Subclassing and class names

Aztrias · April 19

It would be cool if you subclasse you get a different class name instead of the base class one, like how it is in Pillars Eternity 2
https://pillarsofeternity.fandom.com/wiki/Subclasses

say if you are Templar and you swap one of your skill lines for Storm Calling(Destruction) your class name could change to Crusader https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Classes#Crusader

a few more examples

Sorcerer+Arcanist = Warlock
Necromancer+Sorcerer = Conjurer

and so forth.

Wereswan · April 19

Aztrias wrote: »

It would be cool if you subclasse you get a different class name instead of the base class one, like how it is in Pillars Eternity 2
https://pillarsofeternity.fandom.com/wiki/Subclasses

say if you are Templar and you swap one of your skill lines for Storm Calling(Destruction) your class name could change to Crusader https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Classes#Crusader

a few more examples

Sorcerer+Arcanist = Warlock
Necromancer+Sorcerer = Conjurer

and so forth.

There's over 6,000 possible combinations. That's going to be a pretty long list of names.

Urzigurumash · April 19

Wereswan wrote: »

Aztrias wrote: »

It would be cool if you subclasse you get a different class name instead of the base class one, like how it is in Pillars Eternity 2
https://pillarsofeternity.fandom.com/wiki/Subclasses

say if you are Templar and you swap one of your skill lines for Storm Calling(Destruction) your class name could change to Crusader https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Classes#Crusader

a few more examples

Sorcerer+Arcanist = Warlock
Necromancer+Sorcerer = Conjurer

and so forth.

There's over 6,000 possible combinations. That's going to be a pretty long list of names.

In terms of Skill Lines, I think it's 1330. But for Class Combos it's only 56, I think.

So 56 names if I'm right.

Someone else said Warden + Necro = Mummy, add it to the list

Urzigurumash · April 19

So that's 4, only 52 left.

Pixiepumpkin · April 19

Wereswan wrote: »

Aztrias wrote: »

It would be cool if you subclasse you get a different class name instead of the base class one, like how it is in Pillars Eternity 2
https://pillarsofeternity.fandom.com/wiki/Subclasses

say if you are Templar and you swap one of your skill lines for Storm Calling(Destruction) your class name could change to Crusader https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Classes#Crusader

a few more examples

Sorcerer+Arcanist = Warlock
Necromancer+Sorcerer = Conjurer

and so forth.

There's over 6,000 possible combinations. That's going to be a pretty long list of names.

There are 36 class combinations per class
252 total.

The 6000 or whatever is individual abiltiies combinations.

So, its still a long list, but 252 could be doable.

Now if subclassing was restricted to one class line (as it should be) then there would only be 36 names necessary.

Wereswan · April 19

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Wereswan wrote: »

Aztrias wrote: »

It would be cool if you subclasse you get a different class name instead of the base class one, like how it is in Pillars Eternity 2
https://pillarsofeternity.fandom.com/wiki/Subclasses

say if you are Templar and you swap one of your skill lines for Storm Calling(Destruction) your class name could change to Crusader https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Classes#Crusader

a few more examples

Sorcerer+Arcanist = Warlock
Necromancer+Sorcerer = Conjurer

and so forth.

There's over 6,000 possible combinations. That's going to be a pretty long list of names.

In terms of Skill Lines, I think it's 1330. But for Class Combos it's only 56, I think.

So 56 names if I'm right.

Someone else said Warden + Necro = Mummy, add it to the list

For one-subclass combinations, there are 7 "parent" classes with 3 different ways you can drop one skill line (A+B, A+C, B+C) and 18 possible out-of-class skill lines you can choose as a replacement, for a total of 378 possible combinations. For two-subclass combinations, there are again 3 possible choices for each "parent" class (retain A, B, or C,) 18 possible choices for your second skill line, and 15 choices for your third, for a total of 5,670 possible combinations. That's 6,038 distinct possibilities.

One added complication is that there are some thematic distinctions to consider here: a Templar 2/Sorceror 1 that takes, say, Storm Calling isn't the same as a Templar 2/Sorceror 1 that takes Daedric Summoning.

