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Eso feels dull and formulaic

Seaviy
Seaviy
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I'm a solo player and I often play alone. I enjoy the generally relaxed pace of the game, as most of the content stays relevant, and you can always come back to it after taking a break.
But when I recently returned after a short break, I was surprised by the lack of depth and excitement in many types of content for the last chapters

Questing, exploration and small activities are probably the most common and preferred content in the game by many players like me. Every player does these things practically. So I would like to talk about them.

The quests themselves have become more trivial and predictable. They are too short to tell a good story or allow the characters to develop and be empathized with. We constantly meet new allies, only to lose touch with them for long periods of time. Even if we meet them again, they remain the same as they were originally written.
Side quests are even shorter and usually only involve one location near the quest giver. The Scribing quest chain is the only exception that I have enjoyed recently.

Very weak sense of exploration and reward for it. Overall, the dynamics of the exploration changed from “I want to explore this new place because it's interesting and I'll see something new and unusual” to “I'm only here because I have a quest or map marker.” And the quests you need to do are predictably placed near the delve or point of interest. And the NPC will definitely shout an annoying phrase so that the player definitely doesn't miss it.

And as a reward for completing Overland content, you will mainly receive green Overland set pieces or crafting materials, which most players are not seriously interested in. I'm not saying that there has to be some kind of shiny reward for what a player does in the game, but I also haven't felt the satisfaction of discovery in a long time.

Did you know that during the new moon, you can find vampire NPCs that can infect you with vampirism or lycanthropy? Why is such an unusual and immersive mechanic involving the changing moon phases not used anywhere else in the game except in this one?

We have day and night cycle, siege weapons, interactive objects, grappling hook, stealth, different character forms and resizing, temporary new abilities that are only occasionally used in the design of locations and encounters. In 1,400 hours of gameplay, I can only recall one quest that utilized siege weapons in the West Weald. There are already an infinite number of game mechanics and tools in the game itself, but they are simply not being used.

What surprises me most is that we have puzzles and unique mechanics in the dungeons, where they don't really resonate well with players' attempts to speedrun dungeons, but not in the open world.

I would also like to mention world events at locations. From the entire set, as Anchors, Geysers, Harrowstorms, Incursions, I would only highlight Dragons. They look epic, they are strong and cool. But overall, they are all very similar to each other.
Why can't they be made complex and have several stages? So that players can team up across the entire location and complete several tasks at once. How about a full-scale attack by the Worm cult? Players from across the location unite to interrupt an attack on a peaceful town or repel it from the cult to make it accessible to players for a certain period of time.
Firstly, destroy the scouts and capture the cult's outposts near the settlement. Then, summon allied NPCs from the location and help them fortify themselves for the upcoming siege. And then there's the assault using full-fledged siege weapons. After a while, the cult returns and can recapture the settlement if the players don't help defend it. Sounds like Cyrodiil, right? Maybe then many players will like it and decide to try their hand at a full-fledged battle with other players, already knowing how it works. And this is just one example that an event does not necessarily have to be flat and one-dimensional.

The overland content itself is fairly simple and does not present any challenges. As a result, there is little sense of character development through leveling up. I've had a Level 10 training set for the past couple of years that I use to level up other characters from levels 10 to 50. This is sufficient to avoid any problems for the leveling process. Most enemies can be defeated with your bare hands. As a result, most of the players I encounter in dungeons are unfamiliar with the game's basic mechanics. They don't even know that you can bash enemies to interrupt. I'm not saying that all enemies should have increased attack and HP. Enemies need to be more unique, with mechanics and reactions to player actions (and not just AoE spam, because I know you guys).
All players had to face the chimera during the Scribing quest line. There's no reason for the overland content to be easier than this fight.

Finally, I would like to mention the crafting. It's too confusing for new players and time-gated. The system itself is in a state of terrible stagnation and begins to collapse when attempts are made to make it accessible to new players. Why do old, unpopular crafting sets require so many traits while new ones don't? Other than resource gathering, we haven't had any content for crafters in years, like minigames, gear sets, or even quest chains. Fishing doesn't even have its own skill tree.
I understand that many people like fishing because of its simplicity. However, it's possible to please everyone. If you don't have any fishing skills and just want to chill, let's fishing would take 20 seconds, just like it does now. If you want to fish actively and participate in the minigame, it could take 12–15 seconds depending on your skill level.
Even F76 already has fishing with its own content.

