Subclassing Destroy player uniquness

Lucasalex92 · June 2

so it seem many players lost their uniqueness because there is this TEMPLATES for must have skills for PVP and PVE other wise you are not good enough ... [snip]

in meantime where is:

Hand to Hand Combat skill line
Mysticism Staff
Illusion Staff
Conjuration Staff
Crossbow
Whip
Spear
Spear + shield skill lines ?

would be also nice if you remake psijic to be more Mage Like not warrior/ninja style skill lines since psijic monks are mostly mages ,,, they study magic ...

i wish we had chain lightning or fire ball that on touch explode and deal aoe dmg

Scribing need more skills to be scribed not only 1 of each, maybe add option to create for us spells/ulti in scribing , allow also for example to choose in scribing bleed/poison/diesease/fire/ice damage + aoe (which u blocked with physical damage mostly only) instead let us choose which aoe type damage it will be dealth, or maybe add oblivion damage too.

So many ideas wasted [snip]

[edited for bashing]

Imperial_Archmage · June 2

How have you lost uniqueness when you can now have even more unique builds than before? I think what you mean to say is that most players, presumably including yourself, will forgo creating fun and unique builds of their own and will instead gravitate to whichever combination is the “meta.” That’s on you not the developers. All they did was open up the class restrictions, if you choose to still bind yourself to the meta that’s your choice.

Lucasalex92 · June 2

Because players now and i see it as of today day 1 are stuck with same skill set ups, especially in pvp - same skills usage and sets ...

TheAgentNZ · June 2

nobody says you have to run the meta as you're probably seeing in videos online. You, personally, can be unique in what you do and how you play.

With respect to your comment on sets, nothing changes in U46 than U45, U44, U43.... with sets. There will always be sets that outperform others and are the go-to. This patch is no different.

[snip]

This seems very unlikely.

[edited to remove quote]

Tannus15 · June 2

Crazy idea. Do something different.
Mad.

Maggusemm · June 2

no it doesnt

Zama666 · June 2

I have to try it to find out....then I will decide...

Lucasalex92 · June 2

Maggusemm wrote: »

no it doesnt

in your opinion, you cant force someone to like something you do

francesinhalover · June 2

Ill take 100 fatecarvers to 10 banners any day. Banner needs a Nerf it isnt needed in the game and destroys FPS.

Not ONLY that it removes the uniqueness of the crux system

alpha_synuclein · June 3

The fun in having all the choices happens when we have options for creating very different playstyles that give similar level of power. What we're actually getting since hybridization and now with subclassing is quite the opposite. Playstyles get more and more alike and few build clearly overshadow others.

Gankform · June 3

in a month all they will play the same meta SubBuild, w8 and u will see..all the same.

woe · June 3

It's been gone for a long time

moderatelyfatman · June 3

The really sad thing is the power differential. My nightblade guildie is proud of their difficulty rotations and doesn't mind getting 5% less dps than an arcanist with a much simpler rotation.
Unfortunately he gets 50% less so no endgame dps for him.

Thysbe · June 3

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

The really sad thing is the power differential. My nightblade guildie is proud of their difficulty rotations and doesn't mind getting 5% less dps than an arcanist with a much simpler rotation.
Unfortunately he gets 50% less so no endgame dps for him.

Turned my Nb into such a beam abomination - so sad, not a single active skill left. I literally had to gag when taking away the NB skill lines.

I know - I cold play my fancy RP something - what pure builds now are, but I honestly respect my team members time too much to expect them to carry me with a horribly performing char through trifectas.

Carry meaning you perform way below group average, without delivering additional support to me.

Soarora · June 3

I mean, yes and no. Uniqueness has been gone. But subclassing means even support dps and “I main x class” probably going out the window. Does it cause the problem of lacking uniqueness? No. Does it make it worse? Yes.

colossalvoids · June 3

That's the question of exclusivity and identity. Both are gone, to the pleasure of people who despised the class system but I'm not sure that's the result they wanted either, as we still don't have the usual lines of for example conjuration and alteration, those are still very specific class bound fantasies that are available for other classes but breaking the visual and narrative theme.

