CheeseTuber wrote: »

Mojey87 wrote: »

i dont understand some comments on this thread, against anti-cheat!!
well if you dont cheat then what are you afraid of? what the impact that anti-cheat will do to your game except it will make it safe from any who like to take advantage over other players.

That shows you have no idea about cybersecurity, and why giving root-level access to any program is a bad idea. Just look at Crowdstrike. One wrong patch screwed over half the world.

Most people aren't against Anti-Cheat. I would be happy if they implemented some form of anti-cheat, but most of what you have in the market are anti-cheats that run Kernel drivers. Personally, I don't want any program to have kernel-level access. That is just a bad idea. That is like recruiting a private company security to protect your house, but instead of them patrolling the perimeter or boundary, they have full access to your house, even your bedroom and have full right to lock you out of your bedroom, all because you are afraid of someone accessing your bedroom safe.

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

The only thing I still use my Windows partition for is gaming, and the only 2 games I still play on it are Civ V and ESO. Moving to a console for Battlefield 1 was eye opening: no cheaters. <Insert chorus of heavenly voices.> The PC version eventually became an absolute joke, with every server infested with cheaters using god-mode hacks. I will never play a competitive game on PC again, regardless of all the FPS and resolution and mod arguments.

It took awhile for me to understand that someone who "360 no-scoped" me was legit, but I followed a YouTuber who played on my platform, and learned that you could, in fact, be *that* good and not cheat. I eventually turned my sensitivity settings all the way up and got competitive. The relief of knowing that, if I got bested, it was due to skill and not hacking was immense.

While I'd love to see ESO move calculations back to the client side for performance, there is no anti-cheat technology on PC that doesn't eventually get broken, and then the problem is worse than server-side calculations. The hacks will have an even bigger effect on the outcomes in the game than current issues, and you'll get a whole sub-forum for reporting cheaters and constant arguing about who is and who isn't. Arguments over macros are already bad enough. Arguments over actual hacks would take over the game, and every time you got killed, and didn't understand what happened, you'd suspect cheating, and it would make you even madder. I'm doubt even OP would want this inevitable outcome.

Tandor wrote: »

Markytous wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Markytous wrote: »

Many years ago, before the fear of data breach or hackers ruining the gameplay, the game's packet calculations (your healing, damage, character spreadsheet, etc.) were handled by your Elder Scrolls Online client! The game started development in 2007, being Zenimax Online Studios' first project, our beloved ESO! Some time between 2018-2019 (I can no longer recall specifics), our server calculations were reconfigured from Client checks to Server checks to increase security of the game. While this prevented a sizable amount of player tampering with code and calculations, it came to the detriment to the server performance. You see, the game was designed to be played with Client-sided packet calculations in mind over a decade before the change. We've never managed to restore performance back to what it was in 2017 and before. It has nothing to do with your sets, skills, procs or what have you! It is simply that the calculations per player in instances has become much more complex, increasing the load that the server has to handle at any given moment.

Cyrodiil can be enjoyed once again in the way we did long ago! The only solution I can propose is that we work together to make Client-Side Server Calculations a reality again. This is no easy task because of the security issues that may come with it. I am willing to put up with ANY and ALL Anti-Cheat Softwares to enjoy my beloved ESO and Cyrodiil again as I did in those years; wide eyed with wonder exploring the beautiful and treacherous landscapes of Cyrodiil. My aim for this is not to be controversial. I love ESO and I want to see it return to its former glory!

Now, Vengeance? Thats super fun. I don't propose scrapping that at all. But imagine if our Alliance-Locked CP Cyrodiil Server and Vengeance Server could run side-by-side without a hitch! No lag, no performance issues, just straight up fun! We know what works, guys. We played it! Client-Sided Server Calculations can do it. There is no shame in returning to it if we can do so in a safe and secure way. I hope this message reaches all of you well. If nothing results from it, at least I can say that I also did my very best in contributing towards progress in one of my absolute favorite games of all time.

We don't have to imagine anything. We had great or near great performance from 2015-2019. If ZOS could deliver good performance ten years ago, they can do it today.

Why they aren't is the question to put to ZOS. We know they can do it because we've seen them do it. (yes, they delivered decent to good performance with server side calculations) Cyrodiil performance used to IMPROVE during MYM events.

These performance issues are all ZOS and nobody else can fix them except ZOS. People just need to stop running cover for bad business practices. And to be clear, vengeance mode is an example of bad business practice. Instead of fixing their game ZOS is changing the game we have into something totally different.