Finally, I would like to say that well-designed content and deep systems keep players engaged for hundreds of hours. But artificially imposed golden pursuits and endeavors only for an hour or a few days.
  • YstradClud
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    Seaviy wrote: »
    How about a full-scale attack by the Worm cult?

    I noticed since the last update I now have dolmens on my map even though none seem active yet. Looks we they are already getting ready for the Writhing Wall event.

    Yn50vdZ.png

    |Pascweten| Breton Templar PC NA
    |Ceaulin| Bosmer Templar Xbox NA
  • Seaviy
    Seaviy
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    YstradClud wrote: »
    Seaviy wrote: »
    How about a full-scale attack by the Worm cult?

    I noticed since the last update I now have dolmens on my map even though none seem active yet. Looks we they are already getting ready for the Writhing Wall event.

    Yn50vdZ.png

    I won't lie, I have very high expectations for this event and curious to see if will be able to bring something new to the game
  • ESO_player123
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    You have a lot of suggestions in your post, but I would like to comment on only one right now: the incursions with multiple stages.

    While that might look interesting on paper, we already have an example of incursions that are kind of like that: the Mirrormoor incursions in West Weald. From what I gather (and my own experience) they are among the least favorite ones. Need to visit 3 separate locations before you can actually start one, lots of invulnerability phases. As a result, it quickly becomes a chore that people go through only because the were adding new rewards to it. Once most people are done with the rewards, good luck finding players willing to go through them again.

    Dragons, on the other hand, are still done by people even though the content is much older.

    Also, I do not think a lot of people would welcome an incursion like a Harrowstorm but longer and more complex. They are not that popular as-is outside of events.
  • tsaescishoeshiner
    tsaescishoeshiner
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    Solstice had some great sidequests for me (and some filler-ish ones). I never expect too much from the main quests, as I think their goal is to reach a big climactic battle more than the kind of storytelling I find memorable and powerful. So I treat them as a bit of entertainment and an excuse for us to be in the new zone, as well as a reason for the current events in the area.

    I'd love a character-driven main story again sometime, or something with unique charm like Dark Brotherhood.
    PC-NA
    in-game: @tsaescishoeshiner
  • Narvuntien
    Narvuntien
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    I really enjoyed the three-part Vvaadenfell, Clockwork, Summerset storyline. But it is rare that players play the game in order at this point.

    But I would enjoy something like that even if it occurs over lots of smaller zones.
  • colossalvoids
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    Personally feels that previously (up until elsweyr) they had stories, now they need stories to fill up the space. And all the issues start from there, the stories themselves and the zones just following the convenient route and fulfilling the obligation of having x amount of quests, delves etc.
  • Seaviy
    Seaviy
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    You have a lot of suggestions in your post, but I would like to comment on only one right now: the incursions with multiple stages.

    While that might look interesting on paper, we already have an example of incursions that are kind of like that: the Mirrormoor incursions in West Weald. From what I gather (and my own experience) they are among the least favorite ones. Need to visit 3 separate locations before you can actually start one, lots of invulnerability phases. As a result, it quickly becomes a chore that people go through only because the were adding new rewards to it. Once most people are done with the rewards, good luck finding players willing to go through them again.

    Dragons, on the other hand, are still done by people even though the content is much older.

    Also, I do not think a lot of people would welcome an incursion like a Harrowstorm but longer and more complex. They are not that popular as-is outside of events.
    I tried Mirrormoor, but I wasn't impressed. Ultimately, I think it comes down to how fun the activity is and what rewards I'll get for it. Mirrormoor doesn't offer any new experiences; it's just like Harrowstorm, except you have to walk around. On the other hand, if we talk about dragons again, chasing after them, especially if you are a new player, is quite stressful, but the battle itself is worth it.
    Solstice had some great sidequests for me (and some filler-ish ones). I never expect too much from the main quests, as I think their goal is to reach a big climactic battle more than the kind of storytelling I find memorable and powerful. So I treat them as a bit of entertainment and an excuse for us to be in the new zone, as well as a reason for the current events in the area.

    I'd love a character-driven main story again sometime, or something with unique charm like Dark Brotherhood.
    The truly memorable climactic battle that I recall was in the original story in 2014. Everything led up to it, and you could feel the tension building throughout the long quest chain. The last time I had a similar feeling was in Greymoor. Remember that Lyris was going to Skingrad at the end of Markarth. Damn, I wonder what happened.
    Narvuntien wrote: »
    I really enjoyed the three-part Vvaadenfell, Clockwork, Summerset storyline. But it is rare that players play the game in order at this point.

