The More Oakensouls, the Stronger We Strike!

Asikoo · June 25

What if the developers added a new passive effect to the Oakensoul Ring like this:

"Increase the damage of your Heavy Attacks by 10% for every other Oakensoul user within 12 meters of you."

Image from ESO-Hub.com, edited by your friendly neighborhood OP! let the 3WW begin!

Why this change would be amazing:
This bonus would encourage Oakensoul players to team up and play together rather than being isolated or excluded from group content. It would create a sense of synergy and community among Oakensoul users, allowing them to form their own effective groups with a unique playstyle built around Heavy Attacks.

This would be a win-win for everyone. Oakensoul players would be empowered to create their own groups, just like other players often suggest when gatekeeping these builds with comments like “we don’t want to carry easy-mode builds, make your own group.” With a mechanic that rewards Oakensoul cooperation, those players could do exactly that, form focused, synergized groups that don’t rely on anyone else’s approval to perform well or feel welcome.

This change wouldn't just be a buff — it would add identity and group value to Oakensoul users, encouraging teamwork without compromising the accessibility and simplicity that make the ring so popular in the first place.

Note:

I honestly can't wait to hear all the excuses now. If the developers actually made this change, and of course, they probably won’t, because it would be fun, it would bring joy back to Oakensoul players, and it would break the gatekeeping, but if they did...

What excuse would you have left to oppose it?

Maitsukas · June 25

Good luck getting loot at populated WBs.

Soarora · June 25

Oakensoul users are already encouraged to create their own groups and have done so (inherent buff availability means different support sets + the culture around oakensoul). You just need to keep looking. Even as a non-oakensoul user it took me quite a while to find the right trial group for me.

Also… if this was a bonus its something that should be added to Rakkhat’s instead, 2-bar heavy attack being far worse than 1-bar doesn’t make any sense (easier build more damage??) and it’s a gripe I’ve had for some time.

Your continuous posting about this is just further proving the point people have about oakensoul culture. You do not need the ring to make a good 1-bar ha build and it is not impossible to find a group that will let you play it. I know several groups of people who are fine with 1-bar ha builds…

Islyn · June 25

Soarora wrote: »

Oakensoul users are already encouraged to create their own groups and have done so. You just need to keep looking. Even as a non-oakensoul user it took me quite a while to find the right trial group for me.

Also… if this was a bonus its something that should be added to Rakkhat’s instead, 2-bar heavy attack being far worse than 1-bar doesn’t make any sense (easier build more damage??) and it’s a gripe I’ve had for some time.

I've been away over a year

are Oakensoul users not allowed to join in reindeer games or sth? (I use it on my crafter lol so she can just grab her stuff)

Soarora · June 25

Islyn wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Oakensoul users are already encouraged to create their own groups and have done so. You just need to keep looking. Even as a non-oakensoul user it took me quite a while to find the right trial group for me.

Also… if this was a bonus its something that should be added to Rakkhat’s instead, 2-bar heavy attack being far worse than 1-bar doesn’t make any sense (easier build more damage??) and it’s a gripe I’ve had for some time.

I've been away over a year are Oakensoul users not allowed to join in reindeer games or sth? (I use it on my crafter lol so she can just grab her stuff)

Ahah I edited my post for clarity as to what I mean. No, plenty of groups allow 1-bar HA, but there’s also enough people complaining about the ones that don’t that they might as well group together and make a 1-bar HA group… it just takes 1 person to make a server and solve the problem.

Islyn · June 25

Soarora wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Oakensoul users are already encouraged to create their own groups and have done so. You just need to keep looking. Even as a non-oakensoul user it took me quite a while to find the right trial group for me.

Also… if this was a bonus its something that should be added to Rakkhat’s instead, 2-bar heavy attack being far worse than 1-bar doesn’t make any sense (easier build more damage??) and it’s a gripe I’ve had for some time.

I've been away over a year are Oakensoul users not allowed to join in reindeer games or sth? (I use it on my crafter lol so she can just grab her stuff)

Ahah I edited my post for clarity as to what I mean. No, plenty of groups allow 1-bar HA, but there’s also enough people complaining about the ones that don’t that they might as well group together and make a 1-bar HA group… it just takes 1 person to make a server and solve the problem.

OIC OK Idk b/c I never really play with that other than on my crafter chick so she can just HA any trash down ez and I don't have to subclass/change gear/build etc w her :P she's semi retired and collects maps and surveys basically

Asikoo · June 25

To clarify: I'm not saying it's impossible to find groups as an Oakensoul user. I'm saying the design itself doesn’t support those players in a meaningful way, it relies on individuals to “just make a server” or “just keep looking,” which isn't the same as giving the build a supported gameplay loop or identity.

What I’m suggesting isn’t about making Oakensoul stronger than 2bar builds. It’s about creating a fun, self-contained synergy that allows Oakensoul players to support each other and actually scale with teamwork, the same way other builds benefit from coordinated buffs, sets, and rotations.

The current attitude is often: “Make your own group.”
Cool, this change would let Oakensoul users do exactly that, but in a way that feels rewarding, not like they’re just accepting scraps.

