The writing for the upcoming story content - some thoughts on the latest news article

metheglyn · May 31

mdjessup4906 wrote: »

For the writing, I prefer when everything isn't spelled out specifically for you; npcs as exposition dumps aren't that interesting to me. I understand they want to give people the chance to learn more about the situation/lore, but sometimes there's no way to advance the quest without asking the dummy question that tells you what you already know. I much prefer the option to skip dialogue choices if they don't align with your character. Like in Morrowind, though you had the option to ask about the Tribunal early on, you didn't have to take that conversational strand if your character already knew about them.

I think curbing this constant over-explaining would go a long way towards making quests not sound like they were written for especially dull witted kindergarteners.

Especially the main quests. Side quests dont have this problem as much for some reason.

I think that might be because side quests, being generally smaller in scope, don't have as many steps during the quest, so there's no need for the "previously on" recap. If there are people who like the recaps, by all means keep them; just give those of us who don't the option to skip them.

JemadarofCaerSalis · May 31

metheglyn wrote: »

mdjessup4906 wrote: »

For the writing, I prefer when everything isn't spelled out specifically for you; npcs as exposition dumps aren't that interesting to me. I understand they want to give people the chance to learn more about the situation/lore, but sometimes there's no way to advance the quest without asking the dummy question that tells you what you already know. I much prefer the option to skip dialogue choices if they don't align with your character. Like in Morrowind, though you had the option to ask about the Tribunal early on, you didn't have to take that conversational strand if your character already knew about them.

I think curbing this constant over-explaining would go a long way towards making quests not sound like they were written for especially dull witted kindergarteners.

Especially the main quests. Side quests dont have this problem as much for some reason.

I think that might be because side quests, being generally smaller in scope, don't have as many steps during the quest, so there's no need for the "previously on" recap. If there are people who like the recaps, by all means keep them; just give those of us who don't the option to skip them.

Yeah, sometimes I get interrupted or just suddenly don't feel like finishing the quest at the moment, so I quit before I get to the next stage. The recaps can be useful in that moment because I don't always remember exactly what I was meant to do, or what had happened in the past.

It is the no way to skip some of these dialogue choices and still advance the quest that is the problem, not so much that they are there.

Syldras · May 31

mdjessup4906 wrote: »

I think curbing this constant over-explaining would go a long way towards making quests not sound like they were written for especially dull witted kindergarteners.
Especially the main quests. Side quests dont have this problem as much for some reason.

I have the impression that the problem is that they concentrate on the lowest common denominator, in the proverbial sense: They care so much about even the most simple-minded person understanding what's going on, and by doing that, everything has to turn out extremely simplified, and of course more complex narrations seem... difficult.

I understand the wish for "accessibility", I also understand that a commercial company wants to appeal to as many people as possible, so there is a high number of sales, but at some point, too simple writing will drive people away. Especially if it's a very story- and lore-focused series like TES, where many people join out of interest for the stories and world they saw in the single-player TES games - people will lose interest and leave again if the quality of narrations isn't what they were wishing for. Of course I'm fully aware that you can't really expect in-depth writing like in single-player rpgs in an MMO, especially when it comes to things like quest design or freedom to choice, different outcomes of stories, etc, but still, there's only so much people will tolerate.

In a different thread someone wrote that simplified writing was a general tendency also in other online games. I found that interesting (I don't play any other MMOs).

Finedaible · May 31

The side quests in West Weald were probably the worst side quests to date in my opinion. I don't know if they were just rushing the development or what, but every single one felt incomplete and felt like a basic tour of their areas. It was all fetch quest, point to point, and sometimes an NPC to melt. I suspect all their time and effort for that chapter/update went into the Scribing quest - which was an ok quest, if a bit too Disney-esque for Elder Scrolls' tone - but anything outside the main quests was pretty cringe-worthy.

metheglyn · June 1

Syldras wrote: »

In a different thread someone wrote that simplified writing was a general tendency also in other online games. I found that interesting (I don't play any other MMOs).

