The Weaponization of The Report System Needs To Stop

Decimus · April 14

Hello!

Writing this post because at this point things are getting a little bit ridiculous.

Today a smaller ESO streamer got permanently banned simply for jumping on the corpse of someone who died after running after him the whole battleground. The same person did not ask him to stop doing anything and is well known for tbagging/writing toxic whispers to other players, yet reported the smaller ESO streamer for "tbagging", for which he was promptly banned a day later.

Problem? No tbagging occurred, this was all broadcasted live on Twitch and myself as well as anyone else watching could see no tbagging happening.

Going further back a week or two, there was another player who was also reported for something written in guild chat by most likely the same person as in previous case (since they're in the same guild and this player has a history of behaving like this). Here's what was written, straight from the e-mail he got:

2025-04-05 18:07:27 ngl i still tbag just dont do it after warning

Here is the official policy for "tbagging": https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8286782/#Comment_8286782

So no tbagging even occurred and the person was simply banned for stating the official policy on a guild chat that someone whom he had killed in PvP was reading.

If we go further back a month or two, another streamer was banned for something said over a year ago on his stream... said streamer understandably received an e-mail saying the ban was issued in error and that it wouldn't be a strike on the account.

...but an apology isn't really enough if people keep weaponizing the reporting system like this.

I'd like to open this discussion and (hopefully) help ZOS realize how badly this affects the PvP community when people can just fabricate things, claim something and get someone banned for things they demonstrably didn't do.

Desiato · April 15

Ironically, I'm afraid to post exactly what I feel about the subject...

The entire policy is completely out of touch.

But more than that enforcement has always been inconsistent. There's players permanently banned because of a cheeky name or because they crouched and uncrouched a bunch of times, yet nothing happens to the most toxic casual players, some of whom have been abusive for more than 10 years -- I can only assume they're whales. And it's not uncommon to see chronic cheaters either unbanned or allowed to return with a new account -- which they don't even try to disguise.

Also I would bet the vast majority of tbag reports are cases of the system being weaponized by players not at all bothered by the act of tbagging -- like upwards of 99.9% I know for a fact that this has been the case for every single player who has threatened to report me because I had some level of familiarity with each of them.

demonology89 · April 15

My hubby was just recently suspended for tea bagging even though the person that reported never asked him to stop. His appeal was also denied. This in between stance is dumb. Either it's a bannable offense or it's not. Frankly with some of the emotes in game, tea bagging should not be reportable or worth a suspension/ban.

G0K4R · April 15

For me its just one word: consistency.

ZOS makes the rules. And they should apply them equally for everyone in the same manners. Which unfortunately seems not to be the case. And that's just wrong and needs to stop.

RealLoveBVB · April 15

There is a tiny difference between players and players who stream content.
Streamers are kind of "advertising" the game.
Short example: a non ESO player stumbles into a ESO stream. Maybe he likes the content he's seeing there. And then he see players teabagging or doing other toxic interactions, where the watcher thinks "urgh, no thanks" and strikes ESO from his game list and in worst case even talking bad about the game to his friends.
So overall teabagging on streams is bad advertising for the game.

Streamers should be role models and I think giving them harsher punishments sounds fair, based on my example.

But permanently banning one for just jumping on someone? I am sure he got a big history of warnings and bans already and this "little" verdict was just the finisher for all his actions before.

emilyhyoyeon · April 15

Some more interesting info: this past Whitestrake's event someone tbagged me for like 60sec straight as they also whispered me telling me basically how pathetic I was. I didn't say anything (didn't tell them to stop), and I reported them because I was curious from all the tbag discourse over the past few years. Support responded saying there was no breach of TOS.

edit: to be clear, I don't think tbagging should be an offense if someone doesn't tell you to stop, and I wouldn't have tested this if the person hadn't also sent a bunch of aggressive (but nothing offensive like hate speech/slurs) messages as well; but I wanted to test if maybe a combination of things with tbagging could be a reason people were getting banned for it, since maybe it makes support take the action differently by indicating hurtful vs banter-like intent.
I also know 100% Support was truthful in their response because I saw the person basically every day in Cyrodiil during the rest of Whitestrake's.

Vrienda · April 15

In the modern online gaming landscape it's easier to simply not talk. I play ESO entirely solo, I don't talk in guild chats. I don't respond to random whispers. I don't talk in dungeons, cyrodiil or battlegrounds. I don't interact with any other nearby players with emotes or whatnot. It's safer that way. This isn't the kind of game for community which is why it's baffling to see ZOS pretend that it is.

sans-culottes · April 15

Vrienda wrote: »

In the modern online gaming landscape it's easier to simply not talk. I play ESO entirely solo, I don't talk in guild chats. I don't respond to random whispers. I don't talk in dungeons, cyrodiil or battlegrounds. I don't interact with any other nearby players with emotes or whatnot. It's safer that way. This isn't the kind of game for community which is why it's baffling to see ZOS pretend that it is.

