Tales of Tribute...What's next?

HairyFairy · July 8

What is next for ToT?

Can we get some type of roadmap/plans? Is the game playing as intended or are there possibly changes within the current decks on the horizon?

I don't feel as if more decks need to be introduced, though, it is very fun when they are.

I do feel like this community really wants to see a re-balancing. Too often the games are one sided, summing up to pure luck and chance rather than skill.

I am always within the top 100 on the leaderboard and often top 10%. I play the game a lot and am fairly knowledgeable of it at this point. I just hope ZOS is working on it still.

Thanks,
HF

darkriketz · July 8

I've played two games against others players. One to show another player how to play, because he was interested in ToT, another where I conceeded victory as, you said it, it was a no-match, totally unbalanced one-sided game.

I've recently "finished" the ToT storyline in the fact that I've reached level 8, defeated the Founders and obtained the Maormer deck, the ToT table and decks box furnishings, and truly I don't know if I intend to play again.
One thing's sure, I'll never play against other players. My time is better used than being smashed during one-sided games.

ToT is interesting, but randomly hard to the point I'm not even interested in finding all the upgraded cards, and the fact that the "master-achievement" requires (among others) much PvP practice : MEH.

Jordan_Black · July 8

ZOS does look at games and change the value of cards they see as OP for the cost, I'd assume that the reason they haven't done this in a while is that they feel it's pretty balanced as-is. As far as luck is concerned - it's a card game, there's going to be luck. I'd estimate 20% of games overall are determined by pure luck, which seems fairly reasonable to me. The closer the opposing player is to your skill level, the higher the chance the game will be determined by luck. If two players of exactly equal skill play, the game is going to be determined by luck, how tired someone is, whether someone's wife is calling him from upstairs during a crucial decision, etc. If you want 0% game-origin luck, you'll have to play chess, but even that game is strongly affected by random non-game factors.

The one beef I have with the game itself is I feel like the starting player has too much of an advantage. If player 2 were given a slightly better compensation than 1 gold (maybe one gold card should be auto-turned into a 2g card on turn 1) maybe this would help?

Dunno, it's a game and it's fun, I'm really glad they introduced it. I do think the leaderboard prizes are kinda lame. I can get in the top 10% if I want to, but I don't try anymore because who cares about 10k gold and I'm usually maxed out on transmutes unless I just made a couple new builds. I'm not good enough to get in the top 3% prize bracket (I think most people who do this routinely are able to build a strong mental picture of where all the cards are, like card-counters in Las Vegas, and these guys pretty much thrash me every time I play them. Unless I waste my entire turn thinking about it, my mental picture is pretty much the screen). But, I also don't care about getting in the top 3% prize bracket because I can make 100k gold farming in *way* less time than it would take me to play all that ToT, same with transmutes and other ways to get transmutes.

darkriketz · July 8

Jordan_Black wrote: »

ZOS does look at games and change the value of cards they see as OP for the cost, I'd assume that the reason they haven't done this in a while is that they feel it's pretty balanced as-is. As far as luck is concerned - it's a card game, there's going to be luck. I'd estimate 20% of games overall are determined by pure luck, which seems fairly reasonable to me. The closer the opposing player is to your skill level, the higher the chance the game will be determined by luck. If two players of exactly equal skill play, the game is going to be determined by luck, how tired someone is, whether someone's wife is calling him from upstairs during a crucial decision, etc. If you want 0% game-origin luck, you'll have to play chess, but even that game is strongly affected by random non-game factors.

The one beef I have with the game itself is I feel like the starting player has too much of an advantage. If player 2 were given a slightly better compensation than 1 gold (maybe one gold card should be auto-turned into a 2g card on turn 1) maybe this would help?

