yep, that's what to shoot for, but it can be tough to get there sometimes and sacrifices must be made sometimes.

Yup, gotta get 33k or you'll just get one shot lol.

MincMincMinc wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Isn't 33k the cap?

No there is no hard cap. 33k is the soft cap, but dont forget that enemies will have pen. Average pvp pen is about 20-24k including breaches. So even if you had "capped" at 33k you realistically are only at 9k armor and nowhere near hitting the 33k cap

An average PvP build aims for

• 30k to 33k health
• 3500 to 4000 crit resists
• ~30k resists
• ~18K to 30k pen (this really depends on balorgh)
• ~45% crit chance(runs stuhns or ET)...........or Run about 30% with acuity going to 100%
• Then you just grab up whatever balance of regen vs WeaponDamage vs Movement speed you want
• Then you grab whatever max stats remain for some bonus healing

Quick note, if you're running Acuity you should shoot for just under 25% (EDIT: it's 20% not 25%) crit chance. You want to be as close to 25% (EDIT 20%) as possible without going over. (i.e., 19% since crit chance rounds down).

Reason being because Acuity stacks give you 25% (EDIT 20%) crit chance and proc on non-crit damage. To maximize your time with Acuity up, you want to be able to get close to 100% with 4 stacks but still have the chance to proc that 5th stack to reset the timer.

Thanks to Thumbless for correcting the numbers.

ArchMikem wrote: »

Isn't 33k the cap?

There is no cap in PVP. There is a "soft cap" of 33k in PVP, but because your armor can be reduced by many debuffs, it never hurts to go beyond the soft cap if you are trying to maximize your resistances. For instance, if you want to always STAY above the resistance cap, you will need something like 45-48k resistances, and if your opponent is using Balorg, which can stack on top of all debuffs another 13.5k penetration, you'll need to go well beyond that never drop below cap.

From a practical standpoint, only a purpose built tank is going to be able to stay above the resistance cap in most situations.

With that being said, there are layers of defensive stats that add to a person's damage resistance.

Crit resistance right now is very important. You have an innate I think 1320 crit resist and the cap is currently 3k. Because crit damage is so high, crit resistance is less effective than it used to be in terms of percentage, but it is difficult to survive without having close to max. The easiest way to keep crit resist maxed is having a healer or 2 following you around with robes of transmutation and/or rally cry. Otherwise, you need to dedicate your armor traits to inpenetrable and slot up the slotable crit resistance champion perk.

Then there is raw damage reduction. Many sets offer flat damage reduction. Examples: Torc of the Aylied King offers 15% raw damage reduction. Buffer of the swift offers 10% damage reduction. Aylied's refuge offers 11% damage reduction while blocking. Potentates offers 3% damage reduction. Those are just a few examples.

Beyond this, damage shields can also play heavily into how "tanky" a character is. A sorc running 50-60k mag and 2-3 types of damage shields can be really tanky, even in light armor because they can gain additional "health" by casting the damage shield and renewing it when it is depleted. This, combined with high mobility may make a shielded character difficult to kill.

And self-heals also factor in. Your opponent may only have 20-23k resistances, but if they have high crit chance and high crit damage, their heals are going to crit often and heal for a lot, and their own heals over time are going to make them appear more tanky than they really are because their heal output can match or outpace your damage output. And any good PVP player will have at least 2-3 sources of HOTS they provide for themselves. Easy ones to use are resolving vigor, radiating regen, and a scribed heal (either healing soul or healing burst with a HOT component). Depending on class, they may also have a really strong burst heal they'll use in an "ohh crap!" moment.

In all, it is more than just raw resistances that are making characters survivable. I could have 23k resistances on my templar, but if I have 30+ damage reduction and 3-4 HOTS rolling, I'm going to be a very difficult target for you to kill regardless.

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Isn't 33k the cap?

No there is no hard cap. 33k is the soft cap, but dont forget that enemies will have pen. Average pvp pen is about 20-24k including breaches. So even if you had "capped" at 33k you realistically are only at 9k armor and nowhere near hitting the 33k cap

An average PvP build aims for

• 30k to 33k health
• 3500 to 4000 crit resists
• ~30k resists
• ~18K to 30k pen (this really depends on balorgh)
• ~45% crit chance(runs stuhns or ET)...........or Run about 30% with acuity going to 100%
• Then you just grab up whatever balance of regen vs WeaponDamage vs Movement speed you want
• Then you grab whatever max stats remain for some bonus healing

Quick note, if you're running Acuity you should shoot for just under 25% crit chance. You want to be as close to 25% as possible without going over.