    But I would enjoy something like that even if it occurs over lots of smaller zones.
    I am a huge fan of Vvardenfell, Clockwork and Orsinium. It's like top-notch TES experience.
    Edited by Seaviy on August 24, 2025 2:46PM
  • SpiritofESO
    SpiritofESO
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    I am also a solo player and usually play alone (except in Cyrodiil where I enjoy killing my fellow players :smiley: ).

    The first moment that I realized what a fun game this is was when I chanced upon a Thieves Trove and looted it and and was immediately instructed to go to the Thieves Guild to learn how to be a thief and a pickpocket! And I remember thinking, "Oh my God, I can steal in this game?!" After completing those skills, I went on to become an Silencer in the Dark Brotherhood and acquired, naturally, Blade of Woe!

    Long story short, my Armory contains 10 builds with everything from dual wield to two-hand, to sword-and-shield, to light armor magicka, medium armor stamina, even heavy armor tank. I carry all necessary armor and weapons with me and still have three quarters of my inventory left over to acquire as much loot as I possibly can. :smiley:

    I've been playing the game since June of 2019 (Elsweyr expansion) and my goal in playing this game, which I find one of the best MMORPGs ever, was to do as much as possible, to experience everything the game has to offer, to maximize every skill that I felt was valuable, to earn as many titles as I could, and to acquire as many achievements as I can -- such as Silver and Gold Cadwell and "Adventurer Across a Decade," as well as Empress and Grand Overlord.

    This, I think, makes you a very well-rounded and experienced player both in the PVE realm and the PVP realm.

    I suggest, respectfully, that the feeling of ennui or boredom with the game actually stems from not doing the broadest variety of various activities as possible.

    :wink:

    (Want some real excitement? Train the skills required to be a tank and then go tank the Elsweyr dragons! Yeah, FUN!)
    Edited by SpiritofESO on August 24, 2025 4:10PM
    • ~ PS NA ~ ALDMERI DOMINION ~
      ~ "SPIRIT GOLDBLADE" WOOD ELF NIGHTBLADE ~
      ~ GRAND OVERLORD ~ FORMER EMPRESS ~
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      "Adapt or Die"
  • SeaGtGruff
    SeaGtGruff
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    You have a lot of suggestions in your post, but I would like to comment on only one right now: the incursions with multiple stages.

    While that might look interesting on paper, we already have an example of incursions that are kind of like that: the Mirrormoor incursions in West Weald. From what I gather (and my own experience) they are among the least favorite ones. Need to visit 3 separate locations before you can actually start one, lots of invulnerability phases. As a result, it quickly becomes a chore that people go through only because the were adding new rewards to it. Once most people are done with the rewards, good luck finding players willing to go through them again.

    Dragons, on the other hand, are still done by people even though the content is much older.

    Also, I do not think a lot of people would welcome an incursion like a Harrowstorm but longer and more complex. They are not that popular as-is outside of events.

    I think the mirrormoor incursions are a really cool idea, one which was obviously inspired by some of the player suggestions in these forums over the years. But the execution of the idea turned out to be too frustrating for a lot of players.

    I think invulnerable phases are okay if they aren't used too frequently and don't last too long each time, especially if the adds which need to be dealt with to end the invulnerable phase aren't so powerful or too mechanics heavy that most players can't successfully deal with them.

    But if the adds are too difficult for most players, or if a boss keeps healing itself so much that any gains players have made get quickly erased unless the players' DPS is high enough, then a lot of players just give up and go do something else.

    There's a delicate balance between something that's fun because it's difficult and challenging, versus something that's no fun because it's too agonizing and frustrating. Even something as simple as terrain can be a source of rage-inducing frustration, as anyone who's ever played Morrowind, fallen into the sea, and then spent 15 minutes swimming through slaughterfish and dreugh trying to find a place where the "shore" isn't too steep to climb back out can attest. Or getting immobilized and killed by a trash mob in an ESO dungeon because you got trapped by a few pebbles that your character is too stupid to be able to step over and you couldn't figure out in time what was preventing you from moving or roll-dodging out of danger. Finding an engaging balance between fun and frustration isn't always easy for game devs.
    I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!
  • whitecrow
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    The Valkynaz are very strong so I don't know why they need or have an invulnerable phase. Is this some kind of game structure issue that I am not understanding? The mirror mosaics are very frustrating to me because it seems like every time I get my ultimate off, invulnerability. Now I try to wait until they have just done one to let fly but... I shouldn't have to.
  • randconfig
    randconfig
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    Seaviy wrote: »
    You have a lot of suggestions in your post, but I would like to comment on only one right now: the incursions with multiple stages.

