Deciding which skills. Tank subclass

LittlePinkDot · September 17

So I'm refreshing my pure Arcanist tank and have Subclassed her into the Winters Embrace skill line.
I really loved the rune of displacement skill from Herald of the tome skill line, but the rest of the skill line isn't really doing much for me as a tank. So I wanted to replace it with Frozen Device+ Dark convergence set so I can get a similar pull.

Here's what im thinking so far.

Runic embrace
Rune of the colourless pool
Elemental blockade
Polar wind
Frozen Device

Gibbering shelter

Pierce armour
Expansive Frost cloak
Shimmering shield/Xena's empowering disc
Runeguard of still waters
Audacious runemend

I'm not sure what's more important, Xena's empowering disc or the major Heroism from Shimmering shield?
I can stack that with Audacious runemend for minor Heroism.

I'm going decently heavy on the healing since I only pug and have no idea what kind of group I'm going to get. Fake healers are a thing.
I also Question why I should use Elemental Blockade when I'm not a DD.

I'm also wondering if the Curative runeforms passive Healing Tides will apply to polar wind?

Or should I switch the Curative Runeforms skill line with Templar Restoring light skill line? Then instead of Audacious runemend I would use the skill ritual of rebirth which procs the passive Sacred Ground that increases the damage I can block by 10% for the duration.
But I would lose Xena's Empowering Disc and would replace it with Radiant Aura.

Soarora · September 17

Am I correct in presuming this is for pug dungeons? Or is it for pug trials?

If it’s for dungeons here’s what I’d say:
- Runic Sunder > Inner Rage > Runic Embrace, but I understand why you might want to have Runic Embrace over the other two. I had it like that for my arc tank too.
- It looks like your first list is more suited as the backbar and your second list is more suited as the front bar unless you’re doing ice staff tanking for AoE brittle (more on that in next point)
- If you’re frontbar ice staff tanking, then I suggest gripping shards instead of runeguard of still waters as it’ll do AoE minor brittle. But it also is a good immobilize
- Instead of wasting a 5pc dark convergence, use void bash (sword and board from vateshran hallows) or scribe an aoe pull (one of the soul abilities). Void bash has a big radius centered on an add but requires slotting power slam. The scribed aoe pull has a smaller radius centered on you but only takes up 1 slot across your whole build and pixel stacks trash like rune of displacement does.
- I’d drop runemend and shimmering shield. I know you said you’re going heavy on healing but that’s what polar wind is for. Shimmering shield wont help you unless theres a lot of projectiles and not all fights have projectiles.
- To answer your question on elemental blockade, the point isn’t to do damage— it’s to apply the Crusher enchantment. Frost blockade also slows and applies minor breach to chilled enemies.
- I have a templar tank and I really cannot recommend picking up a templar line unless you have no other ideas. Plar tanks in my experience have a lot of self HoTs and defensive buffs but no ability to burst heal themselves or others. If you want to keep leaning into healing, pick up sorc for vibrant shroud. But again, you have polar wind.

As for bar placement, I’d shuffle them around like this:

(Front or backbar) Runic embrace (range taunt)

(Backbar) Rune of the colourless pool (long debuff)

(Backbar) Elemental blockade (debuff)

(Frontbar) Polar wind (heal)

(Front or backbar) Frozen Device (chain)

(Frontbar) Gibbering shelter (defensive ult)

-

(Front or backbar) Pierce armour (debuff/taunt)

(Backbar) Expansive Frost cloak (major resolve)

(Backbar) Shimmering shield/Xena's empowering disc (zenas’ or swap to something else)

(Whatever bar your aoe pull is coming from) Runeguard of still waters or gripping shards (immobilize, buff (runeguard) or debuff (shards))

Flex

(Backbar) Offensive ult (warhorn, atronach, or glyphic)

NoSoup · September 18

So I've been playing around a fair bit with my Arcanist tank over the last couple of weeks. I really love Rune of Displacement too, personally its the best pull in the game. But you're right, you only use the one skill from the tree and the passives don't really do much for tanking. Currently I have two builds with my armoury assistant so I can change it out based on the group/content.

For the harder (DLC HM) stuff I'm currently keeping with Rune of Displacement, Soldier of Apo and Winter's Embrace.