Also, comparing it to Rakkhat's is interesting, but Oakensoul is a mythic that locks you into one bar. If anything, it should offer unique advantages within that constraint. Not because it’s “easier,” but because it’s deliberately limited. Right now, it’s just limited without meaningful upside in group play.

So yeah. Just asking for design support for an underrepresented playstyle that people already enjoy, instead of telling them to grind Discord for a month to find the one nice group that allows it.

ApoAlaia · June 25

Soarora wrote: »

Oakensoul users are already encouraged to create their own groups and have done so (inherent buff availability means different support sets + the culture around oakensoul). You just need to keep looking. Even as a non-oakensoul user it took me quite a while to find the right trial group for me.

Also… if this was a bonus its something that should be added to Rakkhat’s instead, 2-bar heavy attack being far worse than 1-bar doesn’t make any sense (easier build more damage??) and it’s a gripe I’ve had for some time.

Your continuous posting about this is just further proving the point people have about oakensoul culture. You do not need the ring to make a good 1-bar ha build and it is not impossible to find a group that will let you play it. I know several groups of people who are fine with 1-bar ha builds…

Oakensoul useage is not limited to HA builds though, although I think you will be pleased to know that depending on setting, group comp. etc the damage 'ceiling' is within 50-60% of a two bar build regardless.

Regarding Rhakkhat, personally I think that at the very least we need better sources of Empower to make it desirable; in its current form the optimal setup relies on the 10s passive from MG for it and accurate tracking of off-balance windows/ultimate to get within 75% of the damage of what a two bar build with similar 'attention requirements' can produce while somewhat sharing the resource management conundrum of 2-bar builds, which poses the question 'why would I choose this if with ever so slightly more effort I can achieve 25%+ better results?'.

drkfrontiers · June 25

As if ball groups would not benefit the most......

AcadianPaladin · June 25

As an Oakenhealer, there is an advantage of running a group of Oakensoulers. My healer is all about optimizing her buffs and support to enhance and not duplicate Oakensoul. She focuses on providing what Oakensoul does not, like Major courage, minor sorcery, Major and Minor breach. Ideal when running with other Oakensoulers but works just fine for mixed groups as well. OP might consider starting or joining an Oakensoul guild?

ApoAlaia · June 25

drkfrontiers wrote: »

As if ball groups would not benefit the most......

Apologies in advance for the OT comment.

Ball groups need a K2D sliding penalty mechanic.

The more lopsided the kills to deaths value, the stronger the debuff they receive, including but not only: reduced health recovery/healing, reduced DPS and maybe a nice oblivion damage DoT on top.

The debuff sticks to the players' account (not character) and follows them every time they join a group but drops over time if they don't group up. If they do group up, the more people with the debuff that group together the stronger it gets.

Once the campaign resets, so does the debuff.

That would resolve the current conundrum without having to upend every skill, set and passive in the game (for those who prefer 'old style' PvP over the one proposed by Vengeance).

Soarora · June 25

Asikoo wrote: »

The current attitude is often: “Make your own group.”
Cool, this change would let Oakensoul users do exactly that, but in a way that feels rewarding, not like they’re just accepting scraps.

Also, comparing it to Rakkhat's is interesting, but Oakensoul is a mythic that locks you into one bar. If anything, it should offer unique advantages within that constraint. Not because it’s “easier,” but because it’s deliberately limited. Right now, it’s just limited without meaningful upside in group play.

The attitude is “make your own group” for everything because if no one steps up, no groups get made. I wanted certain trial runs so what did I do? I led them. My friend wanted gear so what did I do? Lead more groups. I wanted dungeon trifectas through a core group so what did I do? I made one! It’s not limited to oakensoul users, making your own group is simply the solution when you can’t find what you’re looking for.

Oakensoul was for 1-bar builds, then empower got slapped on it and it became the go-to for 1-bar HA. Because of infinite empower, buffs, and ease of use, oakensoul HA builds became vastly better than 2-bar HA builds. AKA the harder build is far worse than the easier one. Rakkhat’s is comparable because its a HA mythic. Locking you to one bar is not a constraint when it works better than a 2-bar build, which is one reason why a 2-bar HA build needs to be better than a 1-bar HA build. And what I mean when I say this is a 2-bar HA build should be competitive with 2-bar “LA” builds, not to nerf 1-bar HA.

P.S. oakensorc HA was in fact meta for a while because its tanky, heals, has infinite sustain, and has a fairly easy rotation while still putting out damage. It was not more damage than magDK (this was pre-arcanist), but the ease of use made it a go-to for various tris such as blackrose prison and asylum sanctorium. Arcanist and the nerf to lightning AoE are what broke that meta, so the rest of its bonuses still hold true.

Soarora · June 25

ApoAlaia wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Oakensoul users are already encouraged to create their own groups and have done so (inherent buff availability means different support sets + the culture around oakensoul). You just need to keep looking. Even as a non-oakensoul user it took me quite a while to find the right trial group for me.

Also… if this was a bonus its something that should be added to Rakkhat’s instead, 2-bar heavy attack being far worse than 1-bar doesn’t make any sense (easier build more damage??) and it’s a gripe I’ve had for some time.

