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Being an Argonian/Khajiit and not knowing your own language

WeerW3ir
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Consider this. You have an argonian character, or a khajiit. You do your adventuring in your HOMELANDS. Characters/Questgivers etc. so basicly the locals talking and using local language and words and you have no idea what are talking about. They have to explain the word to you endless times because you not learned it even after years in the game and story, not even mentioning that you should actually KNOW your own racial language. WHY?
  • Lugaldu
    Lugaldu
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    Why should this only apply to Argonians and Khajiit? We have so many different regions and if you were to look at it "realistically" then all ESO races would have their own language and many local dialects as well.
  • NotaDaedraWorshipper
    NotaDaedraWorshipper
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    Not every khajiit and argonian are born in Elsweyr/Black Marsh, and don't know their race's language or culture.

    This is an issue for all the races, because there's no option for us to give a background like home province to our characters, so our race is pretty much "vestige", who does not know much.
    [Lie] Of course! I don't even worship Daedra!
  • WeerW3ir
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    Lugaldu wrote: »
    Why should this only apply to Argonians and Khajiit? We have so many different regions and if you were to look at it "realistically" then all ESO races would have their own language and many local dialects as well.

    i mentioned them because the last stories were heavily based around them. Exept Skyrim.
  • WeerW3ir
    WeerW3ir
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    Not every khajiit and argonian are born in Elsweyr/Black Marsh, and don't know their race's language or culture.

    This is an issue for all the races, because there's no option for us to give a background like home province to our characters, so our race is pretty much "vestige", who does not know much.

    That dosent explain why you cannot LEARN IT.
  • Treeshka
    Treeshka
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    Honestly if i were you, for role play purposes i find other people to role play. I mean you can not get fully immersed with mixing in game mechanics and quests. It is like every alien talking English in movies.
    Edited by Treeshka on July 1, 2021 3:16PM
  • Phanex
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    My best guess is that the creators are trying to save time/money/resources and limit the voice acting, etc. to keep the game going.

    As other say its not just those two races but also the others, PLUS Vampires and ww. I mean I'm stage 4 vamp and another vamp is like, your not a vamp you don't know what I'm going through..

    I just look it as I'm a reborn husk of *insert race* from coldharbor and I have no memory of my previous life or culture. So, I'm basically neutral in the War, and people see me as a souless husk, not as a bret vampire, or an orc ww. /shrug
  • zelaminator
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    I live in a very small country.. like it would only take 6 hours to drive diagonally across.. but if I put together 2 persons, 1 from each end, they would not be able to understand half of what the other person said.. dialects matter
  • tomofhyrule
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    This is more of a gameplay/story separation thing that's not handled as elegantly as it could be.

    People have mentioned this before that their character can come off as functionally brain dead at times - asking "Who is Meridia?" a few minutes after her literally saving their soul. It's because the story can branch in any way depending on how you play it, so every option is presented as if the player has never seen anything before that.

    So for people who are invested in the lore or know the story, it just sounds ridiculous. Sometimes "Remind me about Meridia" may just fit a bit better and make it sound less like the character has goldfish memory.

    I usually try to rephrase the questions in my head so they don't sound ridiculous - "What does this have to do with Meridia?" instead of "Who is Meridia?" and sometimes that works. Others... not so much. Ah well, it's all for story purposes.

    It's also the fact that some characters can come from different backgrounds as well - consider Zhasim the Khajiit raised by Orcs: he fully admits that speaking in the Khajiiti manner is awkward to him. I doubt he knows much Ta'agra. But that would go both ways as well - my main is an Orc raised completely by Nords, so "What is the Code of Mauloch?" would be a legit question for him, even though he's an Orc. "Who's Kyne?" on the other hand... Dude, you worship her already.
    Edited by tomofhyrule on July 1, 2021 3:50PM
  • Icy_Waffles
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    The standard is that you may be of the race but not native to the area/ culture.
  • Fennwitty
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    Do you want the dialog text to provide a translation in parentheses if your character's race matches whatever language the word is from?

    I haven't noticed a real problem, seems to add color. The words are sprinkled in very rarely and you can understand from context. Plus NPCs tend to repeat the sentiment in English (Imperial language?) in the next line. There are also lorebooks about the languages explaining them, if you don't want to look it up online.

