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Arcanist still OP
Jotiqua
✭✭
Arcanists still, almost 2 years after release, are disgustingly OP in PvE, If you check any Leaderboards its 90% Arcanists. Other Classes either need a Strong push to compete or that ugly ass Laserskill needs a serious Nerf.
Subclassing promised such a diversity in Builds, but it only ended up beeing Arcanists evreywhere.
Subclassing promised such a diversity in Builds, but it only ended up beeing Arcanists evreywhere.
13
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Treeshka✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well it does not matter much since i am using an Arcanist skill but i am playing with my main character and still doing decent damage. Nightblade without using any scribe skill. But still using two beams.1 -
Heronisan✭✭✭It will get nerfed, anyone who thought subclassing would end up with different variety have no clue.
Some solo players like to pretend only scorepushing end gamers are the ones following the meta, but fail to recognise oakensoul and heavy attack is also a meta, which is why every single one of them run lighting staff, so is arcanist, be it 1 bar or 2 bar. The vast majority of players do follow a meta in this game.
On xbox only 5.86% of the playerbase have the achievement for getting a character to level 50. Showing an enourmous amount of players just drop the game completely, there are far less solo players then you would think in endgame. The players that stick around to level 50 almost all of them follow a meta, everytime there was an event where some good stuff could drop from a WB or harrowstorm or something like that all you see is lighting staff heavy attack. And now all you will see is lazers and heavy attack.
Maybe we get some variety back when they nerf beam, but they have created a god mode skill for low-mid tier players, if they nerf beam, it will be the scorepusher who swap it out. Since u cant beat the ease of use and aoe capabilites.1 -
Sarannah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Arcanist beam is NOT overpowered, it is just easy to use and build around.
Every class should have it's own channeled AOE to build around, with visuals themed for that specific class.11 -
BXR_Lonestar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Arcanist beam is NOT overpowered, it is just easy to use and build around.
Every class should have it's own channeled AOE to build around, with visuals themed for that specific class.
I honestly think it is more than "it is easy to build around." I think it synergizes well with the high-end damage sets like coral riptide because it is an easy way to keep your stam low while still being able to attack, hence maximizing your uptime on what is more or less approximately 15% extra damage (roughly) to ALL your attacks.
I hate these kind of mini-game sets personally, but Arcanist + Riptide just feels like you are able to maximize the damage bonus without thinking about things, which lets you focus on perfecting your rotation. THIS is why arcanists are the top DPS. No light attack rotations. No need to stack multiple DOT abilities on your bar, leaving room for you to stack damage buffing abilities (6% from Black Rose Dual Wield + another 6% from banner) on top of fighters guild buffs front bar (approximately 8% extra weapon damage), + velothi ur which is an extra 10% damage, + deadly (15% damage to channels), and so on. It is quite literally the easiest class to equip a bunch of synergizing sets and abilities together without wasted abilities or skill slots.
But IMO, the arcanist really isn't good for anything else but DPS. I hear Arcanist tanks are OK, but DK is still king, and as a healer, it is only "meh."1 -
RealLoveBVB✭✭✭✭✭
✭Arcanist beam is NOT overpowered, it is just easy to use and build around.
Every class should have it's own channeled AOE to build around, with visuals themed for that specific class.
Hu? If you check any raid log, then beam will always provide almost 50% of your total damage. One.Single.Skill.
Tell me just one skill, that does the same. And we are not talking about 20k dps here.9 -
WuffyCerulei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yeah they gotta nerf that nonsense still. One skill should not still be the main meta overall, ESPECIALLY with subclassing.Sorcerer's pretty much been the same for years. Nerf Rush of Agony and Saints&Seducer's4 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭BXR_Lonestar wrote: »THIS is why arcanists are the top DPS.
What metric are you using to come to this conclusion? Are they the most played? Absolutely, but looking at the ranking system used by ESOlogs and taking account of your other comment:BXR_Lonestar wrote: »But IMO, the arcanist really isn't good for anything else but DPS. I hear Arcanist tanks are OK, but DK is still king, and as a healer, it is only "meh."
