My problem with Solstice so far

FabresFour · July 31

Well, overall, this has been a slow year for me in The Elder Scrolls Online. I liked the idea of splitting the story in half and releasing it in parts—I think it creates a sense of mystery in the narrative that encourages players to return throughout the year to see more.

But... I'm having a serious issue with the Solstice map. I mean, something that has always caught my attention in ESO is the new and unique architecture and biomes. Solstice is just... empty?

It’s an extremely spread-out island, without many interesting biomes within it. Even the beaches of Solstice: Khenarthi’s Roost beaches (after the rework) are more interesting to me than Solstice’s. I found them extremely empty, spaced out, and dull.

And then there’s the architecture: we have the Altmer Corelanya, who were expelled from Summerset for going against its cultural norms. So why on earth do they have the exact same architecture as the main Altmer island? Shouldn’t they have something unique or different at least?

Not to mention the Nords... I mean, they’ve been living in that region for a while now. I feel like they should know that their cold-weather cabins don’t make much sense in a tropical region like that. Not to mention the winter clothing they wear! It’s way too hot for that!

Honestly, I feel like there was a lack of cultural detail this year. And that’s always been something that stood out in the game. I understand that they probably wanted to save on assets, but I really found it out of place.

I think something unique could’ve been done here: imagine if the Altmer and Argonians had somehow managed to build a society together, and that was reflected in their cities—completely unlike anything we’ve seen so far? That would’ve been SO cool!

Since Zenimax had the freedom to do whatever they wanted here, the option they went with just feels... weak.

What do you all think?

metheglyn · July 31

I do think they missed an opportunity with Solstice, especially as they spoke of it being isolated and hard to reach. The culture on the island shouldn't really have such heavy mainland Tamriel influences to it. There was a chance to give us something unique, but it seems they only went as far as introducing a different variety of faith in the Three Queens.

I'm still hoping we get some interesting lore with the Stone-Nest tribe that's on the eastern half of the island.

MGRza · July 31

FabresFour wrote: »

Well, overall, this has been a slow year for me in The Elder Scrolls Online. I liked the idea of splitting the story in half and releasing it in parts—I think it creates a sense of mystery in the narrative that encourages players to return throughout the year to see more.

But... I'm having a serious issue with the Solstice map. I mean, something that has always caught my attention in ESO is the new and unique architecture and biomes. Solstice is just... empty?

It’s an extremely spread-out island, without many interesting biomes within it. Even the beaches of Solstice: Khenarthi’s Roost beaches (after the rework) are more interesting to me than Solstice’s. I found them extremely empty, spaced out, and dull.

And then there’s the architecture: we have the Altmer Corelanya, who were expelled from Summerset for going against its cultural norms. So why on earth do they have the exact same architecture as the main Altmer island? Shouldn’t they have something unique or different, at least?

Not to mention the Nords... I mean, they’ve been living in that region for a while now. I feel like they should know that their cold-weather cabins don’t make much sense in a tropical region like that. Not to mention the winter clothing they wear! It’s way too hot for that!

Honestly, I feel like there was a lack of cultural detail this year. And that’s always been something that stood out in the game. I understand that they probably wanted to save on assets, but I really found it out of place.

I think something unique could’ve been done here: imagine if the Altmer and Argonians had somehow managed to build a society together, and that was reflected in their cities—completely unlike anything we’ve seen so far? That would’ve been SO cool!

Since Zenimax had the freedom to do whatever they wanted here, the option they went with just feels... weak.

What do you all think?

You hit the nail on the head with all those points you made. The whole area feels out of place. Like yourself, I enjoy taking the scenery in, and don't forget the lore... Those are two of the main reasons that keep me in ESO: the beauty that the game has to offer and the amazing lore that adds more detail to it.

In all honesty it doesn't feel like the same amount of passion is being invested into ESO anymore

tsaescishoeshiner · July 31

I like the areas of Solstice without enemies and just nice sand dunes. It's peaceful.

It doesn't make sense to me to call it lacking content or lazy, as they could have very easily just added a pack of enemies to these quiet spots, or made the landmass smaller but denser with enemies. It's the same implementation as Blackwood or Cyrodiil, but I find it nicer in Solstice.

