Ah the good ol' we hate pulls in the game thread.

I feel like we people complain about rush every few months for years.

I'm a big fan of ROA at its core. I think it's a great gap closer set and it can really alter a fight (both from an offensive and defensive point of view).

With that being said though - there is something very... interesting going on with this set and I think lag (client to server and server to client) makes the set appear as though it's broken or not in line with the tool tip.

Example: Player A is in front of me and I use rush on their position. During that leap to player A player B was within the pull distance. When the pull actually goes off player B is miles away from me but they still get pulled because the server or client (I don't have access to their infrastructure so I don't know exactly where the problem/gap is) thinks they are actually much closer than on their screen they really are... so they get pulled. Thats how you get the "I got pulled through a wall" or "I got pulled from behind a house" comments come from. I've personally seen this from both POVs, someone who does the pulling and someone who blocks the pull or was no where near the pull when it happened... it ALWAYS happens when there is heavy lag. I have never been able to replicate the issue in a no laggy environment.

/end tangent

If I had to take a guess... they sidelined this for now because of the Cyro test. If I had to take a second guess... they sidelined it because they know this set will be simplified when they get done reworking the skills for Cyro. So why would they work on it now when they know the team will do a pass on this set down the road.

Don't have any info to back up that claim... just what the "vibe" is telling me.

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

The new subclass Rushing Agony build specifically circumvents blocking by dropping Colossus ult into fear stun. There's a split second to react when they first become visible. You block, you get fear stunned and instakilled. So now on top of the awkward narrow counterplay, you also need Ultra Instinct. Because someone wore a gear proc. Enough is enough.

Are you talking about the rush combo with the warden class mastery charm? Because yeah unless you have streak, it's very difficult to escape getting hit by anything there. No idea why they made the charm unblockable and undodgeable, 70% snare attached to it leaves very little counterplay.

LadyGP wrote: »

Ah the good ol' we hate pulls in the game thread.

I feel like we people complain about rush every few months for years.

I'm a big fan of ROA at its core. I think it's a great gap closer set and it can really alter a fight (both from an offensive and defensive point of view).

With that being said though - there is something very... interesting going on with this set and I think lag (client to server and server to client) makes the set appear as though it's broken or not in line with the tool tip.

Example: Player A is in front of me and I use rush on their position. During that leap to player A player B was within the pull distance. When the pull actually goes off player B is miles away from me but they still get pulled because the server or client (I don't have access to their infrastructure so I don't know exactly where the problem/gap is) thinks they are actually much closer than on their screen they really are... so they get pulled. Thats how you get the "I got pulled through a wall" or "I got pulled from behind a house" comments come from. I've personally seen this from both POVs, someone who does the pulling and someone who blocks the pull or was no where near the pull when it happened... it ALWAYS happens when there is heavy lag. I have never been able to replicate the issue in a no laggy environment.

/end tangent

If I had to take a guess... they sidelined this for now because of the Cyro test. If I had to take a second guess... they sidelined it because they know this set will be simplified when they get done reworking the skills for Cyro. So why would they work on it now when they know the team will do a pass on this set down the road.

Don't have any info to back up that claim... just what the "vibe" is telling me.

Gap closer? If you had to at least be pointing your reticle in the general direction of that person, singular, as opposed to every single person within a 453sqm circle, and it was only that person tbat got pulled, again, singular, aaaand it applied cc immunity to the target, again ,singular, then sure.

LadyGP wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

The new subclass Rushing Agony build specifically circumvents blocking by dropping Colossus ult into fear stun. There's a split second to react when they first become visible. You block, you get fear stunned and instakilled. So now on top of the awkward narrow counterplay, you also need Ultra Instinct. Because someone wore a gear proc. Enough is enough.

Going to play devils advocate here and bring back the same comments everyone said when ball groups complained about azureblight.

Spread out. Don't stack. Block.

Use imov pots. Throw Flares.

There are ALWAYS ways to counter ball groups - most people are just lazy.

If we are going to play devils advocate, then ZOS should follow suit and do to Rush what ZOS did to Azureblight and delete it from the game.

LadyGP wrote: »

most people are just lazy

Do ball groups really need a set to automate their bombs for them? Should Rushing Agony end up nuked into orbit because its automation rewards lazy gameplay, your ball group would have the work ethic to adapt, yes?

