class missing?“ and „what is a class good at?“. That sounded like an effort to balance classes. But there are no real classes anymore to balance. You basically have a system now where every single class skill tree needs to be balanced. The class where it belongs to doesn‘t matter at all now.

ceruulean · September 27

At this point, instead of skill lines, we need skill trees. Make there be prerequisites and opportunity costs if you want to access certain skills.

AzuraFan · September 27

For me, someone who doesn't worry about DPS and meta builds and still uses a pure class, the worst thing about subclassing is that it removes class identity. One of the questions was about whether the class had a clear inspiration. Well, sure, it used to, but that doesn't matter now that any class can use any skill line. For example, it used to be that if you saw someone with a bear, you knew it was a warden. You saw someone using jabs, you knew it was a templar. Now, who cares? Everything's the same, bland mush and you have no idea what class someone is. Doesn't matter.

Also, there was nowhere to talk about the experience of being in a pug, and having someone with beam and obviously running a meta build, blowing through the dungeon pretty much by themselves, making everyone else feel like useless tag-alongs. It's not fun. Sure, sometimes there's a stronger member in the pug, but it used to mean that the boss went down a little, just a little, quicker than normal, and you probably weren't going to wipe. It's absolutely ridiculous how fast a single player can now melt a boss in a normal dungeon, especially the base game ones.

My fear is that rather than doing something sensible to try to correct the mess ZOS has created, they'll be like, okay, we'll give dungeon bosses another 3 million health each so they don't melt so fast, or we'll add more mechanics to all the base game bosses to artificially stretch the fight out. It's not the bosses that are the problem. It's the subclassing mess.

So for me, puttering around in overland zones by myself is still fine. Subclassing doesn't matter there. But group play has become less fun. Can't tell what class someone is. Feel useless when one player with beam can obliterate everything on their own. This does NOT encourage me to group more often.

I wish they'd just remove subclassing and try again with a more thought-out, tested system. But since they're not going to do that, they need to make subclassing a real decision because there are real penalties for doing it. Subclassing should make the player stronger in one area and weaker in others.

alenae1b14_ESO · September 27

Hope you read my survey answers!

nightstrike · September 27

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

This is the official discussion thread for, "Share Your Thoughts on ESO's Classes with Us"

Hi all. We know a lot of you have questions about the long term plan for classes and combat. We're looking to learn more about your experiences with ESO's classes, including class identity, visuals, abilities, and pain points. You can submit your feedback through the provided survey link in the article. The survey is open to any and all ESO players and will be available until October 3rd.

Thanks all!

Click here for a direct link to the survey.

And once again, you have crafted a survey where the option to not disclose your age bracket ends the survey immediately. And once again, AGE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PLAYER OPINION.

Please hire a better market research firm.

Dax_Draconis · September 27

Jaimeh wrote: »

Dax_Draconis wrote: »

Loving my Nightblade that's subclassed with Arcanist and Templar. I haven't had this much fun with my NB in years. The addition of Fatecarver to my stamblade makes the class feel powerful again in more difficult content, and without having to get sweaty doing a complicated rotation. Please don't ruin it now.

How many NB skills are you actively using in that build? Do you just have them there to passively buff the arc skills? Because then it's not really a NB build (and it's one of my issues with subclassing right now: the assassination line has become a passive buff to flail and the arc/templar beams).

Incap, Killer's, and Relentless from the Assassination skill line. I still use my ultimate and switch from using the irrationally hated Arc beam to Killer's Blade when it is time to execute. So, no it isn't a pure NB build, it is a subclassed NB build. But I do pretty much the same on my pure NB but with a more complicated and less effective rotation because I don't have access to anything like the Arc beam with it.

FatnissEverdeen1 · September 27

Casual-ish player here

I like ESO's class identities, and styling has been a cool addition for customizing class aesthetics. One problem I've had with classes for a long time is the visual effects of active skills, which make role-playing a non-magical warrior feel kind of impossible. The visual effects are great for mages and spellswords, but they make non-magic/low-magic concepts too magical.

I know I could just choose a bunch of weapon skills, but then I wouldn't have much class identity...

In ESO, we're all mages really. I'd like to see more low-magic possibilities. The following could accommodate my desires (the list is not ranked):
- A martialist class
- New skill morphs (for class or weapon skills)
- New class skills
- New skill styles
- Class adoption mechanics for weapon skills, so they can interact with class passives
- Maybe sets that accomplish the suggestion above (I'd prefer if my set choice was independent of it)

ESO is excellent with character customization. I'd like more possibilities for low-magic characters.

oscarovegren · September 27

Balance the skill trees.

All skill trees should have equal amount of passives applying to all damage/healing/survival.

Right now ardent flame has so specific passives for only that skill line. Arcanist, templar and nightblades have skill lines which gives more general bonuses like crit, pen, damage done, spell/weapon dmg and so on which effect all damage. Warden is also a victim of this which makes everything else than frost damage a lot worse than on any other class.

Change volatile armor to scale of weapon/spell damage as before. Hardened armor can stay as a health based morph.

Balance relentless focus and bound armaments. Right now both morphs of grim focus are straight up improvements over bound armaments and add even better passives from the skill tree on top of that.

Anumaril · 10:42AM

Still desperately hoping we get a Necromancer class rework to make minions actually worth a damn. For years I hoped we'd get a Necromancer class and the one we got was so lacklustre it nearly killed my interest in the game. The only thing that kept me going was the hope that if they ever released spellcrafting I could just make my own skeletal minion spells, but then Scribing came and ended up being equally lacklustre and super restrictive with what you could make. The most I can hope for now is that they release skins for existing abilities so I can make the Clannfear or Warden Bear summon a (humanoid) skeleton, but I doubt that will ever happen.