MasterSpatula · April 19

Eh, it doesn't mean anything, but it's kina a fun game.

Templar + Arcanist could be a Luxomancer, a.k.a. a Beamy Boi.

Sorc + Warden with a side of Necro could be a Beastmaster or a Menagerist.

DK + Templar is obviously a Pyromancer.

Arcanist + Necro could be a Bookworm.

SilverIce58 · April 20

All this talk of subclassing and new class names from new skill lines combos reminds me of ArcheAge for some reason. That game had multiple skill lines and had a different name for each combination of lines that would create their class. But also that game had eleven skill lines and 220 unique classes. So technically if ZOS wanted to do that they could, it'd just be a lot of different names to add. Maybe they could take names from the NPC classes, of which there's over 50 (I want to say 56, but might have miscounted) different names.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Classes

Red_Feather · April 20

I remember another game doing that and it was kind of neat. I think it was Archeage? Would it be worth the trouble? Only if someone at ZoS finds it fun to come up with names!

TX12001rwb17_ESO · April 20

This should be necessary, if someone were to ask you what class you are and you say Necromancer but only using a single Necromancer skill line then you're not really a Necromancer are you.

Having unique class names based on the skill lines your using would remedy this, now having a name for every possible combo would be a nightmare, a solution would be to make it so its just based on class combinations as opposed to skill combinations, that would be significantly less work.

Urzigurumash · April 20

Wereswan wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Wereswan wrote: »

Aztrias wrote: »

It would be cool if you subclasse you get a different class name instead of the base class one, like how it is in Pillars Eternity 2
https://pillarsofeternity.fandom.com/wiki/Subclasses

say if you are Templar and you swap one of your skill lines for Storm Calling(Destruction) your class name could change to Crusader https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Classes#Crusader

a few more examples

Sorcerer+Arcanist = Warlock
Necromancer+Sorcerer = Conjurer

and so forth.

There's over 6,000 possible combinations. That's going to be a pretty long list of names.

In terms of Skill Lines, I think it's 1330. But for Class Combos it's only 56, I think.

So 56 names if I'm right.

Someone else said Warden + Necro = Mummy, add it to the list

For one-subclass combinations, there are 7 "parent" classes with 3 different ways you can drop one skill line (A+B, A+C, B+C) and 18 possible out-of-class skill lines you can choose as a replacement, for a total of 378 possible combinations. For two-subclass combinations, there are again 3 possible choices for each "parent" class (retain A, B, or C,) 18 possible choices for your second skill line, and 15 choices for your third, for a total of 5,670 possible combinations. That's 6,038 distinct possibilities.

One added complication is that there are some thematic distinctions to consider here: a Templar 2/Sorceror 1 that takes, say, Storm Calling isn't the same as a Templar 2/Sorceror 1 that takes Daedric Summoning.

Ok I think the extra 5000ish then is from considering the order like you did, 1st line, 2nd line, etc. If you disregard that is my 1330 right? I.e. a FlameCompanionsHerald = HeraldFlameCompanions.

My 56 was from new non-ordered combos of Class Names rather than Skill Lines. SorcPlarDK = DKSorcPlar.

Urzigurumash · April 20

@TX12001rwb17_ESO yeah thats where I got the 56 from, see post above.

Totally crazy if that also happens to be the number of NPC Classes as @SilverIce58 said??

Wereswan · April 20

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Wereswan wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Wereswan wrote: »

Aztrias wrote: »

It would be cool if you subclasse you get a different class name instead of the base class one, like how it is in Pillars Eternity 2
https://pillarsofeternity.fandom.com/wiki/Subclasses

say if you are Templar and you swap one of your skill lines for Storm Calling(Destruction) your class name could change to Crusader https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Classes#Crusader

a few more examples

Sorcerer+Arcanist = Warlock
Necromancer+Sorcerer = Conjurer

and so forth.

There's over 6,000 possible combinations. That's going to be a pretty long list of names.

In terms of Skill Lines, I think it's 1330. But for Class Combos it's only 56, I think.

So 56 names if I'm right.

