PVE etiquette

ESO_player123 · June 4

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Thysbe wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

The answer is simple. Tagged mobs. I can see bosses or world bosses no needing to be tagged, but small packs should be. It keeps griefing from happening the way it does in ESO.

Tagged mobs are atrocious and only make players fight each other for the kill. Sharing XP and loot was one of the main improvements for me when switching from WoW to ESO.

I remember quite well standing around a rare mob or quest mob with 15 other players and only the ones tagging it the fastest would be able to proceed with the quest or get loot

I don't disagree, but correct me if I am wrong. In ESO you still do not get credit even if you attacked initially if the other player who comes along does most of the damage.

Just as of a couple hours ago, I was not getting any XP in a dungeon for mobs that I had tagged, that someone else nuked fast.

If what I have witnessed is true and ESO still has a form of "tagging" based on DPS, then I'd definitely prefer the wow system were at least I get something if I tag the mob.

That was not my experience. You might not get the loot from the bosses if you are not in the top 12(?) players, but you definitely get credit for killing. Examples: dailies count even if you did not get the loot from the boss. Endeavors progress even if you just tapped a mob. You can notice this during events at dolmens when it's enough just to tap a mob and see the XP pop-up.

Pixiepumpkin · June 4

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Thysbe wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

The answer is simple. Tagged mobs. I can see bosses or world bosses no needing to be tagged, but small packs should be. It keeps griefing from happening the way it does in ESO.

Tagged mobs are atrocious and only make players fight each other for the kill. Sharing XP and loot was one of the main improvements for me when switching from WoW to ESO.

I remember quite well standing around a rare mob or quest mob with 15 other players and only the ones tagging it the fastest would be able to proceed with the quest or get loot

I don't disagree, but correct me if I am wrong. In ESO you still do not get credit even if you attacked initially if the other player who comes along does most of the damage.

Just as of a couple hours ago, I was not getting any XP in a dungeon for mobs that I had tagged, that someone else nuked fast.

If what I have witnessed is true and ESO still has a form of "tagging" based on DPS, then I'd definitely prefer the wow system were at least I get something if I tag the mob.

That was not my experience. You might not get the loot from the bosses if you are not in the top 12(?) players, but you definitely get credit for killing. Examples: dailies count even if you did not get the loot from the boss. Endeavors progress even if you just tapped a mob. You can notice this during events at dolmens when it's enough just to tap a mob and see the XP pop-up.

I tagged mobs today that another player came along and 1 shot and I got no XP credit.

ESO_player123 · June 4

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Thysbe wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

The answer is simple. Tagged mobs. I can see bosses or world bosses no needing to be tagged, but small packs should be. It keeps griefing from happening the way it does in ESO.

Tagged mobs are atrocious and only make players fight each other for the kill. Sharing XP and loot was one of the main improvements for me when switching from WoW to ESO.

I remember quite well standing around a rare mob or quest mob with 15 other players and only the ones tagging it the fastest would be able to proceed with the quest or get loot

I don't disagree, but correct me if I am wrong. In ESO you still do not get credit even if you attacked initially if the other player who comes along does most of the damage.

Just as of a couple hours ago, I was not getting any XP in a dungeon for mobs that I had tagged, that someone else nuked fast.

If what I have witnessed is true and ESO still has a form of "tagging" based on DPS, then I'd definitely prefer the wow system were at least I get something if I tag the mob.

That was not my experience. You might not get the loot from the bosses if you are not in the top 12(?) players, but you definitely get credit for killing. Examples: dailies count even if you did not get the loot from the boss. Endeavors progress even if you just tapped a mob. You can notice this during events at dolmens when it's enough just to tap a mob and see the XP pop-up.

I tagged mobs today that another player came along and 1 shot and I got no XP credit.

What did you tag them with? Also, is it possible that your tag was processed by the game after the mob was killed (as in the other player's one shot was registered first)?

Out of curiosity, where was this and what kind of mob a re we talking about?

Edit:
I have another question: did you see the damage numbers float over the mob when you "tagged" ( did you actually hit the mob)?

Vulkunne · June 4

Yeah, I bet this is going to be a real problem for a while. Best of luck and all. Sometimes it's better to wander off the paved road and find your own way.

ESO Is a big game and there's more opportunity out there than one might realize. But no, its not for everyone.

