(BUG) Reflective Scale expenses reflected spell's cost

guillaume.trudelub17_ESO · May 2014

Tested with Dragon Fire Scale morph of Reflective Scale (DK).

I do not remember this always being the case, it seems that it was recently broken after a patch, but Reflective Scale expenses the cost of EVERY ability that is reflected. This was tested with friends from another alliance in a very controlled combat situation specifically designed to verify this issue. The tests were repeated several times with various types of projectiles. Nightblade siphon abilities, Sorcerer Crystal Shards and various bow attacks were all reflected. Every single one of them that has a cost caused the Dragon Knight himself to expense this cost. Reflected 3 "Snipe", WITHOUT BLOCKING, on my magicka based DK caused me to go from 100% stamina to 0% stamina. Each reflected snipe took away ~450 stamina. The same is true for Crystal Shards, Poison Arrow and the red siphon NB ability, which took away stamina or magicka according to their cost.

Xsorus · May 2014

I've been wondering why my stamina and magicka vanished.

Bashev · May 2014

I have the same issues

.

Mephos · May 2014

no issue, its called balance .. no fix needed

Bashev · May 2014

Do all reflective skills in the game work in this way now?

Brasseurfb16_ESO · May 2014

Bashev wrote: »

Do all reflective skills in the game work in this way now?

Nope, the Templars Eclipse reflects every spells casted by the target back without any additional magicka cost, and the Sorcerers Ball of Lightning absorbs every spells without any additional cost either.

Niffo · May 2014

guillaume.trudelub17_ESO wrote: »

Tested with Dragon Fire Scale morph of Reflective Scale (DK).

I do not remember this always being the case, it seems that it was recently broken after a patch, but Reflective Scale expenses the cost of EVERY ability that is reflected. This was tested with friends from another alliance in a very controlled combat situation specifically designed to verify this issue. The tests were repeated several times with various types of projectiles. Nightblade siphon abilities, Sorcerer Crystal Shards and various bow attacks were all reflected. Every single one of them that has a cost caused the Dragon Knight himself to expense this cost. Reflected 3 "Snipe", WITHOUT BLOCKING, on my magicka based DK caused me to go from 100% stamina to 0% stamina. Each reflected snipe took away ~450 stamina. The same is true for Crystal Shards, Poison Arrow and the red siphon NB ability, which took away stamina or magicka according to their cost.

Why is Snipe being reflected? Reflective Scale says spell projectles only.

Xsorus · May 2014

Cause its Poison damage with some specs

Xsorus · May 2014

Actually I can't say cause its poison damage either

Cause Flying Blade will get reflected, along with a few other abilities.

Niffo · May 2014

Eclipse doesn't reflect it either, and thats single target spells. So Reflective Scales is reflecting more than its supposed.

ThatHappyCat · May 2014

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Do all reflective skills in the game work in this way now?

Nope, the Templars Eclipse reflects every spells casted by the target back without any additional magicka cost, and the Sorcerers Ball of Lightning absorbs every spells without any additional cost either.

Eclipse can be CC broken and is much less useful against multiple enemies (though it also works on single target non-projectiles, not that there's that many of them). Ball of Lightning absorbs but doesn't reflect.

Neither are as powerful as Reflective Scales.

Niffo · May 2014

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Eclipse can be CC broken and is much less useful against multiple enemies (though it also works on single target non-projectiles, not that there's that many of them). Ball of Lightning absorbs but doesn't reflect.

Neither are as powerful as Reflective Scales.

You can also be immune to Eclipse with the CC immunity buff and Immovable.

guillaume.trudelub17_ESO · May 2014

Reflective scale is not powerful against several people, at least not with this current issue. It got broken in one of the last few patches, a few weeks ago. Now, if you use reflective scale against 10ish people, you INSTANTLY lose all your magicka and stamina and you end up way worse than if you hadn't used it at all.

Niffo · May 2014

guillaume.trudelub17_ESO wrote: »

Reflective scale is not powerful against several people, at least not with this current issue. It got broken in one of the last few patches, a few weeks ago. Now, if you use reflective scale against 10ish people, you INSTANTLY lose all your magicka and stamina and you end up way worse than if you hadn't used it at all.

This is probably one of the few bugs that are beneficial to the game, since Reflective Scale is so powerful without it. It reflects all projectiles so you can't even use stamina based ranged attacks against the Dragonknight which forces you to enter melee range, where a Dragonknight is unmatched by any class.

Halrloprillalar · May 2014

does it reflect daedric curse? I haven't seen it get reflected, but maybe the timing was off

ArRashid · May 2014

Now that is really, really bad.
I was hoping to use it, but since it already costs crapload of magicka to cast, it didn't seem worth it (and I have no place for it on my bar, thanks to *** Inner Light), but with this bug it sounds like "I give up" button.. well, for PvP anyway. I hope it works in PvE.

Anyway, I guess all "ranged" abilities are spells - including all Bow abilities. Just light/heavy attacks are not reflected I guess.

Bashev · May 2014

Do all morphs of the skill have this problem? Do all DKs have this problem because I see a lot of DKs in Cyrodiill who use this skill in mass pvp and I assume that they do not loose any stamina or magicka from reflects.

demonlkojipub19_ESO · May 2014

I was just thinking about trying out reflective scale for the first time too...

