Warden Charm's cooldown needs to be increased

hoangdz · August 5

Warden Class Mastery Script is one of the most broken "abilities" in the game, especially if used defensively. This is how it functions:

Not only does it snare players for 70% in an 8m radius, it also charms them for 3s (which btw is still a buggy mechanic and can cause them to get stuck in objects or unable to break free out of). If nobody gets charmed, you restore 1.4k mag AND stam.

Like.. What?? Standard CC immunity duration is 7s, and this skill has an 8s cooldown. If you use the Charm off cooldown, you will maintain a 87.5% uptime on this effect lol.. Even if you don't stun anybody, you are still snaring them by 70% and also netting 1.4k stam AND mag which translates to 358 stam and mag recovery.

If you've ever fought players using the Charm, you'll know just how absurd it is when used defensively. Most players use the Warden Charm on Healing Soul, so the only 2 options you have are:

1) You pop an immovable potion which lasts 16s and requires you to save it for that specific offensive window. If your opponent can survive the window then you may not have another shot.
2) You have so much burst that they die before the Charm effect takes place.

Otherwise, it's almost a guaranteed recover for whoever is using this script. That is exactly why the majority of sweaty players swapped to Warden base class despite only using 1 Warden line. It's to gain access to this class script lol.

Warden Charm needs to have its duration increased to 15s at the very least so that players can't just spam it off cooldown and maintain an almost 100% uptime. It's absurd.

huskandhunger · August 5

Yes

Turtle_Bot · August 5

Charm as a mechanic in general has always been a buggy mess (as seen when Arc was literally everywhere on release in PvP because charm was so bugged it basically perma CC locked anyone it hit) so the entire mechanic just needs removing/remaking from the ground up. The only reason we didn't see this effect be an issue before the Arc charm meta was because the only skill that had a charm effect was the vampire skill that is so completely useless for combat that nobody used/uses it.

Tbh, I really don't know why warden was given a charm effect for the class script either. I could understand an immobilize or normal stun (freezing the target in ice fits the ice theme, or a "summon" knocking the target down fits the animal companion theme, or entangling vines fits the green balance theme) since any of those would allow scribing skills to replace the complete mess that Arctic Blast was changed into with a reliable CC, but charm as a mechanic, effect or theme just doesn't fit any of warden's themes.

SkaiFaith · August 5

On Banner Bearer, Warden Master script is the only one that triggers every 10 seconds instead of 5 exactly for that reason.
10 seems reasonable.
More would be too punishing if, let's say, you waste your effect. You would have to wait too much and it could result in an insta-death in many PvP situations.
But don't crucify me for this opinion - I'm no dedicated PvPer, just occasional, giving my two cents.

MincMincMinc · August 5

Haven't we already been through this song and dance with the old fears breaking the game?

Why can't my dizzy do the old 38% more damage with a knockup when stuff like this exists? Really a large aoe undodgeable unblockable Charm that is timeable with any of the strongest ults in the game like dbos or merciless?

JaxontheUnfortunate · August 5

Honestly charm needs to be sent back to the drawing board and go through pts testing. It’s an interesting effect but is broken in its current state. Considering how strong it is there should definitely be a cool down so it can’t be stacked in a single player requiring multiple successive break frees.

YandereGirlfriend · August 5

Agreed.

Charm is a buggy scourge that should be relegated to the dustbin of history.

MincMincMinc · August 5

The charm is strong enough that it should just be its own skill if anything. IDK replace the class script with minor defile or minor vitality and put the charm on a healing seed morph. Or maybe put it on the greenbalance ult so it can double as a heal and aoe stun in the area

Eteson24 · August 5

For real, it charms you even when you're outside the circle.

It's also been getting me stuck in keeps a lot this past week. It usually happens when someone places it on a ledge and if you drop down, it pulls you back up and gets you stuck in the wall.

The_Meathead · August 6

This is about the fifth post about this I've seen in the past few days...

... and we need about five more.

Warden Charm is a buggy outlier that combines with some of the most already frustrating stuff in the game to be WAY too effective. Definitely needs attention.

hoangdz · August 6

It's even worse when people use it offensively with RoA and Ambush

Fissure > Contingency with Warden Charm > Ambush

Due to the slight delay in Ambush, Contingency will only proc when you finish the Ambush animation, which often puts you directly on the target. This essentially creates an almost uncounterable combo where Ambush procs RoA and Contingency (which also procs Warden Charm). RoA forces you to block, and Warden Charm ignores block lol. You can't really roll dodge out of it either because RoA would just pull you back in, then you would also get charmed regardless lol. There's practically almost no counter play unless you have a source of CC immunity available.