I respectfully disagree. ESO is, by design, an MMORPG. That “massively multiplayer” part does matter. Social interaction isn’t just a possibility; it’s built into the fabric of the game. Guilds, group dungeons, trials, zone chats, emotes, duels, even things like housing tours and roleplay communities all demonstrate that ESO fosters a wide range of player-to-player engagement.

It’s completely valid to choose a more solo playstyle. Many players do. But to say this “isn’t the kind of game for community” doesn’t really track with how the game is structured or how much of its content depends on collaboration. If anything, then the challenge is ensuring those community spaces remain respectful and inclusive, not pretending they don’t exist.

RealLoveBVB · April 15

Vrienda wrote: »

In the modern online gaming landscape it's easier to simply not talk. I play ESO entirely solo, I don't talk in guild chats. I don't respond to random whispers. I don't talk in dungeons, cyrodiil or battlegrounds. I don't interact with any other nearby players with emotes or whatnot. It's safer that way. This isn't the kind of game for community which is why it's baffling to see ZOS pretend that it is.

Permanent banned for ignorance

Orbital78 · April 15

A guildmate said they got a suspension for "racism" for saying "womp womp" aka sad trombone. I told him to appeal it, as it was obviously not racist unless he failed to mention other remarks.

Wuduwasa13 · April 15

I’m so old that I don’t need to crouch to bag, just walking over them gets the job done 🥲

Destai · April 15

Personally, I don't see why teabagging itself is so offensive. I don't. I don't consent to being killed in PVP, I don't consent to having curses and DOTs and whatever put on me. I don't see how it's any worse. I find mudballs to be worse. Just my perspective, not entertaining counterpoints.

There also seems to be a big disconnect between what CMs are saying is permissible, and what actually gets actioned by CS. I think that's a problem that needs to be solved, and quickly, because things like this cost ZOS customers.

I really limit my interactions. No PVP, no text chat in guild chat. It's not safe.

MasterSpatula · April 15

I'll be straight-up here; I think ZOS's rules on teabagging are far, far too lenient. I've been legitimately enraged at people in PVP before. If the game would allow me to use the wood harvesting animation on their corpses, I might have. But I've never, ever been tempted to simulate doing that to anyone, certainly not as a punishment or sign of aggression, and I'm a little dubious of anyone who would even be tempted to do so.

That said, the rules are the rules, and the rules are that it's okay unless you're asked not to do so, at which point it becomes harassment and has to stop. If that's their rule, then they must abide by it. I may agree philosophically with a harsher stance, but they can't say one thing and do another.

Major_Toughness · April 15

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I'll be straight-up here; I think ZOS's rules on teabagging are far, far too lenient. I've been legitimately enraged at people in PVP before. If the game would allow me to use the wood harvesting animation on their corpses, I might have. But I've never, ever been tempted to simulate doing that to anyone, certainly not as a punishment or sign of aggression, and I'm a little dubious of anyone who would even be tempted to do so.

That said, the rules are the rules, and the rules are that it's okay unless you're asked not to do so, at which point it becomes harassment and has to stop. If that's their rule, then they must abide by it. I may agree philosophically with a harsher stance, but they can't say one thing and do another.

It's neither a punishment or a sign of aggression. It is a taunt.

Hypertionb14_ESO · April 15

or... idk... maybe not do something that is considered toxic at all?

JavaRen · April 15

If your action is a slang term for a sex act....

But, consistency in application of rules should be the goal.

Eskibidus · April 15

I’m gonna start opening the crown store on top of dead bodies. If I get banned, I’ll just say, "I was shopping"

.

Estin · April 15

Orbital78 wrote: »

A guildmate said they got a suspension for "racism" for saying "womp womp" aka sad trombone. I told him to appeal it, as it was obviously not racist unless he failed to mention other remarks.

Appealing for words/phrases usually doesn't work with CS. CS will look up a word or phrase and see if it's linked to anything vulgar or offensive and action you on that alone, even if it's a totally outlier incident which your guildmate's phrase is.

If you watch PvP streams, you probably heard of someone getting banned through weaponized reports for a completely inoffensive phrase relating to cows. CS looked up the second part of the word, found 1 urban dictionary result that was vulgar when the rest of the definitions weren't, and banned and denied appeals based on that single definition alone.