    While that might look interesting on paper, we already have an example of incursions that are kind of like that: the Mirrormoor incursions in West Weald. From what I gather (and my own experience) they are among the least favorite ones. Need to visit 3 separate locations before you can actually start one, lots of invulnerability phases. As a result, it quickly becomes a chore that people go through only because the were adding new rewards to it. Once most people are done with the rewards, good luck finding players willing to go through them again.

    Dragons, on the other hand, are still done by people even though the content is much older.

    Also, I do not think a lot of people would welcome an incursion like a Harrowstorm but longer and more complex. They are not that popular as-is outside of events.
    I tried Mirrormoor, but I wasn't impressed. Ultimately, I think it comes down to how fun the activity is and what rewards I'll get for it. Mirrormoor doesn't offer any new experiences; it's just like Harrowstorm, except you have to walk around. On the other hand, if we talk about dragons again, chasing after them, especially if you are a new player, is quite stressful, but the battle itself is worth it.
    Solstice had some great sidequests for me (and some filler-ish ones). I never expect too much from the main quests, as I think their goal is to reach a big climactic battle more than the kind of storytelling I find memorable and powerful. So I treat them as a bit of entertainment and an excuse for us to be in the new zone, as well as a reason for the current events in the area.

    I'd love a character-driven main story again sometime, or something with unique charm like Dark Brotherhood.
    The truly memorable climactic battle that I recall was in the original story in 2014. Everything led up to it, and you could feel the tension building throughout the long quest chain. The last time I had a similar feeling was in Greymoor. Remember that Lyris was going to Skingrad at the end of Markarth. Damn, I wonder what happened.
    Narvuntien wrote: »
    I really enjoyed the three-part Vvaadenfell, Clockwork, Summerset storyline. But it is rare that players play the game in order at this point.

    But I would enjoy something like that even if it occurs over lots of smaller zones.
    I am a huge fan of Vvardenfell, Clockwork and Orsinium. It's like top-notch TES experience.

    Personally, I thought Orsinium was bland and boring. Clockwork city, Vvardenfell, and Summerset were great. Then the stuff between Summerset and Necrom I didn't play due to life stuff.

    Necrom into Gold Road was an incredible story to me, actually the one that made me feel the most suspense/sense of urgency to keep going. The weakest point being the wood elf stuff in Gold Road, that didn't feel that memorable. The boss fights were climatic, the ending had a cliff hanger, I really hope we get a follow up to that storyline, and Apocrypha had some of the coolest details/zone design I've ever seen in a game. Mirrormoor needs more content as well, it wasn't explored enough.

    I'm finally replaying all dlcs in order with prologues, so my thoughts my change, but that's how I feel currently.
  • Destai
    Destai
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    I don't think ESO being formulaic is necessarily a bad thing. It's what they deliver with that formula that needs work. That's where some features feel a little dull.

    I'm once again in maintenance mode, where I'm just logging in to get endeavors and login rewards. I don't think a lot of the game's systems respect my time or ensure that I play the game. Feels like the intended experience is to be a burst player who uses the Crown Store for any convenience. Fundamentally, this game feels like a checklist to me.

    I finally got a gaming PC after being a Mac user for years and returned to GW2 after being away for almost 8 years. While ESO and GW2 share many of the same concepts, I believe GW2 delivers on them in a more exciting - and ultimately rewarding - way.