Your continuous posting about this is just further proving the point people have about oakensoul culture. You do not need the ring to make a good 1-bar ha build and it is not impossible to find a group that will let you play it. I know several groups of people who are fine with 1-bar ha builds…

Oakensoul useage is not limited to HA builds though, although I think you will be pleased to know that depending on setting, group comp. etc the damage 'ceiling' is within 50-60% of a two bar build regardless.

Regarding Rhakkhat, personally I think that at the very least we need better sources of Empower to make it desirable; in its current form the optimal setup relies on the 10s passive from MG for it and accurate tracking of off-balance windows/ultimate to get within 75% of the damage of what a two bar build with similar 'attention requirements' can produce while somewhat sharing the resource management conundrum of 2-bar builds, which poses the question 'why would I choose this if with ever so slightly more effort I can achieve 25%+ better results?'.

I know, but the popular and “best” build is HA and almost always whats being talked about. I feel like the mythic both being for 1-bar HA and “LA” builds was a mistake and empower shouldn’t have been added to oakensoul because these conversations become muddled (though side note, if someone plays 1-bar because they hate barswapping but they still want to do group content beyond normal… I think most mmos don’t have barswapping. So why even play this one? /genuine question).

Yes, I agree. Empower should be made in-line with other buffs by making it 20 seconds. While the short time probably adds complexity to the build, adding complexity that way doesn’t work when it makes people not use the build. I think HA is a valid playstyle, it just needs to be balanced to have similar difficulty to a 2-bar “LA” build in order to do the same content IMO.

ApoAlaia · June 25

Soarora wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Oakensoul users are already encouraged to create their own groups and have done so (inherent buff availability means different support sets + the culture around oakensoul). You just need to keep looking. Even as a non-oakensoul user it took me quite a while to find the right trial group for me.

Also… if this was a bonus its something that should be added to Rakkhat’s instead, 2-bar heavy attack being far worse than 1-bar doesn’t make any sense (easier build more damage??) and it’s a gripe I’ve had for some time.

Your continuous posting about this is just further proving the point people have about oakensoul culture. You do not need the ring to make a good 1-bar ha build and it is not impossible to find a group that will let you play it. I know several groups of people who are fine with 1-bar ha builds…

Oakensoul useage is not limited to HA builds though, although I think you will be pleased to know that depending on setting, group comp. etc the damage 'ceiling' is within 50-60% of a two bar build regardless.

Regarding Rhakkhat, personally I think that at the very least we need better sources of Empower to make it desirable; in its current form the optimal setup relies on the 10s passive from MG for it and accurate tracking of off-balance windows/ultimate to get within 75% of the damage of what a two bar build with similar 'attention requirements' can produce while somewhat sharing the resource management conundrum of 2-bar builds, which poses the question 'why would I choose this if with ever so slightly more effort I can achieve 25%+ better results?'.

I know, but the popular and “best” build is HA and almost always whats being talked about. I feel like the mythic both being for 1-bar HA and “LA” builds was a mistake and empower shouldn’t have been added to oakensoul because these conversations become muddled (though side note, if someone plays 1-bar because they hate barswapping but they still want to do group content beyond normal… I think most mmos don’t have barswapping. So why even play this one? /genuine question).

Yes, I agree. Empower should be made in-line with other buffs by making it 20 seconds. While the short time probably adds complexity to the build, adding complexity that way doesn’t work when it makes people not use the build. I think HA is a valid playstyle, it just needs to be balanced to have similar difficulty to a 2-bar “LA” build in order to do the same content IMO.

In my case I don't hate barswapping (or builds with 'complex' rotations) per se, is just that sometimes my upper extremities are at odds with my brain (so to speak).

Said that is not an issue for me because on bad days I can join farming runs, 4-player content or w/e with a less demanding build and the people I play with are OK with that.

I have accepted that an actual level playing field is going to be unacceptable to at least a portion of the player base so when I need fun that plays to my strengths I go looking for it elsewhere.

The rest, I genuinely don't know.

preevious · June 25

Soarora wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Oakensoul users are already encouraged to create their own groups and have done so (inherent buff availability means different support sets + the culture around oakensoul). You just need to keep looking. Even as a non-oakensoul user it took me quite a while to find the right trial group for me.

Also… if this was a bonus its something that should be added to Rakkhat’s instead, 2-bar heavy attack being far worse than 1-bar doesn’t make any sense (easier build more damage??) and it’s a gripe I’ve had for some time.

Your continuous posting about this is just further proving the point people have about oakensoul culture. You do not need the ring to make a good 1-bar ha build and it is not impossible to find a group that will let you play it. I know several groups of people who are fine with 1-bar ha builds…

Oakensoul useage is not limited to HA builds though, although I think you will be pleased to know that depending on setting, group comp. etc the damage 'ceiling' is within 50-60% of a two bar build regardless.

Regarding Rhakkhat, personally I think that at the very least we need better sources of Empower to make it desirable; in its current form the optimal setup relies on the 10s passive from MG for it and accurate tracking of off-balance windows/ultimate to get within 75% of the damage of what a two bar build with similar 'attention requirements' can produce while somewhat sharing the resource management conundrum of 2-bar builds, which poses the question 'why would I choose this if with ever so slightly more effort I can achieve 25%+ better results?'.

