Double spec bow does not belong in PvP

xylena_lazarow · April 17

Title. This is the worst thing they added to PvP and it has nothing to do with subclassing. Please adjust.

PS: Rushing Agony automation proc still not nerfed, still more cheese on its own than anything subclassing is capable of.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · April 17

I think there are worse things they have added but it does seem a bit weird, wouldn't be surprised if they added a 3s cooldown to the shot similar to the veng skill. Also why if this is allowed does sorc not get to store 2 frag proc's, sometimes it could double proc if you use another skill before firing the ability so surely this must be helpful to allow right?!

React · April 17

This was a weird change for sure, but based on their developer note this is to benefit the casual crowd in PVE so that they aren't "punished" as hard for not firing their bow procs straight away.

I think just allowing the modifier to stack up to 10 while allowing the proc to be fired anytime at 5 stacks or later, consuming all stacks, probably would have been good enough to allow some leeway for those players without making it so much stronger than it already was in PVP.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · April 17

React wrote: »

I think just allowing the modifier to stack up to 10 while allowing the proc to be fired anytime at 5 stacks or later, consuming all stacks, probably would have been good enough to allow some leeway for those players without making it so much stronger than it already was in PVP.

The only benefit then would be the tiny amount of weapon spell dmg you get before you shoot the bow at 6 stacks. This change was clearly designed for heavy attack builds (as is also the case with the mythic in this 'chapter'), my guess is that they just didn't consider the impact of double shots because in a PVE sense it wouldn't really matter (would actually be better to stack to 10, shoot once then restack to 10 unless in an burst window).

The_Meathead · April 17

React wrote: »

This was a weird change for sure, but based on their developer note this is to benefit the casual crowd in PVE so that they aren't "punished" as hard for not firing their bow procs straight away.

I don't even really understand this line of thinking, tbh (from the Devs, that is.)

Don't we WANT skilled and well-executed play to matter? Shouldn't that be the ideal? Do it better and do more DPS, make it sloppy and do less DPS. Why dumb anything down?

The_Meathead · April 17

As to Xy's topic at hand, yes - double Bow Proc is an insanely bad idea for PVP.

There's absolutely no way someone with any first-hand PvP experience or interest made this decision.

xylena_lazarow · April 17

Worse than the potential for easy two shots is the way it lets players screw up, get countered, then immediately try their wombo combo again. No thanks, you miss your two shot, you wait at least 20-30 seconds.

Rushing Agony has the same problem, players can keep pressing their 2 button automation, failing and dying, then trying again 8 seconds later until they get lucky with a chain reaction off some poor exploding noob.

React · April 17

The_Meathead wrote: »

React wrote: »

This was a weird change for sure, but based on their developer note this is to benefit the casual crowd in PVE so that they aren't "punished" as hard for not firing their bow procs straight away.

I don't even really understand this line of thinking, tbh (from the Devs, that is.)

Don't we WANT skilled and well-executed play to matter? Shouldn't that be the ideal? Do it better and do more DPS, make it sloppy and do less DPS. Why dumb anything down?

Based on pretty much every mechanical change and the vast majority of balance changes in the past 5 years, dumbing things down is exactly what they want for this game.

loosej · April 17

React wrote: »

The_Meathead wrote: »

React wrote: »

This was a weird change for sure, but based on their developer note this is to benefit the casual crowd in PVE so that they aren't "punished" as hard for not firing their bow procs straight away.

I don't even really understand this line of thinking, tbh (from the Devs, that is.)

Don't we WANT skilled and well-executed play to matter? Shouldn't that be the ideal? Do it better and do more DPS, make it sloppy and do less DPS. Why dumb anything down?

Based on pretty much every mechanical change and the vast majority of balance changes in the past 5 years, dumbing things down is exactly what they want for this game.

It's smart business, unfortunately. The perfect customer has above average wealth and below average intelligence.

Kartalin · April 17

React wrote: »

The_Meathead wrote: »

React wrote: »

This was a weird change for sure, but based on their developer note this is to benefit the casual crowd in PVE so that they aren't "punished" as hard for not firing their bow procs straight away.

I don't even really understand this line of thinking, tbh (from the Devs, that is.)

Don't we WANT skilled and well-executed play to matter? Shouldn't that be the ideal? Do it better and do more DPS, make it sloppy and do less DPS. Why dumb anything down?

Based on pretty much every mechanical change and the vast majority of balance changes in the past 5 years, dumbing things down is exactly what they want for this game.

While there may be a method to their madness, that doesn't mean it still isn't madness.

If I use spectral bow after every 6th LA instead of 5, how much dps loss is that, 3k? 5k?

It feels like there at least used to be a time when players were forced to actually git gud.

To be fair, this is at least one change score pushers won't benefit from. Now we just have to get super worried in pvp every time we've been brawling with a NB for 10 seconds. Not that we'll be able to necessarily recognize that we're fighting a NB anymore.

JobooAGS · April 17

If zos wants to allow leeway with grim focus, they should have it be 7 or 8 stacks max to prevent concerns over double bow procs.