    Here's a few I've noticed.
    • Seals of Endeavors vs. Wizard's Vault. Both are systems where you can get the RNG box content. GW2's implementation is more rewarding. For instance, I'm not limited in how many daily or weekly activities I can do. The stock also doesn't rotate out and isn't priced in a way where if I buy one thing, that means I really can't another thing until months later.
    • Zone Design. Both games feature some really impressive zones. The zone designers in both games are really talented and the assets in both are incredible. However, I'm noticing in GW2 there's just more depth. Vertically, horizontally, the maps feel more dense and exciting. The zone events add to that vibrancy. Plus, ESO gets 1 large and 1 small zone a year, or used to. GW2 - way more.
    • Combat. I love both game's combat systems, but GW2's is more responsive by a mile. I've never had a situation where a skill doesn't respond or the game lags like it does in ESO. And while you can the same weapon across multiple classes/professions in GW2, like in ESO, it feels different. The game respects class identity. This makes having alts more engaging.
    • Mounts. GW2 overall has much more account wide benefits, but I feel like mounts was the big one to call out. Whereas ESO requires 6 months to fully upgrading your mount, or whipping our your wallet, GW2 has masteries that are account wide. Seems like the focus is on playing the game, rather than setting up a monetized problem-solution structure. Moreover, GW2's mounts are more than just speed boost, they are meaningful tools for overcoming obstacles.

    Back to ESO. There's a lot of systems with potential, but the game feels very static in comparison to GW2. It's not to say it's lacking in fun; I've played it for 4000+ hours. But, I can see where it's lacking something that other games have. It would be nice if they could look at how GW2 gives each game system meaning, seeing them snowball together into a more fun experience. At this point in the game's life, I don't expect any major overhauls or additions. I just expect the same style content with a new marketing theme.
    Edited by Destai on August 25, 2025 5:07PM
  • Seaviy
    Seaviy
    ✭✭✭
    I am also a solo player and usually play alone (except in Cyrodiil where I enjoy killing my fellow players :smiley: ).

    The first moment that I realized what a fun game this is was when I chanced upon a Thieves Trove and looted it and and was immediately instructed to go to the Thieves Guild to learn how to be a thief and a pickpocket! And I remember thinking, "Oh my God, I can steal in this game?!" After completing those skills, I went on to become an Silencer in the Dark Brotherhood and acquired, naturally, Blade of Woe!

    Long story short, my Armory contains 10 builds with everything from dual wield to two-hand, to sword-and-shield, to light armor magicka, medium armor stamina, even heavy armor tank. I carry all necessary armor and weapons with me and still have three quarters of my inventory left over to acquire as much loot as I possibly can. :smiley:

    I've been playing the game since June of 2019 (Elsweyr expansion) and my goal in playing this game, which I find one of the best MMORPGs ever, was to do as much as possible, to experience everything the game has to offer, to maximize every skill that I felt was valuable, to earn as many titles as I could, and to acquire as many achievements as I can -- such as Silver and Gold Cadwell and "Adventurer Across a Decade," as well as Empress and Grand Overlord.

    This, I think, makes you a very well-rounded and experienced player both in the PVE realm and the PVP realm.

    I suggest, respectfully, that the feeling of ennui or boredom with the game actually stems from not doing the broadest variety of various activities as possible.

    :wink:

    (Want some real excitement? Train the skills required to be a tank and then go tank the Elsweyr dragons! Yeah, FUN!)
    I meant something else. It's more about our current approach, depth of exploration, and systems.
    For example, we have various collectibles in the game that need to be collected. How to make it more convenient?

    One option is to give the character a tool or the ability to sense nearby collectibles upon completing the main quest chain. Like the mage guild's books collection, thieves guild with thieves troves and overland strongboxes. This would be an account-wide upgrade (like scribing or subclassing) which would make life easier for other characters. Or if you have a companion, let them tell you when something is nearby. You could make each companion responsible for a different type of things.
    There are many variations on this idea. The main thing is that the player will be able to explore the world naturally and sometimes sidetrack from the current quest.

    What do we have in the game? Skyshards at the Crown Store or add-ons and options that show all the information on the map. And we haven't seen any improvements or tools that change the usual overland content and exploring.
    randconfig wrote: »
    Personally, I thought Orsinium was bland and boring. Clockwork city, Vvardenfell, and Summerset were great. Then the stuff between Summerset and Necrom I didn't play due to life stuff.

    Necrom into Gold Road was an incredible story to me, actually the one that made me feel the most suspense/sense of urgency to keep going. The weakest point being the wood elf stuff in Gold Road, that didn't feel that memorable. The boss fights were climatic, the ending had a cliff hanger, I really hope we get a follow up to that storyline, and Apocrypha had some of the coolest details/zone design I've ever seen in a game. Mirrormoor needs more content as well, it wasn't explored enough.

