Sorcerer is certainly overloaded and makes less trade-offs when it comes to damage, surviving, and sustain. Their kit has it all. Remember when DK had a soft counter via wings? It doesn't really make sense that Sorcerera get the variety of tools that they get, but Wings was somehow to oppressive.

There is also something to be said for the commonly abused sets that players find themselves shoehorned into using; Balorgh, Accuity, and Agony/Convergence end up as the only way that players can turn the tables on tanky enemies. At the same time, the benefits of those sets also create cheesy gameplay for everyone.

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

OP didn't mention Werewolf. Easily worse than necro.

This ^

Joy_Division wrote: »

TDVM wrote: »

Plar - which looks like normal, but when you start to play you find out that it has only one button, and it's Radiant Destruction, all the damage in a single skillet, are you kidding?

2. Javelin first, then Beam..

Isn't it meteor, Javelin then beam? I ran stamplar and dont use javelin or meteor, so not sure, but I get hit with that combo at least once per bg with a plar in it in one way or another.

Ah the MMO PVP struggle bus, balance is nearly impossible without the trade off of killing PVE it seems. Part of the reason I don't bother with MMO PVP much anymore. That and I don't enjoy tree chase simulator 3000 or tower power VI.

I always thought if you were trying to balance classes you'd want to give each class a specific vulnerability and strength that were completely different from all the other classes. This would probably require a much more sophisticated skills / combat / damage system to be workable though, and really pushes in the opposite direction from subclassing.

Zos is just lazy and doesn’t play their own game so they don’t know how to balance it.

The class kits are completely unbalanced and half the classes are missing vital buffs and debuffs that everyone is required to use or have them on weird skills that no one actually uses or don’t actually make sense.

Most classes still rely on weapon or vamp spamables bcs they don’t have usable class spamables

Most classes also missing a real form of delayed burst or true any form of true pressure outside of sets or skills from other lines

If they wanted to fix balance, they would have to actually design real class kits and balance each skill line against each other and make sure each has a valid reason to be used/ played.

It’s long long overdue but I doubt zos will ever do it and even if they do it won’t be with community input and it will most likely be rushed and shortsighted like most other changes.

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

Most classes still rely on weapon or vamp spamables bcs they don’t have usable class spamables

If I'm carrying a weapon, it should be used. I never understood the desire for class spammables. You carry axes.. but wanna shoot birds at people?

Fiennes wrote: »

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

Zos is just lazy and doesn’t play their own game so they don’t know how to balance it..

Whether or not the rest of your points are fair, I really dislike this kind of accusation, because it is baseless and childish.

I agree, there should be some sort of forum ban or warning for this kind of rudeness. It's uncalled for.

PvP (or more precisely AvA) is balanced around group-play not 1 v 1.

Fiennes wrote: »

Navaac223 wrote: »

Baseless.. Baseless ?!
Have you seen the battlegrounds livestream ? Or any patch notes since u35 ?

(Ok, the bg vod was deleted so you can't be blamed for not knowing about it)

I did indeed miss that; what did I miss?

Them playing the game to a standard that was apparently not acceptable to people who live in ESO.

Sounds more like a matter of really learning how to play classes correctly with proper builds.
Do that and most of the classes can kick butt in PvP.
So, if you are just spamming beam on a templar for example, that is not the way.

Fiennes wrote: »

Navaac223 wrote: »

Baseless.. Baseless ?!
Have you seen the battlegrounds livestream ? Or any patch notes since u35 ?

(Ok, the bg vod was deleted so you can't be blamed for not knowing about it)

I did indeed miss that; what did I miss?

they live stream about new 4v4 bg event,and look like me first day join eso...(I don't know how drink potion and break free...

Urzigurumash wrote: »

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

Most classes still rely on weapon or vamp spamables bcs they don’t have usable class spamables

If I'm carrying a weapon, it should be used. I never understood the desire for class spammables. You carry axes.. but wanna shoot birds at people?