Dunno, it's a game and it's fun, I'm really glad they introduced it. I do think the leaderboard prizes are kinda lame. I can get in the top 10% if I want to, but I don't try anymore because who cares about 10k gold and I'm usually maxed out on transmutes unless I just made a couple new builds. I'm not good enough to get in the top 3% prize bracket (I think most people who do this routinely are able to build a strong mental picture of where all the cards are, like card-counters in Las Vegas, and these guys pretty much thrash me every time I play them. Unless I waste my entire turn thinking about it, my mental picture is pretty much the screen). But, I also don't care about getting in the top 3% prize bracket because I can make 100k gold farming in *way* less time than it would take me to play all that ToT, same with transmutes and other ways to get transmutes.

In my opinion luck is more important than strategy in ToT because even if you have a planned strategy around a specific patron, deck or synergy between two colours (or more), in the end it depends on what will show up in the Tavern and what the opponent will buy, replace or leave. No strategy can endure the vanishing of every single required card before you can have the chance to buy it.

My favorite deck is the Duke of Crows, and I've hated playing games where the Tavern was full of white (no deck), black (Red Eagle) or yellow (Alessia) cards, which I wasn't using.

Gabriel_H · July 8

Jordan_Black wrote: »

I'd estimate 20% of games overall are determined by pure luck, which seems fairly reasonable to me.

As someone who has done all the ToT content, got all the achievements and trophies, and when I choose to play consistently finish in the top 20% with little effort, top 10% with some effort, and higher if I can be bothered to play 3 games a day, the luck factor is a lot more than 20%. The vast majority of games are determined by the end of round 3, even if they last another 100 - when a skilled player is playing a skilled player.

Choosing what time of day to play affects whether you come up against a veteran or a newbie, so you can game the system.

DenverRalphy · July 8

The biggest design flaw in ToT is that the more experienced/familiar the two players are with all the decks, the more luck plays a factor in determining the outcome.

When both players know all 4 decks selected, the game is almost always determined by which player gets the first good card in relation to the 4 decks selected.

SilverBride · July 8

How many people even play ToT any more? I just made a thread to address being matched with the same player 3 times out of 4, all on different days, in Unranked Casual. I'm afraid to even try again because I don't want to keep playing the same person only. This makes me think that very few are even queueing now.

thedocbwarren · July 8

SilverBride wrote: »

How many people even play ToT any more? I just made a thread to address being matched with the same player 3 times out of 4, all on different days, in Unranked Casual. I'm afraid to even try again because I don't want to keep playing the same person only. This makes me think that very few are even queueing now.

Agreed as when they had the Golden for it I tried it (dis-liked it) but played the same two people over and over. I think it's tedious to learn and is clear it's random. I didn't see the point. Think it should be a mobile game. Just my 2 cents.

MagdaV · July 8

My only request for ToT currently is to increase the drop rate for the Heavily Played Tribute Card and the Scrap of the Spearhead's Colors. FOR REALS!!!! I have been actually grinding for this for months now and only have 2 of the cards and 3 of the scraps. I open 40-50 containers DAILY. The only 2 achievements I need for ToT rely on these items.

Sure, new decks would be fun. I like collecting lol But all I really want is better odds for farming the items. lol

Northwold · July 8

darkriketz wrote: »

Jordan_Black wrote: »

ZOS does look at games and change the value of cards they see as OP for the cost, I'd assume that the reason they haven't done this in a while is that they feel it's pretty balanced as-is. As far as luck is concerned - it's a card game, there's going to be luck. I'd estimate 20% of games overall are determined by pure luck, which seems fairly reasonable to me. The closer the opposing player is to your skill level, the higher the chance the game will be determined by luck. If two players of exactly equal skill play, the game is going to be determined by luck, how tired someone is, whether someone's wife is calling him from upstairs during a crucial decision, etc. If you want 0% game-origin luck, you'll have to play chess, but even that game is strongly affected by random non-game factors.

The one beef I have with the game itself is I feel like the starting player has too much of an advantage. If player 2 were given a slightly better compensation than 1 gold (maybe one gold card should be auto-turned into a 2g card on turn 1) maybe this would help?

