Stackable surveys exactly like master writs? no thank you.

Rittings · July 3

If they are going to be introduced like Master writs curently are, then it's a big NO from me (as someone that does 20 toons and all crafting writs).

It might save space in the short term, but in the long run, having 500+ "Unknown Woodworking Surveys" will be one tedious amount of time opening them all to see which ones you have multiple of and will go and do if you have a nice amount. That's how most of us currently do those surveys...

I have approximately 2500 surveys to complete, which yes, take up a lot of space, but the thing that takes time is the zone bouncing to do them and the finding of them. Which is why I like multiples of the same one to run away and come back and redo them. That's going to be much tougher and more tedious if I have to sit opening boxes to get them all out to find that out.

Why can't we just have FLAT SURVEYS??? So... "Clothing Survey Report" - and we can complete it where we want? They will stack, they will be much easier to complete, and save time for us to play the actual game instead of tediously having to do them all over Tamriel (something which gets worse and worse each new zone).

Heren · July 3

I fully agree, if survey maps stack the same way master writs do, it's bordeline useless. I never do surveys until I have at least 10 of one type, because otherwise it would be such a waste of time running around the world completing one or two surveys in every regions.

The way master writs now stacks is, I think, very good - but it's not and it should not be used as a miraculous universal solution. In the case of survey maps, it's really a false good idea. In the end, it will change almost nothing to the problem of stacking suvey maps.

spartaxoxo · July 3

I mean if they retain both functionalities then I don't see how that would be an issue. Currently the same survey stacks. Just open them as you get them and continue to use them as you do now.

For those of us who only do a few when we need them, that's a massive savings in space. It's also a dramatic savings in space for non-plus users

Aliniel · July 3

The way I see it (I do daily writs on 20 characters):
- Currently, I move the surveys from my alts into back when their bags are full.
- From the bank, I take them with my "Survey Guy" - he holds all the surveys I have on my account - which is ~180 stacks.
- When I want to do a zone, let's say Glenumbra, I take out all Glenumra surveys into bank and out with my main who does the hard work (yes, I could do it with the "Survey Guy", but he's actually a "Survey Holding Guy" so no).

New system:
- Instead of having 30+ surveys on the alts, I will only have 7 stacks of Unknown Surveys.
- My "Survey Guy" will still collect all the Unknown Surveys and when I want to do them, he will have to open them ALL so I can do all 50/100/whatever for that one zone.
- Thus my "Survey Guy" stays a "Survey Guy".

So, what changes? I will move surveys onto my "Survey Guy" less frequently. It helps a bit, but doesn't save my "Survey Guy" from being a "Survey Guy".

#savesurveyguy

ApoAlaia · July 3

Is not really what some of us have asked for on numerous occasions - a comprehensive QoL pass on surveys because this game system not only did it start with excessive levels of inconvenience built it, over the years it has accrued further inconvenience as the devs have gotten more and more... creative with survey location and node layout.

In my particular case, as someone who collects surveys daily - because if I let them pile up the temptation to bin them increases exponentially - the change is somewhere between neutral and slightly inconvenient (as it will add anything between 30-40 'unpackings' to my daily routine unless Dolgubon is kind enough to implement the option to 'auto-unpack surveys' in Lazy Writ Crafter).

Having said that, if some people find utility in this change excellent, I'm not really bothered myself.

Taking surveys as a whole it barely moves the inconvenience needle for me, getting a single West Weald Blacksmithing survey is already a lot worse.

GimpyPorcupine · July 3

All platforms now support add-ins, so you can write one to automatically open them, or more likely it will get added to something like Dolguban's Lazy Writs. They will then behave exactly as they do currently.

Heren · July 3

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I mean if they retain both functionalities then I don't see how that would be an issue.

It's time and ressources put to improve something in a way that is barely an improvement. It's not an issue per se, but it's really questionnable in terms of overall usefulness and real need.

I really feel, just like with swimming mounts, that they are going for low hanging fruits. They have a new system for master wrists, hey let's just slap it on survey maps and calling it a huge step forward for qol in ESO !

It is ( somehow ) a step forward, yes. Somewhat. A toe forward maybe. Not much more.

Same as @Aliniel , I guess it will make the transfer process of survey maps a bit less cumbersome ? Huzzah.