Skills are front bar Polar Wind, Rune of Colourless Pool, Pierce Armor, Shield Throw (pull, maim, fencer's parry) Unbreakable Fate. Ulti Horn
Back bar is Runic Sunder (I backbar Stonehulk so this is the taunt to proc the set) Elemental blockade (you use this to ensure a high uptime on your crusher enchantment to help dps hit pen cap) Rune of Displacement, Gripping Shards (for passives mostly) which leaves you with a flex spot. Ulti Gibbering shield. Sets are Tremorscale, Perfected Lucient Echos and Stonehulk.

My other build probably provides more utility but is more complicated (for me at least) so I run this one on the dungeons and groups I'm feeling quite confident with. Same sets except we use Voidbash as well.
Skill lines are Bone Tyrant, Soldier and Winters Embrace.

Skills are Beckoning Armor, swaps for Unbreakable Fate. Power Bash swaps for Rune of Displacement (which switches place with Rune of Colourless Pool) and Agony Totem swaps for Shards - which means you have to drop Gibbering Shield and put on Permafrost if you want the winter's embrace passives on both bars.

I just find Voidbash to be not that great of a pull but with this setup you are getting high AOE uptimes of both major cowardice and maim which can be good for dungeons where you have a lot of heavy hitting trash. But I do find you're using shield throw to pull back in enemies a lot more than you have to with displacement due to the long cooldown and void bash.

I'm yet to try a scribed skill for the aoe pull instead of void bash which might make things feel a bit smoother, you'd still have major maim on the shield throw for bosses but you'd lose the aoe aspect.

LittlePinkDot · September 18

Soarora wrote: »

Am I correct in presuming this is for pug dungeons? Or is it for pug trials?

If it’s for dungeons here’s what I’d say:
- Runic Sunder > Inner Rage > Runic Embrace, but I understand why you might want to have Runic Embrace over the other two. I had it like that for my arc tank too.
- It looks like your first list is more suited as the backbar and your second list is more suited as the front bar unless you’re doing ice staff tanking for AoE brittle (more on that in next point)
- If you’re frontbar ice staff tanking, then I suggest gripping shards instead of runeguard of still waters as it’ll do AoE minor brittle. But it also is a good immobilize
- Instead of wasting a 5pc dark convergence, use void bash (sword and board from vateshran hallows) or scribe an aoe pull (one of the soul abilities). Void bash has a big radius centered on an add but requires slotting power slam. The scribed aoe pull has a smaller radius centered on you but only takes up 1 slot across your whole build and pixel stacks trash like rune of displacement does.
- I’d drop runemend and shimmering shield. I know you said you’re going heavy on healing but that’s what polar wind is for. Shimmering shield wont help you unless theres a lot of projectiles and not all fights have projectiles.
- To answer your question on elemental blockade, the point isn’t to do damage— it’s to apply the Crusher enchantment. Frost blockade also slows and applies minor breach to chilled enemies.
- I have a templar tank and I really cannot recommend picking up a templar line unless you have no other ideas. Plar tanks in my experience have a lot of self HoTs and defensive buffs but no ability to burst heal themselves or others. If you want to keep leaning into healing, pick up sorc for vibrant shroud. But again, you have polar wind.

As for bar placement, I’d shuffle them around like this:

(Front or backbar) Runic embrace (range taunt)

(Backbar) Rune of the colourless pool (long debuff)

(Backbar) Elemental blockade (debuff)

(Frontbar) Polar wind (heal)

(Front or backbar) Frozen Device (chain)

(Frontbar) Gibbering shelter (defensive ult)

-

(Front or backbar) Pierce armour (debuff/taunt)

(Backbar) Expansive Frost cloak (major resolve)

(Backbar) Shimmering shield/Xena's empowering disc (zenas’ or swap to something else)

(Whatever bar your aoe pull is coming from) Runeguard of still waters or gripping shards (immobilize, buff (runeguard) or debuff (shards))

Flex

(Backbar) Offensive ult (warhorn, atronach, or glyphic)

Yes I'm using a a frost staff on my from bar. She's a Magicka focused tank. I was going for an ice mage tank theme. The only reason why I was leaning towards runeguard instead of gripping shards is because Runeguard provides a buff for the group.
I wish they would buff gripping shards.

I didn't know about the crushing enchant, I forget what I'm using, by it's not that.
Does frozen device not provide the minor Brittle?