We see this outcome:
Arcanist: 2nd best tank, 3rd best healer, 4th best dps.
Acranist: By far the most played:
The question of course becomes: How much do we trust the scores produced by ESOlogs? How accurate are they?
The one thing ESOlogs does have going for it is the consistent metric it is applying, which while the questions above are up for debate, it is a sustained recorder metric which puts it light years ahead of how people "feel".
ESOlogs: https://esologs.com/zone/statistics/18?region=22
Edit: TyposEdited by Gabriel_H on June 17, 2025 2:40PM5 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭RealLoveBVB wrote: »Arcanist beam is NOT overpowered, it is just easy to use and build around.
Every class should have it's own channeled AOE to build around, with visuals themed for that specific class.
Hu? If you check any raid log, then beam will always provide almost 50% of your total damage. One.Single.Skill.
Tell me just one skill, that does the same. And we are not talking about 20k dps here.
It makes it easier to play, but that alone does not make it the best. The differential between the pre-U46 classes was marginal - in content.2 -
Jotiqua✭✭Especially with the ongoing Trend to overrun people with Adds in Trial/Dungeonbossfights the Arcanist just dominates with its Range and Multihit, running Lep Seclusa HM yesterday it feels like this fight was designed for Arcanist DD's it all beeing a Straight line and CC-Shitshow for anyone who doesn't have a ''spammable'' that makes you immune to nonsense like that.
For Old Trials its been like 2-3 Elites during the Fight if that.
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Ezhh✭✭✭✭✭
✭
We see this outcome:
I usually prefer to filter by dps for DD, not by points. Arc's easily ahead of the others then if you make that one switch on the provided link. Though that's also update 43 for some reason? Not current?
For any current figures it all gets less clear anyway, since what would be useful to see is beam using DDs vs non-beam using DDs.Edited by Ezhh on June 17, 2025 2:58PM4 -
RealLoveBVB✭✭✭✭✭
✭RealLoveBVB wrote: »Arcanist beam is NOT overpowered, it is just easy to use and build around.
Every class should have it's own channeled AOE to build around, with visuals themed for that specific class.
Hu? If you check any raid log, then beam will always provide almost 50% of your total damage. One.Single.Skill.
Tell me just one skill, that does the same. And we are not talking about 20k dps here.
It makes it easier to play, but that alone does not make it the best. The differential between the pre-U46 classes was marginal - in content.
Tell me another skill that does around 50% of your damage.1 -
SkaiFaith✭✭✭✭✭
✭It will get nerfed, anyone who thought subclassing would end up with different variety have no clue.
Some solo players like to pretend only scorepushing end gamers are the ones following the meta, but fail to recognise oakensoul and heavy attack is also a meta, which is why every single one of them run lighting staff, so is arcanist, be it 1 bar or 2 bar. The vast majority of players do follow a meta in this game.
On xbox only 5.86% of the playerbase have the achievement for getting a character to level 50. Showing an enourmous amount of players just drop the game completely, there are far less solo players then you would think in endgame. The players that stick around to level 50 almost all of them follow a meta, everytime there was an event where some good stuff could drop from a WB or harrowstorm or something like that all you see is lighting staff heavy attack. And now all you will see is lazers and heavy attack.
Maybe we get some variety back when they nerf beam, but they have created a god mode skill for low-mid tier players, if they nerf beam, it will be the scorepusher who swap it out. Since u cant beat the ease of use and aoe capabilites.
It's funny how on one side there are people shouting that Oakensoul is not that good and demonstrating how, in fact, it is not best in slot, while on the other side we have people saying Beam is AS OP, AS META, AS Oakensoul...
Guess the term META has a different meaning to each player. To me it is definitely different than the term "mainstream" but you do you.
The one thing that keeps coming to my mind when I see calls to nerf or comments in a similar vein is the meme format with the guy shouting "STOP HAVING FUN!" - and to me the whole point of subclassing and scribing seemed exactly to make the game more fun, and for Oakensoul and Beam to make the game fun for more people.
A: "We, as humans, should respect and take care of each other like in a Co-op, not a PvP 🌸"
B: "Many words. Words bad. Won't read. ⚔️"3 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭For Old Trials its been like 2-3 Elites during the Fight if that.