Number_51 · July 3

I guess it's not going to bother me either way so long as, after opening the envelope, the new surveys still stack with the old. I'm in the "never collect surveys until there are at least 20" camp.

What I really need is treasure map stacking, and it needs to be retroactive (unlike how master writs and now surveys have been implemented).

Aylish · July 3

I don‘t get why we need to stack them anyways. Same surveys already stack, which is absolutely ok for me.

It was good for master writs since they don‘t stack even if they‘re identical. But for surveys?

AzuraFan · July 3

I'll like this change more than the master writ one. I tend to stay on top of master writs, so I never have a lot of them in my inventory. But I let surveys pile up. I can always tell when I haven't done any for a while because my inventory is getting full. So I'll welcome this change. The only downside is that since they won't be overcrowding my inventory, I might let them languish too long and then realize I have hundreds to do!

Rittings · July 3

I think the consensus here is the same... those of us that hoard the surveys, do so until we have a stack of the same survey and then do it - this new system simply would not make that very easy, and would require EXTRA steps and EXTRA time to remove them from their stackable containers.

Why on earth can't we just have a complete overhaul and just have generic surveys that we can choose to get from ANYWHERE??? That would mean, surveys would be reduced to Blacksmith Survey, Clothing Survey, Woodworking Survey etc... and that would mean we could just head out to our favourite spot to do them, and voila - EVERYONE is happy. No more inventory issues, and surveys are no longer as tedious and mundane and it would likely mean more of us do them more regularly (probably even as part of our daily routine).

GloatingSwine · July 3

I don't let the surveys build up in the first place, because if I do the pile becomes too daunting and they never get done.

They get cleared out either once dailies are done or just before logoff. Keep that zero inbox.

Masteroshi430 · July 3

GimpyPorcupine wrote: »

All platforms now support add-ins, so you can write one to automatically open them, or more likely it will get added to something like Dolguban's Lazy Writs. They will then behave exactly as they do currently.

Unboxer will do that as it already does with the master writ envelopes

davidtk · July 3

And wouldn't it be better instead of making a mess with addons when surveys are packed into the unknown surveys stack to keep the survey maps the same, but adjust the nodes according to how many maps there are? For example, if I have 5x Jewelery II from Malabar Tor, so that the node contains 5x more resources and do it as only ONE node? I understand that the server would have to calculate the probabilities for double loot using CP and possible double loot events, but I think that would be better than giving another layer to go through.

DenverRalphy · July 3

GimpyPorcupine wrote: »

All platforms now support add-ins, so you can write one to automatically open them, or more likely it will get added to something like Dolguban's Lazy Writs. They will then behave exactly as they do currently.

The issue raised by the OP isn't the workload required to unseal them. Moreso that it's not really a solution. Many players save surveys until they have stacks of them. Simply because it's more efficient to knock out 100 surveys at 4 - 5 unique locations, than it is to knock out 100 surveys across 37 zones.

With the new system, bank/inventory space will be freed up at first. But eventually those empty slots will invariably fill. And when that happens, if a player wants to grind out 100 blacksmith surveys, they will have to hop all over the map because there isn't as much space to put single stack surveys to genereate multi stack surveys.

So basically the OP is saying that sealed unopen surveys is wasted on them as they'll just have to open every sealed survey as they get them anyway to be able to build up those stacks. And I'm inclined to agree. A much better solution would have been to develop a Document Pouch that worked like the craftbag. No database restrictions would apply like calls for a furnishing bag would.

freespirit · July 3

Unknown Master Writs sort of works from my perspective BUT the same system for surveys seems pointless.

A stack of Unknown Alchemy Writs could contain surveys from multiple zones and likely will. As mentioned several times above I prefer to do maps in one single zone rather than jump around the whole map.

My version of "SurveyGuy" will remain as is and now I will have to unpack the surveys too, not a very user friendly solution, at least not for me. 😕

sshogrin · July 3

I agree that we don't need surveys to stack.
I think stackable treasure maps would be better.
I also think that we should have survey assistant to do those surveys. I'd rather spend my time doing content than running around doing surveys. We have assistants that we get mail from, I think a survey assistant should be the same.

