Surprise surprise, Blastbones and Animate Blastbones (ulti) are unusable in PvP now.

Malyore · June 3

It's nice to see that, after enough pushback, concerns are being addressed and, importantly, communicated.

I don't use pets myself and don't know much about game development, but I do think a long term project to improve performance would be what others are saying here, turning blastbones into a projectile rather than a pet.

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_BrianWheeler
Something more to help performance, is it possible to turn other summons and pets into a form of a player's AoE, rather than being treated as a separate entity which is loaded into the map and having its own checks and interactions with other entities and the environment? My thinking is perhaps having pets like the matriarch and skeletal archer instead being something like boundless storm, but to have its AoE radius being much larger (similar to the current range of a pet's distance from its host), yet only having the capacity to hit one target at a time. Once it hits that one enemy, it flags it to where it continues to be the only one that can be hit by that huge AoE radius. And when a player heavy attacks, that has a prioritized flag so that pets can "focus" an enemy.
Then, as it appears outside of coding, an object-model of that pet (in this example let's use a matriarch) is then "fixated" near that flagged target. So the enemy the AoE is damaging will have a matriarch floating near it.

The only thing with that is that then the pet wouldn't have a health bar and couldn't be attacked. I think in order to take damage in this game, it must be an entity. So I'm not sure if that would be a bad idea. It would also affect things that check for pets.
Perhaps as a morph, or as a scribed ability it can be considered, with an incentive to make people choose it over their pets. This could also be an opportunity to make the pet not be a big flappy bird, if instead it's turned into a sprite which marks a target with a daedric rune or something. I'm not sure what it could be for necromancers or wardens in a way that satisfies their classes.

Just a thought for the team to consider. Pets have always seemed to be buggy. If there's a long term solution that satisfies players while reducing the load on the game, I think it should be explored. Having a survey for players about pets could be useful to determine how to balance this.

ZOS_BrianWheeler · June 3

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

According to the notes, Pets should be replacing corpses no matter what - yet blastbones is not casting if there are too many corpses on the ground even with only 2 pets.

This is something we're aware of and looking into. The way this works is fairly complex, and any changes require both a code and data change, plus ample testing. It is going to take time to scope out and complete this work.

ragnarok6644b14_ESO · June 3

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

According to the notes, Pets should be replacing corpses no matter what - yet blastbones is not casting if there are too many corpses on the ground even with only 2 pets.

This is something we're aware of and looking into. The way this works is fairly complex, and any changes require both a code and data change, plus ample testing. It is going to take time to scope out and complete this work.

Makes sense, thanks for the clear communication - keep us Necro mains updated! (Please? 🥺)

randconfig · June 3

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

According to the notes, Pets should be replacing corpses no matter what - yet blastbones is not casting if there are too many corpses on the ground even with only 2 pets.

This is something we're aware of and looking into. The way this works is fairly complex, and any changes require both a code and data change, plus ample testing. It is going to take time to scope out and complete this work.

That's fair and understandable. Just two more questions:

Can you reassure us that this will be the number one priority before anything else going into U47? Since it breaks gameplay for all Necromancer players and the hotfix doesn't address the underlying pet rules problem and may be immediately reverted if server performance tanks.
Also, is there any chance we could see a fix before U47?

cptscotty · June 3

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

According to the notes, Pets should be replacing corpses no matter what - yet blastbones is not casting if there are too many corpses on the ground even with only 2 pets.

This is something we're aware of and looking into. The way this works is fairly complex, and any changes require both a code and data change, plus ample testing. It is going to take time to scope out and complete this work.

Ample testing...would that mean putting this back on PTS and testing for u47?

xylena_lazarow · June 3

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The way this works is fairly complex, and any changes require both a code and data change, plus ample testing.

Does Blastbones really need to be a "pet" with its own mob and AI, instead of a normal projectile?

thechef209 · June 3

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

According to the notes, Pets should be replacing corpses no matter what - yet blastbones is not casting if there are too many corpses on the ground even with only 2 pets.

This is something we're aware of and looking into. The way this works is fairly complex, and any changes require both a code and data change, plus ample testing. It is going to take time to scope out and complete this work.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

May I pick your brain for a moment?

