Its hard to refer to specific examples on the forums without being suspended due to the naming and shaming rules which makes it really hard to discuss this type of topic.

In general I would agree with you that moderation within Cyrodiil is very lacking and focused in the wrong areas.
Personally i'd like to see an improvement in this area as it would encourage newer players to take part if they knew that they were less likely to be trolled and harassed which is unfortunately an off-putting factor in PVP for some.
It has also degraded the community (streamers and players quit due to it) to the point where the players who I can imagine you are referencing are a larger proportion of the ever dwindling player base which is why it feels more common place.

That being said, I also think that player behaviour of playing multiple characters is not an offense against TOS (only actively playing them at the same time using multiboxing keyboard/mouse control). Using these alt characters to boost or collude with enemy faction is also against TOS but very rarely upheld as support seems to not really understand the issue.

Good luck with your endeavour.

Theignson wrote: »

I’m not sure which issues are being referred to here. Would be good to explain exactly what is happening.

However I know on PCNA a well known AD player frequently has his alt logged onto EP. Then when the hammer spawns the alt grabs it, takes it directly to AD. Then this player’s main takes the hammer.

Adding insult to injury, this occurs later at night when AD already has a two bar advantage in population.

I have seen this probably 10 times.

Is this the sort of thing this post is referring to?

AS I said I can't post the specific clips made by myself or other AD players have made over the years displaying such behavior. I also can't post the names of the toxic ruffians who've been habitually engaging in such scrubbery for almost a year now.

However the scenario you've described is one of the examples of such behavior. Especially if the troll is begging for attention in zone chat as he does it. In fact I bet I could give you a list of @ names and you'd recognize at least a few such people who engage in such atrocious and petty antics.

My apologies if the next bit is a bit long winded. Alas I have to be careful in how I present all of this.

AS for another example of what I am talking about let's imagine a scenario that has been an ongoing issue for over a year now. But which has become sickeningly common ever since the Vengeance campaign sent certain 'skilled' players into an ongoing hissy fit.

Team A is in first place, has all the scrolls, has emp, and has max pop with massive herds of pvdoor players rushing to one fight at a time.

Team C is in third place, is missing its scrolls, and is struggling to put even 10 people into one place on the map. Often only a third of those players will have their own siege and or be in any ways experienced with PVP.

Team B is slowly going into third place. It is also missing its scrolls but has a number of people who claim to be 'super skilled' compared to those they deride as 'zergling trash'.

SO, what do the 'skilled' players of team B do? Why, they go and jump all the people on team C as they try to break out from the gate camping and retake their home scroll keeps.

This of course keeps Team C from making any head way against team A. It also insures that insures that team B has that many fewer people pushing for their own scrolls and or to fight back against Team A. Meaning both C and B are put in an even harder position against whomever is now gate camping a dead map.

Should Team A and the 'skilled' people of B cross paths you'll see one of two things happen. The first is they'll run away from Team A and refuse to engage them anywhere. Not even when it'd help team B. They'll even go out of their way to avoid engaging team A's emperor or any large PVdoor herds. Alternatively they openly stand there with them as they help defend anything Team C is trying to take from team A. Effectively adding more people to the already pop locked Team A.

And that's just to get to the scroll keeps so you can now close gates leading to empty scroll temples.

A variant of this I've run into more and more recently is those 'skilled' players from Team B showing up to defend Team A's keeps and then leaving as soon as they wiped team C. Not even making an attempt to take it for their own team or even recover their own team's scrolls. Instead they immediately rush off to find another area to go after team C. Which they again do while openly avoiding anything that'd assist their own team (Team in making headway.

All of which of course insures a certain group of people get to look good on streams while effectively insuring team B is sabotaged, and team C gets shoved further and further behind. All while Team A has its points artificially inflated by these toxic individuals.

Lately I've been getting hunted by people like that. With any zone calls I make being relayed to them and these 'skilled' individuals crossing the entire map to wipe my small PUG group. They then leave or otherwise hand the objectives back to the very team (A) that is presently beating their own side (B) into submission.

Heck there was even a streamer who got a little ban due to the harassment tactics he and his 'friends' employed to try and shame and belittle me into rage quitting. Sadly though the ban was not a permanent one and they are now back in cyrodiil.

Oh, and needless to say none of these people are willing to explain their behavior in any cogent manner. Usually they block whispers. Mostly they just respond with infantile gaslighting and the unimaginative mewlings of some nameless, troll.