I'm using turning tide and Nunatak for major brittle.
My other 5 piece set is on jewlery and staff is Crafty Alfiq because I like the extra Magicka and was using chakram shields to shield the group and that scales from Magicka.
The only reason I was thinking Dark convergence is because I wanted the same pull as rune of displacement. Otherwise that 2nd 5 piece set is up for debate.

I thought about leasing burst, but the problem is that the armoury doesn't save scribed skills. And I use Healing Burst on her PvP set up, and chilling soul too.

Soarora · September 18

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Am I correct in presuming this is for pug dungeons? Or is it for pug trials?

If it’s for dungeons here’s what I’d say:
- Runic Sunder > Inner Rage > Runic Embrace, but I understand why you might want to have Runic Embrace over the other two. I had it like that for my arc tank too.
- It looks like your first list is more suited as the backbar and your second list is more suited as the front bar unless you’re doing ice staff tanking for AoE brittle (more on that in next point)
- If you’re frontbar ice staff tanking, then I suggest gripping shards instead of runeguard of still waters as it’ll do AoE minor brittle. But it also is a good immobilize
- Instead of wasting a 5pc dark convergence, use void bash (sword and board from vateshran hallows) or scribe an aoe pull (one of the soul abilities). Void bash has a big radius centered on an add but requires slotting power slam. The scribed aoe pull has a smaller radius centered on you but only takes up 1 slot across your whole build and pixel stacks trash like rune of displacement does.
- I’d drop runemend and shimmering shield. I know you said you’re going heavy on healing but that’s what polar wind is for. Shimmering shield wont help you unless theres a lot of projectiles and not all fights have projectiles.
- To answer your question on elemental blockade, the point isn’t to do damage— it’s to apply the Crusher enchantment. Frost blockade also slows and applies minor breach to chilled enemies.
- I have a templar tank and I really cannot recommend picking up a templar line unless you have no other ideas. Plar tanks in my experience have a lot of self HoTs and defensive buffs but no ability to burst heal themselves or others. If you want to keep leaning into healing, pick up sorc for vibrant shroud. But again, you have polar wind.

As for bar placement, I’d shuffle them around like this:

(Front or backbar) Runic embrace (range taunt)

(Backbar) Rune of the colourless pool (long debuff)

(Backbar) Elemental blockade (debuff)

(Frontbar) Polar wind (heal)

(Front or backbar) Frozen Device (chain)

(Frontbar) Gibbering shelter (defensive ult)

-

(Front or backbar) Pierce armour (debuff/taunt)

(Backbar) Expansive Frost cloak (major resolve)

(Backbar) Shimmering shield/Xena's empowering disc (zenas’ or swap to something else)

(Whatever bar your aoe pull is coming from) Runeguard of still waters or gripping shards (immobilize, buff (runeguard) or debuff (shards))

Flex

(Backbar) Offensive ult (warhorn, atronach, or glyphic)

Yes I'm using a a frost staff on my from bar. She's a Magicka focused tank. I was going for an ice mage tank theme. The only reason why I was leaning towards runeguard instead of gripping shards is because Runeguard provides a buff for the group.
I wish they would buff gripping shards.

I didn't know about the crushing enchant, I forget what I'm using, by it's not that.
Does frozen device not provide the minor Brittle?

I'm using turning tide and Nunatak for major brittle.
My other 5 piece set is on jewlery and staff is Crafty Alfiq because I like the extra Magicka and was using chakram shields to shield the group and that scales from Magicka.
The only reason I was thinking Dark convergence is because I wanted the same pull as rune of displacement. Otherwise that 2nd 5 piece set is up for debate.

I thought about leasing burst, but the problem is that the armoury doesn't save scribed skills. And I use Healing Burst on her PvP set up, and chilling soul too.

I see, nevermind on the brittle then because Nunatak will also do AoE minor brittle if you’re holding an ice staff iirc. The Crusher enchant reduces enemy defense, necessary to get DPS to have enough penetration through enemy armor. Yeah, I wish the armory saved scribed skills

. If you have access to trial sets, I’d consider master architect. It’s not a sustain set though if you need the sustain, it just has one magicka line. But it does give major slayer. Problem also with dark convergence is it has a long cooldown and I don’t know how easy it’d be to control where the pull gets centered on with the abilities that you have. That said, I said I don’t know because I don’t know, nothing wrong with giving dark convergence a try.