1) Why are Blastbones, Spirit Mender, and Skeleton Mage counted as Pets? They aren't semi-permanent (as in, they're on a timer) like a Sorcerer Winged Twilight or Familiar, or like a Warden Feral Guardian. Nor do the Necromancer skills have secondary effects that Players can manually activate. Same question but for the Betty Netch and Storm Atronach (since those were mentioned in the patch notes). It doesn't seem like those abilities fit the definition of a "Combat Pet".

2) Why are Corpses also counted as Pets? I know Necromancers are frowned upon in Tamriel Society, but I didn't think we were *that* weird...

3) If Corpses *aren't* considered pets (I *really* hope this isn't the case for PR reasons), are they considered Summons? I understand some abilities *create* Corpses, but any PvE enemy or PvP player can be used for Corpse Consumer abilities once dispatched. So, it doesn't seem like Corpses should be counted as Pets *or* Summons...

4) I guess what I'm getting at is, what are the back end definitions of a Combat Pet vs Summon vs Corpse? There seems to be a conflict and it's causing bugs and back end performance issues along with unclear communication to the players.

I would strongly recommend looking into these definitions and maybe simplifying them on the back end of things. For example: if Blastbones, Spirit Mender, Skeleton Mage, Betty Netch, Storm Atronach, and Corpses are considered "Pets", then that means they likely have AI packages attached making them performance draining entities instead of visual effects like the Warden Scorch ability.

Again, thank you so so much for addressing this issue and thank you for the transparency in communication!

huskandhunger · June 3

IncultaWolf wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Hey gang! Later today, we'll be pushing a hotfix to raise the pet cap from five to ten in PvP zones.

We’d also like give a little more context about why we made this change and why it remained as it was on the PTS. We originally reduced the pet cap to five for performance reasons because we saw that internally, even with only a few pets, if ALL players had pets there were performance issues. This was mostly going to be an Imperial City and Cyrodiil issue (due to the sheer amount of "pets" you could have with all the dead targets being generated). We do have the capability to put a cap in both PVP and PVE zones if performance dips below an acceptable amount for both the client or the server. With this change we are making both capped at 10, and will monitor perf along with the usage of pets. Having the cap set to two didn’t feel good, so we raised it to five for PTS and now launch.

We have seen your feedback about the five-pet cap, and have been weighing it against the very real game performance risk the higher we raise it. The other piece of this is that PTS is not the live servers, and we needed to see how things looked on the latter. Five pets may look fine performance-wise on the PTS, where we always see a lower population (especially in PvP content), then look different on the live servers.

So, we are raising the pet cap to ten later today via a hotfix and will monitor how things look. If we see significant game performance issues (severe frame rate drops, client crashes, etc.) we will need to drop the cap back down to five.

We hope that helps give a little extra context and we'll let you know when the hotfix has been rolled out. Thank you!

Appreciate the quick response and insight Brian. Have you or the team considered changing Blastbones like what was just done with the summon from the mad tinkerer set? It would function like Warden's scorch. Currently there are a lot of bugs associated with Blastbones because it's considered it's own AI/entity.

Such as it not counting towards battleground score/medals, cannot proc any sets in the game, and can be negated despite it being a stamina costing ability/ If it gets the killing blow in pvp, your name isn't broadcasted in the kill feed either.

This could be a great idea all around to potentially nip the bug and performance issues in the bud.

From an outsiders perspective, I always thought the skeleton should be a projectile like shalkes or spear or other abilities and sets, simplified.

Sordidfairytale · June 3

I'm just guessing here, but I believe corpses are considered "pets" due to some necromancer abilities being able to channel them. Yes, Templar has something similar, but the ability is not a channel, it's an instantaneous consumption. Some Necromancer abilities tether to the corpse and deal damage or provide a heal over time.

If that's the case; Grab the code used for Arcanist Crux, put a skull and floating bones on it then have any ability that would have generated a corpse generate a Bone Totem instead. Necromancers can also consume nearby corpses to generate a Bone Totem, they can only have 3 Bone Totems active at a time. The Necromancer launches the Bone Totem at a target now. Any ability that used a corpse to channel now consumes a Bone Totem instead.