Lucent Citadel:
Pack 1: 2 Elites
Pack 2: 2 Elites
Pack 3: 2 Elites
Pack 4: 3 Elites
Pack 5: 1 Elite
Pack 6: 3 Elites
Pack 7: 1 Elite
Pack 8: 2 Elites
Pack 9: 4 Elites
It's only the last 2 packs we start getting into the chunky numbers
OC/RG - have a similar composition. It's just SE that is the outlier, and even that is more about knowing what mobs to seperate between the tanks and control0 -
tomofhyrule✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The one thing that keeps coming to my mind when I see calls to nerf or comments in a similar vein is the meme format with the guy shouting "STOP HAVING FUN!" - and to me the whole point of subclassing and scribing seemed exactly to make the game more fun, and for Oakensoul and Beam to make the game fun for more people.
The problem is that that "STOP HAVING FUN!" meme is one person judging a group of people for doing something that only affects them. Nobody cares if you decide to mod Skyrim to include a magic transformation ray that turns all of the dragons into pink unicorn ponies that fart rainbows.
The problem is when your "fun" directly affects someone else's fun.
Not everyone likes the "beam go brr" playstyle, but since that's so grossly OP, that means that anyone who wants to play high end without it is now getting pressured to play it anyway or get cut from the team. In essence, they're not saying "Stop having fun!" they're saying "Stop making me play your way because I don't find it fun!"
Put another way, they see you as the "STOP HAVING FUN!" person because you are telling them that they need to use a playstyle they don't see fun because you do.
Balance (which means both nerfing things that are OP and buffing things that are underpowered... which should happen more than it does) means that everyone could have fun with the setup they want, and not just one setup.
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Jotiqua✭✭For Old Trials its been like 2-3 Elites during the Fight if that.
Lucent Citadel:
Pack 1: 2 Elites
Pack 2: 2 Elites
Pack 3: 2 Elites
Pack 4: 3 Elites
Pack 5: 1 Elite
Pack 6: 3 Elites
Pack 7: 1 Elite
Pack 8: 2 Elites
Pack 9: 4 Elites
It's only the last 2 packs we start getting into the chunky numbers
OC/RG - have a similar composition. It's just SE that is the outlier, and even that is more about knowing what mobs to seperate between the tanks and control
But it also spawn small Adds f.e. Gloom Casters and Atros, in HoF f.e. its just Elites, no Miniadds at allEdited by Jotiqua on June 17, 2025 3:34PM0 -
Jotiqua✭✭It will get nerfed, anyone who thought subclassing would end up with different variety have no clue.
Some solo players like to pretend only scorepushing end gamers are the ones following the meta, but fail to recognise oakensoul and heavy attack is also a meta, which is why every single one of them run lighting staff, so is arcanist, be it 1 bar or 2 bar. The vast majority of players do follow a meta in this game.
On xbox only 5.86% of the playerbase have the achievement for getting a character to level 50. Showing an enourmous amount of players just drop the game completely, there are far less solo players then you would think in endgame. The players that stick around to level 50 almost all of them follow a meta, everytime there was an event where some good stuff could drop from a WB or harrowstorm or something like that all you see is lighting staff heavy attack. And now all you will see is lazers and heavy attack.
Maybe we get some variety back when they nerf beam, but they have created a god mode skill for low-mid tier players, if they nerf beam, it will be the scorepusher who swap it out. Since u cant beat the ease of use and aoe capabilites.
It's funny how on one side there are people shouting that Oakensoul is not that good and demonstrating how, in fact, it is not best in slot, while on the other side we have people saying Beam is AS OP, AS META, AS Oakensoul...
Guess the term META has a different meaning to each player. To me it is definitely different than the term "mainstream" but you do you.
The one thing that keeps coming to my mind when I see calls to nerf or comments in a similar vein is the meme format with the guy shouting "STOP HAVING FUN!" - and to me the whole point of subclassing and scribing seemed exactly to make the game more fun, and for Oakensoul and Beam to make the game fun for more people.