I thought Subclassing would at least open up the doors for playing this game like a proper Elder Scrolls title, yet even that didn't end up happening with how restrictive they made the system (I'm well aware a lot of people feel the complete opposite: that it's too unrestricted, but I disagree). If I want to build a dark sorcerer character that uses Necromancer abilities and borrows from the Daedra Summoning and Dark Magic skill lines, I literally can't because I have to give up half my interesting Necromancer abilities to even have those other Sorcerer skill lines active. It feels suffocating, like you can see what you want to create right on the horizon yet it's not possible to ever reach.

On top of all that, swapping between Subclassed builds feels clunky. Before I just used an addon to swap my abilities/gear between my "necromancer/dark wizard" build, an "assassin/stealth" build, or a "warrior knight" build. Subclassing definitely gives a lot more options for fleshing out each of those build fantasies (barring the above-mentioned restrictions), but makes swapping between them a nightmare. Instead of being able to do it on the fly, I've now got to run all the way back to my player home that has a build station to swap it there. And if I unlocked any Champion Points/skills/morphs/etc while playing with one build, I've now got to re-apply that every. single. time. I swap builds to keep them all up to date. It's exhausting and clunky.

Honestly I haven't played the game in many months, but a Necromancer revamp would definitely renew a lot of passion, even if Subclassing remains sub-par and clunky (at that point it's better not even to engage with the system). Crossing my fingers that ZOS releases a follow-up article with that they plan on doing based on this survey so I know whether to keep my hopes up or not.

Ezhh · 10:50AM

Why exactly do you need my age for this? If I am above or below your ideal intended age bracket, does that mean my responses get ignored?

Personally I don't know why you need a survey to see the problems. Go look at the sea of fatecarvers in ESO Logs and you learn everything about PvE damage dealers that you need.

Pixiepumpkin · 11:59AM

Subclassing absolutely killed the game for my wife and I. Obviously I can only speak for myself. I am only posting here becasue I enjoy Elder Scrolls Online but neither of us have touched the game not long after the subclassing update. When we think about coming back we think of the new homes you have added or cosmetics, things to flesh out our characters even more...and then we remember subclassing, and how those characters lost their identity, that there is nothing special about them anymore.....we just get immediately turned off. It's that bad and we told you this.

IMO, the only fix that is going to put this game back on the right track is to completely reverse subclassing. It was a mistake, we told you it was a mistake. You would have been better off coming out and telling the community that internal shakeups with the company have resulted in the inability to release a good amount of content this year instead of using old systems in a "new" way (subclassing) for this years big content feature.

mdjessup4906 · 1:12PM

You gotta wonder why they didnt put this survey out *before* they released sub/multi classing.

And related im sure, Why do they keep making sweeping changes then analyzing data that appears to be several patches old thinking its gonna tell them a damn thing?

Draecke · 3:02PM

imho subclassing destroyed the class identity...

Mizael · 3:02PM

Ratzkifal wrote: »

It's good that you are putting out a survey and this time around I think you are doing a good job promoting that survey in the relevant places. The only improvement in that regard would be if you sent a system mail to players ingame with a link to this survey, but so far so good. It's a step in the right direction.

Unfortunately I can't give much praise to the contents of the survey. Rating effectiveness to play DPS? When all of us can just subclass Arcanist? What even are "classes"? Try explaining to a new player what a class is in this game post-subclassing and you'll quickly understand the trouble you have caused. All they are is the class mastery script you have, the two class sets from Infinite Archive and which skill lines comprise the trio of skill lines from which you can use more than one of while subclassing. Everything else is subject to change. In other words, there is no "classes" anymore.
You should have made this exact survey before you pushed subclassing live. Now all the results you are going to get from this is a mixed bag from people who will evaluate their class while taking subclassing into consideration and people who answer the question based on just the 3 starting skill lines for each class. You poisoned your own data!

I can only say, keep it up with the communication. If you are honest about it, the game will eventually get back on track.

This, it's pointless having a survey that doesn't take into account that pure classes are over for efficiency, it's more about skill line vs skill line.

TheValkyn · 4:29PM

This thread is months late… You’ve already killed ESO.

SkaiFaith · 5:05PM

Feedback given.
I'll add what I just wrote in another thread:
"I would rollback classes.
That way subclassing wouldn't even be a thing anymore - anyone could choose any skill line to equip, mix and match how they like.
Further more: Zos could add new skill lines without worrying of creating a theme for 3 lines at a time."

Elvenheart · 5:27PM

I would like them to add some new and interesting skill lines we can use to create our own classes.

Edited to add: I do wish they had never called it Subclassing, Multi-classing really seems more accurate.

ArchMikem · 8:30PM

Tariq9898 wrote: »

More incentives for pure class builds. This’ll add more diversity and reduce gatekeeping. Right now, everyone wants beam DPS and DK/Warden/Arc tanks.

The ArcDenSorc, if you will. Ruining PvP and making Dungeons feel like Delves.

CapitanPiluso · 9:56PM

Honestly, I tried to complete the survey three times at different times, but I gave up. The questions and answer options are poorly designed, irrelevant, or impossible to answer. I know creating good surveys is difficult. And I appreciate the effort. But unfortunately, this survey is unusable in its current form.