That's how I understood it works. I ran this set in a group last week specifically for the purpose of fighting ball groups, but it feels as if it's bugged or not working as intended. Keep in mind this is very limited data to go off of, but I think it's enough to prove a point and arrive at a credible conclusion. I do plan on running it again and getting some logs to go with it.

The first group I used this against is very well known for stacking as many hots and shields as possible, favoring survivability over all else. Deep fissure hit them for 5-7k on crits, destro ult was ticking between 2-5k (unsure if it was crits or not, going from recordings as we had no logs and combat metrics addon was bugged). Another hit on the same group I saw 11 and 13k non crit vds and 3-6k destro ticks. Note both times were while they were actively fighting with hots and shields up. This damage is low to average, based on what I'm used to seeing against the same group.

The second group was a similar group, but not as heavily invested into defense as the first, but still usually hard to kill. Destro ult ticks were 3-7k, crit vd's were 14-16k, this was also actively fighting.

The third group was a smaller group of about 7. We hit them on ram while they were unaware, so they didn't have many hots up. I got them with destro ticks of 5-12k, other damage was too close to each other to tell what skill they came from, but i saw 9-13k hits, both crits and non crits.

It seems that especially during active fighting, where groups have the most hots and shields up, the damage was very average, lower than it should be in some cases, definitely not what was expected based on calculations. It's comparable to damage numbers I see when running the exact set up, except with rush of agony instead of spellshredder. Seeing as one is just a proc set and the other is supposed to greatly increase the damage done modifier, I should be seeing substantially higher damage numbers, but clearly this is not the case.

Honestly I thought the damage I would be getting would be similar to damage I see from smaller bomb groups using thrive in chaos, which is also a damage done multipler except from an ult. So a bombing duo just using thrive in chaos can do more damage than a larger group with more buffs and spellshredder? Something doesn't add up.

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

That's how I understood it works. I ran this set in a group last week specifically for the purpose of fighting ball groups, but it feels as if it's bugged or not working as intended. Keep in mind this is very limited data to go off of, but I think it's enough to prove a point and arrive at a credible conclusion. I do plan on running it again and getting some logs to go with it.

The first group I used this against is very well known for stacking as many hots and shields as possible, favoring survivability over all else. Deep fissure hit them for 5-7k on crits, destro ult was ticking between 2-5k (unsure if it was crits or not, going from recordings as we had no logs and combat metrics addon was bugged). Another hit on the same group I saw 11 and 13k non crit vds and 3-6k destro ticks. Note both times were while they were actively fighting with hots and shields up. This damage is low to average, based on what I'm used to seeing against the sane group.

The second group was a similar group, but not as heavily invested into defense as the first, but still usually hard to kill. Destro ult ticks were 3-7k, crit vd's were 14-16k, this was also actively fighting.

The third group was a smaller group of about 7. We hit them on ram while they were unaware, so they didn't have many hots up. I got them with destro ticks of 5-12k, other damage was too close to each other to tell what skill they came from, but i saw 9-13k hits, both crits and non crits.

It seems that especially during active fighting, where groups have the most hots and shields up, the damage was very average, lower than it should be in some cases, definitely not what was expected based on calculations. It's comparable to damage numbers I see when running the exact set up, except with rush of agony instead of spellshredder. Seeing as one is just a proc set and the other is supposed to greatly increase the damage done modifier, I should be seeing substantially higher damage numbers, but clearly this is not the case.

Honestly I thought the damage I would be getting would be similar to damage I see from smaller bomb groups using thrive in chaos, which is also a damage done multipler except from an ult. So a bombing duo just using thrive in chaos can do more damage than a larger group with more buffs and spellshredder? Something doesn't add up.

Non-ballgroupers tend to wildly overestimate the number of HOTs active on individual ballgroup players at any given time.

It is completely impossible to have your Vigor up on all 12 players simultaneously with perfect uptime due to the nature of target caps and how healing priorities are determined (this is a super deep rabbit hole...). It is more accurate to assume 6-8 (and bad groups will be even lower than this).

Radiating Regen is even more difficult to maintain group-wide uptime on since it hits far fewer players per cast and lasts for considerably shorter. So you should assume, at max, perhaps 3-5 instances.

In other words, instead of assuming like: 12 + 12 = 24 * 2 = expected +48% damage done you are probably looking more at like 6 + 4 = 10 * 2 = +20% damage done.

You can increment that up a few more to account for Barrier or Gibbering, etc. but it is still going to fall far short of the maximum "theoretical" ceiling of the set.

Which is NOT to say that it isn't a really strong set! It's probably most dangerous when used by ballgroupers against other ballgroupers, though. No other damage set is sniffing 20%+ damage done as a single 5-piece; that's already about double what most other good damage sets provide.

Final thing is that the damage bonus likely falls into the giant "diluted pool" of generic +damage done mods. People can do their own homework on that, though, if they care about the details.

I am well aware, I'm not one of those people who say "if you have 12 players and each has echoing vigor, then you must have 144 echoing vigors in group", that mentality is just ridiculous, for the reasons you correctly pointed out. Even so, 20% damage done you would still feel like you were doing significantly higher damage to these groups, but this is not the case. The damage is a lot lower than expected. Like I said before, I would have expected damage similar to someone using thrive in chaos which caps out at 36%, and as it is now, a duo bomb group using that ult hits way harder than a large group using that set with way more damage buff sets in group, its not even close. I suspect that the current state of the servers is causing the set to not calculate damage properly. Either that or there is a hidden cap. I'll do more testing in the near future to confirm my suspicions, but it feels way off.