Reason being because Acuity stacks give you 25% crit chance and proc on non-crit damage. To maximize your time with Acuity up, you want to be able to get close to 100% with 3 stacks but still have the chance to proc that 4th stack to reset the timer.

It's 20%, not 25, so shoot for exactly or just above 19 percent. As i believe crit chance is rounded down. Meaning 19.1 gives you same chance as 19.9%, which is 19%...

https://eso-sets.com/set/mechanical-acuity

It's academic really as most buffs give more than 1%. Just stay under, but close to, 20...

Ah yes you're right, thanks for the number correction!

MincMincMinc wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Isn't 33k the cap?

No there is no hard cap. 33k is the soft cap, but dont forget that enemies will have pen. Average pvp pen is about 20-24k including breaches. So even if you had "capped" at 33k you realistically are only at 9k armor and nowhere near hitting the 33k cap

An average PvP build aims for

• 30k to 33k health
• 3500 to 4000 crit resists
• ~30k resists
• ~18K to 30k pen (this really depends on balorgh)
• ~45% crit chance(runs Assassin with stuhns or ET)...........or Run about 25-30% with acuity going to 100%
• Then you just grab up whatever balance of regen vs WeaponDamage vs Movement speed you want
• Then you grab whatever max stats remain for some bonus healing

@Thumbless_Bot @CameraBeardThePirate I think it depends more on what you are doing instead of a flat rule. I see the reasoning for it in a 1v1 , but in 1vX scenarios with things like hurricane, dbos, bladecloak all ticking, there is a very good chance you will proc acuity even at 90% critchance or regardless of your base so extra crit doesn't hurt you. Any extra crit is mainly to keep crit surge pumping during 1vX to help against a healthbar that YoYos alot during crit metas with no counterbuild available. (>>>> crit resist rant)

Without assassin you are likely at like 14% base with the RC 2piece and CP. So prophecy gets you to that 26% mark anyways. With assassin you'd be higher, but chances are with assassin you will be in that 45% -50% crit range and not running acuity anyways. With other sets or variations in pvp maybe you get bumped up to the 30%.

---

Overall for PvP building i think crit chance lines and sets are generally pretty weak feeling. (other than acuity obviously) In game this is probably because it is a damage stat that is gambling. If you do UESP comparisons crit chance choices are always much weaker for an average parse. For instance precise weapons are never worth running vs pen or powered. This standard goes for 2-4 piece bonuses aswell. Granted we don't have much of a choice because we are forced to get RallyingCry (>>>> Rant again) ................There is always the healing aspect, but IMO crit doesnt feel good healing wise unless you have alot of hots. Say if you are only burst heals, chances are when you need the heal, you will want it to guaranteed be strong and work. So in burst heal metas I would rather the guaranteed stat route like powered or WD.

Right now we are in kind of a mix where we have hots and burst heals....but IMO we rely on burst heals more because of the gambling crit damage meta. No matter what, you will get hit with a crit merciless bow that does 80% of your healthbar. When I press healing soul I want to be sure it does as much of my healthbar as possible guaranteed. Not to mention that if a burst heal can do 80% of my max hp without a crit, why should I care if it ever does crit more often?

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Isn't 33k the cap?

No there is no hard cap. 33k is the soft cap, but dont forget that enemies will have pen. Average pvp pen is about 20-24k including breaches. So even if you had "capped" at 33k you realistically are only at 9k armor and nowhere near hitting the 33k cap

An average PvP build aims for

• 30k to 33k health
• 3500 to 4000 crit resists
• ~30k resists
• ~18K to 30k pen (this really depends on balorgh)
• ~45% crit chance(runs Assassin with stuhns or ET)...........or Run about 25-30% with acuity going to 100%
• Then you just grab up whatever balance of regen vs WeaponDamage vs Movement speed you want
• Then you grab whatever max stats remain for some bonus healing

@Thumbless_Bot @CameraBeardThePirate I think it depends more on what you are doing instead of a flat rule. I see the reasoning for it in a 1v1 , but in 1vX scenarios with things like hurricane, dbos, bladecloak all ticking, there is a very good chance you will proc acuity even at 90% critchance or regardless of your base so extra crit doesn't hurt you.

It's not the crit chance that's the issue, it's the duration of Acuity.

If you're above 20% at base without any acuity stacks, your duration of acuity will be shorter, as you will only ever be able to generate 4 stacks. If you're under 20%, you'll always manage to generate that last stack and thus extend your acuity duration by another few seconds.

And yes, you'll be above 20% with prophecy or savagery, which is why if you want the max duration of Acuity you shouldnt have that buff on your bar.

Well yeah that's the tossup. The question is whether that extra second is worth the other 80-90% downtime being at such a low crit during a time when you need to focus on surviving and healing.