IncultaWolf wrote: »

Are you talking about the rush combo with the warden class mastery charm? Because yeah unless you have streak, it's very difficult to escape getting hit by anything there.

I've seen different fear stuns and they all have the same result. Instant death unless you react the instant they become visible, and you're right that Streak is the only reliable way out. Really reinforces the Storm Calling meta.

At this point, the lack of communication or even acknowledgment of the problem has gone from “they don’t hear us”, to “they’re ignoring us” to “they’re telling us to suck it up and deal”. After all this time, if Rushing Agony hasn’t been fixed, then I have no faith it’s getting fixed.

Both AB and Rush are sets which are/were bugged and both should be adjusted.Even if it stuns after you use it rush would still be a decent set for groups to use much as dark con is still a decent set.

LadyGP wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

The new subclass Rushing Agony build specifically circumvents blocking by dropping Colossus ult into fear stun. There's a split second to react when they first become visible. You block, you get fear stunned and instakilled. So now on top of the awkward narrow counterplay, you also need Ultra Instinct. Because someone wore a gear proc. Enough is enough.

Going to play devils advocate here and bring back the same comments everyone said when ball groups complained about azureblight.

Spread out. Don't stack. Block.

Use imov pots. Throw Flares.

There are ALWAYS ways to counter ball groups - most people are just lazy.

If we are going to play devils advocate, then ZOS should follow suit and do to Rush what ZOS did to Azureblight and delete it from the game.

They didn't delete it - they just changed it in a way that was more balanced (but the community hated it).

We tested azure thouroughly - it was not performing as the tooltip explained and it was multiplying the explosions in dmg across all the people wearing it. There was more to it but honestly I can't recal what else was broken with it.

I'm totally for rush being reworked - in no rational conversation am I saying it's fine how it is. I run with a ball group - it's broken. I've said that in many threads.

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

The new subclass Rushing Agony build specifically circumvents blocking by dropping Colossus ult into fear stun. There's a split second to react when they first become visible. You block, you get fear stunned and instakilled. So now on top of the awkward narrow counterplay, you also need Ultra Instinct. Because someone wore a gear proc. Enough is enough.

Going to play devils advocate here and bring back the same comments everyone said when ball groups complained about azureblight.

Spread out. Don't stack. Block.

Use imov pots. Throw Flares.

There are ALWAYS ways to counter ball groups - most people are just lazy.

See my comments on why this set is not balanced. They are probably on every other apologetic comment/thread on this set. Even when the set isn't pulling you from ny to los Angeles its not balanced.

Wrong.

Again, I have said it's not balanced. But one can't deny it's fairly easy to avoid getting pulled by rush if you truly tried. People just get lazy... follow the zerg... people go right to the choke and chase the ball group.. knowing full well what is about to happen (the logic hasn't changed in years why would it change now).. they get pulled...they die...the come to forums and complain.

It's the same cycle.

Me: "See my comments on why this set is not balanced."

You: Wrong.

You again: Again, I have said it's not balanced.

Seems legit.

Radiate77 wrote: »

It’s not an overly complicated problem to solve, they don’t even need to remove anything from the set…

Just bake a stun into the set that procs immediately after the pull so there’s a follow-up immunity, without destroying the identity of the set for those who enjoy it, also killing it’s worst use scenario.

Performance issues aside of this set - this is something I 10000% agree with. In no situation should I be able to double pull someone with Rush. I can not agree more with you this is a change that needs to happen with this set.

It's low hanging fruit that makes even mediocre Ballgroups too effective. I get that awesome Ballgroups with incredible leadership and theory are going to be nigh unbeatable, but this single set makes the ones that would otherwise be somewhat laughable into something very functional.

With all the massive advantages already intrinsic to the playstyle, do you REALLY need Rush of Agony on such a short timer to easy mode gather all your enemies as well?

If they can't correct the weird effects that go with this set such as crazy distance pulls, weird timing and correlation with other abilities/sets, etc, then they simply need to place a MUCH longer cooldown on the effect. It could still be a useful set for Bombers, but would no longer be the total gimme for Ballgroups that it really is.

EDIT: I won't lie, I'd much rather they just remove the damnable thing from play - which is what will probably happen in the (very, very, very, very) long run because that's how things are always handled in all or nothing fashion. A very large cooldown increase might be an acceptable compromise?