I dont want them to stop having fun, not at all, i just want the Fighting Possibilities to be closer to equals rather than having everyone run Lasers because it is, perspectivaly, more Powerful than most other AoE Spammables.3 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭But it also spawn small Adds f.e. Gloom Casters and Atros, in HoF f.e. its just Elites, no Miniadds at all
There are plenty of mini-adds in HoF, as there in all the trials except CR and AS. The issue is the power creep; in earlier trials the mini-adds get wiped out in a couple of seconds to the point they are just background noise.
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Jotiqua✭✭tomofhyrule wrote: »The one thing that keeps coming to my mind when I see calls to nerf or comments in a similar vein is the meme format with the guy shouting "STOP HAVING FUN!" - and to me the whole point of subclassing and scribing seemed exactly to make the game more fun, and for Oakensoul and Beam to make the game fun for more people.
The problem is that that "STOP HAVING FUN!" meme is one person judging a group of people for doing something that only affects them. Nobody cares if you decide to mod Skyrim to include a magic transformation ray that turns all of the dragons into pink unicorn ponies that fart rainbows.
The problem is when your "fun" directly affects someone else's fun.
Not everyone likes the "beam go brr" playstyle, but since that's so grossly OP, that means that anyone who wants to play high end without it is now getting pressured to play it anyway or get cut from the team. In essence, they're not saying "Stop having fun!" they're saying "Stop making me play your way because I don't find it fun!"
Put another way, they see you as the "STOP HAVING FUN!" person because you are telling them that they need to use a playstyle they don't see fun because you do.
Balance (which means both nerfing things that are OP and buffing things that are underpowered... which should happen more than it does) means that everyone could have fun with the setup they want, and not just one setup.
Exactly!0 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭RealLoveBVB wrote: »RealLoveBVB wrote: »Arcanist beam is NOT overpowered, it is just easy to use and build around.
Every class should have it's own channeled AOE to build around, with visuals themed for that specific class.
Hu? If you check any raid log, then beam will always provide almost 50% of your total damage. One.Single.Skill.
Tell me just one skill, that does the same. And we are not talking about 20k dps here.
It makes it easier to play, but that alone does not make it the best. The differential between the pre-U46 classes was marginal - in content.
Tell me another skill that does around 50% of your damage.
Missed the point I see.
One skill doing 50% makes it easier to play it does not mean that the overall damage is higher. The stats from ESOlogs suggest that Arcanist is by no means the highest damage class.
TLDR; 50% of nothing is nothing - as the saying goes.3 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭I usually prefer to filter by dps for DD, not by points. Arc's easily ahead of the others then if you make that one switch on the provided link. Though that's also update 43 for some reason? Not current?
It's the largest dataset prior to U-46.
Higher dps doesn't necssarily mean better - it doesn't reflect if someone was doing mechs or they died. An acranist on the Shard can have the highest dps - but did they ever turn a mirror?
1 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Herald skill line is top because it gives free pen, free cleave, free access to a unique 5% damage done debuff, and easy access to major prophecy/brutality. Combine that with any other skill line in the game and it's a win.
Add in vOC where the adds just hate stacking and the bosses have anti stack mechanics and beam is gonna win unless it's nerfed to the point of not doing any damage at all.
Arcanist is all or nothing. I don't think the class is designed in such a way that it can be balanced properly.4 -
Sarannah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Well, there is only two possibilities here...RealLoveBVB wrote: »RealLoveBVB wrote: »Arcanist beam is NOT overpowered, it is just easy to use and build around.
Every class should have it's own channeled AOE to build around, with visuals themed for that specific class.
Hu? If you check any raid log, then beam will always provide almost 50% of your total damage. One.Single.Skill.
Tell me just one skill, that does the same. And we are not talking about 20k dps here.
It makes it easier to play, but that alone does not make it the best. The differential between the pre-U46 classes was marginal - in content.
Tell me another skill that does around 50% of your damage.
Missed the point I see.
One skill doing 50% makes it easier to play it does not mean that the overall damage is higher. The stats from ESOlogs suggest that Arcanist is by no means the highest damage class.
TLDR; 50% of nothing is nothing - as the saying goes.