I am highly satisfied to agree with you on this. While Vengeance is fun to me, if we restored the servers back to Client-Side Calculations we wouldn't need Vengeance at a "test" and it could simply just be a funny game mode on the side. Of course, without performance issues, Vengeance would never exist. I would obviously choose the classic Cyrodiil as they were before the server code changes over the current timeline with endless "Year of Performance" years haha. In that regard, I can see Vengeance as an advertisement of sorts; "We're doing something, guys!". I agree with them that they are doing something to make Server-Sided Calculations work with Vengeance, but the Client Sided ways of the past are the truest solution. No need to rebuild the game's calculations, skills, and etc,.

Conclusion: Client-Sided Server Calculations will save this game. It is now a question of if Zenimax wants to save it or not.

It's more a case of whether they think that allowing rampant cheating once again is a price worth paying to save PvP, as that is what needs saving and not the game as a whole. Covering that by putting in a lot more anti-cheat protections will simply add to the performance issues people complain about already, and probably in relation to a lot more than just the PvP content.

Desiato wrote: »

Of course players still cheat because they didn't really change anything! The kind of changes players imagine happened simply aren't possible without them being extremely obvious to every kind of player.

The ESO server trusts the client about the same things it always has. This has been shown when certain cheats re-emerge, even without actual memory hacking. Like set-based glitching. The client tells the server certain things about the character and the server flat-out believes it. It shows those things aren't being tracked server side. Not only were these not moved server-side, it shows the server or client doesn't even perform the basic low cost sanity checks it should.

The ESO forums... where players will decry anti-cheat and anti-ddos mitigations. Those are both good things. We should wish it had better anticheat.

Desiato wrote: »

Of course players still cheat because they didn't really change anything! The kind of changes players imagine happened simply aren't possible without them being extremely obvious to every kind of player.

Furthermore, changes of that scope would have required rigorous testing. And had they pulled them off so seamlessly, they would have no reason not celebrate them.

The ESO server trusts the client about the same things it always has. This has been shown when certain cheats re-emerge, even without actual memory hacking. Like set-based glitching. The client tells the server certain things about the character and the server flat-out believes it. It shows those things aren't being tracked server side. Not only were these not moved server-side, it shows the server or client don't even perform the basic low cost sanity checks they should.

The ESO forums... where players will decry anti-cheat and anti-ddos mitigations. Those are both good things. We should wish it had better anticheat.

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Markytous wrote: »

Many years ago, before the fear of data breach or hackers ruining the gameplay, the game's packet calculations (your healing, damage, character spreadsheet, etc.) were handled by your Elder Scrolls Online client! The game started development in 2007, being Zenimax Online Studios' first project, our beloved ESO! Some time between 2018-2019 (I can no longer recall specifics), our server calculations were reconfigured from Client checks to Server checks to increase security of the game. While this prevented a sizable amount of player tampering with code and calculations, it came to the detriment to the server performance. You see, the game was designed to be played with Client-sided packet calculations in mind over a decade before the change. We've never managed to restore performance back to what it was in 2017 and before. It has nothing to do with your sets, skills, procs or what have you! It is simply that the calculations per player in instances has become much more complex, increasing the load that the server has to handle at any given moment.

Cyrodiil can be enjoyed once again in the way we did long ago! The only solution I can propose is that we work together to make Client-Side Server Calculations a reality again. This is no easy task because of the security issues that may come with it. I am willing to put up with ANY and ALL Anti-Cheat Softwares to enjoy my beloved ESO and Cyrodiil again as I did in those years; wide eyed with wonder exploring the beautiful and treacherous landscapes of Cyrodiil. My aim for this is not to be controversial. I love ESO and I want to see it return to its former glory!

Now, Vengeance? Thats super fun. I don't propose scrapping that at all. But imagine if our Alliance-Locked CP Cyrodiil Server and Vengeance Server could run side-by-side without a hitch! No lag, no performance issues, just straight up fun! We know what works, guys. We played it! Client-Sided Server Calculations can do it. There is no shame in returning to it if we can do so in a safe and secure way. I hope this message reaches all of you well. If nothing results from it, at least I can say that I also did my very best in contributing towards progress in one of my absolute favorite games of all time.

We don't have to imagine anything. We had great or near great performance from 2015-2019. If ZOS could deliver good performance ten years ago, they can do it today.

Why they aren't is the question to put to ZOS. We know they can do it because we've seen them do it. (yes, they delivered decent to good performance with server side calculations) Cyrodiil performance used to IMPROVE during MYM events.

These performance issues are all ZOS and nobody else can fix them except ZOS. People just need to stop running cover for bad business practices. And to be clear, vengeance mode is an example of bad business practice. Instead of fixing their game ZOS is changing the game we have into something totally different.