But in some form zos is right having stated (and people do agree apparently in this thread at large) that it's more uniqueness now with more combinations available, same as having hundreds of sets, scribing combinations etc. are the sign of uniqueness in their book, not an enhanced class fantasy with your personal spin, just your spin on anything the company does (without questioning viability of it) with no restrictions (there's lots of them but yet again in their book it seems irrelevant to the point they want to make).

licenturion · June 3

There wasn't much class identity to begin with. Every class had 3 unique skills lines to that class out of nearly 50 skill lines in total.

I quite enjoy the big laser show in spellscar levelling up subclass skill lines. As someone who doesn't like alts, I am having a blast.

johnbonne · June 3

Lucasalex92 wrote: »

so it seem many players lost their uniqueness because there is this TEMPLATES for must have skills for PVP and PVE other wise you are not good enough ... [snip]

On the contrary, player characters have never been so unique; the number of possibilities is objectively higher. In regards to templates, there have been build guides for no small amount of time in video games. This has been as much a pro as a con in MMOs for decades: you'll always have people who make and show templates across the web, and unfortunately, you'll have some people treat them as gospel and if you don't adhere to it you're a heretic. I suppose in a sense, there can only be one build that does the absolute most damage (as opposed to one per class), but that's always been the case, whether you have a class or class-less game. I don't know how many people will play that build, what that context is, and if they'll enjoy doing so, but if they wanted to be the very best they were always going to do that, subclassing or not.

If what you're referring to is class fantasy, then that's a tricky subject. On the one hand, yes the strict adherence to classes, their lore and purposes in the game has gone. On the other hand, there's dramatically more ways to make a character your character; maybe you've reluctantly taken the path of the Templar to attone for your past sins as a Nightblade, or your culture's religion is a mixture of both Warden and Necromancer magicks. On another hand, which I don't know where it came from but let's /roll with it, classes in the Elder Scrolls are typically suggestions more than rules, which ordinarily just combine things every character has access to but puts greater or lesser emphasis on specific abilities.

Lucasalex92 wrote: »

[snip]

Why on Earth would ZOS/Microsoft want that? I'm unsure if you want to discuss or rant. Either's fine, I guess.

[

Lucasalex92 wrote: »

in meantime where is:

Hand to Hand Combat skill line
Mysticism Staff
Illusion Staff
Conjuration Staff
Crossbow
Whip
Spear
Spear + shield skill lines ?

I concur, bringing those into the game would be amazing (I do so love H2H). But much like the remainder of your post, I'm not sure what that's got to do with class uniqueness (especially the destruction thereof) though. What exactly is your criticism? I won't be engaging much in subclasses so I'm neither for or against them, but I feel we're having at least two different conversations in one thread here.

[edited to remove quote]

MISTFORMBZZZ · June 3

TheAgentNZ wrote: »

nobody says you have to run the meta as you're probably seeing in videos online. You, personally, can be unique in what you do and how you play.

this was lazy move to create more player friction or get those who dont like the idea to leave the game ?

This seems very unlikely.

Youre right. You can decide to not stick with the meta and run some roleplay do what ever you like stuff.
And then you just get farmed in pvp and not be allowed to join in pve.

Cardhwion · June 3

To be honest, there was no "uniqueness" before, at least not for those who played the meta. They played meta then and they will play it now and they will play it tomorrow. No change. No need to complain.

As for the rest - I see people try out stuff, some just having fun. I do too.

ADarklore · June 3

Cardhwion wrote: »

To be honest, there was no "uniqueness" before, at least not for those who played the meta. They played meta then and they will play it now and they will play it tomorrow. No change. No need to complain.

As for the rest - I see people try out stuff, some just having fun. I do too.

Exactly ^THIS! Every time there is a major update, people complain about 'the new meta' and then they mindlessly follow along and let others set the rules for them. Next update, rinse and repeat. In all honesty, perhaps now more endgame players will leave, and we'll see less nerfing for us solo players. As HTM said in his video afterall, it's the solo players keeping ESO alive both financially and in population... and we don't complain except when endgame players get our builds nerfed due to min/maxing.

MISTFORMBZZZ · June 3

ADarklore wrote: »

Cardhwion wrote: »

To be honest, there was no "uniqueness" before, at least not for those who played the meta. They played meta then and they will play it now and they will play it tomorrow. No change. No need to complain.

As for the rest - I see people try out stuff, some just having fun. I do too.