It could always benefit from some details like ruins, campsites, interesting plant arrangements, or a discoverable hangout area (like a picnic in the wilds). But ultimately, I just happen to like it.

As far as the intrigue, I think it would be nice if the stories focused a bit more on relationships between the current argonians and altmer. But, there's still much, much more nuance to the zone and lore and history than the basegame zones I'm playing through (doing EP now), so I would say this is an area that's better some years than others. I really liked reading about Solstice's history and seeing it play out in some of the sidequests. But the main quest was the least interesting part--definitely a trend for certain zones.

licenturion · July 31

I agree with your points

When I first loaded up Solstice on the PTR and travelled through it I was very disappointed because for the first time it felt like 90 percent recycled assets with some new stuff sprinkled in the public dungeon and a delve.

I wait until the second part is out. Although from what I have seen in the trailer and the trial I expect more reuse of cold harbour assets and not much exciting new stuff.

Biomes, zone variety and lore is something that made me try and keep playing ESO for years. But this is the first time a new zone feels very lazy and cheap. I won’t buy the next chapter/pass next year if they go for another lazy asset recycle attempt like this. It is extremely underwhelming compared to zones like high isle, apocrypha and even west weald.

Liukke · July 31

This came as a surprise to me too.
I really dislike modern ESO, it feels like since high isle (or even earlier) they lost their creative team and they are either working with a skeleton crew or just with not good people. Everything feels half-assed, especially in the storytelling, and I'm replaying the main stories since my wife has started playing recently and wow...those things were something else.

It's even more surprising since gold road felt good to me, I had the hope that there was a shift in the creative design, it looked cool (including delves and caves) but in the end it's the same 1 city with 4 houses + 2-3 villages and call it a region. The awe towards the cool graphics immediately died after a day of nothing to do...and the group events were basically wait until the invincibility phase is over and attack again.

Solstice has lost that small amount of graphical uniqueness that was there until now, so you have now 1 city with 4 houses in a sea of recycled assets and call it a chapter.

agelonestar · July 31

I hate to say it (especially after West Weald, which I thought was brilliant), but the Solstice quests were badly written, derivative, and repetitive. The only quest that was any good was the one involving Meridia's temple in the north-west of the zone.

The zone itself feels lazily designed too - there's nothing to it.

I sincerely hope the rest of the "season" improves very significantly, because for what I have paid I have NOT seen good value. IMO, this year so far has been the absolute worst of ZoS.

Nemesis7884 · July 31

Probably half the team replaced by the radiant quest ai from skyrim and star field

Dino-Jr · July 31

My take is the public dungeon, delves, and world bosses are pretty great and feel uniquely crafted. The world bosses especially are some of my favorite. The areas of the overland map dedicated to argonians are pretty good to. I kinda wish almost the entire island was argonian focused, that stuff was solid.

I dont mind the reuse of the city assets. This will sound silly but I think the thing that has bothered me the most is the random splashes of pink coloring on grass. None of that feels integrated or explainable with the environment, more just randomly pasted. The entire zone and its setting is at its best at night.

Im hopeful when the next half of the island is released it will feel more “complete” from a lore and setting perspective.

AzuraFan · July 31

I'm enjoying the story so far (not quite finished yet - I've been taking it slow). But the zone feels empty in the sense that there's nothing interesting to see when riding around. No lush vegetation, few things like wagons, camps you stumble across, etc. When I compare Telvanni Peninsula (also a smallish zone) to Solstice, it's night and day.

Having said that, Sunport is really well done.

tomofhyrule · July 31

I haven’t started the story yet, but a lot of that is just being so tired of generic stories. Especially when ESO is up against things like the Oblivion remake, or yet another Skyrim playthrough, or going back to the masterpiece that was Baldur’s Gate 3, the stories just can’t measure up.

I know there’s a whole thread on this, but the excitement they had about the villains being irredeemable is just… ugh. Stories with compelling and complex characters - heroes and villians who all have shades of grey - are much more interesting since you actually need to think about how you want to react. I remember my first BG3 playthrough when I got to the end boss choice of who to support, I actually had to turn off the game so I could discuss it with myself and figure out who I should support.