I know, but the popular and “best” build is HA and almost always whats being talked about. I feel like the mythic both being for 1-bar HA and “LA” builds was a mistake and empower shouldn’t have been added to oakensoul because these conversations become muddled (though side note, if someone plays 1-bar because they hate barswapping but they still want to do group content beyond normal… I think most mmos don’t have barswapping. So why even play this one? /genuine question).

Yes, I agree. Empower should be made in-line with other buffs by making it 20 seconds. While the short time probably adds complexity to the build, adding complexity that way doesn’t work when it makes people not use the build. I think HA is a valid playstyle, it just needs to be balanced to have similar difficulty to a 2-bar “LA” build in order to do the same content IMO.

I agree for the duration. However, an HA build will never have the same difficulty level than a LA build, for the single reason that HA weave is one hell of a lot easier than LA weave.

Zenimax will not re-code the core combat system to make that go away. Too much hassle.
I do however agree that non-oak HA builds can be quite technical as well, and so, still deserve recognition.

I personnaly use Rakkhat over oak, because of the greater damage, but was using oakensoul last patch to perfectly acceptable effect. Enough effect so that I had no trouble finding my way into pug vTrial. Most player were very accepting on that regard.

As for the Oakensoul buff suggested by OP, it would basically create a full oakengroup meta, with the same effect on the other players that the one decried against oakenplayers in this thread.
You don't cure discrimination by reversing it.

KekwLord3000 · June 25

So you wish for a lazy 1 bar HA build that requires 0 skill to out dps fully utilized raid dps?

Renato90085 · June 25

why buff is about heavy attack dmg?

Soarora · June 25

preevious wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Oakensoul users are already encouraged to create their own groups and have done so (inherent buff availability means different support sets + the culture around oakensoul). You just need to keep looking. Even as a non-oakensoul user it took me quite a while to find the right trial group for me.

Also… if this was a bonus its something that should be added to Rakkhat’s instead, 2-bar heavy attack being far worse than 1-bar doesn’t make any sense (easier build more damage??) and it’s a gripe I’ve had for some time.

Your continuous posting about this is just further proving the point people have about oakensoul culture. You do not need the ring to make a good 1-bar ha build and it is not impossible to find a group that will let you play it. I know several groups of people who are fine with 1-bar ha builds…

Oakensoul useage is not limited to HA builds though, although I think you will be pleased to know that depending on setting, group comp. etc the damage 'ceiling' is within 50-60% of a two bar build regardless.

Regarding Rhakkhat, personally I think that at the very least we need better sources of Empower to make it desirable; in its current form the optimal setup relies on the 10s passive from MG for it and accurate tracking of off-balance windows/ultimate to get within 75% of the damage of what a two bar build with similar 'attention requirements' can produce while somewhat sharing the resource management conundrum of 2-bar builds, which poses the question 'why would I choose this if with ever so slightly more effort I can achieve 25%+ better results?'.

I know, but the popular and “best” build is HA and almost always whats being talked about. I feel like the mythic both being for 1-bar HA and “LA” builds was a mistake and empower shouldn’t have been added to oakensoul because these conversations become muddled (though side note, if someone plays 1-bar because they hate barswapping but they still want to do group content beyond normal… I think most mmos don’t have barswapping. So why even play this one? /genuine question).

Yes, I agree. Empower should be made in-line with other buffs by making it 20 seconds. While the short time probably adds complexity to the build, adding complexity that way doesn’t work when it makes people not use the build. I think HA is a valid playstyle, it just needs to be balanced to have similar difficulty to a 2-bar “LA” build in order to do the same content IMO.

I agree for the duration. However, an HA build will never have the same difficulty level than a LA build, for the single reason that HA weave is one hell of a lot easier than LA weave.

Zenimax will not re-code the core combat system to make that go away. Too much hassle.
I do however agree that non-oak HA builds can be quite technical as well, and so, still deserve recognition.

I personnaly use Rakkhat over oak, because of the greater damage, but was using oakensoul last patch to perfectly acceptable effect. Enough effect so that I had no trouble finding my way into pug vTrial. Most player were very accepting on that regard.

As for the Oakensoul buff suggested by OP, it would basically create a full oakengroup meta, with the same effect on the other players that the one decried against oakenplayers in this thread.
You don't cure discrimination by reversing it.

True, though weaving has also decreased in importance over time with the damage nerf, relequen no longer being the best trial set, and velothi. Having HAs take resources was a step in the right direction. I feel like one possible way for HA to have its difficultly curve is by keeping up DoTs between HAs (somewhat similar to making sure DoTs are ticking before using fatecarver but not to the point of sacrificing time that could've been used beaming), something that’s harder of course with 2 bars. I wish HA could use a proc 5pc too because there’s some cool set interactions that could be used but I don’t think they outcompete the flat HA bonuses.