The only other MMO I play is Lord of the Rings Online, and the writing there has not gotten simplified. If anything, as they've introduced areas that aren't as well known, it's gotten more complex as they are attempting to get across the history and lore of the places. Perhaps it helps that they don't have fully voiced npcs--some of the quest text can be quite long and intricate. They also have options sometimes when you talk to some of the npcs where you can get a lot more information from them if you want to, so you can have something like a deep dive on the lore.

Heren · June 1

metheglyn wrote: »

The only other MMO I play is Lord of the Rings Online, and the writing there has not gotten simplified. If anything, as they've introduced areas that aren't as well known, it's gotten more complex as they are attempting to get across the history and lore of the places. Perhaps it helps that they don't have fully voiced npcs--some of the quest text can be quite long and intricate. They also have options sometimes when you talk to some of the npcs where you can get a lot more information from them if you want to, so you can have something like a deep dive on the lore.

I have myself recently get back to lotro, and I would slightly disagree - though I havent played the most recent DLC, so my assesment of the situation is very incomplete ( and I really hope the new zones are interesting ).

I have done Swanfleet, though, and most of the Angle, and... it was slightly disapointing, story wise. Not going into details since this is not lotro forums, but there was some cheap lines here and there, a lack of cohesion between some quests ( and the stories behind them ) and the world as a whole, contradictions sometime, and a case of a very, very forced plot evolution.

Lotro is not ESO, story wise, narration wise, questing wise, so it would be hard to really compare them. Lotro favorise a wow-esque type of quests, with many quests featuring a lot of different objectives, when ESO is more straightforward, so I guess in lotro you have way more opportunities to put a lot of details in the texts ( and it's sometime really walls of text ); ESO, where everything is voice-acted ( and it is insanely great, don't get me wrong I absolutely love the work doing in ESO with voice-acting, but it as some drawback ), you most likely can't really go on for minutes ( a minute can be very long ) for a quest.

There is the books in ESO, true, and there is a good number of additional dialogues, from various NPC usually, which really help to get more informations, but in some ways I feel that you rarely get interesting additional informations, but mostly rehash of the same things you already know ( and I'm not even talking about the 'What are we doing here already ? Remind of who the guy we talked about non-stop since the beginning of the chapter is ? Explain me once again what just happened secondes ago ?'; thinking of that, it's a bit of wasted talking time for NPC ).

Once again, it's two very different games, two very different worlds, two very different universes. Lotro still feature a lot of 'going forward' energy I think, the game didn't stop with the fall of Sauron, it is now exploring the next, or at least some nexts here and there, and that's fantastic in my view ( and it also explain why I have an a-priori againt the Before the Storms quests, although I'm trying to get past it ). ESO focus on telling different stories, very compartimented, with very little to absolutely no following between them ( which bring the advantage of havving the possibility to play in the order you want, at the disadvantage of having no overall story, but... stories ).

Recently, I thought about the lack of political elements in the recent stories ( aside from some catch-phrase from the Telvanni Magisters ), which is something I really miss. In many ways, the vanilla stories were about highly dysfunctionnal alliances trying not to implode, and quests here and there showing you the problems, and the attempt at finding solutions : the aldmeri cadres academy in Auridon ( can't remember the name ), all the Inheritance Mouvement, the Fullhelm story ( grandpa get kicked aside because he was a hero ), argonian / dunmer feud like the ambush in Mournhold, and other tensions between them, a lot of tensions between orcs, bretons and redguards, and so on. They tell the story of a world where people have made alliances out of necessity, alliances that are causing problems, which they try to resolve - a world living, evolving toward something.

And then, with the coming of the DLC, the world stalled. Nothing new is coming, there is only additions, details, story of things happening here and there, but never happening following that event, because of that decision, as the consequence of that battle / treaty / you name it. The world is dead. Even the very little evolution of High Isle, the peace summit, led to absolutely nothing, and by contrast made the world feeling even more dead for me.