14% crit for 25s or 21s
34% crit for 1s
54% crit for 1s
74% crit for 1s
94% crit for 1s to 4s......25s downtime 22% uptime total
100% crit for 4s.............21s downtime 28% uptime total and for the 100% its 14% uptime

Or

26% crit for 25s (almost 2x base crit during downtime)
46% crit for 1s
66% crit for 1s
86% crit for 1s to 4s
100% % crit for 4s..............25s downtime 22% uptime or 12% uptime for the 100%

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Isn't 33k the cap?

No there is no hard cap. 33k is the soft cap, but dont forget that enemies will have pen. Average pvp pen is about 20-24k including breaches. So even if you had "capped" at 33k you realistically are only at 9k armor and nowhere near hitting the 33k cap

An average PvP build aims for

• 30k to 33k health
• 3500 to 4000 crit resists
• ~30k resists
• ~18K to 30k pen (this really depends on balorgh)
• ~45% crit chance(runs Assassin with stuhns or ET)...........or Run about 25-30% with acuity going to 100%
• Then you just grab up whatever balance of regen vs WeaponDamage vs Movement speed you want
• Then you grab whatever max stats remain for some bonus healing

@Thumbless_Bot @CameraBeardThePirate I think it depends more on what you are doing instead of a flat rule. I see the reasoning for it in a 1v1 , but in 1vX scenarios with things like hurricane, dbos, bladecloak all ticking, there is a very good chance you will proc acuity even at 90% critchance or regardless of your base so extra crit doesn't hurt you.

It's not the crit chance that's the issue, it's the duration of Acuity.

If you're above 20% at base without any acuity stacks, your duration of acuity will be shorter, as you will only ever be able to generate 4 stacks. If you're under 20%, you'll always manage to generate that last stack and thus extend your acuity duration by another few seconds.

And yes, you'll be above 20% with prophecy or savagery, which is why if you want the max duration of Acuity you shouldnt have that buff on your bar.

Well yeah that's the tossup. The question is whether that extra second is worth the other 80-90% downtime being at such a low crit during a time when you need to focus on surviving and healing.

14% crit for 25s or 21s
34% crit for 1s
54% crit for 1s
74% crit for 1s
94% crit for 1s to 4s......25s downtime 22% uptime total
100% crit for 4s.............21s downtime 28% uptime total and for the 100% its 14% uptime

Or

26% crit for 25s (almost 2x base crit during downtime)
46% crit for 1s
66% crit for 1s
86% crit for 1s to 4s
100% % crit for 4s..............25s downtime 22% uptime or 12% uptime for the 100%

39% also works to get the extra uptime. Serious theory crafting here. Love it.

I wore acuity a few years ago and went for 19% to get other buffs. This is what makes the game so fun.

The other buffs aspect is the really nice part. Not having to run crit pots or using a scribe buff/bar slot on Savagery is great.

ArchMikem wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Isn't 33k the cap?

An average PvP build aims for

• 30k to 33k health
• 3500 to 4000 crit resists
• ~30k resists
• ~18K to 30k pen (this really depends on balorgh)
• ~45% crit chance(runs stuhns or ET)...........or Run about 30% with acuity going to 100%
• Then you just grab up whatever balance of regen vs WeaponDamage vs Movement speed you want
• Then you grab whatever max stats remain for some bonus healing

Im sorry, but in all my years of building my own characters getting all those numbers up that high AS WELL as getting your Wep/Spell Dmg high enough to actually hit decent sounds impossible to me. The only instance where I managed to get most stats up high-ish is by using Oakensoul, and even then I was starved of offensive pen.

Just go into the Combat Character Mechanics Subforum and find the Whip It DK build thread, thats my current Oakensoul StamDK I've been taking into Cyro. I just know if I made the rest of the armor Heavy, or replaced the Divines gear to Impen, or made the Sword Sharpened from Nirnhoned then other stats would suffer. I would lose so much damage output from the medium armor passives and 200 wep dmg from the loss of a nirnhoned weapon alone.

Well if you think oakensoul is the only way, you are seriously lost. That set is a net negative across the board. Same as something like Ayleid king(although AK is not nearly as bad)

My "meta" setup for stamsorc basically hits all of those values I listed above. UESP LINK I use stuhns for duo/group play, but Essence would be better for solo or dueling.

• 32,863 hp
• 4318 crit resists
• 26k resists + 5% nib mit instead of bloodspawn so roughly 29k resists basically
• 14688pen +8922(breach) = 23,610pen
• 43% crit and 95% crit damage (seriously zos this is an issue, none of my build is trying to be crit)
• about 1.5k mag and 2k stam regen with 5.5kwd