Yes I have tried being polite with my queries. No it did not help. At best it got one or two to admit they were doing it for stalkerish reasons and or because they only want to go after 'easy kills'.

Can you post screenshots with player names blanked out?

Without a visual the forums can't do much. Seconding that you keep submitting tickets.

Telel wrote: »

Screenshots sadly lack the context really needed here. The usual gaslighting trolls will just claim they're not showing 'what really happened'.

Unlike a clip that shows an EP and DC player both ulti dumping one AD at the same time only to then separate and go after another AD. Or several clips showing the same players doing similar things month after month.

And yes we keep reporting them. But so far ZOS has only 'taken appropriate action' when they engage in more brazen actions. Such as teabagging after they use EP toons to defend a blue keep.

Unfortunately this type of gameplay is considered fair by ZOS and isn't against TOS, players dont 'have' to fight eachother. What would be against TOS is players of 1 faction building a tick specifically for another faction players benefit etc as that is boosting.

Telel wrote: »

Unlike a clip that shows an EP and DC player both ulti dumping one AD at the same time only to then separate and go after another AD. Or several clips showing the same players doing similar things month after month.

Yah that's not against terms of service, like at all.

Telel wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

Unlike a clip that shows an EP and DC player both ulti dumping one AD at the same time only to then separate and go after another AD. Or several clips showing the same players doing similar things month after month.

Yah that's not against terms of service, like at all.

Exploiting game mechanics, harassment, stalking, etc are all against the TOS.

One of the game's largest mass bans occured over 'skilled and organized' players coordinating O ticks on all three teams in order to artificially inflate their AP gain. That was done back when resources and outposts were worth like 3k a piece.

Sadly the old forums posts and ZOS's official statement on that mass banning have gone the way of PVP game balance.

So yeah, using your buddies to bypass population limits, artificially inflating scores, preventing even a hint of competitiveness , etc is in fact a big no no. Or it's supposed to be. Certainly ZOS hasn't said it's changed its stance on points boosting and similar acts of the desperate and greedy.

Then there is the fact some of these, entities, do it because they are salty stalker type whom want to upset someone or a groups of someone. This is just an additional reason this needs to be addressed.

Except everything you just said is completely different to the comment I replied to.

In the comment I replied to, you gave an example of two players from different factions killing someone from the third faction then continuing on their merry way.

That's not against terms of service, and has never been against terms of service.

To be honest - I think they have bigger issues they are actively focusing on besides this. None of this matters when PvP is in it's current state. Once they figure out the whole vengeance test/solution I see them shifting focus to items like this.

In short, don't expect anything until PvP performance is fixed.

There's alot of work that needs to be done. For one, we need to stop asking people to leave the server alright. Can we do that please? They're a solo player; they're not using the 'right' Vigors morph; you stole my ballista when I'm already using 4 or 5? seriously how??

Telling folks on AD that the faction doesn't need solo players and if you don't use the morphs or build (that I like) then you need to just stop, leave AD and go to DC/EP. Well ok but it seems like more than a couple folks have taken that advice, no? They left but they also supposed to be grateful to the faction who singled them out?!?? The wrong scroll runner grabs scroll; The wrong person grabs ham after your guild 'friend' lost it twice already; So, then xyz Guild Leader gets in zone and tells everyone to just abandon them... And everyone just does as they're told. 1 or 2 protest but the rest fold. So then, keep folding. I mean seriously, how does AD expect things to be different when this is what they're handing out to people? How do you expect people to fight for you when its like this? I'm not saying what others have done is right but until something changes no one's going to care about something ZOS can't fix themselves. In short, you can't hold us in contempt and then expect us to turn around and being all caring and empathetic towards someone else's problems. C'mon man.

Another thing, I don't know if I'll have time this week, but last Vengeance campaign was great and really was a nice boost to confidence seeing how many solo players were able to finally demonstrate our skill and show our worth. Its something that never happens because of all the grief bombers and smug ball-groupers not to mention guild leaders who disagree with everyone about practically everything. No one can disagree with them... ever. So that was good to see. Sometimes when you want to change the world, the change needs to start with you. Throwing it at ZOS won't work. But at same time, yeah, I've had people stalking me also in PvP and opening a dialogue has helped with a couple of them. Not all though. ZOS can't fix that either, like I said... Cyrodiil has changed and many of you out there I would encourage to adapt and change how you approach things. There are other things you can do in game, there are other options and who's to say one of those isn't better until you give it a chance... but how many chances do you give someone else until you start giving yourself a chance?