    Beako ~ "Friend" in Argonian
    Ja-kajhe (sp) ~"Oh for the love of!" exclamation in Khajiit

    PC NA
  • WeerW3ir
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    This is more of a gameplay/story separation thing that's not handled as elegantly as it could be.

    People have mentioned this before that their character can come off as functionally brain dead at times - asking "Who is Meridia?" a few minutes after her literally saving their soul. It's because the story can branch in any way depending on how you play it, so every option is presented as if the player has never seen anything before that.

    So for people who are invested in the lore or know the story, it just sounds ridiculous. Sometimes "Remind me about Meridia" may just fit a bit better and make it sound less like the character has goldfish memory.

    I usually try to rephrase the questions in my head so they don't sound ridiculous - "What does this have to do with Meridia?" instead of "Who is Meridia?" and sometimes that works. Others... not so much. Ah well, it's all for story purposes.

    It's also the fact that some characters can come from different backgrounds as well - consider Zhasim the Khajiit raised by Orcs: he fully admits that speaking in the Khajiiti manner is awkward to him. I doubt he knows much Ta'agra. But that would go both ways as well - my main is an Orc raised completely by Nords, so "What is the Code of Mauloch?" would be a legit question for him, even though he's an Orc. "Who's Kyne?" on the other hand... Dude, you worship her already.

    Youre speaking the truth. I 100% agree.

    Althought im memtioning it because just look at a Skyrim, or Divinity 2. They recognise you. In divinity you can even have racial speech.
  • VaranisArano
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    Welcome to the experience of Dunmer, who upon arriving in Vvardenfell, promptly ask "What's a Tribunal?"

    And the natives look at them like "Wow, you are such an n'wah."
  • ArchMikem
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    It does hurt my soul that Ta'agra isn't fleshed out more, and that the default language of the vestige implied by the game is Cyrodiilic.
    CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
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  • phaneub17_ESO
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    That Khajiit raised by Orcs talks like an Orc.
  • VaxtinTheWolf
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    Phanex wrote: »
    My best guess is that the creators are trying to save time/money/resources and limit the voice acting, etc. to keep the game going.

    As other say its not just those two races but also the others, PLUS Vampires and ww. I mean I'm stage 4 vamp and another vamp is like, your not a vamp you don't know what I'm going through..

    I just look it as I'm a reborn husk of *insert race* from coldharbor and I have no memory of my previous life or culture. So, I'm basically neutral in the War, and people see me as a souless husk, not as a bret vampire, or an orc ww. /shrug

    This was sort of the reasoning for Cadwell's Silver/Gold. You were seen by others as if you belonged in those other factions outwise of your own, so you could experience their stories and learn more about the War, etc. I guess he forgot to give you the off button and now everyone sees you as Generic Civilian.
    || AD - Rah'Jiin Lv50 Khajiit Nightblade (Damage) || EP - Generic Argonian Lv50 Argonian Nightblade (Tank) || DC - Zinkotsu Lv50 Breton Nightblade (Healer) ||
    || DC - Ja'Kiro Feral-Heart Lv50 Khajiit Dragonknight (Damage) || EP - VaxtinTheWolf Lv50 Redguard Templar (Tank) || AD - Velik Iranis Lv50 Dark Elf Sorcerer (Tank ) ||
    || EP - Einvarg The Frozen Lv50 Nord Warden (Tank/Healer) || EP - Keem-Ja Lv4 Argonian Necromancer (Healer/Tank) ||
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  • MasterSpatula
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    While playing an Argonian, I'm fairly sure I remember one NPC in Murkmire referring to me as Lukiul, so I'd say it's cannon that you didn't grow up amongst the Saxkleel tribes weren't able to learn the complexities of Jel from birth.
    "A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle
  • francesinhalover
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    WeerW3ir wrote: »
    Consider this. You have an argonian character, or a khajiit. You do your adventuring in your HOMELANDS. Characters/Questgivers etc. so basicly the locals talking and using local language and words and you have no idea what are talking about. They have to explain the word to you endless times because you not learned it even after years in the game and story, not even mentioning that you should actually KNOW your own racial language. WHY?