    I'm finally replaying all dlcs in order with prologues, so my thoughts my change, but that's how I feel currently.
    I think which story one likes more is a matter of personal preference. To stay on topic, my concern is more that the quests are becoming more predictable and the characters are not developing further. Take, for example, Eveli Sharp-Arrow, whom we meet twice in the Orsinium and Blackwood chapters. If you remove her from the story and replace her with any other character, nothing will change for both stories.

  • Seaviy
    Seaviy
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    Destai wrote: »
    I don't think ESO being formulaic is necessarily a bad thing. It's what they deliver with that formula that needs work. That's where some features feel a little dull.

    I'm once again in maintenance mode, where I'm just logging in to get endeavors and login rewards. I don't think a lot of the game's systems respect my time or ensure that I play the game. Feels like the intended experience is to be a burst player who uses the Crown Store for any convenience. Fundamentally, this game feels like a checklist to me.

    I finally got a gaming PC after being a Mac user for years and returned to GW2 after being away for almost 8 years. While ESO and GW2 share many of the same concepts, I believe GW2 delivers on them in a more exciting - and ultimately rewarding - way.

    Here's a few I've noticed.
    • Seals of Endeavors vs. Wizard's Vault. Both are systems where you can get the RNG box content. GW2's implementation is more rewarding. For instance, I'm not limited in how many daily or weekly activities I can do. The stock also doesn't rotate out and isn't priced in a way where if I buy one thing, that means I really can't another thing until months later.
    • Zone Design. Both games feature some really impressive zones. The zone designers in both games are really talented and the assets in both are incredible. However, I'm noticing in GW2 there's just more depth. Vertically, horizontally, the maps feel more dense and exciting. The zone events add to that vibrancy. Plus, ESO gets 1 large and 1 small zone a year, or used to. GW2 - way more.
    • Combat. I love both game's combat systems, but GW2's is more responsive by a mile. I've never had a situation where a skill doesn't respond or the game lags like it does in ESO. And while you can the same weapon across multiple classes/professions in GW2, like in ESO, it feels different. The game respects class identity. This makes having alts more engaging.
    • Mounts. GW2 overall has much more account wide benefits, but I feel like mounts was the big one to call out. Whereas ESO requires 6 months to fully upgrading your mount, or whipping our your wallet, GW2 has masteries that are account wide. Seems like the focus is on playing the game, rather than setting up a monetized problem-solution structure. Moreover, GW2's mounts are more than just speed boost, they are meaningful tools for overcoming obstacles.

    Back to ESO. There's a lot of systems with potential, but the game feels very static in comparison to GW2. It's not to say it's lacking in fun; I've played it for 4000+ hours. But, I can see where it's lacking something that other games have. It would be nice if they could look at how GW2 gives each game system meaning, seeing them snowball together into a more fun experience. At this point in the game's life, I don't expect any major overhauls or additions. I just expect the same style content with a new marketing theme.

    Don't get me wrong; I love Eso lore, the vibe, detailed environments, and the feel of the world. I enjoy theorycrafting my character and experimenting with different combinations in solo and PvP gameplay. I could spend hundreds of hours doing just that. The developers did a good job with this and subclassing took it to a new level.
    However, I can't shake the feeling of wasted potential when it comes to exploration, questing, and the approach to creating new content.

    If I recall correctly, GW2 had issues with content gap prior to the release of End of Dragons. But the game has accumulated so much content over the previous years that I think there is always something to do. As for me, it's better to wait and release new, well-thought-out content that developers will be confident about for years to come. But Zos just checking boxes for what should be included in the new chapter without going into any depth.
    We were warned that the release of content in ESO would change. We got one location again, like in a chapter, one game system, four dungeons, and a raid. And it will be a seasonal model. We now have a bundle for a whole year's worth of content, but what has changed compared to releasing one chapter per year?
    Edited by Seaviy on August 31, 2025 10:30AM
  • joergino
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    Seaviy wrote: »
    We were warned that the release of content in ESO would change. We got one location again, like in a chapter, one game system, four dungeons, and a raid. And it will be a seasonal model. We now have a bundle for a whole year's worth of content, but what has changed compared to releasing one chapter per year?

    Well, one thing that has changed is that the price has gone up and that we have to pay for the (IMO completely unnecessary) DLC dungeons twice if we are ESO+ subscribers. We also got a zone that is tinier than a quarter four DLC zone of old.