Desiato · July 3

The entire writ system was broken by addons. It was supposed to be impractical for these things to even become an issue.

There's no way to put this genie back in the bottle though. We'd quickly be in SHENANIGANS territory.

Surveys already stack. I think it would be fine for them to drop in containers to reduce any inventory stress in the backend as well as for players. The players who prefer the current system would still have that option to continue as they have been.

I'd be happy to have an option for a smaller inventory footprint that I could expand at a time of my choosing when I'm ready to complete them.

Hoarding surveys is a choice. If you don't like it, don't do it! It's just a game. Go and delete all of your surveys now and I guarantee it will have a minimal impact to your life. I would bet most would see an improvement. We're all going to quit this game one day with 1000x more items than we could actually use in this lifetime.

sarahthes · July 3

I love this idea, honestly. My survey guy is a character I also play regularly and juggling surveys and gear inventory not to mention loot is annoying. Having only 6 stacks of surveys rather than however many I could hoard otherwise means I can do surveys when I have time rather than when I'm forced to.

ESO_player123 · July 3

I assume that this does not combine the existing surveys into a stack. If so, this feature does not really do much in terms of saving space for those who have stacks of them already. I'm not planning to delete the ones I store or to complete all of them now because it's too tedious and I do not need mats at the moment.

Like some players that posted before me, I complete a batch of the SAME surveys when I need mats to avoid running all over the map. If I need one or two for an endeavor, I choose those that are close to a wayshrine. So, pulling a random one by opening a stack is not an improvement for my playstyle.

I was really hopeful for an ability to complete several of the same surveys in one go. I'm glad that some players find this an improvement, but I do not.

AzuraFan · July 3

AzuraFan wrote: »

I'll like this change more than the master writ one. I tend to stay on top of master writs, so I never have a lot of them in my inventory. But I let surveys pile up. I can always tell when I haven't done any for a while because my inventory is getting full. So I'll welcome this change. The only downside is that since they won't be overcrowding my inventory, I might let them languish too long and then realize I have hundreds to do!

Quoting myself... after reading responses that came after me, I can see why this might not be a positive change. Maybe they can make it an option?

IsharaMeradin · July 3

Surveys already stack. I'd rather they figure out a way to stack treasure maps instead.

Pevey · July 3

Surveys desperately need some QoL changes, but these were not the changes they needed.

Heren · July 3

Desiato wrote: »

Hoarding surveys is a choice. If you don't like it, don't do it! It's just a game. Go and delete all of your surveys now and I guarantee it will have a minimal impact to your life. I would bet most would see an improvement. We're all going to quit this game one day with 1000x more items than we could actually use in this lifetime.

Hoarding surveys is a qol. And when I crafting dailies regularly, it's a most needed source of raw materials ( except alchemy and enchantment ). So no, your suggestion is not even remotely a valid one.

AzuraFan wrote: »

Quoting myself... after reading responses that came after me, I can see why this might not be a positive change. Maybe they can make it an option?

It's not really that it is a negative change, I don't really think it is. And I guess for some people it's gonna be a net positive change. But for me and for other people, it's just an unneeded change. And when you look at the pace of the qol released, I really feel like they could have come with a really better one, like they could have put ressources elsewhere for a far better use of them.

Moreso, it's a change that, overall, is only a very mild qol change. For once, as quoted below, survey are still a rather tedious thing - they are useful, they yield a lot of ressources, and I would say it's a more efficient way of getting ressources than wandering in the open world - assuming you do a significant number of survey maps in one region.

ApoAlaia wrote: »

Is not really what some of us have asked for on numerous occasions - a comprehensive QoL pass on surveys because this game system not only did it start with excessive levels of inconvenience built it, over the years it has accrued further inconvenience as the devs have gotten more and more... creative with survey location and node layout.

Also, the underlying problem is more inventory space - or rather the entire lack of new inventory space, when every year we got new things, a certain number we can't just stock in the ressource bag if we have ESO+, or in houses ( or the new vault ). Getting new storage slots, be it character inventory, bank or even new coffers for houses, would be a massive qol change, and one that would ease a lot of problems - not solve them, but really ease them.

TomCat · July 3

Number_51 wrote: »

What I really need is treasure map stacking, and it needs to be retroactive (unlike how master writs and now surveys have been implemented).