Someone else said Warden + Necro = Mummy, add it to the list

For one-subclass combinations, there are 7 "parent" classes with 3 different ways you can drop one skill line (A+B, A+C, B+C) and 18 possible out-of-class skill lines you can choose as a replacement, for a total of 378 possible combinations. For two-subclass combinations, there are again 3 possible choices for each "parent" class (retain A, B, or C,) 18 possible choices for your second skill line, and 15 choices for your third, for a total of 5,670 possible combinations. That's 6,038 distinct possibilities.

One added complication is that there are some thematic distinctions to consider here: a Templar 2/Sorceror 1 that takes, say, Storm Calling isn't the same as a Templar 2/Sorceror 1 that takes Daedric Summoning.

Ok I think the extra 5000ish then is from considering the order like you did, 1st line, 2nd line, etc. If you disregard that is my 1330 right? I.e. a FlameCompanionsHerald = HeraldFlameCompanions.

My 56 was from new non-ordered combos of Class Names rather than Skill Lines. SorcPlarDK = DKSorcPlar.

You mean if you disregarded specific class lines? Then it would be 7 parent classes with 6 potential one-skill subclasses (42) and 7 parent classes, 6 first skill subclasses, and 5 second skill subclasses (210) for a total of 252. That can probably be cut down further if we're considering a 2 Sorc/1 Templar as being the same broad group as a 2 Templar/1 Sorc (although I'd argue that "more Sorc than Templar" and "more Templar than Sorc" are distinct.)

Edit to add: there would be more duplication in the two-class lines, because that number would include Arc/Necro/NB, Necro/Arc/NB, and NB/Arc/Necro as three possible combinations, so 70 of those.

Wereswan · April 20

Wereswan wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Wereswan wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Wereswan wrote: »

Aztrias wrote: »

It would be cool if you subclasse you get a different class name instead of the base class one, like how it is in Pillars Eternity 2
https://pillarsofeternity.fandom.com/wiki/Subclasses

say if you are Templar and you swap one of your skill lines for Storm Calling(Destruction) your class name could change to Crusader https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Classes#Crusader

a few more examples

Sorcerer+Arcanist = Warlock
Necromancer+Sorcerer = Conjurer

and so forth.

There's over 6,000 possible combinations. That's going to be a pretty long list of names.

In terms of Skill Lines, I think it's 1330. But for Class Combos it's only 56, I think.

So 56 names if I'm right.

Someone else said Warden + Necro = Mummy, add it to the list

For one-subclass combinations, there are 7 "parent" classes with 3 different ways you can drop one skill line (A+B, A+C, B+C) and 18 possible out-of-class skill lines you can choose as a replacement, for a total of 378 possible combinations. For two-subclass combinations, there are again 3 possible choices for each "parent" class (retain A, B, or C,) 18 possible choices for your second skill line, and 15 choices for your third, for a total of 5,670 possible combinations. That's 6,038 distinct possibilities.

One added complication is that there are some thematic distinctions to consider here: a Templar 2/Sorceror 1 that takes, say, Storm Calling isn't the same as a Templar 2/Sorceror 1 that takes Daedric Summoning.

Ok I think the extra 5000ish then is from considering the order like you did, 1st line, 2nd line, etc. If you disregard that is my 1330 right? I.e. a FlameCompanionsHerald = HeraldFlameCompanions.

My 56 was from new non-ordered combos of Class Names rather than Skill Lines. SorcPlarDK = DKSorcPlar.

You mean if you disregarded specific class lines? Then it would be 7 parent classes with 6 potential one-skill subclasses (42) and 7 parent classes, 6 first skill subclasses, and 5 second skill subclasses (210) for a total of 252. That can probably be cut down further if we're considering a 2 Sorc/1 Templar as being the same broad group as a 2 Templar/1 Sorc (although I'd argue that "more Sorc than Templar" and "more Templar than Sorc" are distinct.)

Edit to add: there would be more duplication in the two-class lines, because that number would include Arc/Necro/NB, Necro/Arc/NB, and NB/Arc/Necro as three possible combinations, so 70 of those.