    I have this idea, that since your character was killed and then revived on the main story, that the character just doesn't remember the past or has legit mind problems/blackouts
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  • zaria
    zaria
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    WeerW3ir wrote: »
    Not every khajiit and argonian are born in Elsweyr/Black Marsh, and don't know their race's language or culture.

    This is an issue for all the races, because there's no option for us to give a background like home province to our characters, so our race is pretty much "vestige", who does not know much.

    That dosent explain why you cannot LEARN IT.
    Its multiple languages in the game, Khajiit has Ta'agra. However its not used in games and its worldbuilding and a tool for creating Khajiit names and location.
    Same with Argonians and Jel
    Its an theory that the Khajiit's who is using I rather than this one are not native Ta'agra speakers.
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  • Scaletho
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    WeerW3ir wrote: »
    Consider this. You have an argonian character, or a khajiit. You do your adventuring in your HOMELANDS. Characters/Questgivers etc. so basicly the locals talking and using local language and words and you have no idea what are talking about. They have to explain the word to you endless times because you not learned it even after years in the game and story, not even mentioning that you should actually KNOW your own racial language. WHY?

    ESO notoriously has a shameful lack of our character's race recognition.

    That's why our Nord characters knows nothing of Skyrim Lore or basic culture, Redguard, Breton, Argonian Khajiit, etc. also lack basic recognition and dialogues that address their race and culture.

    This is a huge falt on ESO questing stories, dialogues (aka "ZOS interest of put some work to change this").

    Not even after the remastering of ESO original faction zones they did something. Oh well.
  • ThancredLux
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    it's really terrible and immersion breaking beyond believe, the excuse on the O of Online is inexcusable really, this is elder scrolls, i want to get immersed and get some cool easter eggs on dialogues here and there about my race or desease.
  • Danikat
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    As other people have said this problem isn't specific to khajiit and argonians. There's all kinds of situations where who your character is and what they should know is ignored. Some are really silly, like a quest (on Bleakrock if I remember correctly) where apparently wearing the uniform allowed my argonian to perfectly blend in with a group of all-nord bandits. There's also at least one quest in Rivenspire where you're told you have to do it because you're not a vampire, even if you are a vampire.

    Another very common one (which at least won't affect new players/characters any more) is base game quests that reference you not having a soul even if you never started the main quest and so do still have your soul.

    (The one which bothers me most often is not having the option to correct quest-givers who act like you're some dumb barbarian who doesn't know what a book is even if you're a Master Wizard in the Mages Guild and a Master Antiquarian and whatever else.)

    The annoying thing is the game is capable of tracking these things and changing dialogue based on them. Obviously it can track which quests you've completed because people in cities will yell at you about it, but there are a very small number of quests where things like being a vampire or a Dark Brotherhood member is acknowledged and I think some dialogue that changes based on your race. It's just very rarely used.

    I suspect the stupid questions like "Who is Molag Bal?" are for the benefit of players who have taken long breaks, did things in an unusual order or weren't paying attention earlier, but if that's the case I wish they'd make it optional instead of required to progress a quest.

    I'm not sure how much of the rest is because everything is voice-acted and it would be expensive to record multiple lines and how much is because the developers just don't think about it or don't want to spent the time to set up branching dialogue, or maybe because of technical limitations or something but I wish they'd do what they can to minimise it.

    Especially since they're now hyping up ESO as an immersive world you can live in, and adding more dialogue options for the player, it would be really nice to see this addressed not just in new stuff but in existing quests as well.
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  • sans-culottes
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    It’s remarkable how often ESO manages to write your character as both omnipotent and brain dead. You can be an Argonian adventuring in Murkmire, yet locals still pause to explain their own basic customs to you like you’ve just fallen off a boat. You can be a Dunmer walking into a Tribunal temple and ask, without irony, “Who’s Vivec?”

    The game refuses to commit to your character being from anywhere, knowing anything, or remembering any of the hundreds of world-shaping events they’ve supposedly lived through. Not because it makes sense, but because they want one-size-fits-all questlines with minimal branching. So every player gets treated like a confused, cultureless amnesiac no matter how deep they are into the story.

    If the world can’t recognize you, then whose fantasy is this really supposed to be?
  • mdjessup4906
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    It's probably brain damage from all the blows to the head we've taken.
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