Artim_X · June 4

Soarora · June 4

People probably trying to get to skyshards since subclassing takes 2 skillpoints in place of 1. There’s better places to test builds. As others have said, kill stealing is not a thing for everything is shared. If you want to test yourself, wait till the crowds die down or go solo some worldboss that people rarely fight.

As for dolmens, I’ve been told the extra adds don’t give any extra EXP. The EXP boost is really when you end the dolmen and the faster the dolmens ends, the sooner the next one gets to show up. If you want to solo grind exp, doing the dolmens very slowly isn’t the best option. Skyreach (need 1 person in the group to reset instance, another player can help you get a group of just yourself) or spellscar are better options. Can probably do solo nbrp too.

SeaGtGruff · June 4

There are a few things that bug me about some behavior, such as--

- Players who fire off an ability in towns or inside buildings in order to make you draw your weapons. Most of the time I don't care about that, but it bugs me when they do it while I'm trying to recall to a house or wayshrine, presumably because they're trying to troll me by deliberately interrupting the recall process. It's no big deal to restart the recall procedure, but it's just the idea that either they're too thoughtless to know or care what they're doing, or perhaps that they do know what they're doing.

- Players who see you fighting a mob or enemy, so they fire off a single attack at it as they ride or run by. I know it's an MMO and I expect other players to want to join in when they see a fight, but scoring a single hit on the enemy and continuing on their way without stopping to actually join in the fight is just blatant "leeching" or whatever it's called. I know it doesn't affect how much XP I'll get for the fight-- at least, I don't think it does-- but it just seems rude, sort of like someone walking past your table at an outdoor street cafe, grabbing a few french fries off of your plate, and then continuing on their way without so much as a hello or thank you.

- Players who melt through a boss with over-powered skills, such that almost no one else has an opportunity to even hit the boss. If I'm fighting a boss and someone comes up near the end of the fight, I stop hitting the boss and just brace against its attacks so the other player can make the kill, or if I've got my Sword-and-Board skills slotted on my back bar then I'll swap bars and taunt the boss.

allochthons · June 4

As others have said, what is polite and rude varies greatly on multiple factors. Chatting with a store cashier is a crucial politeness in some areas, acknowledging them and being friendly. But it's considered extremely rude in others, because you're wasting the time of the cashier and the people in line behind you.

If I'm alone at a dolmen, I may close the pinions ASAP if I'm on a fighter's guild quest, or I may draw it out if I'm getting XP. But if I come up on a dolmen that was started by someone else, I do what they're doing. If someone comes up on my solo dolmen and does differently than I do, so be it.

If I'm at a delve or public dungeon boss, and there are multiple people, I'll get in a few light attacks and wait for others to get a hit in before taking down the boss. Unless I need a lead from loot, in which case I'll kill it ASAP if there is a crowd. That 12 person loot limit is such a bad design decision.

But if I run up to a public dungeon boss or a delve boss and there's someone already fighting it, why would I wait for them to kill it? The loot and the XP is the same either way.

If I'm waiting at a boss to re-spawn for a lead, I'll always make sure anyone nearby doing the same is aware the boss is up before I kill it. But only for a few seconds. If they've gone AFK I'm not waiting. It's not hard to set a timer.

If I'm at an overland XP grind location, I'll ask others in the area if they want to group. If they don't, I'll help collect the adds in one place but mow them down after. Speed is the key there.

I was at an overland XP grind location where there was 1 other person farming XP, and prime time was starting. I offered to group, they were rude. And then every few seconds they hit the "Move away from me" emote. I said it was a popular grind site and expecting to have it solo was unreasonable. More rudeness was returned, so I just repeatedly burned down the site. They left, and as more people came, I grouped them, and we got a ton of XP. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

UrQuan · June 4

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Thysbe wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

The answer is simple. Tagged mobs. I can see bosses or world bosses no needing to be tagged, but small packs should be. It keeps griefing from happening the way it does in ESO.

Tagged mobs are atrocious and only make players fight each other for the kill. Sharing XP and loot was one of the main improvements for me when switching from WoW to ESO.

I remember quite well standing around a rare mob or quest mob with 15 other players and only the ones tagging it the fastest would be able to proceed with the quest or get loot

I don't disagree, but correct me if I am wrong. In ESO you still do not get credit even if you attacked initially if the other player who comes along does most of the damage.

