Please introduce Speed caps for scroll runners.

Avran_Sylt · July 31

Stunning a 40K health tank that's running at max speed only to have them run away while you can't even mount because you're in combat is absolutely thrilling gameplay.

Thumbless_Bot · July 31

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Stunning a 40K health tank that's running at max speed only to have them run away while you can't even mount because you're in combat is absolutely thrilling gameplay.

There is a speed cap. You even mention it in your ask for a speed cap. Are you asking that there be a snare? The fact that they cant mount woth the scroll SHOULD be the snare...

I think what you are really asking for is for zos to fix the stuck in combat bug so you can reengage the runner after failing to burst down the 40k health tank running at the speed cap... because that's a thing...

Avran_Sylt · August 1

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Stunning a 40K health tank that's running at max speed only to have them run away while you can't even mount because you're in combat is absolutely thrilling gameplay.

There is a speed cap. You even mention it in your ask for a speed cap. Are you asking that there be a snare? The fact that they cant mount woth the scroll SHOULD be the snare...

I think what you are really asking for is for zos to fix the stuck in combat bug so you can reengage the runner after failing to burst down the 40k health tank running at the speed cap... because that's a thing...

Yes, I suppose a snare would be the better term. If you're running the scroll you should need to have protection, not just being able to outrun anyone because they can't re-mount and trudge along behind without tri-swift gear/passives/mythics. But I wouldn't be asking for the snare to slow players down below the standard sprint speed.

And no, I'm not asking for a fix to the stuck in combat bug (though that'd be nice), moreso an artificial limitation on a players action as part of a dynamic objective.

Slowing the scroll runner down would require more defensive gameplay to transport it, it would allow reclaimers to make better catchup distance while their keeps are currently occupied preventing travel behind the lines and with the knowledge of a more expedient catchup for all players may get more people to chase after the scroll then give it up as a lost cause because you don't have the gear to keep up.

xylena_lazarow · August 1

Reason #543869762438902134 that Snow Treaders should not work in PvP zones.

Avran_Sylt · August 1

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Reason #543869762438902134 that Snow Treaders should not work in PvP zones.

I remember way back when when resource poisons were up to like a 33% cost increase and Immobilizations had little to no immunity windows.

I played a zone control Charged frost mage support. That stuff has long been axed in favor of speed to leverage LoS, immunities, and resource security lol. *sigh*.

CameraBeardThePirate · August 1

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Reason #543869762438902134 that Snow Treaders should not work in PvP zones.

They don't even need to make it not work in PvP Zones, they should just cap your speed at like 130% instead of the default 200% if you have them equipped.

MincMincMinc · August 1

Problem is that it isn't hard to be hitting 170% and upwards of movement speed on an otherwise functional build before sprinting. Cyrodil was originally designed around an average player speed of 90% with only a handful of movement speed buffs to reach around 140-150% if you sacrificed your build to do so. The rest still required sprint to cap out.

The world and distance hasn't power crept in size, yet builds have gained 2x or 3x the speed passives. I was pretty surprised when they did the major/minor reworks that expedition wasn't changed.......zos already knew it was too much when they gut the expedition potion timer down by 2/3 the value back in murkmire.

Kaelthorn_Nightbloom · August 2

A good scroll runner will live through 10-15 players if there's no pull. They'll run straight through and survive.

Try having more movespeed and slotting a pull. You'll need 5 or 6 DPS with you but spamming pull is a good way to get scroll runners killed. Even a tank with max movespeed and Snow Treaders will eventually die to chain pulls and damage.

Avran_Sylt · August 2

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

A good scroll runner will live through 10-15 players if there's no pull. They'll run straight through and survive.

Try having more movespeed and slotting a pull. You'll need 5 or 6 DPS with you but spamming pull is a good way to get scroll runners killed. Even a tank with max movespeed and Snow Treaders will eventually die to chain pulls and damage.