I’m also noticing that ESO has also been on a “you’d better rush to do the story or else we’ll spoil it for you in the news posts!” kick. Like how Gold Road’s reveal straight up started with the major spoiler from the end of Necrom’s story, and now we have a Loremaster article that directly contains Solstice spoilers. That’s just making me feel rushed, which makes me inherently less interested to do the story.

But I do know one thing that got spoiled for me already, and it’s something that I know I’m going to hate in the story when it happens. STOP. BRINGING. CHARACTERS. BACK. FROM. THE. DEAD. Infinite resurrection because people are shipping themselves with some NPC really cheapens death in the first place, and then it also cheapens the story that they died in in the first place.

Just off the top of my head, from ones who have magically returned:

Raz can die in one of the Reaper’s March quests
Sai or Lyris can die in the main quest
Darien dies at the end of the main quest

And note I’m not counting Arana since she comes back in the same story and note in a later questline. I’m also not including any Solstice surprises that have already been leaked.

What’s the same about all of these?

Like for the most part the dialogue is just “yeah, idk, don’t think about it.” It really gives serious “Somehow, Palpatine returned” vibes.

The one death/resurrection that worked was Darien from basegame to Summerset, and that worked because they planted the seeds of that in basegame - he’s got lorebooks in Glenumbra that already talk about him having some connection to the supernatural, so when he disappears (conveniently not *dying onscreen*), his return in Summerset as an agent of Meridia is really good… and then it fits that he sacrifices his mortal self to purify the Dawnbreaker.

Let’s see how Solstice tries to explain him coming back again without completely neutering his Summerset arc…

katanagirl1 · July 31

I agree with a lot of these points, the beach areas are very bare. There could be more palm trees and grass, coastal areas tend to have vegetation to prevent erosion if not disturbed by humans. Flora and fauna especially are often placed in zones that make no sense to me. Sure, I could see Reef Guardians but Lamia? Why would they be there? What about Voriplasms? This is an island but it doesn’t seem to be swampy like Murkmire. I don’t even know if small islands can have swamps in real life. Tamriel as a whole would be more realistic if plant species and animals fit the geography and climate as a whole.

The main story is building up to something but we don’t know how it will end, so I have to take a rain check on that decision. I did enjoy the story in Tainted Leel, and the story behind the Tide-Born is really intriguing. You have to read the lorebooks and listen to the npcs to get that info, though.

The reuse of Summerset architecture is going to be a plus for those who want more Alinor structural furnishings, so I am happy for that. The Tide-Born furnishings are a nice sea-themed version of Argonian furnishings so I hope to get more of those as well, including a house later on. Unfortunately, any house would be a year or more in the future, I am afraid. They are just now putting Colovian houses in the Crown store and everyone is probably done with that zone, I know I am. I am excited to decorate in the new zone now and a year from now that excitement will have cooled. I wish they would realize that timing these things better would net them more Crown sales.

preevious · July 31

My main gripe with solstice it that they divide a chapter-sized zone in two. Wich mean that we get only one big zone (like, summerset-sized).

And we don't get the small zone dlc.
So in the end, it's less content, and it's a bit dispointing.

CoronHR · July 31

i was thinking that the altmer architecture was too same-y. but i also thought they did a fairly good job of integrating it with argonian architecture, which offhand would sound like a major clash. the rest of the island seems fine, but it's definitely an issue that it's half a zone, and when the whole zone releases, we'll still be minus half a zone in comparison to other expansions (as Preevious says)

Koshka · July 31

I agree that the island is really bare. The art assets themselves are really pretty, but they are spread thin in many areas, it feels almost auto-generated. And while I don't hate the idea of the altmer and argonian mix, the nord village feels sort of out of place. Especially since they reused the old assets - I think it would've been much more fun if the nords tried to recreate traditional nordic architecture, but with local materials.

katanagirl1 · August 1

Koshka wrote: »

I agree that the island is really bare. The art assets themselves are really pretty, but they are spread thin in many areas, it feels almost auto-generated. And while I don't hate the idea of the altmer and argonian mix, the nord village feels sort of out of place. Especially since they reused the old assets - I think it would've been much more fun if the nords tried to recreate traditional nordic architecture, but with local materials.

Oh yeah, that’s a good point. I don’t remember a lot of big timber trees. You could argue the Altmer brought lumber with them but not the Nords.