Exactly ^THIS! Every time there is a major update, people complain about 'the new meta' and then they mindlessly follow along and let others set the rules for them. Next update, rinse and repeat. In all honesty, perhaps now more endgame players will leave, and we'll see less nerfing for us solo players. As HTM said in his video afterall, it's the solo players keeping ESO alive both financially and in population... and we don't complain except when endgame players get our builds nerfed due to min/maxing.

Do you think they want to loose all the endgame players who are bringing the cashflow ? They just did a big mistake releasing tis and time will tell.

Sylosi · June 3

I never get why people go on about class identity in ESO, it is a game that barely had any even before subclassing. You have a game where:

- The majority of the skills are available to every class (Mage / Fighter guilds, Vamp, Werewolf, armour skills, weapon skills, psijic order, alliance skills and so on).
- Every class can use every weight of armour.
- Every class can use every weapon.
- Every class can be any race.
- Every class can perform every role.
- There is very little uniqueness in terms of mechanics, they all use Majika/Stam, all have the same number of skill slots, etc, all you have is a little difference for Necro and Arcanist.

Of all the MMOs I've played that actually have classes (Rift, LOTRO, GW2, etc) ESO has always had the least class identity, by a long, long way. If you are bothered about class identity, ESO was never the game for you.

MISTFORMBZZZ · June 3

ADarklore wrote: »

Cardhwion wrote: »

To be honest, there was no "uniqueness" before, at least not for those who played the meta. They played meta then and they will play it now and they will play it tomorrow. No change. No need to complain.

As for the rest - I see people try out stuff, some just having fun. I do too.

As HTM said in his video afterall, it's the solo players keeping ESO alive both financially and in population... and we don't complain except when endgame players get our builds nerfed due to min/maxing.

And this is just wrong. It's primarily endgame players who invest in things like houses, all the chapters, DLCs, new classes, and so on—largely to stay competitive and keep up with endgame content.

It's hard to see how solo or non-endgame players, who don't typically engage with that content, would be the main drivers of the game's revenue.

I've noticed you've expressed this opinion in other threads too, and of course you're entitled to your view—but it's off the mark in this case.

sans-culottes · June 3

ADarklore wrote: »

Cardhwion wrote: »

To be honest, there was no "uniqueness" before, at least not for those who played the meta. They played meta then and they will play it now and they will play it tomorrow. No change. No need to complain.

As for the rest - I see people try out stuff, some just having fun. I do too.

Exactly ^THIS! Every time there is a major update, people complain about 'the new meta' and then they mindlessly follow along and let others set the rules for them. Next update, rinse and repeat. In all honesty, perhaps now more endgame players will leave, and we'll see less nerfing for us solo players. As HTM said in his video afterall, it's the solo players keeping ESO alive both financially and in population... and we don't complain except when endgame players get our builds nerfed due to min/maxing.

@ADarkLore, this is a familiar pattern in your posts: broad normative claims presented as fact, often sourced from creators like HTM who don’t speak for the playerbase at large.

Solo players are indeed a major portion of ESO’s population, but the idea that they alone “keep ESO alive” financially and demographically is speculative at best. Many solo players also engage in group content, crafting, trading, housing, or light endgame. It’s not a binary.

More importantly, subclassing affects everyone. Damage thresholds, gear economies, and skill design don’t just live in trifecta guilds. They trickle down into vet dungeons, world bosses, and even overland group events. Saying “just play your own way” ignores how performance ceilings influence performance expectations across the game.

Solo builds don’t get nerfed because endgame players complain. They get nerfed because ZOS introduces new systems—like subclassing—that shift the balance of power. Pretending this is a solo vs. endgame turf war only obscures how mechanical incentives affect all playstyles, not just yours.

P.S. @ADarkLore, respectfully, why the fixation on subclass balance and endgame discourse when you’ve repeatedly stated you’re a strictly solo PvE quester?

The solo content in ESO is so undertuned that even outdated or intentionally suboptimal builds breeze through it. By your own description, subclassing has no meaningful impact on how you engage with the game. So why the repeated assertions about who “keeps ESO alive” or what kinds of players “should” leave?

If subclassing introduces mechanical imbalance or power creep, then that matters for the parts of the game where those systems actually get tested. That’s not overland questing. It’s dungeons, trials, PvP, and arenas—content you’ve said you don’t play.