Can confirm I hated the oakensoul meta. It’s one thing to make people wear coral or ansuul or what have you, its another to make them play a completely different playstyle to keep doing the content they were already doing (there were people asking for HA builds for dungeons too and dungeons almost never have build requirements…).

JiubLeRepenti · June 25

No thanks.

This ring and one-bar builds in general are already way too strong, imo. Some setups using the latest mythic (Rakkhat shoulders) are already pushing close to 140k with just one bar.

I totally get that one-bar builds are a great way for new or casual players to get solid results easily — and that’s fine.

But I just don’t want these builds to end up killing gameplay diversity.

One-bar builds with Oakensoul or any other mythic are cool. But two-bar builds with dynamic rotations and multiple DoTs should always be clearly stronger, because they’re harder to play and the effort to master them deserves to be rewarded.

Asikoo · June 25

What’s honestly wild to me is how no one bats an eye at 1bar Arcanists doing 130k+ by just holding down Beam, but the moment someone shows up with Oakensoul, it’s instant gatekeeping. Where’s the logic in that?

Arcanist 1bar builds are everywhere, and they get a free pass because the class is overtuned and Beam is cracked. It’s one button too, and out-parsing many 2bar builds with full rotations. But if someone wants to enjoy the game with Oakensoul, which actually limits your setup and requires tradeoffs, it’s suddenly “lazy,” “unskilled,” or “bad for diversity.”

How is that not a double standard?

I’m not asking for Oakensoul to out-DPS meta builds. But if we’re all fine with 130k 1bar Beams, why is it unacceptable to ask for a lightning HA build to be in the same ballpark?

Let’s be real:

1bar Arcanist Beam: fine, 130k, no complaints.
1bar Oakensoul (90k): “get out, you're dragging us down.”

Where’s the consistency?

What’s wrong with liking different 1bar builds?
What’s wrong with wanting a lightning HA playstyle, or any other class using Oakensoul to perform competitively too?
Both use a single bar. Both simplify rotation. But one is praised and the other shunned.
If an Arcanist can hit 130k+ with zero bar swaps, no effort, and contribute nothing to the group except Beam DPS, then why is it unfair to ask that other one-bar builds be able to do the same? Or at the very least… buff Oakensoul again.

This is all about build freedom. So why are we punishing players who want to play their way, especially when their DPS goal is just “viable,” not “meta”?

All I’m asking is for fair tuning: let 1bar players choose something other than Beam and still be allowed to contribute. What’s wrong with that?

edit:
There’s really no valid argument when people say, “Oakensoul doesn’t bring anything to the group,” yet give Arcanist a free pass, even though it brings nothing either except raw Beam DPS. Arcanist is praised purely because it hits 130k+ (300k+ in trash), while Oakensoul gets rejected for doing the same thing, just with lower DPS (90k/100k). You can’t have it both ways. If Beam spamming Arcanist is fine despite offering no group support, then penalizing Oakensoul players for the same thing makes zero sense.

preevious · June 25

Asikoo wrote: »

What’s honestly wild to me is how no one bats an eye at 1bar Arcanists doing 130k+ by just holding down Beam, but the moment someone shows up with Oakensoul, it’s instant gatekeeping. Where’s the logic in that?

Arcanist 1bar builds are everywhere, and they get a free pass because the class is overtuned and Beam is cracked. It’s one button too, and out-parsing many 2bar builds with full rotations. But if someone wants to enjoy the game with Oakensoul, which actually limits your setup and requires tradeoffs, it’s suddenly “lazy,” “unskilled,” or “bad for diversity.”

How is that not a double standard?

I’m not asking for Oakensoul to out-DPS meta builds. But if we’re all fine with 130k 1bar Beams, why is it unacceptable to ask for a lightning HA build to be in the same ballpark?

Let’s be real:
1bar Arcanist Beam: fine, 130k, no complaints.

1bar Oakensoul (90k): “get out, you're dragging us down.”

Where’s the consistency?

What’s wrong with liking different 1bar builds?
What’s wrong with wanting a lightning HA playstyle, or any other class using Oakensoul to perform competitively too?
Both use a single bar. Both simplify rotation. But one is praised and the other shunned.
If an Arcanist can hit 130k+ with zero bar swaps, no effort, and contribute nothing to the group except Beam DPS, then why is it unfair to ask that other one-bar builds be able to do the same? Or at the very least… buff Oakensoul again.

This is all about build freedom. So why are we punishing players who want to play their way, especially when their DPS goal is just “viable,” not “meta”?

All I’m asking is for fair tuning: let 1bar players choose something other than Beam and still be allowed to contribute. What’s wrong with that?

I agree with this. It's of course a double standard. HA Oakensoul is not an easier build that one-bar arca, indeed. Both are real simple, and it's not fair they are treated differently.I totally agree with that.

Hell, HA rakkhat's are harder to pull of than both.
I wouldn't mind a buff to oakensoul, in the end. It's just that the one proposed here would be a tad overtuned. What would rakkhat's point be, then?

I wouldn't even mind oakensoul and rakkhat's build doing the same damage.
The main difference between the 2 would be that rakkhat is a little better in group settings because of buffs you can receive that are already part of oakensoul and thus lost on them.