Dear ZOS team, you're just not listening.
Nobody asked for stackable surveys – it was always the desire for stackable treasure maps.
Stackable surveys by profession are completely useless to me. I don't do surveys by profession, I do them by ZONE.

freespirit · July 3

TomCat wrote: »

Number_51 wrote: »

What I really need is treasure map stacking, and it needs to be retroactive (unlike how master writs and now surveys have been implemented).

Dear ZOS team, you're just not listening.
Nobody asked for stackable surveys – it was always the desire for stackable treasure maps.
Stackable surveys by profession are completely useless to me. I don't do surveys by profession, I do them by ZONE.

THIS^^ So much this!!

Please make Treasure Maps stack, even just the same ones, like Galen 1 will stack with other Galen 1's. omg now that would really, really be a QoL improvement!!!! (needed many exclamation marks)

Orbital78 · July 3

Rittings wrote: »

It might save space in the short term, but in the long run, having 500+ "Unknown Woodworking Surveys" will be one tedious amount of time opening them all to see which ones you have multiple of and will go and do if you have a nice amount. That's how most of us currently do those surveys...

Unboxer addon... you can set it to only open them with hotkey or automatically. Personally I am all for saving inventory/bank space as much as possible in this game. It is one of the biggest turn offs with this game is the inventory management and the over use of style materials and such to clutter your inventory unless you pay for it.

I hope they also relook at treasure maps, the whole unique thing forces you to leave them behind in treasure chests and such. It is rather annoying. It would be nice if they would relook at ways to reset the dig sites and survey harvest locations easier. Some reset well and some you have to run clear across the zone it feels like.

valenwood_vegan · July 3

Yeah similar to others, this won't change how I do or store surveys, since I do them by zone instead of survey type.

But maybe it will help some folks with their inventory, idk. Hope we can get a more suitable QoL update for surveys down the road, and perhaps one that helps with actually doing them - running back and forth over and over again to reset a survey location is quite tedious.

(and stackable treasure maps soon too please!).

Desiato · July 3

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Yeah similar to others, this won't change how I do or store surveys, since I do them by zone instead of survey type.

But maybe it will help some folks with their inventory, idk. Hope we can get a more suitable QoL update for surveys down the road, and perhaps one that helps with actually doing them - running back and forth over and over again to reset a survey location is quite tedious.

(and stackable treasure maps soon too please!).

The problem with the kind of survey qol many players want is that it will just motivate more players to do writs on 20 characters a day, and maybe multiple accounts. With addons, the reward vs effort for crafting writs is INSANELY high.

So what would be the practical impact? Gold upgrade materials lose even more value and harvesting becomes a waste of time. Why even have an upgrade system if legendary becomes the default? Upgradable gear is a feature in games like this, it shouldn't be rendered completely irrelevant. It's bad enough that green and blue don't exist outside the most inexperienced players. That is lost gameplay depth.

Plus it is a bad idea for devs to heavily incentivize activities that are fundamentally boring like doing 7x20 crafting writs a day. I can't imagine it's good for the servers either. If they're going to have an activity that is highly rewarding, it shouldn't be a crafting station grind that only involves accepting a quest and pressing e.

Just because addons make it trivial to obtain surveys doesn't mean it should become trivial to complete them. They don't exist in a bubble. They affect other aspects of the game. If players have more than they can handle, that's on them!

NoSoup · July 3

Just give us a survey assistant, even if they take 20% of the resources you'd otherwise get I'd still use it.....

msgeek · July 3

The thing zos seems to forget is that surveys are supposed to be a reward.

At the moment they really aren't, they are a massive chore, even stacking to 20/30+ of the same.

There's no way i'm wasting time going to anywhere with a stack of <20. Even then, they are currently a questionable rate of return compared to e.g. waiting for a double drop event and just farming a load of nodes in close proximity.

What could make these more worthwhile?
few options:
1) as above, let any survey harvest any zone. Stack to a decent number then do them.
2) include surveys in double drop events - give people a reason to save up then open
3) assistant / new companion buff/ eso+ perk? let them harvest 1 zone a day automatically if you login.
4) Multi stack harvesting. Have 20 of a survey? get 20x the mats with 1 harvest interaction.

Make these worth doing again.