The_Meathead wrote: »

It's low hanging fruit that makes even mediocre Ballgroups too effective. I get that awesome Ballgroups with incredible leadership and theory are going to be nigh unbeatable, but this single set makes the ones that would otherwise be somewhat laughable into something very functional.

With all the massive advantages already intrinsic to the playstyle, do you REALLY need Rush of Agony on such a short timer to easy mode gather all your enemies as well?

If they can't correct the weird effects that go with this set such as crazy distance pulls, weird timing and correlation with other abilities/sets, etc, then they simply need to place a MUCH longer cooldown on the effect. It could still be a useful set for Bombers, but would no longer be the total gimme for Ballgroups that it really is.

EDIT: I won't lie, I'd much rather they just remove the damnable thing from play - which is what will probably happen in the (very, very, very, very) long run because that's how things are always handled in all or nothing fashion. A very large cooldown increase might be an acceptable compromise?

The set basically lets "average" ball groups gather big clumps of players, but it doesn’t really help them nail the timing for shalks or proxy detonations, or get their damage lined up properly.

If we’re diving into the "ball group" debate, setting Rush aside, issues like hot stacking, AoE caps, and shield stacking desperately need a major overhaul in PvP. The trouble is, ZOS has historically avoided splitting PvE and PvP tuning. They know how to dial back ball groups while still keeping the playstyle viable, but if they did that and applied it game-wide, the PvE endgame crowd would likely flip out—and that’s why we’re not seeing any moves on this front.

Either we need to leverage battlespirit to figure out which game logic applies, or ZOS should just go ahead and make the changes, letting the PvE community adapt as they see fit.

ercknn wrote: »

Just nerf cross healing in PvP

Then make RoA a hard CC set

Now players can finally stop the carry sets and get good as 1vX’ers

All I see is ball group RoA players. It’s a toxic low ceiling play style that makes others not want to engage in PvP. I see players log off or specifically avoid ball groups because of this.

The RoA, cross healing bot gameplay is systematic, automated and rinse and repeat without a high skill ceiling. You proc up robotically and do the same thing every time.

The 1vX play style is the peak PvP experience that forces the user to adapt to their environment and manage their resources effectively as well as utilizing LoS to defeat their opponents while out numbered. This game play is respectable and veteran PvP’ers know this.

The 1vX play style is not broken and will crumble; be challenged against other high skilled players. This makes a more balanced respectable PvP experience in most scenarios and also challenge other players to get better and continue wanting to PvP.

Cross healing ball groups decimate due to what feels like exploitive skills. I’ve seen players go from 1vX’ers to bombers and have lost their environmental awareness, ability to control the battlefield, manage resources, and LoS in prime situations. Bombing makes players worse at general pvp through lack of critical thinking and by performing a systematic gameplay loop over and over again. (All they do is look for the lowest health target and proc time).


I want players to be better, I want them to avoid the cheese 🧀 builds/sets and use their brains to make “Wow that was cool” moments.
-Bombs are not it
-Invincible pearls-of-ehlnofey healer Templar ultimate cross healer spams are not it
-RoA carry sets are not it
-Warden aoe charm Templar hybrid ulti dump balorgh is not it.
-the list of 🧀 sets and exploits can go on and on but that’s it.

Lastly ball groups will “Stack” RoA making any counter impossible due to being stuck in block; being forced out of block and being pin balled around and then being ultimately dumped on by 6+ players.

Everything in this game has a counter, and most things do to some extent, which makes PvP still somewhat desired.

But RoA spam is not it, it cannot be countered once spammed by 4+ people all at once then ulti dumped.
Please developers, fix this set 🙏

Make it at least be on cooldown.
Stating:

“A player can only be affected by this sets pull every 6 seconds regardless of how many times you are affected by this sets pull every in a 6 second window

You, in a nutshell, alienate every single playstyle except the one (1vX) that you prefer.

I'm not going to respond to every single comment you made but virtually every single one has a very obvious bias/dislike in it and isn't based in fact so I don't see a point.

LadyGP wrote: »

ercknn wrote: »

Just nerf cross healing in PvP

Then make RoA a hard CC set

Now players can finally stop the carry sets and get good as 1vX’ers

All I see is ball group RoA players. It’s a toxic low ceiling play style that makes others not want to engage in PvP. I see players log off or specifically avoid ball groups because of this.

