Group size-based penalties

OnGodiDoDis · April 19

One solo bomber is capable of wiping out everyone standing on a flag. So why empower them in groups?

I've been long suggesting of the implementation of ramping debuffs to people who partake in large group activities. Not only do they get more healing and damage, they have the advantage of communication. That by itself is powerful. Timing is critical for bursting down targets. So tell me, how are we supposed to survive 12 ultimates if it takes one person to kill everyone on a flag? "Well, don't stack on flags", some may say. How else should we capture keeps, if not by flipping the flags as intended?

Groups are divided by size, ranging from small to large once there are more than four people. The solution is so simple, so trivial that it astonishes me that it hasn't been implemented yet. Large groups need to have ramping damage and healing reduction per member. Each member, starting at member 5, should decrease the healing and damage done to all while increasing the damage taken and reducing healing taken to ALL group members. This is not intended to stop large groups from existing, but it will make them easier to manage by solo crowds. Something like 3% penalty per member starting at member 5, leaving small groups untouched, for a total of 24% debuff to healing and damage done AND healing and damage received. Large groups dominate. They always will, but give us a fighting chance against them. Use this group size mechanic to make changes. It is the only way to hurt them without hurting solo players and small groups. We need to be able to kill them just as they kill us with such ease. Something can also be done about pull sets by introducing a group cooldown for all users of the same pull set, but that is a discussion for another time.

I just wanted to add that if we implement the group cooldown for pull sets, it would completely fix the double pull issue with rush of agony. Some people are lucky enough to get out of the first wave of ulti dumps but end up getting pulled back into the second wave and die.

Oblivion_Protocol · June 7

There’s one problem with your workaround. Groups can still operate as individuals and communicate via Discord. To be a ball group, you just need to follow the leader’s instructions, pop ult when you’re told to, target who you’re told to, and stay in a tight-knit formation for your healers - none of which requires being in an in-game group.

Also, I hate to break it to you, but in this meta, 3-4 man small scale groups can do as much damage as a 12-man ball group.

Artim_X · June 8

ZOS just needs to figure out how to address heal stacking without killing healers or make vengeance the only form of Cyrodiil (which would be a bore).

Oblivion_Protocol · June 8

Artim_X wrote: »

ZOS just needs to figure out how to address heal stacking without killing healers or make vengeance the only form of Cyrodiil (which would be a bore).

The easiest solution would be to reclassify Echoing Vigor and Radiating Regeneration as buffs similar to Major Brutality, Minor Resolve, etc. You can only have one instance of them applied to your character, and any future casts will just refresh the duration, even if it’s from a different source. Heal stacking problem solved.

Joy_Division · June 9

We get it. Organized groups are too powerful.

The solution is not punish people who want to do a perfectly normal MMO experience and play in a group. Rather, it's to finally address after a decade the numerous exploitable/broken/dumb mechanics that enable groups to be too powerful in the first place.

Major_Mangle · June 9

Joy_Division wrote: »

We get it. Organized groups are too powerful.

The solution is not punish people who want to do a perfectly normal MMO experience and play in a group. Rather, it's to finally address after a decade the numerous exploitable/broken/dumb mechanics that enable groups to be too powerful in the first place.

While I do agree that organized group play is way too strong on the upper end, it wouldn´t be too much of an issue if ZOS also allowed the other end of the "extremes" aka tool that allowed you to counter this particular playstyle to exist (like Azureblight before ZOS decided the set didn´t need to exist in any shape of form). If you gonna allow one end of the spectrum to exist the other should be as present as well.

OnGodiDoDis · June 10

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

There’s one problem with your workaround. Groups can still operate as individuals and communicate via Discord. To be a ball group, you just need to follow the leader’s instructions, pop ult when you’re told to, target who you’re told to, and stay in a tight-knit formation for your healers - none of which requires being in an in-game group.

Also, I hate to break it to you, but in this meta, 3-4 man small scale groups can do as much damage as a 12-man ball group.

I am very aware that reducing group size will not increase our chances of survival. One person does enough damage to kill a group. My intent with this post is to suggest that people in large groups should not be able to use pull sets. While it is possible to "group" via discord while not being grouped in game, no one does it because coordinating attacks is not the same. Also, the more people in the group the less damage the individual members do (if this change is implemented), which would prevent any one member from wiping a group of people unless a large portion of the group is involved in the bomb. A great auxiliary solution would be to keep buffs and heals in the group while grouped and prevent outside buffs and heals from affecting the group, effectively isolating its members from non-grouped people. Large groups should not benefit from outside heals, they have more than enough.

RaidingTraiding · June 24

Heal stacking isn't the only issue here. not sure why everyone is so fixated on that issue alone. Shield stacking is a major problem that has become increasingly worse, maybe even more so than healing. arcanists, scribing, certain shield sets, and ult gen sets (for more frequent barriers) have enabled groups to have perma 40k shields on while also having 40k hp, so it is very common that you won't even get to touch their health bars, let alone do enough damage to even think about killing them. also doesn't help when max stats no longer affect your damage or healing so its just easier now to fully stack into hp. aoe burst dsmage is also way down so now its even tougher to kill groups. ball groups now can't even kill each other, their highlight clips consist of getting 1 to 3 kills on other groups, before it was very common to full wipe another group in a single ult push. so if ball groups can't even kill each other, how can anyone else stand a chance against a fully comped group, taking full advantage of the busted shield and healing mechanics?