The Weaponization of The Report System Needs To Stop

RealLoveBVB · May 4

MJallday wrote: »

I’ll be honest . If ZOS didn’t think it was ok, then it shouldn’t be allowed in the game. Theres plenty they can do code wise to stop people crouching within 2m of another player - but they don’t

So as long as they allow it, its fair game as far as I’m
Concerned

How exactly would you code it, without preventing players from actually go in stealth?
It would cost them way to many resources to code something just to prevent teabagging. It's easier for them to just go through player reports.

WaywardArgonian · May 4

Decimus wrote: »

Wouldn't you say that people acting based on what ZOS says is ok shouldn't be getting banned, and if they are clarification on this should be warranted? It's hard for people to play by the rules if the rules are in fact not what are officially stated.

I agree with the principle of this, but we have seen many times that this is not the case and that there is a discrepancy between what is communicated here and what is/isn't actioned upon in-game.

It's anyone's guess whether this stems from miscommunication between different departments (I would assume that the ZOS representatives explaining the rules on this forum are not the ones handling day-to-day reports), or they have simply overburdened the support team by requiring them to investigate the full context of every report they get. Again, I think the solution here is to have clearer rules of what is/isn't allowed regardless of context. As we've seen, context can be manipulated, and it's this policy that has worsened the issue of players weaponizing the support system to try and get rid of their opps.

Until more clarity is given, I would strongly advise people, especially if they are streamers, to not engage in any behavior that could be construed as a violation of TOS. Whether it is teabagging, whispering insults (even if they are in response to someone being abusive), or even something as innocuous as making a joke in zone chat about cooperating with the enemy. As long as there is a disconnect between what should be against the rules and what is actually being treated as a violation, it's just not worth taking risks.

Oblivion_Protocol · May 4

MJallday wrote: »

I’ll be honest . If ZOS didn’t think it was ok, then it shouldn’t be allowed in the game. Theres plenty they can do code wise to stop people crouching within 2m of another player - but they don’t

So as long as they allow it, its fair game as far as I’m Concerned

Here’s the problem with that. Let’s say ZOS puts in a code that stops a player from crouching within 2m of a dead player. People will just emote over the corpse. They’ll find the most offensive looking emote they can, and everyone will perform it in place of teabagging. It’s not about the action, but the mentality behind the action.

To give a poignant example, in Star Wars: The Old Republic, there was a holographic banner that players could set up. It appeared with loud explosions and was similar to the mementos we have here. In PvP, players would set up banners over players they killed, because there’s no crouch mechanic in the game, so it was their version of teabagging.

A debate, similar to this one, started up, and devs got complaints, again, similar to what’s happening here. The SWTOR devs eventually responded by completely removing the banner from the game. But there was a problem.

The banner wasn’t some free emote or prop you got for completing an easy PvE quest. It was a reward from scoring a certain amount of points in early seasons of Ranked PvP. So now, competitive PvP players who never bannered anyone lost their hard-earned reward because the devs prioritized taking something away from everyone rather than finding a way to punish individual behaviors.

As you could imagine, a lot of folks left the game over it. To make matters worse, people just took to using the /spit emote or jumping on corpses when they wanted to taunt dead players, so the problem wasn’t even solved.

So I’m not sure what the solution to the teabagging issue would be. But I can say from experience that it’s not this.

Unfadingsilence · May 4

Decimus wrote: »

Hello!

Writing this post because at this point things are getting a little bit ridiculous.

Today a smaller ESO streamer got permanently banned simply for jumping on the corpse of someone who died after running after him the whole battleground. The same person did not ask him to stop doing anything and is well known for tbagging/writing toxic whispers to other players, yet reported the smaller ESO streamer for "tbagging", for which he was promptly banned a day later.

Problem? No tbagging occurred, this was all broadcasted live on Twitch and myself as well as anyone else watching could see no tbagging happening.

Going further back a week or two, there was another player who was also reported for something written in guild chat by most likely the same person as in previous case (since they're in the same guild and this player has a history of behaving like this). Here's what was written, straight from the e-mail he got:

2025-04-05 18:07:27 ngl i still tbag just dont do it after warning

Here is the official policy for "tbagging": https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8286782/#Comment_8286782

So no tbagging even occurred and the person was simply banned for stating the official policy on a guild chat that someone whom he had killed in PvP was reading.

If we go further back a month or two, another streamer was banned for something said over a year ago on his stream... said streamer understandably received an e-mail saying the ban was issued in error and that it wouldn't be a strike on the account.