The RoA, cross healing bot gameplay is systematic, automated and rinse and repeat without a high skill ceiling. You proc up robotically and do the same thing every time.

The 1vX play style is the peak PvP experience that forces the user to adapt to their environment and manage their resources effectively as well as utilizing LoS to defeat their opponents while out numbered. This game play is respectable and veteran PvP’ers know this.

The 1vX play style is not broken and will crumble; be challenged against other high skilled players. This makes a more balanced respectable PvP experience in most scenarios and also challenge other players to get better and continue wanting to PvP.

Cross healing ball groups decimate due to what feels like exploitive skills. I’ve seen players go from 1vX’ers to bombers and have lost their environmental awareness, ability to control the battlefield, manage resources, and LoS in prime situations. Bombing makes players worse at general pvp through lack of critical thinking and by performing a systematic gameplay loop over and over again. (All they do is look for the lowest health target and proc time).


I want players to be better, I want them to avoid the cheese 🧀 builds/sets and use their brains to make “Wow that was cool” moments.
-Bombs are not it
-Invincible pearls-of-ehlnofey healer Templar ultimate cross healer spams are not it
-RoA carry sets are not it
-Warden aoe charm Templar hybrid ulti dump balorgh is not it.
-the list of 🧀 sets and exploits can go on and on but that’s it.

Lastly ball groups will “Stack” RoA making any counter impossible due to being stuck in block; being forced out of block and being pin balled around and then being ultimately dumped on by 6+ players.

Everything in this game has a counter, and most things do to some extent, which makes PvP still somewhat desired.

But RoA spam is not it, it cannot be countered once spammed by 4+ people all at once then ulti dumped.
Please developers, fix this set 🙏

Make it at least be on cooldown.
Stating:

“A player can only be affected by this sets pull every 6 seconds regardless of how many times you are affected by this sets pull every in a 6 second window

You, in a nutshell, alienate every single playstyle except the one (1vX) that you prefer.

I'm not going to respond to every single comment you made but virtually every single one has a very obvious bias/dislike in it and isn't based in fact so I don't see a point.

spoilered original quote to save space.

You've derided this person as bias/alienating, but then completely dismissed (or ignored?) an extremely valid point they made about Rush (even ignoring everything else that person said, most of which I agree with you on, this 1 point is especially relevant and goes back to why Rush and AB are not that different when stacked like Rush currently is and AB used to be).

it cannot be countered once spammed by 4+ people.

You stated that AB was an issue when stacked by multiple players, causing an "insane damage spike" of 100k within 1-2 seconds, yet you constantly only talk about Rush as a "single proc" never talking about it being stacked like AB was, this deflection on Rush completely ignores the desync inducing ping pong effect stacking 2, 3 or even 4 procs of Rush of Agony has that causes the targets game to desync.
This desync forces the targets block to be dropped for the second pull onwards, so no, blocking does NOT work, this set cannot be dodged since it's an AoE which are undodgeable and "Stepping out" is impossible without having access to (and block casting) specifically streak multiple times. Even with streak, it is completely ping + lag dependent on being able to avoid the bomb radius and completely RNG on being able to avoid a second or third pull. Due to this dependency on good ping/server-client sync, even streak is unreliable with how random the servers can be if they are good or not and forget about it if you don't live in the same area as the servers.

There's another issue that Rush currently has, that I didn't want to mention, but it has been getting more prevalent recently, which used to occur with Meteor. The "slow pull".
This is where the pull slowly drags your character across the map at walking (not run or sprint, actual slow walk) speed, leaving your character hard CC'd that cannot be broken (like getting knocked off a mount), the entire time/distance your character is sliding, unable to do anything at all, except watch your character slowly slide into the kill zone then drop dead (sometimes even dropping dead mid slide because for some reason your character is still targetable within that slow pull and can be focused down while unable to do anything).
No counterplay, no chance, can't even blame lack of skill/being unaware, just straight up uncounterable/unpreventable slow slide into instant/guaranteed death. Oh, and this one doesn't even require multiple procs of Rush either, a single proc can be enough.

It's issues like this and exploits like the ping pong desync when stacking multiple instances of Rush are why Rush and AB are more like comparing green and red apples, not apples to oranges. It is also why it is such an egregious let down on ZOS end that they completely killed off (in PvP) AB that gave everyone else the required damage to have a chance to fight ball groups, but then are refusing to do anything about Rush that is being abused by ball groups to literally farm (not even fight, just farm) everyone else.