This decouples the corpse from the pet count and uses a known system instead.

allochthons · June 3

Hotfix is in.

PC NA/EU Hotfix - Pet Cap Raised in PvP Zones
Hi everyone,

We recently completed a hotfix on the PC NA and EU megaservers to raise the pet cap from 5 to 10 in PvP zones. We'll be monitoring for any performance impacts and will let you know if any additional action will be required. For more information on this change, please see this forum post.

Thank you!

randconfig · June 3

huskandhunger wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Hey gang! Later today, we'll be pushing a hotfix to raise the pet cap from five to ten in PvP zones.

We’d also like give a little more context about why we made this change and why it remained as it was on the PTS. We originally reduced the pet cap to five for performance reasons because we saw that internally, even with only a few pets, if ALL players had pets there were performance issues. This was mostly going to be an Imperial City and Cyrodiil issue (due to the sheer amount of "pets" you could have with all the dead targets being generated). We do have the capability to put a cap in both PVP and PVE zones if performance dips below an acceptable amount for both the client or the server. With this change we are making both capped at 10, and will monitor perf along with the usage of pets. Having the cap set to two didn’t feel good, so we raised it to five for PTS and now launch.

We have seen your feedback about the five-pet cap, and have been weighing it against the very real game performance risk the higher we raise it. The other piece of this is that PTS is not the live servers, and we needed to see how things looked on the latter. Five pets may look fine performance-wise on the PTS, where we always see a lower population (especially in PvP content), then look different on the live servers.

So, we are raising the pet cap to ten later today via a hotfix and will monitor how things look. If we see significant game performance issues (severe frame rate drops, client crashes, etc.) we will need to drop the cap back down to five.

We hope that helps give a little extra context and we'll let you know when the hotfix has been rolled out. Thank you!

Appreciate the quick response and insight Brian. Have you or the team considered changing Blastbones like what was just done with the summon from the mad tinkerer set? It would function like Warden's scorch. Currently there are a lot of bugs associated with Blastbones because it's considered it's own AI/entity.

Such as it not counting towards battleground score/medals, cannot proc any sets in the game, and can be negated despite it being a stamina costing ability/ If it gets the killing blow in pvp, your name isn't broadcasted in the kill feed either.

This could be a great idea all around to potentially nip the bug and performance issues in the bud.

From an outsiders perspective, I always thought the skeleton should be a projectile like shalkes or spear or other abilities and sets, simplified.

Surely they can fix a series of if statements to correctly allow blastbones to spawn above corpses. Blastbones being a pet that can block enemy player's targeted spells is half of the reason the ability is useful in PvP. I would hate a change to turn it into a projectile . . .

xylena_lazarow · June 3

randconfig wrote: »

Blastbones being a pet that can block enemy player's targeted spells is half of the reason the ability is useful in PvP.

"Useful" is quite the understatement. The game seems to prioritize pets (and critters in PvE) even if you tab target and place your crosshairs perfectly on the enemy. I'll see my vate laser suddenly shoot 90 degrees to the side for a Blastbones, it's nuts. I'm sure someone will claim it works fine for them, but it's pretty well documented over the past decade.

Joy_Division · June 3

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Hey gang! Later today, we'll be pushing a hotfix to raise the pet cap from five to ten in PvP zones.

We’d also like give a little more context about why we made this change and why it remained as it was on the PTS. We originally reduced the pet cap to five for performance reasons because we saw that internally, even with only a few pets, if ALL players had pets there were performance issues. This was mostly going to be an Imperial City and Cyrodiil issue (due to the sheer amount of "pets" you could have with all the dead targets being generated). We do have the capability to put a cap in both PVP and PVE zones if performance dips below an acceptable amount for both the client or the server. With this change we are making both capped at 10, and will monitor perf along with the usage of pets. Having the cap set to two didn’t feel good, so we raised it to five for PTS and now launch.