On one hand I get this but if that were to be the case then why have classes at all? That’s basically what New World did, rather than a class your build was based around your weapon, so your skill trees fed off of that. If ESO focused more on active or primary weapon then the class aspect becomes less of a factor. As is we already have too many dual wields because that weapon line provides far more bang for the buck than most.

In this case class abilities define the class and provide the character diversity, which I agree with, the problem with ESO is the way the Devs have seemingly executed it.

IMO an RPG needs a continuous broad view, not tunnel vision. Whenever a new skill or tweak or set is to be introduced its key to ask 1) how will this fit into the whole landscape of gameplay & 2) what’s the point. .. When one can answer both of those questions they can get closer to balanced gameplay … but in this case, it doesn’t look that way.

Sets are big issue in PvP, abused and available in OP ways to a few and not all set structures have proper counters in the game, leaving a number of builds out in the proverbial cold. Class abilities are also head scratching. Sure, two classes can have CC abilities but when one can CC from range while another heavily relies on an opponent to step-in-bad then one cannot truly say those classes are balanced can they? They may both have CC but when you don’t account for how those abilities execute you leave holes,

There’s a lot of that here and I’m not opposed to class spammables; it supports personalities among the different classes but the idea of any spammable requires a proper risk vs reward aspect that many of us just don’t see. There’s too many opportunities for builds to reduce the risk while greatly increasing the reward factor that isn’t consistent across the game. Here’s some examples of what I mean about a lack of risk vs reward:

Damage mitigation: stacking mitigation sources in a way whereby the diminishing returns doesn’t properly offset the amount of passive mitigation a player has. Pair that with high resistances and you’ve got a problem. This is how you end up with players that are excessively tanky and able to deal damage.

Self Heals: another inconsistency. Too many instances of players not being able to get their health below the execute trigger because of sets and or active heals that even with BS are so strong players go right to full health. Watching a player run behind a line of sight break with around 20% health, all while seeing that your execute didn’t have an effect because a set or passive mitigated the damage; only for them to heal back to full in one burst is bonkers. Players can have self heals and they can be fairly strong, but not so strong that they can pair any methods to full health from at or near execute in a single burst. Two or more is fine but not one.

Set Procs: while this is generally a moot point since all players can (for the most part) use all sets, we all know that some favor certain classes & builds more than others. We all know what I’m talking about (cue eyeroll), Rush of Agony & Vicious Death just to name a couple. No set should be able to proc for over 25k damage on a player with high resistances AND battle spirit active; that’s just going past ridiculous. There’s ways of dealing with zergs that are NOT this. Some of these gear sets create the very thing we’re asking to avoid: Zaan, RoA, Vicious Death, plaguebreak, etc. .. basically sets shouldn’t take the strategy element out of combat by giving the player an easy crutch. Supporting a build is fine, dealing damage or providing extra restance is fine; it’s the excessive that’s a problem.

Stacking CC: this one is gong to irritate a lot of people but any CC should apply standard immunity to ALL CC. Why? The nature of CC is very inconsistent across the classes and further not everyone is an all stam build. While I 100% agree with resource management you have skills out there which can drain resources, some of which are stackable; besides poisons; and then to stack CC basically enables a player to kill the aspect of resource management because unless one is a stam based build you’re going to have a hard time. To stun, attack, immobilize, attack, fear, attack doesn’t constitute any “real” combat strategy as far as most people would be concerned. And when we consider, again, that not all CC are applied in the same way it’s FAR easier for some classes to stack CC on opponents than others. This also would help to prevent the spam Zergs by disallowing a ball group to just spam different CC on players and mele them into dust. If one applies CC successfully, good; but their opponent is going to have immunity to all CC for the standard duration which means they would have to strategically use their CC in combat.

PvP in ESO has more cheese than Kraft Deluxe and one can call games “crazy” or “quirky” in an attempt to make them sound fun but what it really becomes is clumsy.