OK, I'll correct you: you're wrong. In ESO everyone who damages a mob gets credit. The amount of XP each person gets is increased if there are 2 people in the area doing the damage, and then decreased for each person beyond the 2nd (I don't remember by how much). If there are more than 12 people fighting something then only the 12 who do the most damage will get any loot, but everyone who hits it still gets XP and credit for the kill.

SeaGtGruff · June 4

UrQuan wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Thysbe wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

The answer is simple. Tagged mobs. I can see bosses or world bosses no needing to be tagged, but small packs should be. It keeps griefing from happening the way it does in ESO.

Tagged mobs are atrocious and only make players fight each other for the kill. Sharing XP and loot was one of the main improvements for me when switching from WoW to ESO.

I remember quite well standing around a rare mob or quest mob with 15 other players and only the ones tagging it the fastest would be able to proceed with the quest or get loot

I don't disagree, but correct me if I am wrong. In ESO you still do not get credit even if you attacked initially if the other player who comes along does most of the damage.

OK, I'll correct you: you're wrong. In ESO everyone who damages a mob gets credit. The amount of XP each person gets is increased if there are 2 people in the area doing the damage, and then decreased for each person beyond the 2nd (I don't remember by how much). If there are more than 12 people fighting something then only the 12 who do the most damage will get any loot, but everyone who hits it still gets XP and credit for the kill.

In some cases, I've gotten credit for the kill even when the boss was killed as I was entering the area, even though I never got a hit in. I might not get loot privileges or XP for the kill (that I wasn't able to contribute to), but I often do get credit as far as any quest that involves killing the boss. I'd actually prefer that that not happen, because it bugs me for a quest objective to be satisfied like that if I didn't actually get to play through the quest myself, so I usually wait for the boss or other quest enemy to respawn, and if it won't respawn then I might drop the quest and start all over.

Edit: Typo

barney2525 · June 4

what's the basis for the Dolmen statement? A long time ago when I was first playing this game and watching a lot of videos it went over how the Dolmens functioned and pointed out running Dolmens was a good way to gain xp, especially during events that doubled XP. It's also been stated on videos that you don't have to contribute a whole lot if you don't want to because the majority of XP from a Dolmen comes from the reward from the chest. And they specifically mentioned mob XP being minimal in comparison with the Chest XP.

Now, in my case, when I was doing the Dolmens on new characters, I used to go for the Chains ASAP when I needed the Achievement Chain Breaker, and that was definitely competitive. So I don't have any negative thoughts toward those that do grab the Chains quickly. Since the Achievement is now account wide, now when I run Dolmens I don't care when the Chains get hit. I let other players hit them since they might be working on the Achievement.

But I don't buy the ' XP discrepancy ' theory without knowing factual data. It has never seemed that increasing levels running dolmens has had any difference in the Number of dolmens required to attain the ' next level ', be it fast closed chains or waiting until all mobs are wiped before collecting chains.

A better argument might be Mob Type Achievement if someone is trying to attain the Character General Achievements.

But I'm not going to just agree on the " This method is faster XP " . One method doing immediate chains you might Average dolmen clearing in 2 minutes. Another method wiping all mobs first might average Dolmen clearing in 3 minutes. Method 1 you are completing 30 per hour method 2 you are completing 20 per hour. Do the number of mobs XP in method 2 exceed the XP from method 1 ?

It's probably going to end up relatively equal.

IMHO

UnseenCat · June 4

Mobs in dolmens are there primarily to chew away at your health, to force them to be primarily a group event. The mobs don't provide much XP -- The XP mainly comes from the increasingly tougher sub-bosses up to the final boss, and then from collecting the chest at the end. If you're grinding dolmens for XP, the object is to get hits in on the bosses, grab the chest, and get on to the next one in sequence.

This plays out particularly in the Alik'r dolmen cycle where they're closely spaced and rotate quickly. Plays go in and burn down mobs in order to hit the pinions as quickly as possible, which advances the sub-boss/boss cycle where the XP is. The players gang up on the bosses but mainly use light attacks particularly when the dolmen is crowded; it's the only way for everybody to get a few quick hits in before the boss drops in the chaos. The advantage is that even huge groups of players can burn the series of dolmens in quick succession and it makes the XP grind go faster. For a low-level character, it's an automatic carry. Just join in, get some light attacks in on the bosses, collect the XP and run for the wayshrine to the next one. Still grindy but it's one of several ways to build XP reasonably quickly, and it's generally accepted that the Alik'r run is all about speed and efficiently closing them in an endless merry-go-round.