    Another thing that has changed is that the "system" introduced with the new expansion (subclassing) is not part of the expansion content, but this year it is a base game update instead. I think this is actually a good thing, but nevertheless it means that this year's new paid content comes without any "system" whatsoever, thus reducing the pitiful value of the "content pass" even further.
  • Zyaneth_Bal
    Zyaneth_Bal
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    Seaviy wrote: »
    I'm a solo player and I often play alone. I enjoy the generally relaxed pace of the game, as most of the content stays relevant, and you can always come back to it after taking a break.
    But when I recently returned after a short break, I was surprised by the lack of depth and excitement in many types of content for the last chapters

    Questing, exploration and small activities are probably the most common and preferred content in the game by many players like me. Every player does these things practically. So I would like to talk about them.

    The quests themselves have become more trivial and predictable. They are too short to tell a good story or allow the characters to develop and be empathized with. We constantly meet new allies, only to lose touch with them for long periods of time. Even if we meet them again, they remain the same as they were originally written.
    Side quests are even shorter and usually only involve one location near the quest giver. The Scribing quest chain is the only exception that I have enjoyed recently.

    Very weak sense of exploration and reward for it. Overall, the dynamics of the exploration changed from “I want to explore this new place because it's interesting and I'll see something new and unusual” to “I'm only here because I have a quest or map marker.” And the quests you need to do are predictably placed near the delve or point of interest. And the NPC will definitely shout an annoying phrase so that the player definitely doesn't miss it.

    And as a reward for completing Overland content, you will mainly receive green Overland set pieces or crafting materials, which most players are not seriously interested in. I'm not saying that there has to be some kind of shiny reward for what a player does in the game, but I also haven't felt the satisfaction of discovery in a long time.

    Did you know that during the new moon, you can find vampire NPCs that can infect you with vampirism or lycanthropy? Why is such an unusual and immersive mechanic involving the changing moon phases not used anywhere else in the game except in this one?

    We have day and night cycle, siege weapons, interactive objects, grappling hook, stealth, different character forms and resizing, temporary new abilities that are only occasionally used in the design of locations and encounters. In 1,400 hours of gameplay, I can only recall one quest that utilized siege weapons in the West Weald. There are already an infinite number of game mechanics and tools in the game itself, but they are simply not being used.

    What surprises me most is that we have puzzles and unique mechanics in the dungeons, where they don't really resonate well with players' attempts to speedrun dungeons, but not in the open world.

    I would also like to mention world events at locations. From the entire set, as Anchors, Geysers, Harrowstorms, Incursions, I would only highlight Dragons. They look epic, they are strong and cool. But overall, they are all very similar to each other.
    Why can't they be made complex and have several stages? So that players can team up across the entire location and complete several tasks at once. How about a full-scale attack by the Worm cult? Players from across the location unite to interrupt an attack on a peaceful town or repel it from the cult to make it accessible to players for a certain period of time.
    Firstly, destroy the scouts and capture the cult's outposts near the settlement. Then, summon allied NPCs from the location and help them fortify themselves for the upcoming siege. And then there's the assault using full-fledged siege weapons. After a while, the cult returns and can recapture the settlement if the players don't help defend it. Sounds like Cyrodiil, right? Maybe then many players will like it and decide to try their hand at a full-fledged battle with other players, already knowing how it works. And this is just one example that an event does not necessarily have to be flat and one-dimensional.

    The overland content itself is fairly simple and does not present any challenges. As a result, there is little sense of character development through leveling up. I've had a Level 10 training set for the past couple of years that I use to level up other characters from levels 10 to 50. This is sufficient to avoid any problems for the leveling process. Most enemies can be defeated with your bare hands. As a result, most of the players I encounter in dungeons are unfamiliar with the game's basic mechanics. They don't even know that you can bash enemies to interrupt. I'm not saying that all enemies should have increased attack and HP. Enemies need to be more unique, with mechanics and reactions to player actions (and not just AoE spam, because I know you guys).
    All players had to face the chimera during the Scribing quest line. There's no reason for the overland content to be easier than this fight.

    Finally, I would like to mention the crafting. It's too confusing for new players and time-gated. The system itself is in a state of terrible stagnation and begins to collapse when attempts are made to make it accessible to new players. Why do old, unpopular crafting sets require so many traits while new ones don't? Other than resource gathering, we haven't had any content for crafters in years, like minigames, gear sets, or even quest chains. Fishing doesn't even have its own skill tree.
    I understand that many people like fishing because of its simplicity. However, it's possible to please everyone. If you don't have any fishing skills and just want to chill, let's fishing would take 20 seconds, just like it does now. If you want to fish actively and participate in the minigame, it could take 12–15 seconds depending on your skill level.
    Even F76 already has fishing with its own content.