Anyway, one of the problem will solve itself, since beam WILL BE nerfed. It's unavoidable.

preevious · June 25

KekwLord3000 wrote: »

So you wish for a lazy 1 bar HA build that requires 0 skill to out dps fully utilized raid dps?

To be fair, a lazy one-bar beam build that requires 0 skill is actually out-dpsing fully optimized raid groups as we speak .. so, not a big stretch.

Asikoo · June 25

preevious wrote: »

KekwLord3000 wrote: »

So you wish for a lazy 1 bar HA build that requires 0 skill to out dps fully utilized raid dps?

To be fair, a lazy one-bar beam build that requires 0 skill is actually out-dpsing fully optimized raid groups as we speak .. so, not a big stretch.

Exactly! The real issue here is the double standard. Everyone calls Oakensoul a “lazy 1-bar HA build that requires zero skill,” yet no one bats an eye at the Arcanist 1bar Beam, which is literally the same thing but with way higher DPS.

I’m not asking for Arcanist to get nerfed at all. I just want Oakensoul to be able to perform on the same level, with the same simple rotation, without getting gatekept or dismissed.

Why is it okay for Arcanist to dominate with minimal effort, but Oakensoul players get criticized?
This double standard is ridiculous and it needs to end.

Renato90085 · June 25

you really know oaken just not have set can swap,cant have good pen and crit dmg in pve endgame,right?
oaken i know best parse is 97k,old patch normal pure arc pveendgame maybe do 105-120,you just need buff the aoe and pen,and have a good 7 med armor dd set...
i have exp lead many newplayer group do trial hardmode,they use oaken clean they first vss/vka/vmol/vhof/vcr hm
but yes, in same buff, you still lost a back bar thing(this is 400+wd and 10-15% part dot dps,and oaken cant or hard run mk/zen/alk
so last they many still swap to 2 bar

kevkj · June 25

"I want to play oakensoul! not meta" turns out to be "I want to use sergeant's mail lightning staff and hold left click". Lightning heavy attack is not exactly some rare endangered playstyle. If you want more damage you just have to use the tools available to you (and everyone else) to improve your damage like subclassing or newly released sets. Just like 2 bar users need to subclass to gain power this patch, so do 1 bar users (or heavy attack). It's not some grand conspiracy against your specific playstyle.

In fact, one bar lightning heavy attack is stronger than it has ever been if you subclass without Oakensoul (even without the Voidmantle mythic). So unless the Oakensoul ring is physically fused to your irl finger, why not spend a week without it? The sun will still rise, the earth will keep spinning. Taking the ring off doesn't mean you abandon your devotion to one bar lightning heavy attack, it just means you chose to improve your setup.

HatchetHaro · June 25

Asikoo wrote: »

What’s honestly wild to me is how no one bats an eye at 1bar Arcanists doing 130k+ by just holding down Beam, but the moment someone shows up with Oakensoul, it’s instant gatekeeping. Where’s the logic in that?

Arcanist 1bar builds are everywhere, and they get a free pass because the class is overtuned and Beam is cracked. It’s one button too, and out-parsing many 2bar builds with full rotations. But if someone wants to enjoy the game with Oakensoul, which actually limits your setup and requires tradeoffs, it’s suddenly “lazy,” “unskilled,” or “bad for diversity.”

How is that not a double standard?

I’m not asking for Oakensoul to out-DPS meta builds. But if we’re all fine with 130k 1bar Beams, why is it unacceptable to ask for a lightning HA build to be in the same ballpark?

Let’s be real:
1bar Arcanist Beam: fine, 130k, no complaints.

1bar Oakensoul (90k): “get out, you're dragging us down.”

Where’s the consistency?

What’s wrong with liking different 1bar builds?
What’s wrong with wanting a lightning HA playstyle, or any other class using Oakensoul to perform competitively too?
Both use a single bar. Both simplify rotation. But one is praised and the other shunned.
If an Arcanist can hit 130k+ with zero bar swaps, no effort, and contribute nothing to the group except Beam DPS, then why is it unfair to ask that other one-bar builds be able to do the same? Or at the very least… buff Oakensoul again.

This is all about build freedom. So why are we punishing players who want to play their way, especially when their DPS goal is just “viable,” not “meta”?

All I’m asking is for fair tuning: let 1bar players choose something other than Beam and still be allowed to contribute. What’s wrong with that?

edit:
There’s really no valid argument when people say, “Oakensoul doesn’t bring anything to the group,” yet give Arcanist a free pass, even though it brings nothing either except raw Beam DPS. Arcanist is praised purely because it hits 130k+ (300k+ in trash), while Oakensoul gets rejected for doing the same thing, just with lower DPS (90k/100k). You can’t have it both ways. If Beam spamming Arcanist is fine despite offering no group support, then penalizing Oakensoul players for the same thing makes zero sense.

... because it's lower damage. That's the whole point. If you're a DPS, your entire job is dealing damage.