...but an apology isn't really enough if people keep weaponizing the reporting system like this.

I'd like to open this discussion and (hopefully) help ZOS realize how badly this affects the PvP community when people can just fabricate things, claim something and get someone banned for things they demonstrably didn't do.

I myself was permanently banned last month for " Stream Sniping" yet I myself was streaming the whole time and definitely not watching anyone else streaming since that would just be odd playing ESO and streaming but also watching someone else stream.... the perma ban was lifted after I was able to talk to a real person and not just get a copy past auto message back but after that it makes me not even want to use zone chat to call groups out or anything while in pvp

MJallday · May 4

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

I’ll be honest . If ZOS didn’t think it was ok, then it shouldn’t be allowed in the game. Theres plenty they can do code wise to stop people crouching within 2m of another player - but they don’t

So as long as they allow it, its fair game as far as I’m
Concerned

How exactly would you code it, without preventing players from actually go in stealth?
It would cost them way too many resources to code something just to prevent teabagging. It's easier for them to just go through player reports.

If crouch = press and distance from another player <2m, don’t enable crouch

It’s not hard to code

cptscotty · May 4

Why is any code needed for people who are getting offended by crouching? I mean...at what point do we stop catering to that kind of mentality? Whats next? People are upset over jumping? Upset with you wearing certain colors?

This game sends mixed signals about the level of maturity expected from its audience when there are emotes called "flip the bird".

RealLoveBVB · May 4

MJallday wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

I’ll be honest . If ZOS didn’t think it was ok, then it shouldn’t be allowed in the game. Theres plenty they can do code wise to stop people crouching within 2m of another player - but they don’t

So as long as they allow it, its fair game as far as I’m
Concerned

How exactly would you code it, without preventing players from actually go in stealth?
It would cost them way too many resources to code something just to prevent teabagging. It's easier for them to just go through player reports.

If crouch = press and distance from another player <2m, don’t enable crouch

It’s not hard to code

That wouldn't be hard to code, because it's just stupid.

If a melee ganker stabs someone, they usually go in sneak right away. So they need to go on distance first, that they can sneak again...

Or what about this:

You are not allowed to sneak at all then?

DeadlySerious · May 4

Is it really that hard to just show basic courtesy and respect for other players? Really?

Everyone knows that teabagging is, by definition, disrespectful toxic behavior. Nobody needs to be told this by another player or through moderation to know this to be the case. Those defending the behavior are just making excuses to behave in a fashion they know to be toxic and disrespectful.

Just man up and treat others with respect even if they don't do the same and the gaming environment will be a lot more inviting to others. The same goes for dealing with people in real life. Just be kind and respectful. It's really simple. If nothing else it will take one the main arguments away from those PvE players that say they won't PvP because it's just too toxic.

DeadlySerious · May 4

cptscotty wrote: »

Why is any code needed for people who are getting offended by crouching? I mean...at what point do we stop catering to that kind of mentality? Whats next? People are upset over jumping? Upset with you wearing certain colors?

This game sends mixed signals about the level of maturity expected from its audience when there are emotes called "flip the bird".

Teabagging is not just crouching one time. Everyone knows the difference between a crouch and a teabag.

People need to stop making excuses for bad behavior, both in and outside of the game.

cptscotty · May 4

.

DeadlySerious wrote: »

cptscotty wrote: »

Why is any code needed for people who are getting offended by crouching? I mean...at what point do we stop catering to that kind of mentality? Whats next? People are upset over jumping? Upset with you wearing certain colors?

This game sends mixed signals about the level of maturity expected from its audience when there are emotes called "flip the bird".

Teabagging is not just crouching one time. Everyone knows the difference between a crouch and a teabag.

People need to stop making excuses for bad behavior, both in and outside of the game.

The actions taken after killing someone in game are bad behavior but not the action of killing someone? Seems like people are really complaining about another thing because they dont want to complain about the thing that really upsets them because they are afraid of how it will look. Means we will never actually fix the problem because its just being deflected.

MJallday · May 4

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

I’ll be honest . If ZOS didn’t think it was ok, then it shouldn’t be allowed in the game. Theres plenty they can do code wise to stop people crouching within 2m of another player - but they don’t

So as long as they allow it, its fair game as far as I’m
Concerned

How exactly would you code it, without preventing players from actually go in stealth?
It would cost them way too many resources to code something just to prevent teabagging. It's easier for them to just go through player reports.