LadyGP wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

The new subclass Rushing Agony build specifically circumvents blocking by dropping Colossus ult into fear stun. There's a split second to react when they first become visible. You block, you get fear stunned and instakilled. So now on top of the awkward narrow counterplay, you also need Ultra Instinct. Because someone wore a gear proc. Enough is enough.

Going to play devils advocate here and bring back the same comments everyone said when ball groups complained about azureblight.

Spread out. Don't stack. Block.

Use imov pots. Throw Flares.

There are ALWAYS ways to counter ball groups - most people are just lazy.

If we are going to play devils advocate, then ZOS should follow suit and do to Rush what ZOS did to Azureblight and delete it from the game.

They didn't delete it - they just changed it in a way that was more balanced (but the community hated it).

If we're going to split hairs, then lets split those hairs properly.

ZOS should completely remove Rush of Agony from PVP, by making it only work against monsters, then also nerf it a bunch of times as well, just like they did with Azureblight (which is all there in the patch notes for anyone to check).

We tested azure thouroughly - it was not performing as the tooltip explained and it was multiplying the explosions in dmg across all the people wearing it. There was more to it but honestly I can't recal what else was broken with it.

And Rush is also not performing as the tooltip explains, pulling players much further than it should, pulling through walls, doors and other solid obsticles, yet no rework on rush at all (not even to fix what are highly exploitable bugs the set has, bugs that I won't repeat here since that would be against ToS).

But 1 single forum thread on AB, less than 1 month of complaints from an extremely small minority of players that only play a single playstyle and despite huge counter points in favor of AB from the majority, 1 PTS cycle later, AB was completely removed from PvP "while ZOS worked on a fix" and then subsequently nerfed again in a later patch...

The bare minimum ZOS could do is make Rush of Agony only work against monsters (it is sourced from a PvE dungeon after all) while they take their time to figure out how to fix the set. This is what they did with AB, so why is it so controversial to want the same to happen with Rush of Agony?

I'm totally for rush being reworked - in no rational conversation am I saying it's fine how it is. I run with a ball group - it's broken. I've said that in many threads.

Then maybe stop "playing devils advocate" and giving excuses/defenses (even if in jest) for Rush, that only serve to end up massively downplaying the issues of Rush. Doing so, only serves to provoke irrational conversation, which lets ZOS continue to ignore such a broken and exploitable crutch set that is killing (or has killed) PvP as a mode in this game.

I hear you.

The damage was insane—over 100,000 in a couple seconds—with no blocking or healing able to stop it, even outside ball groups. This got worse when griefers teamed up in groups of four to six. I was in guilds that tested it, and we had data showing that under specific conditions (like the number of players wearing it), the set could 10x the damage with just one skill cast. If the whole group synced it, you’d see damage spike well over 100,000 in a second or two. The tooltip math never matched up, and we even had freezes and crashes in someone’s house—not even in Cyro—when those bombs went off. With that level of chaos, no counterplay, and the Veng test looming with performance data in hand, ZOS had to act.

Rush of Agony, though? It’s got its quirks—pulling through walls or too far during lag spikes—but it’s not on the same level. You can block it, dodge it, or step out when you see the bomb coming. It’s annoying, sure, and I’ve vented about it in coms as a ball group player who actually likes the set. But it’s not crashing people or killing PVP like Azureblight did.

I’m all for a rework—those issues should’ve been fixed ages ago—but with Veng testing around the corner, ZOS probably isn’t rushing unless it’s a total disaster.

I wasn’t happy with how ZOS pulled Azureblight from PVP—it felt like a lazy fix, and I’d have loved to see them adjust the math for a fair fight against ball groups. The forum backlash alone should’ve made them pause (the optics of their move... oof). But the lag and toxic playstyle were massive factors, way beyond just ball group complaints. Comparing it to Rush feels like apples and oranges.

I’m on board for fixing Rush, but let’s not pretend they’re equally broken.

They aren't equally broken.

RoA is hands down much more disruptive.

You are spending a lot of time writing posts downplaying the problems people have with RoA, but everything you've written comes from the perspective of an organized group player, the people who benefit by far the most from this set.