We have seen your feedback about the five-pet cap, and have been weighing it against the very real game performance risk the higher we raise it. The other piece of this is that PTS is not the live servers, and we needed to see how things looked on the latter. Five pets may look fine performance-wise on the PTS, where we always see a lower population (especially in PvP content), then look different on the live servers.

So, we are raising the pet cap to ten later today via a hotfix and will monitor how things look. If we see significant game performance issues (severe frame rate drops, client crashes, etc.) we will need to drop the cap back down to five.

We hope that helps give a little extra context and we'll let you know when the hotfix has been rolled out. Thank you!

Thank you for the prompt action in making a temporary fix so people can play their class while a more permanent solution is sought.

If ZOS is so concerned about PvP performance, I once again would urge the combat team to reconsider this

.

as it is a every night reality of every organized group player.

Desiato · June 3

React wrote: »

I really struggle to understand why not a single CM or developer could be bothered to comment on this during the entire PTS cycle. There is no possible way the team wasn't aware of the multiple threads covering this concern.

Because gaming enthusiasts are the secondary audience here and when push comes to shove, we get shoved, every single time.

Jusey1 · June 3

Didn't they remove Blastbones a while back ago to replace it with a self-buffing ability anyways? Still am mad about that.

Plusscher · June 3

I see people talking about PvP here mostly, but I have to say even just parsing in a house in a "PvE situation" the combat pet limit reached appears, EVEN when I'm not hitting the cap. Back to back to back animation playing and blastbones not casting, sometimes the notification pops up, sometimes it just doesn't. In content it's even worse. The difference between the damage of it casting or not casting back to back to back is genuinely HUGE.

When I first saw this popup, and started paying attention, several times either 0 or 1 active corpse + archer and blastbones refused to cast with popup stating I reached cap limit (on dummy of course, in content it's a 50/50 and hard to make observations like that).

Edit: All of this without subclassing any other pet line, just pure necro as it is.

Alaztor91 · June 3

Plusscher wrote: »

I see people talking about PvP here mostly, but I have to say even just parsing in a house in a "PvE situation" the combat pet limit reached appears, EVEN when I'm not hitting the cap. Back to back to back animation playing and blastbones not casting, sometimes the notification pops up, sometimes it just doesn't. In content it's even worse. The difference between the damage of it casting or not casting back to back to back is genuinely HUGE.

When I first saw this popup, and started paying attention, several times either 0 or 1 active corpse + archer and blastbones refused to cast with popup stating I reached cap limit (on dummy of course, in content it's a 50/50 and hard to make observations like that).

Edit: All of this without subclassing any other pet line, just pure necro as it is.

I thought that maybe it was the corpses from slain enemies in PvP that had something to do with the problem, but if you are getting the ''failed to summon combat pet'' message in PvE, in a parse dummy, with the 10 limit cap and with no other slain enemies to provide extra corpses then I would say that the ''pet rules'' or the priority that ''active pets'' like BB and Skeletal Mage should have over Corpses is clearly not working correctly.

ragnarok6644b14_ESO · June 3

Alaztor91 wrote: »

Plusscher wrote: »

I see people talking about PvP here mostly, but I have to say even just parsing in a house in a "PvE situation" the combat pet limit reached appears, EVEN when I'm not hitting the cap. Back to back to back animation playing and blastbones not casting, sometimes the notification pops up, sometimes it just doesn't. In content it's even worse. The difference between the damage of it casting or not casting back to back to back is genuinely HUGE.

When I first saw this popup, and started paying attention, several times either 0 or 1 active corpse + archer and blastbones refused to cast with popup stating I reached cap limit (on dummy of course, in content it's a 50/50 and hard to make observations like that).

Edit: All of this without subclassing any other pet line, just pure necro as it is.

I thought that maybe it was the corpses from slain enemies in PvP that had something to do with the problem, but if you are getting the ''failed to summon combat pet'' message in PvE, in a parse dummy, with the 10 limit cap and with no other slain enemies to provide extra corpses then I would say that the ''pet rules'' or the priority that ''active pets'' like BB and Skeletal Mage should have over Corpses is clearly not working correctly.

