Just no. There is no "return to balanced classes" because there were NO balanced classes. Rolling back subclassing wouldn't bring back a balance that didn't exist. Is the balancing worse now? Sure. Means you gotta work on improving it. But ZoS were never good at balancing, subclassing or not.

And besides. They are trying to balance yet again with the new update. Do people like it? No. Why should they go rolling back major features and throwing hundreds of hours in the trash, to "focus on class balance" that everybody will once again crap on? The moment they do, there will spawn another million posts and polls trash talking the new direction. And then the new one. And then another one. Which is fine, but who in their right mind would go deleting content in exchange for... nothing?

As someone who isn’t a fan of subclassing, I still don’t think ZOS should roll it back. They need to do what they should have done from the start:

• Balance it properly so that both multi-class and pure-class enthusiasts can enjoy the game
• Add meaningful trade-offs to subclassing into other lines - double skill and experience point costs are just extra grind, not a power trade-off
• Stop overshooting power creep and then nerf later - nobody likes having stuff taken away again, which is another reason why subclassing as a whole should stay as a feature

They won't roll it back until it affects their profits or overrall player count. I'll just wait for 'ESO Classic' like every other MMO.

Which is why I'm going to shout out Guild Wars 2 which nailed subclassing properly. Instead, ESO is pulling a Runescape and just ruining it. I'm sure once the noobs who enjoy spamming beam everywhere start getting bored of doing so, they'll start leaving too.

It took Jagex years to figure out they ruined Runescape, and now their 'classic' version has a higher population than their 'Improved' version. They even just flat-out finally admitted that MTX has ruined their game!

I don't know. I think this decision will pay off in the short-term at the cost of the long-term.

They've been balancing classes for over 10 years and players have never been happy with it (and yet always sure that reverting the latest major update would fix all the problems).

I'm not saying balance is perfect now or that it's not worth trying to balance classes, but I don't think reverting subclassing will contribute anything useful to the process.

L33T_BEANS wrote: »

They won't roll it back until it affects their profits or overrall player count. I'll just wait for 'ESO Classic' like every other MMO.

Which is why I'm going to shout out Guild Wars 2 which nailed subclassing properly. Instead, ESO is pulling a Runescape and just ruining it. I'm sure once the noobs who enjoy spamming beam everywhere start getting bored of doing so, they'll start leaving too.

It took Jagex years to figure out they ruined Runescape, and now their 'classic' version has a higher population than their 'Improved' version. They even just flat-out finally admitted that MTX has ruined their game!

I don't know. I think this decision will pay off in the short-term at the cost of the long-term.

Most other MMOs don't have a classic, especially if they are newer. FFXIV doesn't have classic and never will. Guild Wars 2 doesn't have classic and never will. Obviously NW doesn't have one. SWTOR doesn't have one. Which MMOs have classic? WoW. Runescape hardly counts because osrs is a completely different game. OSRS isn't a "classic" offshoot of Runescape 3, feels weird to even classify it as such.

Classics don't make sense for most games. WoW underwent some major changes, including world changes during Cataclysm, that qualify it for such a version. It is also simply old and nostalgic enough to make the classic version profitable. FFXIV had the A Realm Reborn, but going back to pre ARR nobody would even consider, after all the whole game make over was to save it from certain death. Most other games haven't changed much. They add new story, new locations, rebalance classes, going back to some sort of previous version is hardly worthy of an entire separate game's upkeep, especially when nobody will play or pay it. Even the major updates ESO does are relatively minor in the end. Most of them are separate from the rest of the game and can frankly just not be engaged with whatsoever. Scribing? You could play without it, no issues. Companions? Who cares. Subclassing? You just keep your old 3 skill lines and play like nothing ever happened, plus/minus a few % worth of dps.

What version specifically would you propose ESO goes back to? Pre Tamriel Unlimited? The equivalent of going back to pre ffxiv's ARR? I don't think ZoS would ever even entertain the thought. Some arbitrary update after Tamriel Unlimited where your favourite class was powerful enough, and the classes you disliked were weak enough? Sure, but you'd need to consider that other people would then request a different version. And most importantly, you really think ZoS will be willing to pay for the upkeep of that version that a 100 people will play, maybe, if you're lucky?