I've run in an organized group since 2014 and see firsthand how crystal clear obvious broken how RoA is. Whenever we tried to run any other different pull set (let alone a different strategy), our shot caller after 10 minutes always went back to RoA because the difference was that noticeable. Our guild vs guild "fights" have become nothing more than us circling each other for 10-12 seconds waiting for the cooldown of this set before re-engaging. It was the only tactic both sides ever did because the entire ball group strategy and group composition comes down to the functionality of this set. It is so repetitive and dull, a lot of PC/NA guilds left. Now we have to cannibalize or borrow from each other to field 12. That is the definition of a broken/overpowered set: when it becomes so meta that not only does every single organized group uses it in the exact same way, but also the entire gameplay revolves around it.

In this post you're trying to make it seem as if Azureblight is the bigger offender, tossing around things like "damage was insane—over 100,000 in a couple seconds—with no blocking or healing able to stop it," "griefers teamed up in groups of four to six," and "no counterplay," This is all bias. There is absolutely easy counterplay. You've said it yourself, I'll quote you:

Spread out. Don't stack

It' really was that simple. Nobody who ever did that was hit with a 100K Azurblight tick.

That's the big difference between Azureblight and RoA, and why the latter is much more hated. If I am all by myself and a bloodthirsty ball group has nothing else better to do than zerg me down, if they are using Azureblight, they will not kill me. If they have RoA, I cannot get away from them. One set is disruptive against every single player in the game. The other is only disruptive to those players who stack on top of each other.

Somehow, people who used Azureblight against your organized group were "griefers" because it was insanely effective against how you like to play they game. But somehow when the insanely effective RoA is used by organized groups against everyone else, it's not griefing and they just have to learn to block.

That's the difference. The people who defend RoA or downplay its absolutely broken nature are beneficiaries/users of the set, but they have no problem lobbying ZOS to nerf anything disruptive to their personal playstyle, whether it's Azureblight, Jesus Beam, Vicious Death, stealth ganking, whatever. It's all bias.

An objective evaluation of RoA is easy:

1. Is this set used by everyone in a particular style of gameplay to the expense of everything else? Yes.
2. Is this set so powerful/applicable in wide variety of circumstances/situations such that other options are not considered? Yes.

By virtue of every organized group using this set and playing the exact same way regardless of situation, those organized groups are telling us RoA is broken because every other option or strategy is so markedly inferior, they aren't even up for consideration.

Turtle and NxJoeyD hit the nail on the head with those explanations!

lol and the “SLOW” meteor ☄️ effect 😂. I hate hold block on what feels like 10 sec only to get RoA pulled into an unblocked meteor. Feels the worst. It’s even worse when groups specifically time those to trap you in ceiling or keep walls.

Fixing the broken aspects of meteor should have been fixed over a year ago.

But guess what, meteor is just like another RoA in the sense that it’s something not working as intended, and players exploit it and then ZOS doesn’t do anything about it because you then have a split player base. Players that use and abuse exploits to have an upper end; taking easy street; WANT a low skill ceiling. And then you have players who don’t and want things to work as intended on fair grounds.

Someone above mentioned that I alienated the 1vX play style as BIAS in my last post.
You don’t understand.
I feel like I need to explain this to you and others that might be reading so we can get our point across why RoA is toxic and ruining the long term PvP experience.

The 1vX play style is Objectively the highest ceiling you can go when it comes to in ESO PvP. Every end game, long term, veteran PvP’er knows this, and because of this the 1vX is the most respectable play style.
I know because I have earned it this way, and not through bombing, cross heal botting, unkillable necro tank, etc
Bombing is NOT, despite people making glorified videos, despite people taking out 15+ in one go.
The 1vX style has and has always been and will be the master of all PvP routes. It is the sublime end game that only the truly mastered players will achieve.

ROA spam by either 3+ pinball groups and cross healing on RoA systematic proc goers ruins this play style by creating a toxic loop that can only be conquered by either adding more cross heals to your group or more RoA spam with 2+ negates, DK or scribing chain pull all times with soul tether, Goliath ulti dumps.

We need to stop RoA. and for the sake of the conversation, cross healing as well
Just end it now, and things will be so much better.

The ceiling will open up and players will have much more to work with and play with.
This will extend the longevity of PvP and make the experience better as a whole.