What in Oblivion is wrong with this game?

Erinyes_60 · August 3

Please explain to me how Berserker Strike, granted the unmorphed version, can do ZERO damage in non CP battlegrounds? Is this game a scam? It literally states that it ignores resistances. Meanwhile one guy sitting in his rune focus, dunno which morph, tanked half of our team. Was still hitting minimum of 4k with just about everything he was throwing at us.

Turtle_Bot · August 3

Sounds like it could have been a bash build. Some additional context would help a lot here, such as were they using sword and shield? did they have 40k+ health? etc.

Yes, berserker strike will ignore resistances, but it doesn't ignore block mitigation, percent mitigation buffs (protection, evasion, etc.) or damage debuffs (maim, cowardice, etc.).

If enough of those are stacked then it is possible to reduce even ultimates down to basically nothing (not completely zero, but very low such that standing in rune will easily out-heal the damage).

As for hitting you back, bash builds hit hard based on their resistances, but also prefer to stack percent damage modifiers over weapon/spell damage modifiers, so they will hit hard even without weapon/spell damage and reduced resistances.

Something I have found that helps against these builds are unblockable stuns. Javelin is the best since its damage also ignores resistances and block (leaving only percent mitigation and damage reduction debuffs to reduce its damage) and the Aedric spear skill line boosts all damage done to blocking targets by 12% as well (I think it's 12%, someone correct me if it's different). This allows Javelin to reliably hit for 3-4k on these types of builds (same when fighting "troll tank" builds) assuming a competent PvP build that has some damage, allowing it to whittle them down (or force more dodge rolls that drains their stamina extremely quickly) which drops their block for a regular burst to do its thing.

More context would help, but hopefully this explanation helps for now.

PureeEvil · August 3

raising damage is not a problem at all now. Spam attacks with full buffs can hit up to 12k.

But realy dont understand now how some dudes not get any damage or to fast healing. i see that on arc+sorc and sorc+warden.

and in realy that bilds is boring. 2 skills combo + ultimate. i think zos need give more debuff to havy armor in dmg and speed. at now bilds with havy armor parts lose too little in speed and damage.

Erinyes_60 · August 3

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Yes, berserker strike will ignore resistances, but it doesn't ignore block mitigation, percent mitigation buffs (protection, evasion, etc.) or damage debuffs (maim, cowardice, etc.).

The dude was using a bow... I suspect one bar Oakensoul with a metric ton of heavy armor since he didn't swap to any back bar. Insane that he had the most kills. His health bar would not go down, I don't think he died more than 3 times. Mostly poison injection spam and take flight for his ult. Pretty innocuous stuff. Except that he did too much damage for an insanely tanky build. And none of that animal companion crutch that gives free damage to tank types. Full tank yet he dealt more damage than brawlers. But no ice staff or sword and board for block mitigation.

I think I've met the closest thing to a sentry gun in ESO BGs... When I can't wrap my brain around such a thing and I also see my whole team, presumably more experienced than me, get demolished I start to hate this game. If I can't break down the sets and buffs I won't just chalk it up to "it is what it is get gud"...

Erinyes_60 · August 3

PureeEvil wrote: »

But realy dont understand now how some dudes not get any damage or to fast healing. i see that on arc+sorc and sorc+warden.

It's less about the armor passives, which help don't get me wrong, but it's more about the class kits. Sorc/warden or Arc/warden, pretty much anything warden suddenly becomes unkillable. But I don't want to start another war in the comments about how imbalanced sorc and warden are... We have subclassing, if you can't beat them, join them. My problem is with some builds that just don't make sense. They shouldn't work and realistically don't work. Except for that one player that just kills the whole enemy lobby single handedly.

PureeEvil · August 3

Erinyes_60 wrote: »

PureeEvil wrote: »

But realy dont understand now how some dudes not get any damage or to fast healing. i see that on arc+sorc and sorc+warden.

It's less about the armor passives, which help don't get me wrong, but it's more about the class kits. Sorc/warden or Arc/warden, pretty much anything warden suddenly becomes unkillable. But I don't want to start another war in the comments about how imbalanced sorc and warden are... We have subclassing, if you can't beat them, join them. My problem is with some builds that just don't make sense. They shouldn't work and realistically don't work. Except for that one player that just kills the whole enemy lobby single handedly.

well i play now on subclass. necro dd + nb liq + necro heall / necro dd + nb liq + temp aedra / necro dd + warden frost + nb liq.

can surprise but necro self healing is better now in game. if you under 50% hp you get 100% crit heall.

i see problem in too high buff to healling in hevy armor with too low debuff too speed and dmg. Or we can look on it like too low buffs on spd / penitration in midle/light armor.