Yes and no.

Balancing skills would be ideal. Retaining class identity would be ideal. Insuring each class is viable within the framework of the game would be ideal.

Before you blast me, the below are my observations and my opinions based upon those observations, with no malice intended or implied toward the devs or new players.

However, the path of the game devs for the last several years, increasingly so, has been the flashbang of shiny new to attract new players rather than to maintain a strong foundation. For inexplicable reasons, they seem to believe it's an either/or situation. That's why, also seemingly increasingly, the established players are being ignored ........ must attract new players many who, I'm sorry to say, seem to have short attention spans and only see the latest new whositwhatsit. It's endemic throughout society, not just games, so I suppose I can understand the devs' frantic pushing out content which doesn't really work well or seems incomplete, etc.

Will they roll subclassing back? No. It took what, three years, for them to finally admit that the original three absolutely separate factions in the game didn't work for player retention and then release TamOne? Yeah, beta testers told them ad nauseum that the original, while a cool concept, was a bad idea for longevity (among other game mechanics and other reasons). How many other less-than-satisfactory updates have been released and only had a few tweaks here and there for optics?

The game was never about "play however you like". On their end, it's about how many gold crowns fill their coffers because games are not cheap to make. On our end, it's about a few hours of enjoyment after a long day of reality. Ideally the two intersect to the mutual benefit of both, but ultimately with ESO the players are losing the battle.

Edited for clarification

no. You are not getting a rollback on an update or a new system.
Rollbacks are for when something goes wrong in the servers like a crash.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollback_(data_management)

And ZOS' other mmo had other people working on it, it being cancelled doesn't really equal more focus on ESO. it's not like everyone at zos was working on both games constantly going back and forth.
it's just like ESO has different teams for art and combat.

Subclassing is here and zos has done balancing changes in u46 and now u47 too.
New classes can still happen and they will likely be more popular with Subclassing as any character can make use of the new classes.

unsure if no or yes are even useful answers to this thread? more like No and Yes.
No as in that's not how rollback works and Subclassing is not leaving.
Yes as in zos is clearly doing Class Balance, even if not everyone likes how they do it (but that's always the case).

Keep subclassing, don't waste time and resources on balance as it is impossible to achieve(only fix broken/bugged skills).

Can we please, as a community, for the love of God, stop asking to remove subclassing. It. Is. Not. Going. To. Happen. Very frustrating to see these posts because there is no world where they ever do this. Give constructive criticism and directed feedback on how to make newly implemented systems better... so unhelpful.

I think they should limit it to one skill line swapped at a time.

Then make sure that skill line passives are all as broadly valuable as the ones in Assassination so it isn't just always that.

Subclassing is their big thing. They're not walking this back.

What they should do though it balance it though. It is a huge mess and they opened this can of worms, but there are ways that they could still balance it. Sure, it's harder now that it's in the wild, but there are still things they could do.

Even though I loathe Subclassing, I do think it's a nice thing for some people. I think it's good that people can customize their builds who want to... but I think that it needs to have been done in such a way that doesn't mean there is one good build and everything else is a meme.

As much as I was partially against this system before release, I can see how subclassing can be really great for the game, alongside skill styles you'll be able to give so much personality to a build, I'm not worried they'll ever take it away, but I'm glad we have it.

But yes, it does still have lots of balancing problems for sure, but I have hope ZOS will even out skill lines in power, given time.

My vote is yes for the simple fact that they have nerfed "pure" classes to implement this. They even went a step further and nerfed most cool interactions subclassing would bring. The devs are tone deaf and dont listen to player feedback. Most of the end game community seem to know this game better than they do. After watching the PvP stream, it should be evident to all. The PTS exists simply to test stability of what they want to change, not get actual player feedback.

I voted YES, but I want subclassing to exist, although not this one poor, lazy, uninspired abomination we've gotten

ZOS should not roll back subclassing and focus on class balance. I believe that ZOS will never release an update that the majority of people on this forum think is balanced. I'm good with ZOS continuing to release new content and features, and to keep trying to improve this game, even if sometimes I disagree with them on the implementation.