I would say it is worse than that, given there isn't likely to BE 10 corpses from a single Necro, unless you are working overtime on generating them lol

Deimus · June 3

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

According to the notes, Pets should be replacing corpses no matter what - yet blastbones is not casting if there are too many corpses on the ground even with only 2 pets.

This is something we're aware of and looking into. The way this works is fairly complex, and any changes require both a code and data change, plus ample testing. It is going to take time to scope out and complete this work.

This is how it should be, better to have it delayed without bugs than ship it broken and fix it down the line. I'm not a fan of the pet change due to the ripple effect it has on the Necromancer class mastery, Deaden Pain, and Animate Blastbones, but if any change goes through it should work as intended and not inhibit core gameplay.

Since there are eyes on this now is it possible to alter or reclassify corpses from "pets" to something similar to effects from sets like Essence Thief, Arcanist's crux or even give them a separate classification from pets?

randconfig · June 4

Deimus wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

According to the notes, Pets should be replacing corpses no matter what - yet blastbones is not casting if there are too many corpses on the ground even with only 2 pets.

This is something we're aware of and looking into. The way this works is fairly complex, and any changes require both a code and data change, plus ample testing. It is going to take time to scope out and complete this work.

This is how it should be, better to have it delayed without bugs than ship it broken and fix it down the line. I'm not a fan of the pet change due to the ripple effect it has on the Necromancer class mastery, Deaden Pain, and Animate Blastbones, but if any change goes through it should work as intended and not inhibit core gameplay.

Since there are eyes on this now is it possible to alter or reclassify corpses from "pets" to something similar to effects from sets like Essence Thief, Arcanist's crux or even give them a separate classification from pets?

I wish they would make corpses like crux, a self stacking buff that can be used to cast corpse consuming abilities.

I've always hated the ground target corpse mechanic, it's always been buggy and inconsistent. This would require rethinking tethers though and the Corpsebuster set, but would be healthier for the game long-term since performance is so compromised by the corpses.

Lazarus_Rising · June 4

I am considering to hop back on ESO (That also means on my Necromancer). How does it look atm? Is it working now with the Hotfix or are there still problems?

Especially curious how it works with Animate Blastbones now

Plusscher · June 4

Lazarus_Rising wrote: »

I am considering to hop back on ESO (That also means on my Necromancer). How does it look atm? Is it working now with the Hotfix or are there still problems?

Especially curious how it works with Animate Blastbones now

I do not know if they pushed out the hotfix yet, but it's the same if not worse just on dummy (just tested it again out of curiosity) so my assumption would be yes, there are still severe issues.

Now not only blastbones refuse to cast, but also archer, with basically again 0 or 1 active (has soul active) body. Dare I say it is just borderline unplayable at this point (even in PvE with basically NOTHING going on with dummy, no dead adds, no other players, etc), which in turn makes me incredibly sad.

(This time I included bar as well, forgot on last picture)

Lazarus_Rising · June 4

Plusscher wrote: »

Lazarus_Rising wrote: »

I am considering to hop back on ESO (That also means on my Necromancer). How does it look atm? Is it working now with the Hotfix or are there still problems?

Especially curious how it works with Animate Blastbones now

I do not know if they pushed out the hotfix yet, but it's the same if not worse just on dummy (just tested it again out of curiosity) so my assumption would be yes, there are still severe issues.

Now not only blastbones refuse to cast, but also archer, with basically again 0 or 1 active (has soul active) body. Dare I say it is just borderline unplayable at this point (even in PvE with basically NOTHING going on with dummy, no dead adds, no other players, etc), which in turn makes me incredibly sad.

(This time I included bar as well, forgot on last picture)

Sorry i am fully out of the picture what happened the couple last months with changes. Seems like they increased the pet limit to 10 in pvp now. I did some test parses and i come to the same conclusion as you. Still has problems.

But that was only with necromancer without subclassing. The problem will be even more severe if you want to make a pet build with subclassing into sorcerer for example.

It seems like my favorite class is an unfixable mess. It saddens me that there is a season about necromancers and the class is once again not working in any way.

I do not want to touch PVP in anyway as well now. While other classes increase their potential with subclassing, necromancer is not at all. Sad and disheartening

Thanks for your answer, mate.