Another thing is that Oakensoul heavy-attack builds has such a low skill ceiling that its users become complacent in their ability to do damage; thus, when higher damage is asked of them, they'd struggle to adapt, because at that point, they never learned how to weave light attacks, barswap, manage uptimes, or practice rotations. Practically nothing they do on an Oakensoul heavy-attack build transfers over to a "proper" damage build. With a one-bar Arcanist, at least they still learn to weave light attacks in between abilities.

Soarora · June 25

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Asikoo wrote: »

What’s honestly wild to me is how no one bats an eye at 1bar Arcanists doing 130k+ by just holding down Beam, but the moment someone shows up with Oakensoul, it’s instant gatekeeping. Where’s the logic in that?

Arcanist 1bar builds are everywhere, and they get a free pass because the class is overtuned and Beam is cracked. It’s one button too, and out-parsing many 2bar builds with full rotations. But if someone wants to enjoy the game with Oakensoul, which actually limits your setup and requires tradeoffs, it’s suddenly “lazy,” “unskilled,” or “bad for diversity.”

How is that not a double standard?

I’m not asking for Oakensoul to out-DPS meta builds. But if we’re all fine with 130k 1bar Beams, why is it unacceptable to ask for a lightning HA build to be in the same ballpark?

Let’s be real:
1bar Arcanist Beam: fine, 130k, no complaints.

1bar Oakensoul (90k): “get out, you're dragging us down.”

Where’s the consistency?

What’s wrong with liking different 1bar builds?
What’s wrong with wanting a lightning HA playstyle, or any other class using Oakensoul to perform competitively too?
Both use a single bar. Both simplify rotation. But one is praised and the other shunned.
If an Arcanist can hit 130k+ with zero bar swaps, no effort, and contribute nothing to the group except Beam DPS, then why is it unfair to ask that other one-bar builds be able to do the same? Or at the very least… buff Oakensoul again.

This is all about build freedom. So why are we punishing players who want to play their way, especially when their DPS goal is just “viable,” not “meta”?

All I’m asking is for fair tuning: let 1bar players choose something other than Beam and still be allowed to contribute. What’s wrong with that?

edit:
There’s really no valid argument when people say, “Oakensoul doesn’t bring anything to the group,” yet give Arcanist a free pass, even though it brings nothing either except raw Beam DPS. Arcanist is praised purely because it hits 130k+ (300k+ in trash), while Oakensoul gets rejected for doing the same thing, just with lower DPS (90k/100k). You can’t have it both ways. If Beam spamming Arcanist is fine despite offering no group support, then penalizing Oakensoul players for the same thing makes zero sense.

... because it's lower damage. That's the whole point. If you're a DPS, your entire job is dealing damage.

Another thing is that Oakensoul heavy-attack builds has such a low skill ceiling that its users become complacent in their ability to do damage; thus, when higher damage is asked of them, they'd struggle to adapt, because at that point, they never learned how to weave light attacks, barswap, manage uptimes, or practice rotations. Practically nothing they do on an Oakensoul heavy-attack build transfers over to a "proper" damage build. With a one-bar Arcanist, at least they still learn to weave light attacks in between abilities.

Plus, again, leads have been burned by oakensoul attitudes. (Especially the good ol “if I’m good at mechanics it shouldn’t matter if I have 50k less DPS than the second lowest dps”). If you can do a 1-bar ha build that does more damage without oakensoul, then why do people still cling to oakensoul?

1-bar Arcanist without oakensoul doesn’t have the same social history as oakensoul. Ever since the mythic was announced its been constant fights over who the mythic is for (even right when it released people were arguing IN ZONE CHAT, WHILE FARMING that people with disabilities should get first dibs on the leads) and if its overtuned (healing, defensive, and damage on an easy build, heroism in pvp) or undertuned (doesn’t do enough damage…? Except it does?) and whose allowed in groups. That social history is never going away.

It’s one item. You do not need to use it to succeed. You do not need to play with people who will not like you for using oakensoul. There is power in your hands right this moment, use it.

sarahthes · June 25

Asikoo wrote: »

What if the developers added a new passive effect to the Oakensoul Ring like this:

"Increase the damage of your Heavy Attacks by 10% for every other Oakensoul user within 12 meters of you."

Image from ESO-Hub.com, edited by your friendly neighborhood OP! let the 3WW begin!

Why this change would be amazing:
This bonus would encourage Oakensoul players to team up and play together rather than being isolated or excluded from group content. It would create a sense of synergy and community among Oakensoul users, allowing them to form their own effective groups with a unique playstyle built around Heavy Attacks.

This would be a win-win for everyone. Oakensoul players would be empowered to create their own groups, just like other players often suggest when gatekeeping these builds with comments like “we don’t want to carry easy-mode builds, make your own group.” With a mechanic that rewards Oakensoul cooperation, those players could do exactly that, form focused, synergized groups that don’t rely on anyone else’s approval to perform well or feel welcome.

This change wouldn't just be a buff — it would add identity and group value to Oakensoul users, encouraging teamwork without compromising the accessibility and simplicity that make the ring so popular in the first place.

Note:
I honestly can't wait to hear all the excuses now. If the developers actually made this change, and of course, they probably won’t, because it would be fun, it would bring joy back to Oakensoul players, and it would break the gatekeeping, but if they did...