Oh cool, you need a coordinated group to take down a single player because build differences on an objective. I don't think you understand how much of a caustic problem that creates.

Avran_Sylt · August 2

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Problem is that it isn't hard to be hitting 170% and upwards of movement speed on an otherwise functional build before sprinting. Cyrodil was originally designed around an average player speed of 90% with only a handful of movement speed buffs to reach around 140-150% if you sacrificed your build to do so. The rest still required sprint to cap out.

The world and distance hasn't power crept in size, yet builds have gained 2x or 3x the speed passives. I was pretty surprised when they did the major/minor reworks that expedition wasn't changed.......zos already knew it was too much when they gut the expedition potion timer down by 2/3 the value back in murkmire.

Eh, PvP is pretty much on the backburner.

KiltMaster · August 2

huh there already is a speed cap

Turtle_Bot · August 3

This is just another aspect of how ridiculous movement speed power creep has gotten over the past 5+ years.

Sorcs were pointing out this issue years ago. Being the speed class that no longer had a meaningful speed advantage to mitigate/lessen the downsides of the classes defensive tools, yet sorcs complaining about speed creep were derided as just "wanting god-mode" and other nonsense...

It's funny to see complaints about movement speed now, because Sorc mains were the proverbial "canary in the coal mine" regarding speed creep (being the speed/mobility class), and the player-base (in general, not anyone specific) decided to shoot the canary dead rather than head its warnings.

In regards to fixing the movement speed issue, I still think the following should be implemented:
- Mounted speed cap increased to 250% - Highest risk, due to being easy to prevent mounting and the risk of long unbreakable stun if knocked off the mount, so should come with the highest reward.
- Sprint speed cap remains at 200% (current speed cap) - Medium risk since abilities cannot be cast while sprinting, but no risk of unbreakable stun like when mounted.
- Run speed cap reduced to 150% - Lowest risk since you have full combat functionality while running, so it should give the lowest reward.

A side bonus is that this would fix the snowtreaders issue since now it will be physically impossible for anyone with snowtreaders to have the same max speed as a mounted/sprinting player because snowtreaders prevents sprinting, which hard caps speed at 150% unless mounted.

Speed values can be adjusted, but the point is that there should be different speed caps for different movement types to respect the risk (or lack of) associated with each one.

Avran_Sylt · August 3

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

This is just another aspect of how ridiculous movement speed power creep has gotten over the past 5+ years.

Sorcs were pointing out this issue years ago. Being the speed class that no longer had a meaningful speed advantage to mitigate/lessen the downsides of the classes defensive tools, yet sorcs complaining about speed creep were derided as just "wanting god-mode" and other nonsense...

It's funny to see complaints about movement speed now, because Sorc mains were the proverbial "canary in the coal mine" regarding speed creep (being the speed/mobility class), and the player-base (in general, not anyone specific) decided to shoot the canary dead rather than head its warnings.

In regards to fixing the movement speed issue, I still think the following should be implemented:
- Mounted speed cap increased to 250% - Highest risk, due to being easy to prevent mounting and the risk of long unbreakable stun if knocked off the mount, so should come with the highest reward.
- Sprint speed cap remains at 200% (current speed cap) - Medium risk since abilities cannot be cast while sprinting, but no risk of unbreakable stun like when mounted.
- Run speed cap reduced to 150% - Lowest risk since you have full combat functionality while running, so it should give the lowest reward.

A side bonus is that this would fix the snowtreaders issue since now it will be physically impossible for anyone with snowtreaders to have the same max speed as a mounted/sprinting player because snowtreaders prevents sprinting, which hard caps speed at 150% unless mounted.

Speed values can be adjusted, but the point is that there should be different speed caps for different movement types to respect the risk (or lack of) associated with each one.

Yeah I like the concept of the tiered caps, (also since a snare would be circumvented by Snowtraders). It would certainly make sure each mode has its own niche. (while also providing potential PvE/set effects with opportunity cost that may change such stuff up (considering material farming and the like)).