Dunno, it's a game and it's fun, I'm really glad they introduced it. I do think the leaderboard prizes are kinda lame. I can get in the top 10% if I want to, but I don't try anymore because who cares about 10k gold and I'm usually maxed out on transmutes unless I just made a couple new builds. I'm not good enough to get in the top 3% prize bracket (I think most people who do this routinely are able to build a strong mental picture of where all the cards are, like card-counters in Las Vegas, and these guys pretty much thrash me every time I play them. Unless I waste my entire turn thinking about it, my mental picture is pretty much the screen). But, I also don't care about getting in the top 3% prize bracket because I can make 100k gold farming in *way* less time than it would take me to play all that ToT, same with transmutes and other ways to get transmutes.

In my opinion luck is more important than strategy in ToT because even if you have a planned strategy around a specific patron, deck or synergy between two colours (or more), in the end it depends on what will show up in the Tavern and what the opponent will buy, replace or leave. No strategy can endure the vanishing of every single required card before you can have the chance to buy it.

My favorite deck is the Duke of Crows, and I've hated playing games where the Tavern was full of white (no deck), black (Red Eagle) or yellow (Alessia) cards, which I wasn't using.

Isn't this the problem though? ToT is not a game that lends itself to having one set strategy. It's a game that requires you to adapt your strategy to the cards you get given. If you have a sacred cow strategy that you don't drop when the cards aren't going your way, you stand to lose. That's what makes it interesting (but also makes it have quite an unforgiving learning curve).

Luck undeniably plays a role, but adaptability does matter (including deliberately playing to thwart players trying to play predetermined strategies).

Jordan_Black · July 9

[/quote]

In my opinion luck is more important than strategy in ToT because even if you have a planned strategy around a specific patron, deck or synergy between two colours (or more), in the end it depends on what will show up in the Tavern and what the opponent will buy, replace or leave. No strategy can endure the vanishing of every single required card before you can have the chance to buy it.

[/quote]

If you plan a strategy around specific cards dropping, and those cards don't drop, and you follow the strategy anyway, it's not a very good strategy.

Jordan_Black · July 9

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Jordan_Black wrote: »

I'd estimate 20% of games overall are determined by pure luck, which seems fairly reasonable to me.

As someone who has done all the ToT content, got all the achievements and trophies, and when I choose to play consistently finish in the top 20% with little effort, top 10% with some effort, and higher if I can be bothered to play 3 games a day, the luck factor is a lot more than 20%. The vast majority of games are determined by the end of round 3, even if they last another 100 - when a skilled player is playing a skilled player.

Choosing what time of day to play affects whether you come up against a veteran or a newbie, so you can game the system.

You obviously didn't read my entire post, which is fine, but it does make me wonder why you took the time to type out a reply to it.

festegios · July 10

I’d like the competitive matches to have a stricter timer. Reduce the time for time wasters, but allow for completion of your hand when you’ve got a lot of cards to go through and you spend half you time in animations.

Also I agree with a lot of the above, the games 90% decided in the first 3 or 4 rounds.

I also think, whoever picks the deck first should go second in playing.

tsaescishoeshiner · July 10

I enjoyed Tribute a lot, but I didn't like some of the new decks or keeping up with all the new content (which was fun to unlock and exciting at first).

For longterm interest, I think they should maybe add some seasonal rotations (different patrons available each month) as well as special reward weekends (double boxes?), like for battlegrounds.

Or ideally add Tribute to the basegame without needing a quest, like Battlegrounds. (Brahgas being so specific to High Isle would make this difficult, but maybe that only means the tutorial is locked to High Isle?)

What would also help is an automated monthly "tournament"--out of 5 matches in a weekend against random players, how many times can you win? Better rewards based on how well you do, maybe you can enter twice. And a worthwhile completion prize to draw players of different skill levels.