Cause for better or worse we ain't goin' back. I think subclassing would prevent that from happening anyways. Best of luck.

Telel wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

There's alot of work that needs to be done. For one, we need to stop asking people to leave the server alright. Can we do that please? They're a solo player; they're not using the 'right' Vigors morph; you stole my ballista when I'm already using 4 or 5? seriously how??

Telling folks on AD that the faction doesn't need solo players and if you don't use the morphs or build (that I like) then you need to just stop, leave AD and go to DC/EP. Well ok but it seems like more than a couple folks have taken that advice, no? They left but they also supposed to be grateful to the faction who singled them out?!?? The wrong scroll runner grabs scroll; The wrong person grabs ham after your guild 'friend' lost it twice already; So, then xyz Guild Leader gets in zone and tells everyone to just abandon them... And everyone just does as they're told. 1 or 2 protest but the rest fold. So then, keep folding. I mean seriously, how does AD expect things to be different when this is what they're handing out to people? How do you expect people to fight for you when its like this? I'm not saying what others have done is right but until something changes no one's going to care about something ZOS can't fix themselves. In short, you can't hold us in contempt and then expect us to turn around and being all caring and empathetic towards someone else's problems. C'mon man.

Another thing, I don't know if I'll have time this week, but last Vengeance campaign was great and really was a nice boost to confidence seeing how many solo players were able to finally demonstrate our skill and show our worth. Its something that never happens because of all the grief bombers and smug ball-groupers not to mention guild leaders who disagree with everyone about practically everything. No one can disagree with them... ever. So that was good to see. Sometimes when you want to change the world, the change needs to start with you. Throwing it at ZOS won't work. But at same time, yeah, I've had people stalking me also in PvP and opening a dialogue has helped with a couple of them. Not all though. ZOS can't fix that either, like I said... Cyrodiil has changed and many of you out there I would encourage to adapt and change how you approach things. There are other things you can do in game, there are other options and who's to say one of those isn't better until you give it a chance... but how many chances do you give someone else until you start giving yourself a chance?

Cause for better or worse we ain't goin' back. I think subclassing would prevent that from happening anyways. Best of luck.

Man. You must have had some bad experiences with people on other DC and or EP. I don't think I've ever seen any long term AD players seriously suggest any of that. At least not to team mates who want to be there and work with others. Recently however some people who came over from EP have been saying stuff like that. There's also definitely been some trolls who keep coming over from DC on gray host who have a history of such petulance.

Only they never lead groups and definitely aren't in charge of any guilds I can recall hearing of. I'm also pretty sure they don't read these forums. Or if they did they'd operate in a way that they think is sneaky, smart, and hurtful. All so they can continue to obsess over someone they must think very very highly of...

My advise? Do your best to avoid direct engagement with the faction flippers, and needy trolls who've been telling others to quit , to disband their groups, to just sit in spawn and wait to be carried by a zerg. Especially when those same toxic elements then turn around and throw shade at the handful of people in this game still willing to lead a PUG.

After all Such entities will be gone in a month or two back to the other teams. All so they can be replaced by a 'new' name that acts just like the old one did.

They definitely aren't going to do anything to help anyone on AD. Not when the matter of self gratification through petulance, and infantile harassment is a vital part of their 'existence'.

But remember that when they keep up their stalker like antics it's best to just start jumping through the reporting hoops ZOS demands we work through. It can take a bit but eventually these angry needy types will escalate to the point where ZOS no longer ignores their deviancy.

Then that'll be at least one less tick on the cow's hide. At least until the ban expires or they can get a new account.

Certainly if more people did that there'd be one or two fewer of them in zone chat all the time. Which would have the trickle down effect of getting more actual PVPers through the queue and into some good fights.

But make sure not to engage trolls and stalkers to directly. After all they feed on the attention of those they've made an important part of their lives. They're also likely trying to bait you into reacting in a way they can use as an excuse to have their herd of 'friends' report you over.

Oh, and remember to laugh. Trolls, cheaters, revenuers, etc all hate it when you enjoy yourself despite all the effort they put into being the digital equivalent of lice.

Also maybe consider leading some PUGs of your own some time. Certainly having more leaders getting people out of spawn, squared away for cyrodiil, and pushing the map can't be a bad thing. It'd certainly make it harder for the bad actors to do what they want to do.

Heck if every faction had more people willing to lead such groups we'd probably have a way more dynamic map. Which might then help alleviate the issue of certain bad actors engaging in their petty shenanigans.