Imperial_Archmage · August 1

FabresFour wrote: »

What do you all think?

I think that they completely missed the mark with this chapter (or whatever they’re calling it now) and it’s the first one I haven’t bought nor do I intend to, I don’t even know if I will play through it when it eventually becomes free. Assuming I still subscribe to ESO+ by then which is a big if with the way things are going. The entire thing was recycled content, from the copy and paste architecture to the resurgence of the Worm Cult. It feels like it was cobbled together on a Friday afternoon by the intern who drew the shortest straw that day. It feels phoned in and extremely low effort. I know they had major layoffs recently but this was all designed before that so it can’t be the excuse and frankly may even be one of the reasons for the firings because it was subpar work product.

xbluerosesx · August 2

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I haven’t started the story yet, but a lot of that is just being so tired of generic stories. Especially when ESO is up against things like the Oblivion remake, or yet another Skyrim playthrough, or going back to the masterpiece that was Baldur’s Gate 3, the stories just can’t measure up.

I know there’s a whole thread on this, but the excitement they had about the villains being irredeemable is just… ugh. Stories with compelling and complex characters - heroes and villians who all have shades of grey - are much more interesting since you actually need to think about how you want to react. I remember my first BG3 playthrough when I got to the end boss choice of who to support, I actually had to turn off the game so I could discuss it with myself and figure out who I should support.

I’m also noticing that ESO has also been on a “you’d better rush to do the story or else we’ll spoil it for you in the news posts!” kick. Like how Gold Road’s reveal straight up started with the major spoiler from the end of Necrom’s story, and now we have a Loremaster article that directly contains Solstice spoilers. That’s just making me feel rushed, which makes me inherently less interested to do the story.

But I do know one thing that got spoiled for me already, and it’s something that I know I’m going to hate in the story when it happens. STOP. BRINGING. CHARACTERS. BACK. FROM. THE. DEAD. Infinite resurrection because people are shipping themselves with some NPC really cheapens death in the first place, and then it also cheapens the story that they died in in the first place.

Just off the top of my head, from ones who have magically returned:
Raz can die in one of the Reaper’s March quests

Sai or Lyris can die in the main quest

Darien dies at the end of the main quest

And note I’m not counting Arana since she comes back in the same story and note in a later questline. I’m also not including any Solstice surprises that have already been leaked.

What’s the same about all of these?

Like for the most part the dialogue is just “yeah, idk, don’t think about it.” It really gives serious “Somehow, Palpatine returned” vibes.

The one death/resurrection that worked was Darien from basegame to Summerset, and that worked because they planted the seeds of that in basegame - he’s got lorebooks in Glenumbra that already talk about him having some connection to the supernatural, so when he disappears (conveniently not *dying onscreen*), his return in Summerset as an agent of Meridia is really good… and then it fits that he sacrifices his mortal self to purify the Dawnbreaker.
Let’s see how Solstice tries to explain him coming back again without completely neutering his Summerset arc…

This pretty much.

FabresFour · August 3

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I haven’t started the story yet, but a lot of that is just being so tired of generic stories. Especially when ESO is up against things like the Oblivion remake, or yet another Skyrim playthrough, or going back to the masterpiece that was Baldur’s Gate 3, the stories just can’t measure up.

I know there’s a whole thread on this, but the excitement they had about the villains being irredeemable is just… ugh. Stories with compelling and complex characters - heroes and villians who all have shades of grey - are much more interesting since you actually need to think about how you want to react. I remember my first BG3 playthrough when I got to the end boss choice of who to support, I actually had to turn off the game so I could discuss it with myself and figure out who I should support.

I’m also noticing that ESO has also been on a “you’d better rush to do the story or else we’ll spoil it for you in the news posts!” kick. Like how Gold Road’s reveal straight up started with the major spoiler from the end of Necrom’s story, and now we have a Loremaster article that directly contains Solstice spoilers. That’s just making me feel rushed, which makes me inherently less interested to do the story.

But I do know one thing that got spoiled for me already, and it’s something that I know I’m going to hate in the story when it happens. STOP. BRINGING. CHARACTERS. BACK. FROM. THE. DEAD. Infinite resurrection because people are shipping themselves with some NPC really cheapens death in the first place, and then it also cheapens the story that they died in in the first place.