And quite ironically, when the new chapter is going to be a follow-up on past events, the exploration of what the worm cult became after their failure in vanilla, a step forward I would be really welcoming, it also don't feel like a real evolution, but more like... well, necromancy actually ( sorry ! ). They brought back the old foe, hey look they still bad, beat them dead once more, well done ! The fact that it is happening in a remote island is also quite telling.

I still hope that I am mistaken, that the new chapter will show an interesting evolution of the worm cult, from their defeat some years ago toward there rebuilding now, etc. I still hope, but I won't bet on it.

Anyway, @metheglyn I'm gonna take the good news you're bringing. I most likely won't see the newer regions before some time, I started back from old Archet, savouring the vanilla zones ( ah, nostalgia ), laughing nonetheless at some dialogues - but I am looking forward reaching the far south !

And I will still hope for ESO.

Syldras · June 1

Heren wrote: »

There is the books in ESO, true, and there is a good number of additional dialogues, from various NPC usually, which really help to get more informations, but in some ways I feel that you rarely get interesting additional informations, but mostly rehash of the same things you already know ( and I'm not even talking about the 'What are we doing here already ? Remind of who the guy we talked about non-stop since the beginning of the chapter is ? Explain me once again what just happened secondes ago ?'; thinking of that, it's a bit of wasted talking time for NPC ).

Yes, indeed. I noticed regularly that there's a lorebook lying around in the proximity somewhere and if you read it first, the following dialogue will basically be void of new info because it's nothing more than a shorter summary of the book. That's truly a pity as it feels redundant. Why not use the dialogue to convey more info, or the character's perspective, on the book's content or subject? That would surely be more interesting.

Heren wrote: »

Recently, I thought about the lack of political elements in the recent stories ( aside from some catch-phrase from the Telvanni Magisters ), which is something I really miss. In many ways, the vanilla stories were about highly dysfunctionnal alliances trying not to implode, and quests here and there showing you the problems, and the attempt at finding solutions : the aldmeri cadres academy in Auridon ( can't remember the name ), all the Inheritance Mouvement, the Fullhelm story ( grandpa get kicked aside because he was a hero ), argonian / dunmer feud like the ambush in Mournhold, and other tensions between them, a lot of tensions between orcs, bretons and redguards, and so on. They tell the story of a world where people have made alliances out of necessity, alliances that are causing problems, which they try to resolve - a world living, evolving toward something.

I agree. I get that it's a "difficult" subject, but things like these just are a part that makes a fictional world believable and interesting. I'm not against lighthearted quests from time to time, but I personally would also like to see more serious topics. And more "global" topics instead of just someone's very singular personal problem. And most of all I don't want to go search some weird noble's pet bear. - Although, to be honest, that seemed almost ironic. There's severe problems with appearing unknown daedra, there's suddenly some strange new forest, and some Bosmer just build their new settlement there - but the thing the count cares about is his bear. That could be a good characterization of a slightly dense and careless noble alienated from the real problems of his people; I don't think that's what the intention of his quest was, though...

Heren wrote: »

And quite ironically, when the new chapter is going to be a follow-up on past events, the exploration of what the worm cult became after their failure in vanilla, a step forward I would be really welcoming, it also don't feel like a real evolution, but more like... well, necromancy actually ( sorry ! ). They brought back the old foe, hey look they still bad, beat them dead once more, well done ! The fact that it is happening in a remote island is also quite telling.