Kaelthorn_Nightbloom · August 6

The unblockable AoE fear that guarantees 1s crowd control (1.5s in lag) before you can block again needs a nerf as well.

ESO_Nightingale · August 6

i really want them to just rework warden's class mastery into something different. i wish it had some kind of dps benefit in pve instead of being an obnoxious stun that (if it doesn't stun restores resources for some reason)

Zyaneth_Bal · August 6

SkaiFaith wrote: »

On Banner Bearer, Warden Master script is the only one that triggers every 10 seconds instead of 5 exactly for that reason.
10 seems reasonable.
More would be too punishing if, let's say, you waste your effect. You would have to wait too much and it could result in an insta-death in many PvP situations.
But don't crucify me for this opinion - I'm no dedicated PvPer, just occasional, giving my two cents.

It wouldn’t be punishing because the effect still provides a very strong slow and restores a crazy amount of resources if you don’t hit a target. Not to mention that the cc is so strong that even 10s cd wouldn’t be enough.

Rather than trying to fix a poorly designed and an outright broken mechanic it should be scrapped and replaced with something new entirely. Could indeed be something to help warden dd in pve.

Zyaneth_Bal · August 6

hoangdz wrote: »

It's even worse when people use it offensively with RoA and Ambush

Fissure > Contingency with Warden Charm > Ambush

Due to the slight delay in Ambush, Contingency will only proc when you finish the Ambush animation, which often puts you directly on the target. This essentially creates an almost uncounterable combo where Ambush procs RoA and Contingency (which also procs Warden Charm). RoA forces you to block, and Warden Charm ignores block lol. You can't really roll dodge out of it either because RoA would just pull you back in, then you would also get charmed regardless lol. There's practically almost no counter play unless you have a source of CC immunity available.

Contingency works the same way with all gap closers. It is intentional and has nothing to do with any delays.

Indeed, I assumed that due to misleading animation and have been corrected, only gap closers with cast time (teleport strike) proc contingency at end point, instant cast ones proc it at start point even though animation plays later.

CameraBeardThePirate · August 6

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Charm as a mechanic in general has always been a buggy mess (as seen when Arc was literally everywhere on release in PvP because charm was so bugged it basically perma CC locked anyone it hit) so the entire mechanic just needs removing/remaking from the ground up. The only reason we didn't see this effect be an issue before the Arc charm meta was because the only skill that had a charm effect was the vampire skill that is so completely useless for combat that nobody used/uses it.

Tbh, I really don't know why warden was given a charm effect for the class script either. I could understand an immobilize or normal stun (freezing the target in ice fits the ice theme, or a "summon" knocking the target down fits the animal companion theme, or entangling vines fits the green balance theme) since any of those would allow scribing skills to replace the complete mess that Arctic Blast was changed into with a reliable CC, but charm as a mechanic, effect or theme just doesn't fit any of warden's themes.

Vamp fear doesn't, nor did it ever, have a charm attached. Vamp fear is a fear, and by the time that skill came out, fear was just a normal stun that you can't block or dodge.

Old fear (like circa 2017) was the "charm" effect. Back then, fear worked like charm does now but targets ran away from you, not towards you.

CameraBeardThePirate · August 6

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

It's even worse when people use it offensively with RoA and Ambush

Fissure > Contingency with Warden Charm > Ambush

Due to the slight delay in Ambush, Contingency will only proc when you finish the Ambush animation, which often puts you directly on the target. This essentially creates an almost uncounterable combo where Ambush procs RoA and Contingency (which also procs Warden Charm). RoA forces you to block, and Warden Charm ignores block lol. You can't really roll dodge out of it either because RoA would just pull you back in, then you would also get charmed regardless lol. There's practically almost no counter play unless you have a source of CC immunity available.

Contingency works the same way with all gap closers. It is intentional and has nothing to do with any delays.

No, Contingency works different with Ambush/Lotus Fan than other gap closers. It's not even that hard to test yourself, so don't spread misinformation.

With Ambush/Lotus Fan, Contingency procs at the destination. With all other gap closers, the effect procs at your starting point.

The animation itself always shows up at the destination, but the animation is incorrect on everything except Ambush/Lotus Fan.

This is because of the cast time. Contingency procs when resources are consumed. With most gap closers, resources are consumed BEFORE you gap close (i.e., the instant you press the skill). Ambush/Lotus Fan have a cast time during the actual travel portion, so resources are consumed upon arrival at the destination.