Just off the top of my head, from ones who have magically returned:
Raz can die in one of the Reaper’s March quests

Sai or Lyris can die in the main quest

Darien dies at the end of the main quest

And note I’m not counting Arana since she comes back in the same story and note in a later questline. I’m also not including any Solstice surprises that have already been leaked.

What’s the same about all of these?

Like for the most part the dialogue is just “yeah, idk, don’t think about it.” It really gives serious “Somehow, Palpatine returned” vibes.

The one death/resurrection that worked was Darien from basegame to Summerset, and that worked because they planted the seeds of that in basegame - he’s got lorebooks in Glenumbra that already talk about him having some connection to the supernatural, so when he disappears (conveniently not *dying onscreen*), his return in Summerset as an agent of Meridia is really good… and then it fits that he sacrifices his mortal self to purify the Dawnbreaker.
Let’s see how Solstice tries to explain him coming back again without completely neutering his Summerset arc…

"Darien dies at the end of the main quest"

Just a correction—Darien doesn’t die at the end of the Main Quest. What happens to him is a mystery: he disappears into golden light. I remember when I played the main quest back in 2014, I was left wondering what had happened, especially because the base game heavily implies that he’s much more important than it ultimately gives him credit for. You find his journals in Glenumbra and elsewhere, which already connect him to being a Knight of Meridia—I mean, he even foresaw the Dark Anchors thanks to Meridia’s prophetic dreams, he's the only person capable of surviving the Bloodthorn's deadly mist, and his healing abilities are so powerful that they prevent him from turning into a bloodfiend after being bitten. So, the mystery of the Golden Knight has existed ever since the game launched. But it was clearly a case of not dying. He reeeeaaaaally dies in 2018, with Summerset.

Solstice Spoiler:

And I have to admit, his return is a bit confusing. I always thought he’d come back as a villain. The final message he leaves for the player makes it very clear that he isn’t dying, but rather being absorbed into Meridia’s Realm—losing his essence (the Words of the Fallen journal). I always imagined he’d return as a "renegade" or something like that. It would’ve made for a really interesting and tragic story. But oh well.

Other than that, I 100% agree with you. And to add to that list: Arana, everyone from Markarth, Verandis Ravenwatch.

PureeEvil · August 3

My problem with the new chapter is that I'm a necromancer, and the chapter is about necromancers. Despite the fact that I haven't played any story content for a long time because it's not interesting, it's been a long time since I've read any children's stories or narratives (hello, story scribing. "Oh, the squirrels are running wild, go do something about it"). Despite the fact that I spend most of my time in PVP. I was planning to purchase the chapter because of the necromancer masks. However, when I saw the vanilla design, it reminded me of some like Zelda.

Dark fantasy is turning into some kind of lame Ghibli anime. The latest designs are some kind of vanilla shambles for Disney princesses. We haven't received any new decent skull masks for several chapters. And for the chapter dedicated to necromancers, we were given something that couldn't even scare Del Torro with his childish design.

In general, ZOS, you lost my purchase because of the designers who seemed to be drawing a children's book instead of a dark fantasy one.

xbluerosesx · August 3

PureeEvil wrote: »

My problem with the new chapter is that I'm a necromancer, and the chapter is about necromancers.

I love the fact that Solstice was founded by a clan of altmer necromancers, yet the Stirk leader, a redguard, y'know a race that hates necromancers doesn't freaking comment on it at all

/s

Huge missed opportunity ZOS

cyberjanet · August 29

MGRza wrote: »

In all honesty it doesn't feel like the same amount of passion is being invested into ESO anymore

Says it all.

cyberjanet · August 29

Imperial_Archmage wrote: »

It feels like it was cobbled together on a Friday afternoon by the intern who drew the shortest straw that day.

There is so much clickbait on the Internet about micromanagers just not understanding the departments or jobs they've just stepped into. The Intern would probably do a half-decent job.

I tried playing through Solstice last night, and it has left me speechlessly depressed. Has a human even seen it, or is it all AI? I am on 5/5 and I couldn't bear to finish that, even though it is clear the story will continue past 5, as it did before.

tomofhyrule · August 29

Well, I've finished the story, and it's a thing that exists.