Vaqual · April 17

Buffing one of the strongest abilities in the game just for the heck of it is not something that I'd consider helpful at the moment. The ability is already easy to use, provides enough passive benefit and losing one stack due to mindless heavy attacking is not enough of a justification for such a change. The slower ramp up is not at all sufficient to balance this boost to it's maximum damage potential.

Joy_Division · April 18

ZOS does have a history of really trying to empower players who just forget or are incapable of pressing buttons

Zallion · April 18

It just goes to show how wildly out of touch they are with their own game. Like how could this not be foreseen as highly problematic? It’s like balance changes are made by an 8 year old godmodding his character. (As well as the subclassing concept as a whole imo but that’s not the point here). “Yeah and I can get TWO bow procs, and and and I can streak now too! Oh oh oh and I also want to be in corrosive at the same time!”

Bleh.

Tonturri · April 19

I could see possibly increasing the gap to 6-7 stacks if really needed, but if someone is so forgetful they need 5 extra stack wiggle room they've probably just died or something while playing. I am not looking forward to taking two bows in a row while corrosive is up.

Jestir · April 19

Between the double bow proc for PvP and the free 600 w/s damage just for slotting for PvE I think they have made a huge mistake here

Cooperharley · April 19

This ability is like a double barreled shotgun now LOL

Sluggy · April 20

loosej wrote: »

It's smart business, unfortunately. The perfect customer has above average wealth and below average intelligence.

Is it though? I've said it before: Chess is a game people dedciate their lives to and entire sub-industries have grown around. The game itself is centuries old. Candyland is a game that people stop willingly playing after about the age of seven...

JayKwellen · April 20

I wonder how much health I'm gonna need to push in PvP now. I already breached the 30k mark, which I thought was an absurdity that'd never happen not even that long ago. Now I'm just imagining something ridiculous like a double bow proc with an additional 15% damage buff from GLS.

AngryNecro · April 21

What's new with the bow, and why are there so many archers on bg? I don't see anything in the updates. What's new with the bow, and why are there so many archers on bg? I don't see anything in the updates.

JayKwellen wrote: »

I wonder how much health I'm gonna need to push in PvP now. I already breached the 30k mark, which I thought was an absurdity that'd never happen not even that long ago. Now I'm just imagining something ridiculous like a double bow proc with an additional 15% damage buff from GLS.

nope you dont need 30k hp. 25-29k. equivalent of 30k resist, 2500/1500 resusrse regen. 2-3 time out heall.

Turtle_Bot · April 22

AngryNecro wrote: »

What's new with the bow, and why are there so many archers on bg? I don't see anything in the updates. What's new with the bow, and why are there so many archers on bg? I don't see anything in the updates.

JayKwellen wrote: »

I wonder how much health I'm gonna need to push in PvP now. I already breached the 30k mark, which I thought was an absurdity that'd never happen not even that long ago. Now I'm just imagining something ridiculous like a double bow proc with an additional 15% damage buff from GLS.

nope you dont need 30k hp. 25-29k. equivalent of 30k resist, 2500/1500 resusrse regen. 2-3 time out heall.

U46 patch notes have brought changes to Spec Bow where the max stacks will be 10 (up from 5) and the bow can be double cast if you have all 10 stacks active since casting the bow still only costs 5 stacks.

Thumbless_Bot · April 22

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

AngryNecro wrote: »

What's new with the bow, and why are there so many archers on bg? I don't see anything in the updates. What's new with the bow, and why are there so many archers on bg? I don't see anything in the updates.

JayKwellen wrote: »

I wonder how much health I'm gonna need to push in PvP now. I already breached the 30k mark, which I thought was an absurdity that'd never happen not even that long ago. Now I'm just imagining something ridiculous like a double bow proc with an additional 15% damage buff from GLS.

nope you dont need 30k hp. 25-29k. equivalent of 30k resist, 2500/1500 resusrse regen. 2-3 time out heall.

U46 patch notes have brought changes to Spec Bow where the max stacks will be 10 (up from 5) and the bow can be double cast if you have all 10 stacks active since casting the bow still only costs 5 stacks.

It's a buff thinly disguised as a nerf. It's ridiculous.

Zallion · April 22

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

AngryNecro wrote: »

What's new with the bow, and why are there so many archers on bg? I don't see anything in the updates. What's new with the bow, and why are there so many archers on bg? I don't see anything in the updates.

JayKwellen wrote: »

I wonder how much health I'm gonna need to push in PvP now. I already breached the 30k mark, which I thought was an absurdity that'd never happen not even that long ago. Now I'm just imagining something ridiculous like a double bow proc with an additional 15% damage buff from GLS.

nope you dont need 30k hp. 25-29k. equivalent of 30k resist, 2500/1500 resusrse regen. 2-3 time out heall.

U46 patch notes have brought changes to Spec Bow where the max stacks will be 10 (up from 5) and the bow can be double cast if you have all 10 stacks active since casting the bow still only costs 5 stacks.

It's a buff thinly disguised as a nerf. It's ridiculous.

Even if they nerfed the stacks to 0 wd/sd the tool tip is ludicrous to have the ability be double chambered. They need to at least battle spirit change this or something. Otherwise, subbing assassination will be the clear meta until they fix it or introduce something just as broken.