Now, dolmen cycles in other zones aren't nearly so fast, and therefore less crowded. There's more leeway for running fast or slow through them depending on the ad-hoc nature of the group. And if you really want to use a dolmen as a test for your build, then it's best to find one of the very isolated, remote ones. Some tend to be far enough off the beaten path that you have a good chance of having a go at soloing them; in that case it's up to you how fast you want to hit the pinions. But after a while, it's kind of pointless to keep killing mobs; just hit the pinion and move the action along to the more powerful opponents where the XP is.

DenverRalphy · June 4

UrQuan wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Thysbe wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

The answer is simple. Tagged mobs. I can see bosses or world bosses no needing to be tagged, but small packs should be. It keeps griefing from happening the way it does in ESO.

Tagged mobs are atrocious and only make players fight each other for the kill. Sharing XP and loot was one of the main improvements for me when switching from WoW to ESO.

I remember quite well standing around a rare mob or quest mob with 15 other players and only the ones tagging it the fastest would be able to proceed with the quest or get loot

I don't disagree, but correct me if I am wrong. In ESO you still do not get credit even if you attacked initially if the other player who comes along does most of the damage.

OK, I'll correct you: you're wrong. In ESO everyone who damages a mob gets credit. The amount of XP each person gets is increased if there are 2 people in the area doing the damage, and then decreased for each person beyond the 2nd (I don't remember by how much). If there are more than 12 people fighting something then only the 12 who do the most damage will get any loot, but everyone who hits it still gets XP and credit for the kill.

I think you may be mixing up group xp buffs and multiple player xp distribution.

Suppose a mob gives 1000xp. 2 non grouped players each tag it before it is killed, then they split the XP (1000 / 2) = 500 each. Grouped players receive a 20% bonus. So in the above example, it would be (1000 / 2) * 1.2 = 600 each. 3 people non grouped would be (1000 / 3) = 333 each, or grouped (1000 / 3) * 1.2 = 400 each. The 20% bonus is applied to all players in the group, but even so the more players in the group, the less of an impact it makes.

But then grouping adds another element to the player's advantage. A grouped player doesn't have to tag a mob to get kill credit, they just need to be within proximity to any grouped players that did. So you don't need to be tossing around an aoe like arrow spray to tag everything around you to get credit as you just need to be nearby.

[edit] At least, that's how it works last I recall the breakdown being explained.
[edit2] Rephrased around the math as I got lost in my own logic a couple of times.

UrQuan · June 5

DenverRalphy wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Thysbe wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

The answer is simple. Tagged mobs. I can see bosses or world bosses no needing to be tagged, but small packs should be. It keeps griefing from happening the way it does in ESO.

Tagged mobs are atrocious and only make players fight each other for the kill. Sharing XP and loot was one of the main improvements for me when switching from WoW to ESO.

I remember quite well standing around a rare mob or quest mob with 15 other players and only the ones tagging it the fastest would be able to proceed with the quest or get loot

I don't disagree, but correct me if I am wrong. In ESO you still do not get credit even if you attacked initially if the other player who comes along does most of the damage.

OK, I'll correct you: you're wrong. In ESO everyone who damages a mob gets credit. The amount of XP each person gets is increased if there are 2 people in the area doing the damage, and then decreased for each person beyond the 2nd (I don't remember by how much). If there are more than 12 people fighting something then only the 12 who do the most damage will get any loot, but everyone who hits it still gets XP and credit for the kill.

I think you may be mixing up group xp buffs and multiple player xp distribution.

Suppose a mob gives 1000xp. 2 non grouped players each tag it before it is killed, then they split the XP (1000 / 2) = 500 each. Grouped players receive a 20% bonus. So in the above example, it would be (1000 / 2) * 1.2 = 600 each. 3 people non grouped would be (1000 / 3) = 333 each, or grouped (1000 / 3) * 1.2 = 400 each. The 20% bonus is applied to all players in the group, but even so the more players in the group, the less of an impact it makes.

But then grouping adds another element to the player's advantage. A grouped player doesn't have to tag a mob to get kill credit, they just need to be within proximity to any grouped players that did. So you don't need to be tossing around an aoe like arrow spray to tag everything around you to get credit as you just need to be nearby.