Fits the statement about the Worm Cult being "easily hateable" and "it's fun to fight super bad baddies who are just horribly bad" or how ever it was worded. Like it doesn't matter if there's a complex background story, as long as you can whack the baddie (not saying it is like that, I don't know as I haven't played on PTS this time; but the wording sounds like that to me, and that doesn't appeal to me personally). From my perspective, that approach is not "fun", but below the possible potential. As I think there are many interesting things that could still be told about Mannimarco, as in background lore, and also about people who crossed his path over the centuries. That would be more interesting to me. Well, we'll see, over the next few days or weeks or so (I'm curious how long it will take to play through all quests in the new area).

metheglyn · June 2

Heren wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

The only other MMO I play is Lord of the Rings Online, and the writing there has not gotten simplified. If anything, as they've introduced areas that aren't as well known, it's gotten more complex as they are attempting to get across the history and lore of the places. Perhaps it helps that they don't have fully voiced npcs--some of the quest text can be quite long and intricate. They also have options sometimes when you talk to some of the npcs where you can get a lot more information from them if you want to, so you can have something like a deep dive on the lore.

I have myself recently get back to lotro, and I would slightly disagree - though I havent played the most recent DLC, so my assesment of the situation is very incomplete ( and I really hope the new zones are interesting ).

I have done Swanfleet, though, and most of the Angle, and... it was slightly disapointing, story wise. Not going into details since this is not lotro forums, but there was some cheap lines here and there, a lack of cohesion between some quests ( and the stories behind them ) and the world as a whole, contradictions sometime, and a case of a very, very forced plot evolution.

I would agree that Swanfleet/Cardolan is not their best work. It's ok, but I didn't feel it added much to the story. But with them getting into the south, there's a lot of new lore and new customs of people to figure out, and it's not all perfect, but I found it very interesting. There are a lot of chances to learn a lot about the people if you want them. But, as you said, this isn't the LotRo forums, so I won't go on about it.

Heren wrote: »

Recently, I thought about the lack of political elements in the recent stories ( aside from some catch-phrase from the Telvanni Magisters ), which is something I really miss. In many ways, the vanilla stories were about highly dysfunctionnal alliances trying not to implode, and quests here and there showing you the problems, and the attempt at finding solutions : the aldmeri cadres academy in Auridon ( can't remember the name ), all the Inheritance Mouvement, the Fullhelm story ( grandpa get kicked aside because he was a hero ), argonian / dunmer feud like the ambush in Mournhold, and other tensions between them, a lot of tensions between orcs, bretons and redguards, and so on. They tell the story of a world where people have made alliances out of necessity, alliances that are causing problems, which they try to resolve - a world living, evolving toward something.

And then, with the coming of the DLC, the world stalled. Nothing new is coming, there is only additions, details, story of things happening here and there, but never happening following that event, because of that decision, as the consequence of that battle / treaty / you name it. The world is dead. Even the very little evolution of High Isle, the peace summit, led to absolutely nothing, and by contrast made the world feeling even more dead for me.

I agree that the base game stories had a lot of interesting smaller tensions and political elements relating to the three alliances that made the game feel like a living world, and I've never been a fan of the "everything is happening in the same year" decision, precisely because we're never moving forward, never having a real resolution to the larger matters.

Heren wrote: »

And quite ironically, when the new chapter is going to be a follow-up on past events, the exploration of what the worm cult became after their failure in vanilla, a step forward I would be really welcoming, it also don't feel like a real evolution, but more like... well, necromancy actually ( sorry ! ). They brought back the old foe, hey look they still bad, beat them dead once more, well done ! The fact that it is happening in a remote island is also quite telling.

I still hope that I am mistaken, that the new chapter will show an interesting evolution of the worm cult, from their defeat some years ago toward there rebuilding now, etc. I still hope, but I won't bet on it.

Yes, I'm glad we're finally moving forward in time, though the resurgence of the Worm Cult wouldn't have been my first choice for a featured story. I will see how it plays out and hope it is a deeper look at the cult and not just, "hey, they're back and they're badder than ever!" Because, I mean, how? I want to know how they rebuilt. I want to know why they think they'll succeed this time.