It’s fine to have an opinion. But let’s be clear: opinions rooted in mechanically irrelevant playstyles aren’t somehow more virtuous than those grounded in experience with the systems being discussed.

licenturion · June 3

Sylosi wrote: »

I never get why people go on about class identity in ESO, it is a game that barely had any even before subclassing. You have a game where:

- The majority of the skills are available to every class (Mage / Fighter guilds, Vamp, Werewolf, armour skills, weapon skills, psijic order, alliance skills and so on).
- Every class can use every weight of armour.
- Every class can use every weapon.
- Every class can be any race.
- Every class can perform every role.
- There is very little uniqueness in terms of mechanics, they all use Majika/Stam, all have the same number of skill slots, etc, all you have is a little difference for Necro and Arcanist.

Of all the MMOs I've played that actually have classes (Rift, LOTRO, GW2, etc) ESO has always had the least class identity, by a long, long way. If you are bothered about class identity, ESO was never the game for you.

Exactly this. And if you put the transmog system, the universal armor set procs and skill styles on top of all this you can even create more unique chaos with light armor that looks like heavy armor and blue beams and purple swings, a gigantic green boulder as a simple mage. .

sans-culottes · June 3

licenturion wrote: »

Sylosi wrote: »

I never get why people go on about class identity in ESO, it is a game that barely had any even before subclassing. You have a game where:

- The majority of the skills are available to every class (Mage / Fighter guilds, Vamp, Werewolf, armour skills, weapon skills, psijic order, alliance skills and so on).
- Every class can use every weight of armour.
- Every class can use every weapon.
- Every class can be any race.
- Every class can perform every role.
- There is very little uniqueness in terms of mechanics, they all use Majika/Stam, all have the same number of skill slots, etc, all you have is a little difference for Necro and Arcanist.

Of all the MMOs I've played that actually have classes (Rift, LOTRO, GW2, etc) ESO has always had the least class identity, by a long, long way. If you are bothered about class identity, ESO was never the game for you.

Exactly this. And if you put the transmog system, the universal armor set procs and skill styles on top of all this you can even create more unique chaos with light armor that looks like heavy armor and blue beams and purple swings, a gigantic green boulder as a simple mage. .

If you enjoy that kind of chaotic mix-and-match aesthetic, then that’s great. More power to you. But for many of us, thematic coherence and symbolic consistency are part of the appeal. Class identity isn’t about rigid restrictions; it’s about a sense of narrative and visual cohesion. When everything looks and feels interchangeable, the game world starts to lose its texture. Some of us actually like when a Necromancer feels like a Necromancer, not a disco ball.

Everest_Lionheart · June 3

I walked away from the game when they introduced the Arcanist class. I was in several trifecta endgame raid groups and every one of them wanted to swap over to 8 arc DD’s to blast through content. I’m not sure that has changed, but I have come back to the game to catch up on 2 years of content and to see what’s what. I have no interest in chasing the meta ever again because it made the game not fun for me.

As for subclassing I may play around with it to create a true elemental class combining sorc, warden and DK lines together. It won’t be the strongest from what I am reading, but hopefully it will still be fun.

LalMirchi · June 3

sans-culottes wrote: »

licenturion wrote: »

Sylosi wrote: »

I never get why people go on about class identity in ESO, it is a game that barely had any even before subclassing. You have a game where:

- The majority of the skills are available to every class (Mage / Fighter guilds, Vamp, Werewolf, armour skills, weapon skills, psijic order, alliance skills and so on).
- Every class can use every weight of armour.
- Every class can use every weapon.
- Every class can be any race.
- Every class can perform every role.
- There is very little uniqueness in terms of mechanics, they all use Majika/Stam, all have the same number of skill slots, etc, all you have is a little difference for Necro and Arcanist.

Of all the MMOs I've played that actually have classes (Rift, LOTRO, GW2, etc) ESO has always had the least class identity, by a long, long way. If you are bothered about class identity, ESO was never the game for you.

Exactly this. And if you put the transmog system, the universal armor set procs and skill styles on top of all this you can even create more unique chaos with light armor that looks like heavy armor and blue beams and purple swings, a gigantic green boulder as a simple mage. .

If you enjoy that kind of chaotic mix-and-match aesthetic, then that’s great. More power to you. But for many of us, thematic coherence and symbolic consistency are part of the appeal. Class identity isn’t about rigid restrictions; it’s about a sense of narrative and visual cohesion. When everything looks and feels interchangeable, the game world starts to lose its texture. Some of us actually like when a Necromancer feels like a Necromancer, not a disco ball.