Sluggy · June 4

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Thanks for all of the info here @ZOS_BrianWheeler

I'd like to urge the team to double check the rules for replacing corpses as well. If the dev team decides they need to drop the pet cap back down to 5, they need to take a look at how pets replace corpses.

According to the notes, Pets should be replacing corpses no matter what - yet blastbones is not casting if there are too many corpses on the ground even with only 2 pets.

For one thing I can't even imagine corpses are contributing much of anything to server stress. Not sure why they are considered a pet regardless. Oughtn't they be their own class of spawnable entity with their own max count allowed?

Malyore · June 5

Sluggy wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Thanks for all of the info here @ZOS_BrianWheeler

I'd like to urge the team to double check the rules for replacing corpses as well. If the dev team decides they need to drop the pet cap back down to 5, they need to take a look at how pets replace corpses.

According to the notes, Pets should be replacing corpses no matter what - yet blastbones is not casting if there are too many corpses on the ground even with only 2 pets.

For one thing I can't even imagine corpses are contributing much of anything to server stress. Not sure why they are considered a pet regardless. Oughtn't they be their own class of spawnable entity with their own max count allowed?

I imagine maybe they're considered entities with 1hp that can only be "damaged" by an invisible damage type hidden within corpse consuming abilities.
ESO seems like an extremely limited game, and so I presume that something can either only be an ability, object, or an entity. And, that only entities can have reactions to player abilities. Non-playable entities that are allied with us I think is all that a "pet" actually is.

siebenstein5b16_ESO · June 5

Can it be that the problem also occurs with the Sorcerer's Bound Armaments Skill? I ask, because, they would not cast on a dummy parse yesterday and the counter went from the usual 2 to 4 to 6 and 8 which I have never seen before. I had both my 'regular' pets active at the time.

jaws343 · June 5

siebenstein5b16_ESO wrote: »

Can it be that the problem also occurs with the Sorcerer's Bound Armaments Skill? I ask, because, they would not cast on a dummy parse yesterday and the counter went from the usual 2 to 4 to 6 and 8 which I have never seen before. I had both my 'regular' pets active at the time.

That's a good point to look into, and I think the 10 limit is going to be a mess in both PVE and PVP.

Take a commonly proposed subclass build of necro, sorc, warden.

To start with, you can have 6 pets immediately (twilight, scamp, skeletal mage, blast bones, netch, bear). That leaves room for 4 corpses. Which is probably manageable, but in large fights in PVP, that limit is going to be hit really quickly. And how does it work if you are using Animate Blastbones ultimate, will it even generate blastbones?

In PVE, I think the 10 limit is going to be even worse though. 6 pets to start with. But, if you are In IA, you get the watcher permanent pet, and you can get the other permanent pet through visions. So 8 pets. But, you can also get temporary pets through verses as well. So 9 pets potentially, before you even count corpses. Does the companion count as a pet against the cap? If so, you are at cap and haven't even generated a corpse yet.

And in those examples, I am only looking at it from a 1 bar perspective and somewhat longer lasting pets, but you could go even further with 2 bars or more temporary pets with set procs. 10 just seems incredibly limiting for the potential of these builds and for the viability of some of these skill mechanics.

Alaztor91 · June 5

jaws343 wrote: »

That's a good point to look into, and I think the 10 limit is going to be a mess in both PVE and PVP.

Take a commonly proposed subclass build of necro, sorc, warden.

To start with, you can have 6 pets immediately (twilight, scamp, skeletal mage, blast bones, netch, bear). That leaves room for 4 corpses. Which is probably manageable, but in large fights in PVP, that limit is going to be hit really quickly. And how does it work if you are using Animate Blastbones ultimate, will it even generate blastbones?

In PVE, I think the 10 limit is going to be even worse though. 6 pets to start with. But, if you are In IA, you get the watcher permanent pet, and you can get the other permanent pet through visions. So 8 pets. But, you can also get temporary pets through verses as well. So 9 pets potentially, before you even count corpses. Does the companion count as a pet against the cap? If so, you are at cap and haven't even generated a corpse yet.