1: Beam really is overpowered and players feel like they need to use it over all the 2-bar builds, as it outperforms those builds.
2: Beam is convenience, and players flock to beam because it is easy and convenient to play. Easy to make a build to enhance the one skill. (Players do not want to 2-bar play ESO maybe?)
We don't know which of the two is really going on, ZOS probably knows which it is though.
Personally I think it is '2', convenience and easy to play/build around. Therefor I want all classes to have a channeled AOE fitting that class, similar to how arcanist's beam functions.
PS: Could we please stop calling for nerfs, not everyone follows the meta and any nerf affects everyone. I'd rather see all other classes get their own channeled AOE attack to build around.
PPS: Players asking for beam nerfs also forget to mention the major downside of the arcanist's beam: You can waste crux or your entire damage when you get stunned/stopped/staggered/etc when you begin your channeling and during your channeling. Which lowers your damage big time! Basically to 0 as you have to re-crux yourself.Edited by Sarannah on June 17, 2025 3:57PM5 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Well, there is only two possibilities here...RealLoveBVB wrote: »RealLoveBVB wrote: »Arcanist beam is NOT overpowered, it is just easy to use and build around.
Every class should have it's own channeled AOE to build around, with visuals themed for that specific class.
Hu? If you check any raid log, then beam will always provide almost 50% of your total damage. One.Single.Skill.
Tell me just one skill, that does the same. And we are not talking about 20k dps here.
It makes it easier to play, but that alone does not make it the best. The differential between the pre-U46 classes was marginal - in content.
Tell me another skill that does around 50% of your damage.
Missed the point I see.
One skill doing 50% makes it easier to play it does not mean that the overall damage is higher. The stats from ESOlogs suggest that Arcanist is by no means the highest damage class.
TLDR; 50% of nothing is nothing - as the saying goes.
1: Beam really is overpowered and players feel like they need to use it over all the 2-bar builds, as it outperforms those builds.
2: Beam is convenience, and players flock to beam because it is easy and convenient to play. Easy to make a build to enhance the one skill. (Players do not want to 2-bar play ESO maybe?)
We don't know which of the two is really going on, ZOS probably knows which it is though.
Personally I think it is '2', convenience and easy to play/build around. Therefor I want all classes to have a channeled AOE fitting that class, similar to how arcanist's beam functions.
PS: Could we please stop calling for nerfs, not everyone follows the meta and any nerf affects everyone. I'd rather see all other classes get their own channeled AOE attack to build around.
It's not just beam. There's also the free pen from having herald skills slotted, and the unique 5% damage done buff from both morphs of flail.
Pen is huge. Some groups are dropping alkosh. Makes having herald or gravelord an absolute requirement in organized content IMO.3 -
RealLoveBVB✭✭✭✭✭
✭RealLoveBVB wrote: »RealLoveBVB wrote: »Arcanist beam is NOT overpowered, it is just easy to use and build around.
Every class should have it's own channeled AOE to build around, with visuals themed for that specific class.
Hu? If you check any raid log, then beam will always provide almost 50% of your total damage. One.Single.Skill.
Tell me just one skill, that does the same. And we are not talking about 20k dps here.
It makes it easier to play, but that alone does not make it the best. The differential between the pre-U46 classes was marginal - in content.
Tell me another skill that does around 50% of your damage.
Missed the point I see.
One skill doing 50% makes it easier to play it does not mean that the overall damage is higher. The stats from ESOlogs suggest that Arcanist is by no means the highest damage class.
TLDR; 50% of nothing is nothing - as the saying goes.
I think you missed my point. I was talking about the beam, not the arcanist class as whole.
Also comparing everything with the best players in ESO logs isn't an argument too, as maybe 0,01% of the playerbase can reach those high end numbers.
Just take a average raidgroup as example and you will always see arcanist outparsing everyone with the beam dealing around 50% of their total damage.
As others claimed that beam is not overpowered, I've asked for another skill that does 50% of your total damage.
As there is none, that just proves that beam is infact overpowered.