If crouch = press and distance from another player <2m, don’t enable crouch

It’s not hard to code

That wouldn't be hard to code, because it's just stupid.

If a melee ganker stabs someone, they usually go in sneak right away. So they need to go on distance first, that they can sneak again...

Or what about this:

You are not allowed to sneak at all then?

They’d be more than 2m away then .

Did you not read the post?

FeedbackOnly · May 5

Destai wrote: »

Personally, I don't see why teabagging itself is so offensive. I don't. I don't consent to being killed in PVP, I don't consent to having curses and DOTs and whatever put on me. I don't see how it's any worse. I find mudballs to be worse. Just my perspective, not entertaining counterpoints.

There also seems to be a big disconnect between what CMs are saying is permissible, and what actually gets actioned by CS. I think that's a problem that needs to be solved, and quickly, because things like this cost ZOS customers.

I really limit my interactions. No PVP, no text chat in guild chat. It's not safe.

I find it gross and not okay to do on a woman player but I say no to AI enforcement

Xorious · May 5

Agreed. There seems to be a rift of some sort between what CMs are saying and CS is doing. My account was suspended for 3 days last year for having a lvl 5 alt, still in the fyre isle start zone, named "Gypsii". Never a warning or anything, never made it out of the start zone.. and the whole time I only saw 3 other players. I was reported because it was "offensive", and they really had to stretch their logic to justify a 3 day suspension on someone whos played since beta and never been in trouble.

Because of that incident I'm not sure if it's solely the players "weaponizing the reporting system" that's to blame, or the CS dept just playing it safe to satisfy what has to be a pile of crap they get daily, and just powering through it all to get something done on everything and dealing with mistakes later.. then using the 72 hour email response system as a cusion.

In the end, the problem is on both ends, and people are always going to be people

umagon · May 5

The easiest solution would be adding an option under game play to disable emotes and crouch animations while in pvp areas. Then add a check box to the names in the ignore list that turns off those animations. People who are offended by those animations could then just disable them globally or just on certain players.

The code is kind of already there, like when other players are doing their survey harvesting and you can’t see their harvesting animations. They just have to make it so the client can choose ignore specific animation state changes.

frogthroat · May 5

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

So a streamer who acts bad, is seen as a bad advertising for the company, so a harsher punishment sounds logic for me, as they possibly prevent game purchases.

I keep a strict separation between fans/customers/players and company owned advertisement. Paid players who have a contract fall into latter. They are corporate products. I do not trust what corporations say about their own products because their goal is to sell.

So for me unpaid players, even if they behave badly, are more honest. That gives a more honest and realistic picture of the game.

If a game studio would start to ban these players, that would be the biggest advertisement to not get the game. To quote Tyrion Lannister in The Clash of Kings: "When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say."

I want to see the best players stream. And I want the worst behaviour streamed. Then I know what it takes to be on the top. And I see what is the worst I can expect. If one side is missing, there is something suspicious going on. I do not trust a game where bad acting streamers have been removed. Cheaters, for sure, but those who are not the most gentlemanly - if they are missing the company is hiding something.

DeadlySerious wrote: »

Is it really that hard to just show basic courtesy and respect for other players? Really?

Unfortunately, yes. We are talking about masses. Controlling masses is difficult. If you figure out how to get everyone be courteous and respectful towards others all the time in this game, please write your findings to the UN. They will surely appreciate a method how to achieve world peace.

It's a beautiful idea and I would like if that would happen. Alas, we are talking about people. We are different. And we behave differently based on our mood so even within one player there is variation.

Markytous · May 5

Two things. 1.) It is not a crime to activate my Sentry Set 5pc effect after defeating you. 2.) I have suffered a 3-day suspension because a (very small) "content creator" harassed me in the chat multiple times and reported me. I had previously asked in Zone Chat if that behavior happened to them also by the same player and the system must have identified that I typed their name in it. "Name&Shame Policy"!! So, since that player was on the a different faction obviously the implication is that they'd never see the message to get their feelings hurt at all but it wasn't even an offensive message. That behavior is Baiting/Trolling and is an obvious attempt (with moderate success) to weaponize the Report System/TOS. It also shows "content creator" privileges or "buddy buddy" phenomenon between said "creators" and ZOS. I use quotes because yeah... they get like 50 views an upload come on. Theres no reason they should get more special treatment over us non-uploading players.