What this means in practice is that Ambush/Lotus Fan is the only gap closer you can use to pre-load an immobilize+charm at your destination. Otherwise, you need to cast Contingency once you arrive, giving people time to counterplay between the rush pull and the Charm.

hoangdz · August 6

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

It's even worse when people use it offensively with RoA and Ambush

Fissure > Contingency with Warden Charm > Ambush

Due to the slight delay in Ambush, Contingency will only proc when you finish the Ambush animation, which often puts you directly on the target. This essentially creates an almost uncounterable combo where Ambush procs RoA and Contingency (which also procs Warden Charm). RoA forces you to block, and Warden Charm ignores block lol. You can't really roll dodge out of it either because RoA would just pull you back in, then you would also get charmed regardless lol. There's practically almost no counter play unless you have a source of CC immunity available.

Contingency works the same way with all gap closers. It is intentional and has nothing to do with any delays.

No lol. I’ve literally tested it myself. Ambush is the only gap closer that behaves with contingency that way. If all gap closers worked like that, then you would see contingency with other gap closers.

danko355 · August 6

Charm is disgusting and should be completely removed from the game, or completely reworked. Look at this, this is the most overloaded PVP skill in the game at the moment:

You get the best burst heal in the game PLUS aoe 70% root PLUS aoe stun PLUS any cool major buff, like Major vitality. This is better than TWO of Nightblade's skills combined, Mass Hysteria and Healthy Offering. Healthy offering actually has the same tooltip. Charm is arguably even better than Mass Hysteria as you can prepare additional combo piece while waiting for the Charm and then burst your opponent down with multiple skills in the same GCD. Why choose any other class in PVP, if you can take Animal Companion and literally any other 2 OP pvp lines, like Assassination, Grave Lord, etc.

I haven't even started on how many times my game experience was ruined by buggy Charm leading me directly into the ground/wall/tree, etc. I had to abandon at least 5 BGs due to me being stuck somewhere without the possibility to do anything, even die.

MincMincMinc · August 6

Just put the charm on one of the green balance ult morphs and be done with it. Combine the other two morphs and there ya go.

gc0018 · August 8

it is so terrible, 4v4 battlegroup is not playable with all-warden armies around. Compared to necro's fear, warden's charm is movable, don't need to be cast and has longer control time (charm always has some hard control time which you can't break free at all).

robpr · August 8

Remember when forced 'run away' effect was removed from Fear status because it was buggy and made people stuck in geometry? Let's make the same effect but in opposite direction, I'm sure everything will be fine!

acastanza_ESO · August 10

Charm should be removed entirely from the class script. It has ZERO to do with Warden and such a strong (nearly) unique effect never had any business being given to one specific class at all.

danko355 · August 10

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Charm should be removed entirely from the class script. It has ZERO to do with Warden and such a strong (nearly) unique effect never had any business being given to one specific class at all.

Yes, this script only makes Warden the one and only best PVP class at the moment.

WreckfulAbandon · August 10

There was no need to add Charm in the first place but the fact this can be added onto Healing Soul is just laughable. Gotta be the most overloaded ability in the game with the Warden signature skill tacked on and no other class signature script even comes close to being as strong.

YandereGirlfriend · August 10

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

There was no need to add Charm in the first place but the fact this can be added onto Healing Soul is just laughable. Gotta be the most overloaded ability in the game with the Warden signature skill tacked on and no other class signature script even comes close to being as strong.

Definitely. The advent of the Charm came completely out of nowhere. Especially after they (wisely) eliminated the old Fear mechanics. It was bad on Faun's Lark a few years ago but it only got worse after it became so widely accessible.

Turtle_Bot · August 11

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

There was no need to add Charm in the first place but the fact this can be added onto Healing Soul is just laughable. Gotta be the most overloaded ability in the game with the Warden signature skill tacked on and no other class signature script even comes close to being as strong.

what's even worse is that the sustain script used to only be 1000 of each resource returned (and was nerfed to 600) but that script was pure sustain, nothing else, but the warden charm also restores nearly 50% more resources if it doesn't CC than the resource restore script did at it strongest point.

xylena_lazarow · August 14

Make it a normal stun, not a resurrected Fear bug from 5 years ago. Now everyone counters it like normal.

It's pretty janky and unreliable to use the way people just step out of it to counter it for 0 resources, especially if you're trying to dynamically combo, even moreso if you need to take an offensive gcd off to press a burst heal. There's like 3 non trash PvP stuns, so having a NORMAL STUN on the Warden class script would seem welcome to me.

What roleplay were they even going for that they couldn't use a normal stun? They really had to resurrect old bugs?

ZOS_GregoryV · August 14

Greetings,

Upon review, we have decided to lock this thread as it is identical to this thread here.

Regards,
-Greg-