Heren wrote: »

Anyway, @metheglyn I'm gonna take the good news you're bringing. I most likely won't see the newer regions before some time, I started back from old Archet, savouring the vanilla zones ( ah, nostalgia ), laughing nonetheless at some dialogues - but I am looking forward reaching the far south !

And I will still hope for ESO.

Well, I certainly have been enjoying it! It's a different kind of MMO to ESO, and I really enjoy both. And I, too, have hope for ESO's story.

Syldras · June 2

metheglyn wrote: »

I agree that the base game stories had a lot of interesting smaller tensions and political elements relating to the three alliances that made the game feel like a living world, and I've never been a fan of the "everything is happening in the same year" decision, precisely because we're never moving forward, never having a real resolution to the larger matters.

I really hope that "play in any order" will be given up now, so the world can actually evolve. Even better if they assign different years to the events we saw in the chapters so far.

metheglyn · June 2

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I agree that the base game stories had a lot of interesting smaller tensions and political elements relating to the three alliances that made the game feel like a living world, and I've never been a fan of the "everything is happening in the same year" decision, precisely because we're never moving forward, never having a real resolution to the larger matters.

I really hope that "play in any order" will be given up now, so the world can actually evolve. Even better if they assign different years to the events we saw in the chapters so far.

I would so much like this!

Jusey1 · June 2

In my honest opinion, characters aren't bad or good based on the type that they are but rather how well they are written. A truly evil villain can still be an amazing and well written character, and honestly... To a degree, I miss these kind of villains in general media.

I'm happy that there has been a recent increase of truly evil villains in recent years and wouldn't mind seeing the writers do such a thing in ESO. It's way much better than the overly complicated, and usually poorly written, twist villains we were getting for over an decade straight.

Syldras · June 2

Jusey1 wrote: »

In my honest opinion, characters aren't bad or good based on the type that they are but rather how well they are written.

I think that's consensus.

Jusey1 wrote: »

A truly evil villain can still be an amazing and well written character, and honestly... To a degree, I miss these kind of villains in general media.
I'm happy that there has been a recent increase of truly evil villains in recent years and wouldn't mind seeing the writers do such a thing in ESO. It's way much better than the overly complicated, and usually poorly written, twist villains we were getting for over an decade straight.

I'm curious: What's the appeal of a "truly evil" character? Isn't that a little one-sided?

(Let's cast aside for now that I don't even believe there's a universal idea of what "true evil" means; but we already had that discussion about how morals are very different from culture to culture).

Heren · June 2

Syldras wrote: »

Yes, indeed. I noticed regularly that there's a lorebook lying around in the proximity somewhere and if you read it first, the following dialogue will basically be void of new info because it's nothing more than a shorter summary of the book. That's truly a pity as it feels redundant. Why not use the dialogue to convey more info, or the character's perspective, on the book's content or subject? That would surely be more interesting.

Damn, you made me remember these moments where in a middle of a quest you read a book because hey, it's useful to keep yourself informed, and then you just know everything about the quest and it's ending - worse, sometime you have crucial informations you just can't mention to the NPC, like you know there will be an ambush at A but still the NPC want to go to A, and it's just such a non-sense to make this information available to the player if you can't use it ( far from an ESO specific issue, there was at least a situation of that type in lotro that really saddened me ).

On the topic of villains, I liked the redguard leader of the new Grey Host ( can't remember his name sorry ). The reasons for him becoming a vampire in the first place were... sure, why not, but I really liked his will to 'save' the fallen members of the grey host from Molag Bal. It was fully understandable, as the worst part of being a vampire is clearly that, no matter how you became one, no matter your convictions, you will belong to Molag Bal in the end ( funnily enough, it does create some perverse incentive for vampires to keep 'living' on forever, at any cost; wouldn't be surprising if Molag Bal envisaged that 'motivation' for vampires ).