    Finally, I would like to say that well-designed content and deep systems keep players engaged for hundreds of hours. But artificially imposed golden pursuits and endeavors only for an hour or a few days.
    Great post! Imo it covers eso’s main problems such as simplification and homogenization and acute lack of rewards across the board, all aspects of the game suffer from these, from fishing, crafting questing, overland to dungeons, trials, pvp and even the combat system itself.

    Combat feels increasingly more bland with each update through constant standardizing, hybridization and now multiclassing. Overland becoming more bland as quests are simplified, zones lack depth, exploration and questing poses no challenge and provides no incentivizing rewards whatsoever. Groups pve and pvp severely lack rewards thus many players have no incentive to even give it a try, on top of that pvp has been stagnating for years. And the single recent pvp update only happened to make battlegrounds more unfair and boring while not bringing any new content or incentives. Systems like crafting are stagnating all the way since their implementation.

    Artificial playtime increase like endeavors and golden pursuits isn’t a bad thing but in no way it can make up for lack of engagement of the game systems themselves.
    I really hope devs finally recognize these as real problems, although they have been present all the way, but it’s still not too late to start addressing them, the sooner the better.

    @ZOS_Kevin this is a really great post by the op which raises some longstanding core problems. I ask that you pass this thread along for consideration.
  • Zyaneth_Bal
    Zyaneth_Bal
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    You have a lot of suggestions in your post, but I would like to comment on only one right now: the incursions with multiple stages.

    While that might look interesting on paper, we already have an example of incursions that are kind of like that: the Mirrormoor incursions in West Weald. From what I gather (and my own experience) they are among the least favorite ones. Need to visit 3 separate locations before you can actually start one, lots of invulnerability phases. As a result, it quickly becomes a chore that people go through only because the were adding new rewards to it. Once most people are done with the rewards, good luck finding players willing to go through them again.

    Dragons, on the other hand, are still done by people even though the content is much older.

    Also, I do not think a lot of people would welcome an incursion like a Harrowstorm but longer and more complex. They are not that popular as-is outside of events.
    The whole point of such suggestions is to actually make content like that more popular outside of events. World events being unpopular isn’t an argument, it’s the problem that needs to be addressed. The main reason they are unpopular is that they usually offer basically no desirable rewards, engage design comes second.
  • Warhawke_80
    Warhawke_80
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    Seaviy wrote: »
    I'm a solo player and I often play alone.

    This is why you feel that things are dull...

    Once I made friends the game became fun and exciting
    ““Elric knew. The sword told him, without words of any sort. Stormbringer needed to fight, for that was its reason for existence...”― Michael Moorcock, Elric of Melniboné
  • Seaviy
    Seaviy
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    joergino wrote: »
    Seaviy wrote: »
    We were warned that the release of content in ESO would change. We got one location again, like in a chapter, one game system, four dungeons, and a raid. And it will be a seasonal model. We now have a bundle for a whole year's worth of content, but what has changed compared to releasing one chapter per year?

    Well, one thing that has changed is that the price has gone up and that we have to pay for the (IMO completely unnecessary) DLC dungeons twice if we are ESO+ subscribers. We also got a zone that is tinier than a quarter four DLC zone of old.

    Another thing that has changed is that the "system" introduced with the new expansion (subclassing) is not part of the expansion content, but this year it is a base game update instead. I think this is actually a good thing, but nevertheless it means that this year's new paid content comes without any "system" whatsoever, thus reducing the pitiful value of the "content pass" even further.
    I'm glad that subclassing was given to all players. But otherwise, everything is true.
    My problem with the transition to the seasonal model is that the pipeline for what will be in the updates hasn't changed. Everything is the same, only less.
    Seaviy wrote: »
    I'm a solo player and I often play alone.

    This is why you feel that things are dull...

    Once I made friends the game became fun and exciting
    I sometimes participate in guild activities. Otherwise, I hang out with my friends in voice chat. We used to play FFXIV. It's difficult to convince people to switch to ESO. We tried playing together when Necrom was released.
    Questing and overlanding make up 70% of the gameplay for most new players, but it's not designed for group. I kill most enemies in seconds, so they get bored before reaching level 50.
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