From what's said here it has 2 bugs. Reflecting stuff causes you to spend the MP/Stam cost of the reflected attack, and it reflects projectiles that are not spells.

And of course, the DK haters come to express their love for this bug. Love all bugs/glitches/exploits that are beneficial to you!

Seriously tho. I was planning on trying out the Reflective Plate morph to offer protection against spells that can't be reflected. Did the bugs appear with the skill non-morphed?

guillaume.trudelub17_ESO · May 2014

PvE monsters have no cost to cast their abilities. It works fine in PvE. But a lot of boss projectiles cannot be reflected. Some can (VR Fungal Grotto final boss has some reflectable attacks).

No it does not reflect Daedric Curse. Your best defense against Daedric curse if you are an amateur of duels is Harness Magicka (morph of annulment, or simply annulment or its other morph, does wonder against velocious curse and you have 3 seconds to react and cast your shield).

People who use this ability against masses in Cyrodiil WILL lose stamina and magicka, and you'll see less and less DK use it as they realize what the hell is nuking their resource bars. This is a recent problem. It wasn't like this at launch. In 1v1 it's still good but not great (pretty much good against crystal fragment spam and bad against snipe, since stamina is precious), but use it against more than 2-3 people and you'll end up worse than if you hadn't use it at all. They might be backing their reflective scale with a following banner cast to replenish their resource.

Baphomet · May 2014

This could explain why I've heard so many guildies saying: "what ability is it that instantly makes all your magicka and stamina go away"? We have not been able to discern the cause of this (supposed) glitch but I think we have the explanation here.

Here's another bug for list @ZoS

Bashev · June 2014

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Any info for this bug?

monkeymystic · June 2014

This bug is making the ability useless. Stopped using it on my DK alt as it just drains all magicka/stamina to zero..

I think Eclipse on my templar is much better as it lasts longer and also dont suffer from this bug.

ZOS gonna fix this bug soon? Its been ingame for over a month, rendering the ability useless.

demonlkojipub19_ESO · June 2014

they apparently only care about doing bug fixing for nb and templar. Bugs for dk eill remain until they finish nerfing the class to oblivion.
Lack of and acknowlegement of this bug by now can attest to that.

"Oh good, one dk skill we neednt bother with. It sucks anyways"

Obscure · June 2014

This is an interesting "bug". It's hard to comprehend how this skill would draw the cost of the reflected spell from the Dragonknight without an additional line of code to specifically make the skill function as such. It's worth noting Defensive Posture does not do this (as far as I can tell) and subsequently also doesn't reflect every projectile, only spells and destro basic attacks. Perhaps the coding it different in more than one way, but I'm not entirely convinced it's not working as intended. Granting I've been running Dragon Fire Scale for quite awhile (ever since I could unlock it the skill has not once left my bar all the way to VR11) and haven't been noticeably debilitated by reflecting projectiles while using it. Granted the bulk of the rejected attacks tend to be basic attacks or attacks coming from NPC's, but I think it may be a deliberate attempt to have a risk/reward tied to the skill.

Unless we get an official word from someone @ZOS , my opinion will remain on the fence in its regard.

Armitas · June 2014

^I have wondered the same thing for the same reasons.

demonlkojipub19_ESO · June 2014

yea but reflective scale only lasts 4 seconds, Defensive posture lasts 30 and you can forget about it until it wears off or you reflect something. Its something you can use before you even get into battle to prevent a ranged attack ambush. you cant do that with scales, its only for the heat of battle, and it costs more in magica than posture does in stamina. If they really intended on the skill draining causing the reflected spells cost to also drain from the dragon knight, then they need to come say its working as intended. There has been silence for a very long time on this.

Snit · June 2014

guillaume.trudelub17_ESO wrote: »

if you use reflective scale against 10ish people, you INSTANTLY lose all your magicka and stamina and you end up way worse than if you hadn't used it at all.

If 10 people cast at you, and you instantly lose all magicka/ stamina, how are you worse off? Without reflective scale, you'd be dead.

Bashev · June 2014

I won't be dead if 10 players cast on me and I hold block. I can hold them for more than 30 seconds with potions and skills. If I cast reflective scale I am dead because I cannot block without resources. Of course if I am alone eventually I will die without killing anyone of them. But if I have a backup who can attack them while I am taking their attention, this is a different story. Also if all of them cast impulse I will be dead too, because it is unblockable and that is what the "balls (trains)" do.

james_vestbergb16_ESO · June 2014

Ye this needs attention from developers, loosing all ur resources is not ok. Has there been any word at all that they even know abt it?

And its quite obvious its not working as intended seeing as the tooltip not even hints at something remotely of this sort.

Can we atleast get a moderator saying something abt this?

james_vestbergb16_ESO · June 2014

Really, still not a word on this? Could someone from Zenimax make a statement about weather or not you even know about this?

ThyIronFist · June 2014

Yeah, this is pathetic. I think it's actually broken, because today I actually noticed that my Reflective Scales were not reflecting bow attacks. This is utter bollocks.