And yet, the actions of the redguard were clearly wrong, and while I was sorry for him and it's fellow vampires of the grey host ( to some degree, given the actions of the original grey host ), I just couldn't let him do what he wanted to do, for it was absolutely evil. Not some evilness for the sake of evilness, but a more relatable evilness, treating other being as disposable ressources for your own ends. I understand that in his view, the harrowing storms and the killing of people were necessary for bringing back vampire's souls, but even if it was for bringing 'better' souls ( all right it's gonna be hard to find some good souls in Tamriel ), it would have still be wrong.

I do regret that, given the structure of release of ESO chapters the end was really short, and his backplan was treated somehow quickly, as it was quite interesting and could have open some possibilities for vampires to make there own pseudo-daedric realm, some kind of haven away from Molag Bal, but there I somehow guess ZOS just can't write too far away from what we see in the other Elder Scrolls games ( which is certainly another problem for the writting of ESO, sadly ).

Also, it's really interesting to note that the villains of the vanilla game were, in many ways, the other alliances - even if, as a player, you never take part in the offensives actions of your alliance ( aside from Cyrodiil / Imperial city, but it's different ), you're alway defending your own alliance, your homeland, your people, against 'the others'. It's especially true as an EP player, where a lot of threats you face during the base game are from other alliances exclusively ( all of the prologue, Bleackrock / Welcome to the saltrice fields, a good part of Stonefalls, and the rest there is the direct consequences of the Daggerfall attacks, most if not all of Shadowfen ), and their actions are particularly ruthless, and sometime straight evil - the kind of wickedness you would expect frome the Worm Cult itself.

And for me, that directly lead to another structural problem of ESO storytelling : it's one-dimensional, one-sided, in the way you alway experiment event, and do things, as a generic character. In the vanilla game, depending on the regions, it is ( mostly ) as a member of one alliance or the other ( possibly some kind of more independant member of these alliances, leaning more on doing goods and defending people rather than promoting the interest of your alliance ), latter in the vanilla game ( and also throughout the Prophet quests ) you play as the savior of the world, and then in the DLC you mostly play as the savior of the world ( Orsinium, Thieves guild, Dark brotherhood and Murkmire being, in various degrees, exceptions ). You ( almost ) never play as a member of your faction, but just as the generic savior of the world.

I don't know if it's a narrative choice, or a more general choice for the game ( having to write two, three different versions of various questlines, and also adapting a lot of things to reflect more the appartenance of the PC to a specific faction, would most likely be more ressources consuming ), but the consequence is that you play a character belonging to a faction, and aside from the vanilla game you never feel that you belong to a faction, because you never do things to help your faction. Once again, this lead to a fragmented, highly compartimented world, where you really struggle to find a sense of coherence and continuity, and sadly ( for me at least ) this is most likely never gonna change.

And I would be fine if, story-wise, there was some kind of peace treaty between the alliances. I would have been delighted to see High Isle leading to a real peace summit, calling for even a limited truth, but nothing of that kind happened, and soon enough we were dealing with another 'the world is going to be destroyed !' situation.

And the paradox is still going on, playing as the member of a specific faction, while never really feeling that you belong to a specific faction. You're just a generic good guy, doing good things. Huzzah.

Once again, I guess chapters like the coming one, where you are in a rather neutral environement, are more coherent with this issue in mind - in some ways at least. In the vanilla game we see each factions deploying a lot of efforts, and ressources, to establish bridgeheads on various location in the territories of their ennemies, or at least launching deep incursions, and then - nothing. And while some DLC, like Blackwood, try to offer some explanations, other just shrug the issue off - if no one talk of it, there's no issue, right ? Pity, I think the AD taking controle of Anvil would really help secure Bosmer lands, but apparently no.

Anyway.

colossalvoids · June 2

Wonder if the new "chapter" brings us closer to taking the universe more seriously again (so what, base game up until Vvardenfell?) or we're going back to the usual making everything a mandatory comic relief.

Syldras · June 2

I just, a few seconds ago, set my foot on the new island. Approached the quest start character in front of the wayshrine. He tells me the Order of the Black Worm is pestering the island of Solstice.