I still stand by my original statements. At least this wasn't High Isle levels of bad, but it was really formulaic. I was really hoping for my "Meridia is actually a villian" story, but I guess that's too high-concept.

It does feel like the emotion is totally robbed though because of the penchant for bringing characters back. I see a character die and instead of being like "oh no! [Character] is dead! This is such a powerful story!" I'm just sitting here wondering what kind of excuse they're gonna bring up in the next part to bring that person back from the dead.

I'm also really not a fan of this new method of "if you don't do the main quest within the first month, we'll spoil it for you" storytelling. It was like that with Necrom, when the reveal event for Gold Road straight up told us what happened in the Necrom story, and it's like that now. And I can only imagine they'll continue with that...

metheglyn · August 29

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Well, I've finished the story, and it's a thing that exists.

I still stand by my original statements. At least this wasn't High Isle levels of bad, but it was really formulaic. I was really hoping for my "Meridia is actually a villian" story, but I guess that's too high-concept.

It does feel like the emotion is totally robbed though because of the penchant for bringing characters back. I see a character die and instead of being like "oh no! [Character] is dead! This is such a powerful story!" I'm just sitting here wondering what kind of excuse they're gonna bring up in the next part to bring that person back from the dead.

I'm also really not a fan of this new method of "if you don't do the main quest within the first month, we'll spoil it for you" storytelling. It was like that with Necrom, when the reveal event for Gold Road straight up told us what happened in the Necrom story, and it's like that now. And I can only imagine they'll continue with that...

I would enjoy a "Meridia is a actually a villain" story as well. She's far too brutal to be considered one of the "good" Daedric Princes. She really has worked the long con pretty well.

I agree on character deaths being robbed of any emotional impact these days. Everyone coming back from the dead in a not very plausible way (or just sort of hand-waving it aside) makes for a weaker story.

Gabriel_H · August 29

FabresFour wrote: »

Not to mention the Nords... I mean, they’ve been living in that region for a while now. I feel like they should know that their cold-weather cabins don’t make much sense in a tropical region like that. Not to mention the winter clothing they wear! It’s way too hot for that!

We Nords are stubborn and set in our ways!

katanagirl1 · August 29

I would prefer that they didn’t kill any longstanding characters off. In order to do that, you have to keep coming up with interesting and memorable characters to replace them. Game of Thrones did this very well. The last memorable characters in ESO for me were Khamira and the Reach lady Arana, which was many years ago now, so I am not confident that this will work very well.

xbluerosesx · August 29

FabresFour wrote: »

the Nords... I mean, they’ve been living in that region for a while now. I feel like they should know that their cold-weather cabins don’t make much sense in a tropical region like that. Not to mention the winter clothing they wear! It’s way too hot for that!

"But if they aren't dressed in furs how will our players know they're nords?"

-IDK, some ZOS dev probably

biovitalb16_ESO · August 30

I came back to the game after a 7/8 month hiatus, after playing through Solstice I was bored to tears. This was the most uninspired DLC in ESO's history. It's basically as if Murkmire and Blackwood had a baby and all content was stripped out of it. If this is the future of this game, it's not very bright.

AzuraFan · August 30

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I would prefer that they didn’t kill any longstanding characters off. In order to do that, you have to keep coming up with interesting and memorable characters to replace them.

Longstanding characters also tend to be standing somewhere else in the world. It's kind of hard to care about a death when you can find the character alive and well after the fact, behaving as if nothing happened.

Hotdog_23 · August 30

My thought is they have become too conservative in the last several years by avoiding making any real decision that really matters and is meant to be permanent. Such as a character's death. The stories to me are bare and vanilla. They always talk about making great stories, and I always laugh at myself whenever I hear them say that. Each year’s stories can literally be written on one page. Sure, not all the dialogues, but the meat and potatoes of the story.

We all know the other game ZOS was making did take a lot of resources and people away from ESO. Feel bad for those that lost their job and livelihood from the cancellation. My hope is it will refocus ZOS and double their efforts back into ESO and stop phoning in the stories and environments.

One of the reasons I am unhappy with one of the new dungeons is that it requires a group to even see all the dungeon. Since we are getting so little new stuff, it would be nice to be able to take my time and enjoy the story and environment without the feeling of having been on a timer since others could be waiting on me so they can continue their own story as well.

Stay safe