It really makes me worried to say anything in game chat because you don't know if anything innocent you say is linked to something vulgar or offensive. CS can't just decide whatever you say is in the same extremes of some obscure use of a word or phrase.

said no one ever · April 15

Eskibidus wrote: »

I’m gonna start opening the crown store on top of dead bodies. If I get banned, I’ll just say, "I was shopping" .

And what then does that accomplish?

ragnarok6644b14_ESO · April 15

Major_Toughness wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I'll be straight-up here; I think ZOS's rules on teabagging are far, far too lenient. I've been legitimately enraged at people in PVP before. If the game would allow me to use the wood harvesting animation on their corpses, I might have. But I've never, ever been tempted to simulate doing that to anyone, certainly not as a punishment or sign of aggression, and I'm a little dubious of anyone who would even be tempted to do so.

That said, the rules are the rules, and the rules are that it's okay unless you're asked not to do so, at which point it becomes harassment and has to stop. If that's their rule, then they must abide by it. I may agree philosophically with a harsher stance, but they can't say one thing and do another.

It's neither a punishment or a sign of aggression. It is a taunt.

Oh that makes it okay then, just like taunts are okay in public

zaria · April 15

Orbital78 wrote: »

A guildmate said they got a suspension for "racism" for saying "womp womp" aka sad trombone. I told him to appeal it, as it was obviously not racist unless he failed to mention other remarks.

Then I say its well overdue to look into the moderators, good chance we have lots of meme redit moderators types here who are tin pot dictators worse they support their friends.
Now you had New World where autobans because of mass reporting became an primary PvP strategy.

For me I rarely speak in Cyrodil, either I'm there for PvE or I'm in guild run who are on discord.

Desiato · April 15

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

or... idk... maybe not do something that is considered toxic at all?

There are people in cultures different than mine who are deeply offended when a seated person with crossed legs points their foot at them. To them, it's ignorant and toxic.

Knowing this, I cross my legs anyway because I sincerely believe it's harmless and I think those who would be offended need to put it into perspective. Fortunately for me, I live in a free society. At least for now.

That might be triggering to someone based on some experiences they've had on life, but I think the onus is on them to figure out how to deal with it because it's factually a harmless act outside of what they may associate with it.

Part of freedom is accepting harmless things other people do, even when it's annoying.

randconfig · April 15

Desiato wrote: »

Ironically, I'm afraid to post exactly what I feel about the subject...

I had this same fear before, but just the other day a ZOS employee allowed such type of civil discussion to occur without punishing the commenters/poster. They only closed the thread once it became "non-constructive".

This implies ZOS does want to hear from the community on these issues, just for it to be in a constructive/non-hateful way, and I don't think they want the community to be afraid of them, so I think it's safe to discuss the subject here.

Thread below:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/676032/have-they-stopped-banning-people-for-stupid-stuff-yet#latest)

ragnarok6644b14_ESO · April 15

Major_Toughness wrote: »

Part of freedom is accepting harmless things other people do, even when it's annoying.

If a taunt were harmless, methinks it wouldn't be a very good taunt.

randconfig · April 15

demonology89 wrote: »

My hubby was just recently suspended for tea bagging even though the person that reported never asked him to stop. His appeal was also denied. This in between stance is dumb. Either it's a bannable offense or it's not. Frankly with some of the emotes in game, tea bagging should not be reportable or worth a suspension/ban.

Completely agree on this. I think all competitive games have this behavior, even sports in real life. So inherently, I think there's nothing wrong with emoting, taunting, and/or boasting, as long as it's in good fun. Meaning you're not going beyond that by harassing them in whispers, following them in the game world to harass them, or they ask you to stop and you keep doing it anyway.

I think the ToS should be updated to include these clear guidelines and examples, instead of a broad range of rules that are open to interpretation.

I also think it would build more trust with the community if reports, appeals, and punishment had player information redacted, but the actual case was viewable online, and even better if the person(s) examining the report to vote/cast judgement were volunteers from the community. Kind of like the Tribunal from league of legends.

That would eliminate any automated AI punishment rumors, and ease the burden on existing customer support staff/save ZOS money.

randconfig · April 15

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

Major_Toughness wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I'll be straight-up here; I think ZOS's rules on teabagging are far, far too lenient. I've been legitimately enraged at people in PVP before. If the game would allow me to use the wood harvesting animation on their corpses, I might have. But I've never, ever been tempted to simulate doing that to anyone, certainly not as a punishment or sign of aggression, and I'm a little dubious of anyone who would even be tempted to do so.