The only dialogue option I have is to ask who/what that order is.

So much for that.

(Will write more later).

mdjessup4906 · June 2

Syldras wrote: »

I just, a few seconds ago, set my foot on the new island. Approached the quest start character in front of the wayshrine. He tells me the Order of the Black Worm is pestering the island of Solstice.

The only dialogue option I have is to ask who/what that order is.

So much for that.

(Will write more later).

Plz tell me that your on a new char thats never done the mq.

Syldras · June 2

mdjessup4906 wrote: »

Plz tell me that your on a new char thats never done the mq.

No, I'm playing my main who, over 9 years, did all story content, base game as well as all chapters and other dlcs, and the new prologue, too.

mdjessup4906 · June 2

That is so sad. Vestige TBI is real.

ZigoSid · June 2

Same here. Main character, 11 years old, have done all the story content.

Arrive at Solstice. First choice, only one choice : "LOL WHAT'S THE WORM CULT ?"

Second choice, only one choice too : "LOL WHAT'S THE STIRK FELLOWHSIP ?"

And when I finally have 3 choices, I can say that I'm with Stirk, even if 3 seconds before it seemed I didn't know what it was.

Looks like a bug. But if it's not, that's the worst written content ever

And the main dialogues right after that, mentioning Gabrielle, the NPCs were on repeat mode ...

"Gabrielle, she's in charge now because you know, Galerion has been captured."

Blablablabla. Then a second character :

"Gabrielle, she's in charge now because you know, Galerion has been captured."

Yeah thank you, I think I've understand that. I was there mate.

Seriously

Syldras · June 2

I honestly just replied "Goodbye." and left Solstice again. I'm sitting on a bench in Telvanni Peninsula now, not sure whether to laugh or to cry.

metheglyn · June 2

Well this is disappointing news. I haven't gone to Solstice yet because I don't like first-day energy for new content.

Syldras · June 2

Okay, I tried it another time. After having to ask what the Worm Cult is and what the Stirk Fellowship is, I am allowed to ask what the Writhing Wall is. Altmer tells me "Look to the East" - while pointing North

Syldras · June 2

Honestly, every dialogue part so far made me laugh. It continued immediately after the obvious problem the Altmer had in terms of orientation - where he suddenly - I play in German - called the Writhing Wall "schwindende Mauer" instead of "windende Mauer". As an explanation:

windende Mauer = writhing wall
schwindende Mauer = shrinking wall

...

metheglyn · June 2

Syldras wrote: »

Honestly, every dialogue part so far made me laugh. It continued immediately after the obvious problem the Altmer had in terms of orientation - where he suddenly - I play in German - called the Writhing Wall "schwindende Mauer" instead of "windende Mauer". As an explanation:

windende Mauer = writhing wall
schwindende Mauer = shrinking wall

...

Maybe he was just hopefully projecting.

Syldras · June 2

ZigoSid wrote: »

Second choice, only one choice too : "LOL WHAT'S THE STIRK FELLOWHSIP ?"
And when I finally have 3 choices, I can say that I'm with Stirk, even if 3 seconds before it seemed I didn't know what it was.
Looks like a bug. But if it's not, that's the worst written content ever

And even worse: When you say you're part of the Stirk Fellowship and ask if you missed something in the meantime, that guy will give you a very short summary of the prologue (x was killed, y was kidnapped, Fellowship was founded).

At the same time he mentions "the Three Queens" in dialogue, and that people usually avoided Solstice for many centuries because they thought the island was cursed - Why can't I ask anything about that? These would be much more interesting things than to ask what the Worm Cult is!

Syldras · June 2

Wait, now I get it: The island is cursed! People's minds are so messed up by dark magic that they're unable to have a meaningful conversation.

metheglyn · June 2

Syldras wrote: »

Wait, now I get it: The island is cursed! People's minds are so messed up by dark magic that they're unable to have a meaningful conversation.