What of the many of us that have looked forward to, and currently enjoy these changes? Why fight a quixotic and fruitless battle against changes that have obviously been planned for a long time?

sans-culottes · June 3

LalMirchi wrote: »

sans-culottes wrote: »

licenturion wrote: »

Sylosi wrote: »

I never get why people go on about class identity in ESO, it is a game that barely had any even before subclassing. You have a game where:

- The majority of the skills are available to every class (Mage / Fighter guilds, Vamp, Werewolf, armour skills, weapon skills, psijic order, alliance skills and so on).
- Every class can use every weight of armour.
- Every class can use every weapon.
- Every class can be any race.
- Every class can perform every role.
- There is very little uniqueness in terms of mechanics, they all use Majika/Stam, all have the same number of skill slots, etc, all you have is a little difference for Necro and Arcanist.

Of all the MMOs I've played that actually have classes (Rift, LOTRO, GW2, etc) ESO has always had the least class identity, by a long, long way. If you are bothered about class identity, ESO was never the game for you.

Exactly this. And if you put the transmog system, the universal armor set procs and skill styles on top of all this you can even create more unique chaos with light armor that looks like heavy armor and blue beams and purple swings, a gigantic green boulder as a simple mage. .

If you enjoy that kind of chaotic mix-and-match aesthetic, then that’s great. More power to you. But for many of us, thematic coherence and symbolic consistency are part of the appeal. Class identity isn’t about rigid restrictions; it’s about a sense of narrative and visual cohesion. When everything looks and feels interchangeable, the game world starts to lose its texture. Some of us actually like when a Necromancer feels like a Necromancer, not a disco ball.

What of the many of us that have looked forward to, and currently enjoy these changes? Why fight a quixotic and fruitless battle against changes that have obviously been planned for a long time?

You’re not wrong to enjoy the changes, and no one’s saying you shouldn’t. But it’s not “quixotic” to voice concern about the direction of game design. Thematic coherence and role clarity matter to a lot of players, and not just for nostalgia’s sake. When everything trends toward sameness, the world feels less grounded. Some of us aren’t against change, just entropy masquerading as freedom.

huskandhunger · June 3

sans-culottes wrote: »

LalMirchi wrote: »

sans-culottes wrote: »

licenturion wrote: »

Sylosi wrote: »

I never get why people go on about class identity in ESO, it is a game that barely had any even before subclassing. You have a game where:

- The majority of the skills are available to every class (Mage / Fighter guilds, Vamp, Werewolf, armour skills, weapon skills, psijic order, alliance skills and so on).
- Every class can use every weight of armour.
- Every class can use every weapon.
- Every class can be any race.
- Every class can perform every role.
- There is very little uniqueness in terms of mechanics, they all use Majika/Stam, all have the same number of skill slots, etc, all you have is a little difference for Necro and Arcanist.

Of all the MMOs I've played that actually have classes (Rift, LOTRO, GW2, etc) ESO has always had the least class identity, by a long, long way. If you are bothered about class identity, ESO was never the game for you.

Exactly this. And if you put the transmog system, the universal armor set procs and skill styles on top of all this you can even create more unique chaos with light armor that looks like heavy armor and blue beams and purple swings, a gigantic green boulder as a simple mage. .

If you enjoy that kind of chaotic mix-and-match aesthetic, then that’s great. More power to you. But for many of us, thematic coherence and symbolic consistency are part of the appeal. Class identity isn’t about rigid restrictions; it’s about a sense of narrative and visual cohesion. When everything looks and feels interchangeable, the game world starts to lose its texture. Some of us actually like when a Necromancer feels like a Necromancer, not a disco ball.

What of the many of us that have looked forward to, and currently enjoy these changes? Why fight a quixotic and fruitless battle against changes that have obviously been planned for a long time?

You’re not wrong to enjoy the changes, and no one’s saying you shouldn’t. But it’s not “quixotic” to voice concern about the direction of game design. Thematic coherence and role clarity matter to a lot of players, and not just for nostalgia’s sake. When everything trends toward sameness, the world feels less grounded. Some of us aren’t against change, just entropy masquerading as freedom.

💯