That said, the rules are the rules, and the rules are that it's okay unless you're asked not to do so, at which point it becomes harassment and has to stop. If that's their rule, then they must abide by it. I may agree philosophically with a harsher stance, but they can't say one thing and do another.

It's neither a punishment or a sign of aggression. It is a taunt.

Oh that makes it okay then, just like taunts are okay in public

Taunts aren't necessarily being mean to someone, sometimes you taunt your friend in order to challenge them, like "bet you can't beat me to the car slowpoke" meaning you want to race them to the car to see who is faster.

What you say afterwards matter though, like "dang bro you almost beat me and I'm a marathon runner, ggs", shows good sportsmanship versus, "hahaha I knew you were too slow and would lose, git gud", which shows you're kinda a jerk lol.

Major_Toughness · April 15

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

Major_Toughness wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I'll be straight-up here; I think ZOS's rules on teabagging are far, far too lenient. I've been legitimately enraged at people in PVP before. If the game would allow me to use the wood harvesting animation on their corpses, I might have. But I've never, ever been tempted to simulate doing that to anyone, certainly not as a punishment or sign of aggression, and I'm a little dubious of anyone who would even be tempted to do so.

That said, the rules are the rules, and the rules are that it's okay unless you're asked not to do so, at which point it becomes harassment and has to stop. If that's their rule, then they must abide by it. I may agree philosophically with a harsher stance, but they can't say one thing and do another.

It's neither a punishment or a sign of aggression. It is a taunt.

Oh that makes it okay then, just like taunts are okay in public

Depends what you mean by public. Have you never seen in sports where after going past, scoring against, or tackling an opponent, they might say or do something to remind them of that fact? Even so much as saying "easy" or pointing at the person with a cheeky grin. Is sport considered in public?

It's part of sport, people will try get a physical and mental advantage.

You are against other players, they will try get an advantage where they can.

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

Major_Toughness wrote: »

Part of freedom is accepting harmless things other people do, even when it's annoying.

If a taunt were harmless, methinks it wouldn't be a very good taunt.

Not sure what you did as part of editing your comment but you managed to look like you were quoting me but it was from another comment.

As my above examples, if someone scores against you in a sport, then makes a verbal or physical remark, and you then think to yourself "What a pr*ck.", has he harmed you? I would say no, so his taunt is harmless, and worked.

Decimus · April 15

A little update... the streamer who was banned yesterday got unbanned after an appeal since the report that was sent was indeed just lies and misleading.

The problem is that this doesn't stop the individual from just doing the same again and coming up with some imaginary offense to get someone else banned in the future.

The way moderation is handled seriously needs to change & more effort needs to be put into investigating whether someone actually breached the TOS: when the event occurred, if the event occurred etc, and the people filing these false reports whenever they die in PvP should be held accountable.

This is getting tiresome.

Desiato · April 15

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

If a taunt were harmless, methinks it wouldn't be a very good taunt.

Being taunted is an example of an own goal. It is something the taunted person should self-correct because it is an irrational reaction if they are responding to something that is only a taunt with no substance.

Like if I'm out for a walk and someone gives me the middle finger, how I respond to that is entirely a me thing. The same is true if someone tells me I smell. In fact, visibly responding to such taunts is exactly what a person should not do as that is what gives the taunt power.

Tbagging is what one makes of it. The other player is crouching and uncrouching. You don't know what they intend by it. Maybe they hate you or maybe this is their way of having fun with you because that's what tbagging is to them.

Regardless, there's no excuse for this or any policy to be weaponized. If someone is merely mad they were taunted and not traumatized by it, they should just live and let live.

ragnarok6644b14_ESO · April 15

Desiato wrote: »

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

If a taunt were harmless, methinks it wouldn't be a very good taunt.

Being taunted is an example of an own goal. It is something the taunted person should self-correct because it is an irrational reaction if they are responding to something that is only a taunt with no substance.

Like if I'm out for a walk and someone gives me the middle finger, how I respond to that is entirely a me thing. The same is true if someone tells me I smell. In fact, visibly responding to such taunts is exactly what a person should not do as that is what gives the taunt power.

ah, yes, it is the victim's fault, and not the person trying to provoke them. In fact, I think everyone should try to provoke each other all the time, and we should jail people who actually respond to the provocation.

After all, provocation is harmless.

NoSoup · April 15

I think this has been an issue long enough to know by now to just not tea bag. Sure, there's a big chunk of the community that thinks "Its fine to teabag until they tell me to stop" but this way of thinking is inevitably only going to lead you to an eventual suspension.

Simple response is to just not tea bag. We were actually discussing this in guild just a few weeks ago and the consensus was you no longer need to wait for a "please stop" to risk getting punished and the whole actioon should just be avoided.