[edit] At least, that's how it works last I recall the breakdown being explained.
[edit2] Rephrased around the math as I got lost in my own logic a couple of times.

Hmm, that's not how I understood it worked, but I'm just going on how it's been explained to me and I've never bothered to test it myself to do the math, so you may be right.

katanagirl1 · June 5

I appreciate your considerate attitude towards other players that you have described here. I try to practice this myself. I have found that on my pre-hybridization stamblade with sneak gear on and sub-optimal weapons skllls that I still use today that I can get a guaranteed drop at bosses lately even if I use an easy rotation, so there is no reason to leave anyone else out of the loot by nuking everything down with a meta build. I am on console and we don’t have subclassing yet, though.

Vrelanier · June 5

Maybe it's a ping thing but I've had it happen several times that I don't get credit for a kill, with getting a hit in when the boss is under 10-20% hp and dies seconds later. Happens with the big guy in the cave in Gold Coast a lot. In public dungeons and delves I def hit the bosses asap with the biggest hit I got, which is still nothing compared to The Beam, and that's because I need the game to register my dps before the boss is gone. It's not a "me first" attitude, it's the game repeatedly telling me my hits don't matter, so ofc I do what I can to compensate. Otherwise I'd be there waiting endlessly for the time when no one else is around, to kill the boss alone. I don't even get to go through doors in ESO until everyone else around me has went through. : D the game often just doesn't register the stuff I ask from it.

When it comes to etiquette, no one gets to control how other people should spend their time. If someone needs that dolmen quest done asap, it's fine to go poke at the floaty things, and get it over with. Also, sometimes, the point for players isn't to kill as much as possible, but to contribute in ways that they can, and sometimes that means all they can do is to poke at floaty things. The people who want that precious xp can get it at the next dolmen, or go to Alik'r and farm it there. It's fine to express what you want from others at the sandbox, and it's also fine when others don't want to do those things.

frogthroat · June 5

Mofasa wrote: »

With the recent release of subclassing, the PvE areas, particularly public dungeons, have become crowded with high-level players testing out their newly maxed-out skills.

And casual players testing their newly maxed-out skills. And all kinds of players levelling up their subclassing skill lines. And the regular questers. And those who need the skyshard but also want some xp along the way. And all of them equally deserving the xp. Not one player is more deserving than the other.

Want your own kills? Go to an instanced area.

Mofasa wrote: »

Dungeons
If you see a player engaged in combat with one or more enemies, please refrain from assisting them unless they specifically request help or are on the verge of defeat.
When fighting a boss, consider holding back on using your ultimate abilities. Allow others to tag the boss first. While I understand that the player dealing the most damage typically receives the loot, it’s important to let everyone participate.

No. You want your own peace? Go to Skyreach, or BRP. Or any other instanced place.

Public Dungeons are.. wait for it... public!

The regular XP grinding places will be full at the moment. If you go to any public access area and hope for some alone time, you're going to have a bad time. Other players have exactly the same right to be there doing their thing as you do. I get sometimes frustrated, too, but I recognise this is an MMO and I am not the only player here. So I go to another place, then.

Currently there are many, many players playing. Even queues to get into the game. It would be extremely selfish to try to hog some public area just for me. Don't be that guy.

Mofasa wrote: »

Dolmens
You gain more experience by defeating the mobs that spawn rather than rushing to complete the event. Please avoid activating or closing the four glowing stones as soon as they light up. We miss out on valuable experience if you do this. Let’s take the time to eliminate all the mobs until they stop spawning before closing the stones.
Additionally, please avoid using pull or knockback abilities, as they can be quite disruptive for melee players.
When I enter a dungeon, I always allow lower-level players to engage the mobs on their own. I might help out by tagging bosses or sending in my companion, but I usually stand back and let them take the lead.

Dolmens are chaos. You cannot control chaos. When some tanks use chains, it used to annoy me, too. But now I just embrace the chaos. Dolmens go as they go. Don't expect anything and you won't be disappointed.

Eliahnus · June 5

Irhak wrote: »

This make sense only with the Alik'r Dolmens since those are activly used for farming... all other dolmens (and other world events) are not done for exp but for quest for them so it makes sense to get over with it asap...

Not really true. All other dolmens are&can be used to level your companions; those of Alik'r cannot.

JJBoomer · June 6

I don't agree with trying to force made up etiquette onto people. You are not an authority over anyone. And people aren't bad if they don't play the way you believe they should play.