=.T.=

T,

Thank you for your reply, I appreciate your thoughts on this matter as you undeniably have enough experience to bring something meaningful to the table for such a discussion. That said, I sincerely wish, others had been as thoughtful. However, we can't always count on that and so here we are trying to fill gaps that others have left for us. Like an inverse trail of breadcrumbs. Anyways, with that said on this end, I've been considerably busy with many things. It's given me time to reach much the same conclusion that such toxicity, regardless of our opinion of its source, and regardless of source, it really is a harmful thing in and of itself.

imperium mortuum est; vivat imperium!

I read alot of the posts in this thread and can say i have experienced much of this myself.

waiting in a long que to find 10 or so players standing in the gate spawn dancing?

how would you solve this problem when selling more copies of the game is beneficial?

Vengance campaign is what these types of players did NOT want.

Making vengance campaign more "restricted" rewarded a larger amount of player styles.

The Cyrodill/Imperial city (non event) population is staggering evidence for what the players want.

no one can stack 12 "vigors" in vengance and that needs to stay that way.

thanks for reading

I made a thread about the boosting in January and never got a response. I even cancelled ESO Plus for a while, but I came slinking back.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/671987/could-zos-please-make-their-position-on-boosting-for-cyrodill-emperor-unambiguous/p1

It's depressing that they went to all this trouble of making a tri-faction campaign, of creating buffs like Emperor, Volendrung, etc, and then they just let them all become kinda meaningless. There's no competition to get emperor - someone will boost past you on an alt very often without suffering consequences. They make amounts of AP in hours that are functionally impossible to make without exploiting boosting, and they do it on maps that are basically stagnant, and they suffer no consequences. People can be ignorant about how to efficiently farm AP (eg, you can stack d-ticks from outposts, keeps, towns, rss seperately, etc), but these players are not just making AP efficiently, they are making hundreds of thousands of AP at lightning speed compared to any legitimate player. They then tend, if they are an habitual offender, to harass and hound players trying to achieve emp by legit means - always careful not to fall foul of getting easily reported, but behaving nevertheless in a way that amounts to harassment and trolling. And reports consistently come back that they haven't breached TOS anyway.

Enough people still manage to achieve emp legitimately, and I think this kind of behaviour is less common in GH due to faction lock, but even there it's not *absent*.

It feels like griefing, the way the most malicious boosters do it. Boosting is clearly intended to harass players trying to get emp for their first time in a lot of cases. In BR certain players maintain emp on an alt by boosting *solely* to deny the opposing faction ever having an active emperor.

I'm still at a loss why ZOS doesn't provide some clarity here.

EDIT: Also, the trolls are smarter about the reporting rules than naive legitimate players. One of my guildies made some very temperate comments in zone chat about ignoring a troll who was turning AD siege backwards in GH the other day, and that guildie received a 72 hour suspension for "call outs" and "griefing"!! It's hardly the first time I've seen trolls make successful malicious reports while legitimate players reports come back "no breach of TOS" - that feels almost like the norm - and that is what's frustrating about the situation!

MincMincMinc wrote: »

I just dont get it, what gain is there? Its a 10 year old gamemode that hasnt seen change or new rewards in a decade. There is nothing to win at or farm anymore.....

Chances are its more like people are bored and just hanging out with friends.

If people are farming AP for emp, that is how zos designed the system. Not that emp has much use. The boost to max stats hardly compares to fighting a ball group where their set bonuses are worth 10x a normal 5piece.

Ap is pointless as there is nothing to spend it on. Most pvpers have a seemingly infinite supply now.

Not much Clout to gain as everyone knows the leaderboard is pointless since it isnt based on actual skill by any means. It is only a measure of who plays the most in a stale gamemode.

The factions and campaign locks only server the purpose to drive crownstore alliance swaps and prevent people from playing the game for a month. Anyone who wants to spy can just log in an alt account for 2$. Basically crippling the normal playerbase while making a pavement crack to step over for the nonexistant cheaters

I agree with all you said, but the point is obvious.

The point is bullying newer players who have the audacity to try to get emp achievements without already knowing exactly how busted and meaningless the PVP system really is. There's always plenty of new people wanting emp, and there's a nasty element who find it incredibly funny to game the system to deny them access.

In the case of BR, the point is also to skew a campaign by making it so only a single faction can ever have an active emperor by boosting into emp on the competing faction but never actually playing that toon seriously.