Lol!

Ok, so I just went and talked to Midconjurer Mirmal (after strolling along the docks for a bit, looking around) and the conversation is as unfortunate as described.

The only thing I could give a slight pass to is when he tells us about the Order of the Black Worm (and our only response option is to say: Order of the Black Worm?) because then he says, "You know them as the Worm Cult." So, apparently the Vestige can't make the connection between the new name and the old, and Mirmal is just kindly filling us in. It's still odd, because if he knows we know them as the Worm Cult, why doesn't he just say Worm Cult?

But, I decided my Vestige was repeating (in the form of a question) everything Mirmal said because he was testing to see if Mirmal really knew what he was talking about, or was trying to mislead the ever-helpful (and on time) Vestige.

Syldras · June 2

metheglyn wrote: »

The only thing I could give a slight pass to is when he tells us about the Order of the Black Worm (and our only response option is to say: Order of the Black Worm?) because then he says, "You know them as the Worm Cult." So, apparently the Vestige can't make the connection between the new name and the old, and Mirmal is just kindly filling us in. It's still odd, because if he knows we know them as the Worm Cult, why doesn't he just say Worm Cult?

It's no new name, but has already been used in lorebooks in the base game:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Necromancy_in_Modern_Tamriel
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Guild_Memo_on_Soul-Trapping
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:The_Order_of_the_Black_Worm
Maybe also in dialogues, but I won't check that now. Maybe later.

And of course I fully understand that mistakes happen. That's human. I'm not bothered by a typo or a translation mistake once in a while (even if I'd think that there's some quality control that minimizes that). But if one short dialogue is full of mistakes and all kinds of oddness... and it's even the very first conversation you have in a new story...

Anyway. Tea time! Will write more later.

ZigoSid · June 2

Syldras wrote: »

ZigoSid wrote: »

Second choice, only one choice too : "LOL WHAT'S THE STIRK FELLOWHSIP ?"
And when I finally have 3 choices, I can say that I'm with Stirk, even if 3 seconds before it seemed I didn't know what it was.
Looks like a bug. But if it's not, that's the worst written content ever

And even worse: When you say you're part of the Stirk Fellowship and ask if you missed something in the meantime, that guy will give you a very short summary of the prologue (x was killed, y was kidnapped, Fellowship was founded).

At the same time he mentions "the Three Queens" in dialogue, and that people usually avoided Solstice for many centuries because they thought the island was cursed - Why can't I ask anything about that? These would be much more interesting things than to ask what the Worm Cult is!

Yep and then Prince Azah do the exact same summary 2 minute later, 10 meters away form there xD

metheglyn · June 2

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

The only thing I could give a slight pass to is when he tells us about the Order of the Black Worm (and our only response option is to say: Order of the Black Worm?) because then he says, "You know them as the Worm Cult." So, apparently the Vestige can't make the connection between the new name and the old, and Mirmal is just kindly filling us in. It's still odd, because if he knows we know them as the Worm Cult, why doesn't he just say Worm Cult?

It's no new name, but has already been used in lorebooks in the base game:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Necromancy_in_Modern_Tamriel
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Guild_Memo_on_Soul-Trapping
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:The_Order_of_the_Black_Worm
Maybe also in dialogues, but I won't check that now. Maybe later.

And of course I fully understand that mistakes happen. That's human. I'm not bothered by a typo or a translation mistake once in a while (even if I'd think that there's some quality control that minimizes that). But if one short dialogue is full of mistakes and all kinds of oddness... and it's even the very first conversation you have in a new story...

Anyway. Tea time! Will write more later.

Ok, well, I rescind the slight pass I earlier gave the conversation.

I really wish they had given us another dialogue option, so when he talks about the Order of the Black Worm, we could say something like, "That's why I'm here; what's the plan?" Just something so it doesn't seem like we haven't been paying any attention to anything anyone ever told us.