What is with the VR stat scaling??

Halrloprillalar · May 2014

I am legitimately confounded by the system of stat conversion in this game.

Currently, itemization and build synergy is a guesswork game. I assume I do more spell damage if I dump everything possible into magika, but at what point is the DR taking over? Is it from the attribute perspective, the max stat perspective, or the fact that there is literally currently no way to increase spell damage other than jewelry enchants (which are mediocre at best)?

Like really, please explain why you essentially herd everyone towards weapon-based abilities in end-game via a lack of any way to effectively build spell damage as you level up.

Here's is a starting list of things that need clarification:

I would like to know the numbers for spell damage to actual class ability number contribution (coefficients, if you will).
I would like to know the attribute conversion to damage bonus (spell/weapon for magika/stam).
I would like to know why my apparent spellpower goes down with VR levels (even as my max magika increases ever so slightly to raised caps), resulting in lower damage numbers on skills (everything else being equal)... Can you at least give us a way to increase our attributes in VR then?
I would like to know how MAX stat affects these numbers (and why?).
Why are all mundus stones except Thief (which seems to be not working properly for spell crit) so terrible and scale so poorly?
What are actual % values for defensive stats? Like if I have 1.5k armor vs. 2k armor, what actual DR does that correlate to (same with spell resist).

As much as I like to 'immerse' and focus on 'the game, not the UI', as a semi-hardcore player, I enjoy know exactly what to look for and how to min max my character. That is what draws me to these kinds of games. Being in the dark about so many things results in nothing but frustration for me (and likely many others).

And for the love of Tamriel.... PLEASE GIVE US SOME TEST DUMMIES. Or even just one. I don't want to have to find large herds of bears to kill every time I want to test out something.

khele23eb17_ESO · May 2014

No... because then youd see how messed up things really are... Im not convinced they themselves know how half the things they made work

Wifeaggro13 · May 2014

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

I am legitimately confounded by the system of stat conversion in this game.

Currently, itemization and build synergy is a guesswork game. I assume I do more spell damage if I dump everything possible into magika, but at what point is the DR taking over? Is it from the attribute perspective, the max stat perspective, or the fact that there is literally currently no way to increase spell damage other than jewelry enchants (which are mediocre at best)?

Like really, please explain why you essentially herd everyone towards weapon-based abilities in end-game via a lack of any way to effectively build spell damage as you level up.

Here's is a starting list of things that need clarification:
I would like to know the numbers for spell damage to actual class ability number contribution (coefficients, if you will).

I would like to know the attribute conversion to damage bonus (spell/weapon for magika/stam).

I would like to know why my apparent spellpower goes down with VR levels (even as my max magika increases ever so slightly to raised caps), resulting in lower damage numbers on skills (everything else being equal)... Can you at least give us a way to increase our attributes in VR then?

I would like to know how MAX stat affects these numbers (and why?).

Why are all mundus stones except Thief (which seems to be not working properly for spell crit) so terrible and scale so poorly?

What are actual % values for defensive stats? Like if I have 1.5k armor vs. 2k armor, what actual DR does that correlate to (same with spell resist).

As much as I like to 'immerse' and focus on 'the game, not the UI', as a semi-hardcore player, I enjoy know exactly what to look for and how to min max my character. That is what draws me to these kinds of games. Being in the dark about so many things results in nothing but frustration for me (and likely many others).

And for the love of Tamriel.... PLEASE GIVE US SOME TEST DUMMIES. Or even just one. I don't want to have to find large herds of bears to kill every time I want to test out something.

All of it is limited oon the feedback because its so damn imbalanced they don't want you to know in all honesty. its why the API is limited . recount and CLS has at least given us the ability to compare with each other . Across the board it seems melee skills need an increase. there is absolutely no useful information in your chr sheet. and there are add on's where you can see individual brake downs ,but there is no feed back on percentages on any of the numbers . If your a number cruncher and stat theory crafter they have blinded you. In all honesty they probably dont have it figured out there are so many combinations people are coming up with builds they never intended

Andy22 · May 2014

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

I would like to know the numbers for spell damage to actual class ability number contribution (coefficients, if you will).

ESO Skill Coefficients

I would like to know the attribute conversion to damage bonus (spell/weapon for magika/stam).
I would like to know how MAX stat affects these numbers (and why?).

1/20

class_skill_tooltip_dmg = (max_magicka / 20 + spell_dmg) * skill_coef * rank_coef

weapon "skills" damage tooltip:

wpn_skill_tooltip_dmg = (max_stamina / 20 + wpn_dmg / 1.9) * skill_coef * rank_coef

NOTE: SkillCoef is a combination of the actual Coef (avg. 0.3-3.0) and the SkillRank coef (1.01-1.06), using just the listed coef works well enough.