What excuse would you have left to oppose it?

If this was actually done, endgame would meme with it, break the game, and just get it nerfed again because they'd do crazy unintended stuff with it, like 0 portal Bahsei.

Trust me, you don't want your pet mythics buffed enough that actual endgamers use them. That's a speedrun to getting them nerfed.

Asikoo · June 25

We keep talking about performance and skill, but we’re missing the forest for the trees. This isn’t just about numbers, it’s about design philosophy. Oakensoul was never meant to top the meters; it was meant to broaden access. It enabled more players to step into content confidently, without replacing or threatening high-end meta builds. Gutting it, while leaving things like one-bar Arcanists untouched, doesn’t feel like balance. It feels arbitrary.

I don’t have exact numbers, but just look around: in any given group of 8 DDs, 5 or 6 are likely Arcanists. Why? Because the Beam is overtuned and easy to use, and no one complains. Groupfinder messages regularly say "No Oakensoul" or "HA = kick", but we never see "No onebar Arcanists". That says a lot about what players really care about: raw DPS, not actual balance or fairness across playstyles.

If the goal is real balance, then we should be having a much broader conversation. Why are certain easy, high-performing builds accepted, while others, weaker, but accessible, are stigmatized? Balance isn’t just about damage numbers. It’s about giving players room to experiment, grow, and enjoy the game their way.

This isn’t about damage charts anymore, it’s about whether ESO still has room for alternate builds, or whether you either full-sweat or fall behind. That’s the real problem.

sarahthes · June 25

Asikoo wrote: »

We keep talking about performance and skill, but we’re missing the forest for the trees. This isn’t just about numbers, it’s about design philosophy. Oakensoul was never meant to top the meters; it was meant to broaden access. It enabled more players to step into content confidently, without replacing or threatening high-end meta builds. Gutting it, while leaving things like one-bar Arcanists untouched, doesn’t feel like balance. It feels arbitrary.

I don’t have exact numbers, but just look around: in any given group of 8 DDs, 5 or 6 are likely Arcanists. Why? Because the Beam is overtuned and easy to use, and no one complains. Groupfinder messages regularly say "No Oakensoul" or "HA = kick", but we never see "No onebar Arcanists". That says a lot about what players really care about: raw DPS, not actual balance or fairness across playstyles.

If the goal is real balance, then we should be having a much broader conversation. Why are certain easy, high-performing builds accepted, while others, weaker, but accessible, are stigmatized? Balance isn’t just about damage numbers. It’s about giving players room to experiment, grow, and enjoy the game their way.

This isn’t about damage charts anymore, it’s about whether ESO still has room for alternate builds, or whether you either full-sweat or fall behind. That’s the real problem.

If you think people aren't complaining about arcanists you just aren't paying attention.

Asikoo · June 25

HatchetHaro wrote: »

... because it's lower damage. That's the whole point. If you're a DPS, your entire job is dealing damage.

Another thing is that Oakensoul heavy-attack builds has such a low skill ceiling that its users become complacent in their ability to do damage; thus, when higher damage is asked of them, they'd struggle to adapt, because at that point, they never learned how to weave light attacks, barswap, manage uptimes, or practice rotations. Practically nothing they do on an Oakensoul heavy-attack build transfers over to a "proper" damage build. With a one-bar Arcanist, at least they still learn to weave light attacks in between abilities.

But that’s exactly the problem, we keep defining DPS value purely by theoretical peak damage and ignore context. Oakensoul builds do lower damage, yes, but they open up content for players who might not be able to manage full rotations, barswapping, and constant buff upkeep. That accessibility is the point. It’s not trying to replace high-end builds, it’s providing a bridge to them.

And honestly, saying Oakensoul players learn nothing just isn’t fair. Everyone starts somewhere. If a player learns to manage combat basics with Oakensoul, positioning, mechanics, survival, even just paying attention, that’s already progress. Not everyone plays to push top parses. And frankly, if we’re really worried about low skill ceilings, where’s the outrage over 1bar Arcanists spamming Beam for 130k+? That takes barely more input than a HA build, yet it’s perfectly accepted, why? Only because it does more DPS?

This isn’t about preserving high skill. It’s about maintaining a culture where "big numbers" matter more than inclusivity or fun. And when the game keeps punishing accessible builds instead of overtuned ones, it’s no wonder we end up with 6 Arcanists in every pug group and a shrinking pool of casuals in endgame.

If balance only means chasing peak damage, we’ve already lost sight of what makes ESO’s combat great.

And honestly, we should ask ourselves: what kind of community are we building here? One where a player who runs 2bars and parses 180k, or a 1bar Arcanist who hits 130+k, is celebrated and welcomed into score pushes and World Record attempts, while a Oakensoul player, doing 95–100k, gets gatekept out of Hard Mode Trials entirely, even when they have no interest in score runs at all?

Why is it okay to have low-effort high-output builds like 1bar Beam Arcanists dominate group content, but not okay for someone to run a simpler build that fits their needs and still clears content? If we only care about DPS numbers, and not player goals, team cooperation, or actual clear rates, then we’re not chasing balance, we’re just chasing elitism.