And in those examples, I am only looking at it from a 1 bar perspective and somewhat longer lasting pets, but you could go even further with 2 bars or more temporary pets with set procs. 10 just seems incredibly limiting for the potential of these builds and for the viability of some of these skill mechanics.

You wouldn't be able to use Animate Blastbones in that scenario because that would require an additional skill line. Afaik the 10 limit for PvE was always a thing, it's just that ZOS apparently never mentioned it until players started encountering issues with Blastbones failing to cast due to recent changes allowing you to generate more corpses than before(Necro Class script, reworked Grave Grasp, etc), some players also encountered this issue in IA with the ''Lich Avatar'' transformation because of the extra summons.

I doubt that the ''pet'' limit will ever go above 10 though, so I guess that players will have to test for themselves if other stuff like Maw/Engine Guardian/Morkuldin/etc are part of it and what are they going to sacrifice so that the extra pets aren't wasted. Like you said, beside skills they also have to factor in Companions and potential extra pets like the IA Watcher/Lich Avatar, procs from sets, etc.

ZOS should seriously rework the Corpse system to something similar to Crux so that Necros aren't operating at a disadvantage in this obviously not well thought out new system.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · June 5

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

According to the notes, Pets should be replacing corpses no matter what - yet blastbones is not casting if there are too many corpses on the ground even with only 2 pets.

This is something we're aware of and looking into. The way this works is fairly complex, and any changes require both a code and data change, plus ample testing. It is going to take time to scope out and complete this work.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Kevin
The team should make casted pets prioritize over bodies if lowering the limit. I.e. casting the pet would 'consume' the body so it no longer counts towards the limit. This would obviously affect Repentance and some Necro skills but it would be better than not casting the skill at all.

Ideally some reward for doing this akin to Arc's 'Consuming all active crux', make these skills 'consume all active bodies'

jaws343 · June 5

Alaztor91 wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

That's a good point to look into, and I think the 10 limit is going to be a mess in both PVE and PVP.

Take a commonly proposed subclass build of necro, sorc, warden.

To start with, you can have 6 pets immediately (twilight, scamp, skeletal mage, blast bones, netch, bear). That leaves room for 4 corpses. Which is probably manageable, but in large fights in PVP, that limit is going to be hit really quickly. And how does it work if you are using Animate Blastbones ultimate, will it even generate blastbones?

In PVE, I think the 10 limit is going to be even worse though. 6 pets to start with. But, if you are In IA, you get the watcher permanent pet, and you can get the other permanent pet through visions. So 8 pets. But, you can also get temporary pets through verses as well. So 9 pets potentially, before you even count corpses. Does the companion count as a pet against the cap? If so, you are at cap and haven't even generated a corpse yet.

And in those examples, I am only looking at it from a 1 bar perspective and somewhat longer lasting pets, but you could go even further with 2 bars or more temporary pets with set procs. 10 just seems incredibly limiting for the potential of these builds and for the viability of some of these skill mechanics.

You wouldn't be able to use Animate Blastbones in that scenario because that would require an additional skill line. Afaik the 10 limit for PvE was always a thing, it's just that ZOS apparently never mentioned it until players started encountering issues with Blastbones failing to cast due to recent changes allowing you to generate more corpses than before(Necro Class script, reworked Grave Grasp, etc), some players also encountered this issue in IA with the ''Lich Avatar'' transformation because of the extra summons.

I doubt that the ''pet'' limit will ever go above 10 though, so I guess that players will have to test for themselves if other stuff like Maw/Engine Guardian/Morkuldin/etc are part of it and what are they going to sacrifice so that the extra pets aren't wasted. Like you said, beside skills they also have to factor in Companions and potential extra pets like the IA Watcher/Lich Avatar, procs from sets, etc.

ZOS should seriously rework the Corpse system to something similar to Crux so that Necros aren't operating at a disadvantage in this obviously not well thought out new system.

I forgot about the IA Lich mechanic entirely. Good point on Animate being a different line, but I could see it be a problem on a base necro subclassed build with just 1 skill line swapped in.