And that it is easy to play is even worse.4 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭RealLoveBVB wrote: »RealLoveBVB wrote: »RealLoveBVB wrote: »Arcanist beam is NOT overpowered, it is just easy to use and build around.
Every class should have it's own channeled AOE to build around, with visuals themed for that specific class.
Hu? If you check any raid log, then beam will always provide almost 50% of your total damage. One.Single.Skill.
Tell me just one skill, that does the same. And we are not talking about 20k dps here.
It makes it easier to play, but that alone does not make it the best. The differential between the pre-U46 classes was marginal - in content.
Tell me another skill that does around 50% of your damage.
Missed the point I see.
One skill doing 50% makes it easier to play it does not mean that the overall damage is higher. The stats from ESOlogs suggest that Arcanist is by no means the highest damage class.
TLDR; 50% of nothing is nothing - as the saying goes.
I think you missed my point. I was talking about the beam, not the arcanist class as whole.
Also comparing everything with the best players in ESO logs isn't an argument too, as maybe 0,01% of the playerbase can reach those high end numbers.
Just take a average raidgroup as example and you will always see arcanist outparsing everyone with the beam dealing around 50% of their total damage.
As others claimed that beam is not overpowered, I've asked for another skill that does 50% of your total damage.
As there is none, that just proves that beam is infact overpowered.
And that it is easy to play is even worse.
It doesn't prove anything. It's simply the reality of the class. You cannot apply balance while ignoring the whole context - you need the whole context to be able to provide balance.
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Heronisan✭✭✭I usually prefer to filter by dps for DD, not by points. Arc's easily ahead of the others then if you make that one switch on the provided link. Though that's also update 43 for some reason? Not current?
It's the largest dataset prior to U-46.
Higher dps doesn't necssarily mean better - it doesn't reflect if someone was doing mechs or they died. An acranist on the Shard can have the highest dps - but did they ever turn a mirror?
But these new threads is about beam popularity for U46, u are showing parses of the variety we didnt want to loose with this patch. Those psrses where used by many as an argument against subclassing
If a player is skilled enough they can do good dps with other set ups, u are not wrong, but right now herald/assa/aedric is performing so insanely well with much less effort compared to anything else, so the majority of players default to these, and all we see is beams everywhere. This build will perform just as good on dummy as it will in content.
There is a stacked single target build, also herald/assa/aedric parsing roughly 10k more then beam build, but the 10k loss is worth it over the most absurd aoe ability in the game.
There is a breaking point, where something is performing so good it leaves a sour taste in the mouth when u are working very hard on some other build and struggle to keep up with something barely putting in half the effort.
We saw this when oakensoul first released and it was broken beyond imagination, everyone was getting trifectas for free, and even endgamers all switched to heavy attack sorc.
I dont mind beam, but right now herald/assa/aedric gives too much for too little effort compared to everything else. Either other spammables gets buffed or all we will see is lazers, even if there exists single target builds out there that can marginaly outperform it. You said urself earlier, parsing dummy isnt everything, u also have to look at how it performs in content, and beam is more effective than anything else in actual content for almost every single player in this game. The ones who can play around with other builds right now are usualy the best players, since they are good enough to make everything competetive.Edited by Heronisan on June 17, 2025 5:13PM2 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
It'll be slower. And slower kill time = more opportunities to fail.
There are a lot of soft DPS checks throughout the game. Skipping a mechanic by pushing to the next phase can make or break a progression team.1 -
Ph1p✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think it's odd to define "overpowered" in relation to the absolute top of the top. Looking at logs, it seems indeed that Arcanists are in fact not the #1 DPS in many trial rankings. Necros, DKs, and Templars often take that spot. But concluding that Arcs are therefore not overpowered is like allowing the use of a mediocre chess computer in a tournament because "it can't beat Magnus Carlsen".
I'd prefer to compare against how the same person would perform with an alternative setup. For example, Oakensoul builds obviously never beat the best LA setups, but they could double or triple a player's DPS immediately. I think that's where much of the perception of being overpowered came from, even though they were never "meta".
Same with Arcanists. If 95% of all players do significantly better with an Arcanist build after trying it out for a few hours than with their previous main they've played for a year, then I'd call that overpowered.4