Edit 2: it also means that 5,670 number is three times too high, and the number of possible three-class line combinations is actually 1,890.

randconfig · April 20

Wereswan wrote: »

Aztrias wrote: »

It would be cool if you subclasse you get a different class name instead of the base class one, like how it is in Pillars Eternity 2
https://pillarsofeternity.fandom.com/wiki/Subclasses

say if you are Templar and you swap one of your skill lines for Storm Calling(Destruction) your class name could change to Crusader https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Classes#Crusader

a few more examples

Sorcerer+Arcanist = Warlock
Necromancer+Sorcerer = Conjurer

and so forth.

There's over 6,000 possible combinations. That's going to be a pretty long list of names.

7 classes
3 skill lines each
= 21 total skill lines to choose from

Each time we can choose a combination of 3 out of the total 21 skill lines:

Total combinations = C
Number of options to choose from = n
Number to choose for each combination = r

C = n! / ((n-r)! * r!)

C = 21! / ((21-3)! * 3!)

C = 21! / (18! * 3!)

C = 21! / 18! * 3!

C =
21 * 20 * 19 * 18 * 17 * 16 * 15 * 14 * 13 * 12 * 11 * 10 * 9 * 8 * 7 * 6 * 5 * 4 * 3 * 2 * 1

18 * 17 * 16 * 15 * 14 * 13 * 12 * 11 * 10 * 9 * 8 * 7 * 6 * 5 * 4 * 3 * 2 * 1 * 3 * 2 * 1

Cancel out some things to get...

C =
21 * 20 * 19

3 * 2 * 1

C =
7,980

6

And we find...

C = 1,330

So we get 1,330 possible unique combinations of skill lines, not 6,000. Still that's a lot of names to come up with haha.

SeaGtGruff · April 20

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

There are 36 class combinations per class
252 total.

Not really. Your illustration assumes that combination A+B+C (where A, B, and C are three specific classes) is different than combination A+C+B, but functionally they're the same as each other. So that gives us 21 combinations for a given class:

A+A+B, A+A+C, A+A+D, A+A+E, A+A+F, A+A+G
A+B+C, A+B+D, A+B+E, A+B+F, A+B+G
A+C+D, A+C+E, A+C+F, A+C+G
A+D+E, A+D+F, A+D+G
A+E+F, A+E+G
A+F+G

We could also argue that A+B+C is functionally the same as B+A+C and C+A+B, but they're different for two reasons-- the first class determines which class gear sets the character can wear, as well as which other subclasses the character can change to. So that gives us 147 possible subclasses in all.

Tandor · April 20

Not much chance of agreeing on a list of names when there isn't even any agreement on how many names would be needed...

randconfig · April 20

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

There are 36 class combinations per class
252 total.

Not really. Your illustration assumes that combination A+B+C (where A, B, and C are three specific classes) is different than combination A+C+B, but functionally they're the same as each other. So that gives us 21 combinations for a given class:

A+A+B, A+A+C, A+A+D, A+A+E, A+A+F, A+A+G
A+B+C, A+B+D, A+B+E, A+B+F, A+B+G
A+C+D, A+C+E, A+C+F, A+C+G
A+D+E, A+D+F, A+D+G
A+E+F, A+E+G
A+F+G

We could also argue that A+B+C is functionally the same as B+A+C and C+A+B, but they're different for two reasons-- the first class determines which class gear sets the character can wear, as well as which other subclasses the character can change to. So that gives us 147 possible subclasses in all.

Since it's been a while since I've done any complicated math stuff, I thought I might be wrong after seeing there's still no consensus on how many combinations are possible, so I asked ChatGPT to solve a similar scenario to get:

Urzigurumash · April 20

@Wereswan Forget Parent Class. If we can choose 2 or 3 options out of 7, how many combinations do we get? That's what my 56 was.

Anyhow looking at the list of NPC classes is neat for ideas. I see Armamancer, that's a good one, few options:

Aedric Spear, Assassination (Merciless Resolve), Ardent Flame (Chains), Bone Tyrant (Scythe).. probably some others..