Turtle_Bot · August 3

Erinyes_60 wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Yes, berserker strike will ignore resistances, but it doesn't ignore block mitigation, percent mitigation buffs (protection, evasion, etc.) or damage debuffs (maim, cowardice, etc.).

The dude was using a bow... I suspect one bar Oakensoul with a metric ton of heavy armor since he didn't swap to any back bar. Insane that he had the most kills. His health bar would not go down, I don't think he died more than 3 times. Mostly poison injection spam and take flight for his ult. Pretty innocuous stuff. Except that he did too much damage for an insanely tanky build. And none of that animal companion crutch that gives free damage to tank types. Full tank yet he dealt more damage than brawlers. But no ice staff or sword and board for block mitigation.

I think I've met the closest thing to a sentry gun in ESO BGs... When I can't wrap my brain around such a thing and I also see my whole team, presumably more experienced than me, get demolished I start to hate this game. If I can't break down the sets and buffs I won't just chalk it up to "it is what it is get gud"...

Hmmm, bow is interesting.

They could be a bow/bow build that may seem like a 1 bar build due to the weapons being the same style, were there more than 6 skills used overall? They could also just be using 1 bar entirely passively but not using Oakensoul Ring.

There's a couple of sets I can think of that may be in play:
- 1 causes all attacks to miss for a period of time. Were the attacks hitting and dealing zero damage or were they being "dodged"?
- There's a few sets that grant decent sized damage shields under conditions, did they have shields on them (might be hard to tell since in the base game UI shields aren't the easiest to spot, but the health bar typically has purple over it indicating the size of the shield.

For the damage he was dealing, it is possible to stack a [snip] ton of damage via passively slotting skills that never get used and wearing tanky sets. Were you and your team debuffed? Was he proccing a lot of status effects? Did your buffs fall off? There are some ridiculously tanky builds out there that can still deal insane damage via proccing multiple status effects, debuffs and/or procs at the same time or buffing the damage those status effects deal via sets like draugrkin/dragon's appetite that add flat bonuses to damage done.

I know a few years ago I ran a Draugrkin build that used crushing shock as the spammable, but could get random bursts of +2k damage on top of the initial cast + status effect damage if I procc'd all 3 status effects due to how Draugrkin is designed. It was a lot of damage, as such I could run a defensive back bar set and stack 45k health to still be insanely tanky. This type of build can be refined and updated a lot with the current sub-classing meta with skill lines like herald of the tome (buffs status effect chance/damage) + multiple lines that buff specific damage types (including their respective status effects).

Avran_Sylt · August 3

Block mitigation can easily be pumped up to the 90-95% range, which is multiplicative with Battle spirit (so 95%-97.5%)

Block cost can be reduced with jewelry passives, and sustain sets are prevalent, and being enough of a bait to let your DPS gank players or bomb them also gives you some reprieve.

Block cost only decreases stamina every... I think 1/3 of a second?

So even if 100,000,000,000,000,000 people attack someone continuously, blocking it costs as much as if 1 person attacked every 1/3rd of a second.

1v1 I don't care if you're unkillable but that it scales into 1vX is asinine. Bulwark Ruination is a set that lowers that mitigation, but I don't know if it's additive or multiplicative with their final mitigation %. And of course it's niche needing you to re-equip your gear, for all that the combat bug will let you...

Avran_Sylt · August 3

Also with blockcasting, just slap Scorch, Ulfsilds, and some other damaging ability and you can open with a ton of burst. (Master's 2H with uncapped damage addition also says hello)

Erinyes_60 · August 4

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

I know a few years ago I ran a Draugrkin build that used crushing shock as the spammable, but could get random bursts of +2k damage on top of the initial cast + status effect damage if I procc'd all 3 status effects due to how Draugrkin is designed.

That's just the thing this person did consistent good damage which is fair play if you have a min maxed build, even a tanky one. But everything hitting at the lowest 2k+ damage? It's ridiculous to have a base proc of 2k+ damage on a poison inject followed by the actual bulk of the dot. All that with random bursts of high damage, with mostly a bow. On TOP of doing the whole 1vX unkillable, but this time literally, shenanigans. Maybe there was some desync that match on my end, but half my team?

A little off topic but ranged damage has to be reworked. Too high, too easy to proc sets (especially offensive ones), way easier to refresh your stam/mag pool. Ridiculous that both tanks and gankers, so the polar opposites of the spectrum, opt for a bow or staff.

Anyway my build is far from complete. I just moved on to the next match where I went from being the last in my team to second in terms of kills. But this wild disparity is very off putting.

Erinyes_60 · August 4

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Also with blockcasting, just slap Scorch, Ulfsilds, and some other damaging ability and you can open with a ton of burst. (Master's 2H with uncapped damage addition also says hello)

While I agree blockcasting is a menace and shouldn't be a thing. We're talking about someone who was just spamming bow skills. No delayed Deep Fisure or fancy combos.