Why are all mundus stones except Thief (which seems to be not working properly for spell crit) so terrible and scale so poorly?

"MMO" -> "Money cost" and "We can get it balanced/fully working later." mentality.

What are actual % values for defensive stats? Like if I have 1.5k armor vs. 2k armor, what actual DR does that correlate to (same with spell resist).

armor/sr Mitigation %

=MIN((6+1.02*Armor)/(4600+0.2876*Armor);50%)

NOTE: If a value becomes orange/overcharged u enter DR starting at 50% efficiency up to 15%. I recommend SoftcapInfo addon.

PS: All credit goes to the great guys (evedgebah, mystborn) over at tamrielfoundry.com

Slantasiam · May 2014

there are some meds for all this ocd up in here ..... ya big disadvantage to number crunchers ..they didn't even feel a need to put resists on your char sheet what kind of game gives you resists but then doesn't list or show them..on thief stone that thing is just wrong it gives no crit but the mundus stone gear does off it. however that only goes so far before it breaks too after the 5th piece of divine gear it failed to give me the other 6 2/3 % for the last 2 pieces one day it gave me 3% apparently by mistake then took it away the next day figuring out how you wish to build a char and its gear is a lost cause here...and YES GIVE ME A FRIGGEN TEST DUMMY!

Wifeaggro13 · May 2014

Slantasiam wrote: »

there are some meds for all this ocd up in here ..... ya big disadvantage to number crunchers ..they didn't even feel a need to put resists on your char sheet what kind of game gives you resists but then doesn't list or show them..on thief stone that thing is just wrong it gives no crit but the mundus stone gear does off it. however that only goes so far before it breaks too after the 5th piece of divine gear it failed to give me the other 6 2/3 % for the last 2 pieces one day it gave me 3% apparently by mistake then took it away the next day figuring out how you wish to build a char and its gear is a lost cause here...and YES GIVE ME A FRIGGEN TEST DUMMY!

There is a Zam add on that breaks down your resistance by element and effect IE poison or disease . All your offensive and defensive stats as well. the problem there are no percentages so when you increase a stat you don't see how much it actually in creases its just a number going up. All this stuff is restricted for a reason. they don't want you knowing how imbalanced it is until they can fix it.

vicNBitis · May 2014

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

All this stuff is restricted for a reason. they don't want you knowing how imbalanced it is until they can fix it.

Sadly, I'm starting to agree. The timing was pretty suspect removing that functionality just prior to release. Now it makes sense somewhat. Or it could just be a coincidence. I guess. Maybe.

Halrloprillalar · May 2014

Andy22 wrote: »

ESO Skill Coefficients

Dem silver bolts oO

Halrloprillalar · May 2014

Andy22 wrote: »

Spelldamage tooltip:

=TRUNC(TRUNC((max. Magicka /20)*SkillCoef)+TRUNC((LEVEL*1.5+4.5))*SkillCoef;0)

But that doesn't make sense... spellpower is being based on a skill coefficient? I'm confused.

Spellpower is like weapon damage but in magika terms, right? So SKILLS should use it as a coefficient, not the other way around?

Andy22 · May 2014

see below

Halrloprillalar · May 2014

oh i see, that makes sense. But why does my spellpower go down in VR levels??? this doesn't seem logical. And how does spellpower factor into spelldamage??
If spelldamage is only affected by max magika... what is the point of spellpower?

Comaetilico · May 2014

there is only a little error in the above formula...

Halrloprillalar wrote: »
class "skills" damage tooltip:
=TRUNC(TRUNC((max. Magicka /20)*SkillCoef)+TRUNC((LEVEL*1.5+4.5))*SkillCoef;0)

that formula is right but only take into account Spell power derived from level (that is the "level*1.5+4.5") just swap this with actual "Spell power" value and you have the right formula ^^

using the posted formula is a bit misleading for thsoe that don't know where those number came from (and actuly can turn wrong when you add up buff or item that increase spell damage)

also... rank in a skill futher increase the skill efficency by:

rank 2 = 1%
rank 3 = 2%
rank 4 = 3%
Morph rank 2 = 4%
Morph rank 3 = 5%
Morph rank 4 = 6%

with % based on the rank 1 value... so it actualy is a 1% more damage/healing/shield/buff for each rank after first except for morph rank 1 (that add the new effect of the morph rather than enhancing the value of the base skill)

Andy22 · May 2014

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

oh i see, that makes sense. But why does my spellpower go down in VR levels???

thx @Comaetilico, i replaced it with the more understandable versions. U can check the more complex version here: tamrielfoundry.com/topic/weapon-and-skill-damage-coefficients/

Halrloprillalar · May 2014

I think I know where that number change came from so it all makes sense now. Thanks a lot for the info!