I'm Appalled at the Season Pass / ESO+ Value Proposition

dcrush · April 12

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

The monetization is one of the worst parts of this game. They made a big deal on the stream about how their team has gotten bigger, yet the content over the years has been getting smaller. This game is a cash cow for them. They pump crown store cosmetics, houses, and spend the absolute minimum amount of time possible balancing classes and fixing bugs.

I’m really excited to play around with subclassing but they need to stop trying to suck more money out of the players when it’s clear the product isn’t worth what they’re asking.

Not keen on monetization generally but there is the counterpoint of how you make enough money once the game is released to fund all the different aspects? Especially in an MMO.

What do you suggest should be done to pay the wages of those who work for Zos?

Do you honestly think profits from the price increases and less content for more money go to the people actually working on the game?

Vain · April 12

Making content that requires a group also be a buy or subscribe to play...

GW2 you even get the crafting bag free and there's no sub. The visuals are better, the payment model is better, even the mount physics (my primary metric used on all games that have mounts) is superb.

You pay for cosmetics and expansions, they even give you the story for free so long as you just log in once during any of the story episodes.

Honestly the only reason I waste any time in ESO is the community.

Cooperharley · April 12

Im just going to buy the season pass and not sub unless something crazy cool is added to ESO+. I dont care about the housing stuff whatsoever

Gabriel_H · April 12

celner4_ESO wrote: »

So not only are we asked to partake in the season pass which so far IS going to be less content for a 50$ purchase than Chapters were, ESO+ subscription does not include the season pass???'(

How is it less content? Rather than one big content drop, it's now split into two.
New Chapters were never included in ESO+.
The new dungeons - Fallen Banners and the upcoming one are included in ESO+

Literally the only thing that has changed is the Chapter content has been split into two.

See: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/675896/eso-2025-content-pass-faq#latest

Edit: Oh wait, there is one other difference, the four new dungeons are permanently unlocked with the Season Pass, which didn't happen with previous Chapters. So for the same price as previously, you get a Chapter and two dungeon packs permanently unlocked.

I'm struggling to see what the complaint is.

Vonnegut2506 · April 12

Gabriel_H wrote: »

celner4_ESO wrote: »

So not only are we asked to partake in the season pass which so far IS going to be less content for a 50$ purchase than Chapters were, ESO+ subscription does not include the season pass???'(

How is it less content? Rather than one big content drop, it's now split into two.
New Chapters were never included in ESO+.
The new dungeons - Fallen Banners and the upcoming one are included in ESO+

Literally the only thing that has changed is the Chapter content has been split into two.

See: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/675896/eso-2025-content-pass-faq#latest

Edit: Oh wait, there is one other difference, the four new dungeons are permanently unlocked with the Season Pass, which didn't happen with previous Chapters. So for the same price as previously, you get a Chapter and two dungeon packs permanently unlocked.

I'm struggling to see what the complaint is.

Well, there are several threads clearly outlining the complaints, so I'm not sure where the struggle is, but I will try and summarize for you. ESO+ has always given access to the dungeon DLC's. Yet, even if you are an ESO+ subscriber, you will have to pay $10 more for a zone split into two than you had to for Gold Road or any other chapter. The fact that the pass includes the dungeons just means ESO+ people are paying for them twice with no other benefit added except some furniture vault that a lot of us don't care about.

thedocbwarren · April 12

Since I have a lot of content to catch up to and I din't do group dungeons, I'll skip. If the season never comes back, so be it I miss the island on my map. There is a limit of what I can afford now days and subscription is it (for the moment.)

Not happy with a lot of the systems/content they have implemented as of late: IA, ToT, small zones, volcanic time wasters, etc. Anyway I'll stick with just ESO+ and finish up what I have.

Gabriel_H · April 12

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

celner4_ESO wrote: »

So not only are we asked to partake in the season pass which so far IS going to be less content for a 50$ purchase than Chapters were, ESO+ subscription does not include the season pass???'(

How is it less content? Rather than one big content drop, it's now split into two.
New Chapters were never included in ESO+.
The new dungeons - Fallen Banners and the upcoming one are included in ESO+

Literally the only thing that has changed is the Chapter content has been split into two.

See: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/675896/eso-2025-content-pass-faq#latest

Edit: Oh wait, there is one other difference, the four new dungeons are permanently unlocked with the Season Pass, which didn't happen with previous Chapters. So for the same price as previously, you get a Chapter and two dungeon packs permanently unlocked.

I'm struggling to see what the complaint is.

Well, there are several threads clearly outlining the complaints, so I'm not sure where the struggle is, but I will try and summarize for you. ESO+ has always given access to the dungeon DLC's. Yet, even if you are an ESO+ subscriber, you will have to pay $10 more for a zone split into two than you had to for Gold Road or any other chapter. The fact that the pass includes the dungeons just means ESO+ people are paying for them twice with no other benefit added except some furniture vault that a lot of us don't care about.

Whether it is split into two is irrelevant to the value comparison.
ESO+ subscribers had to pay to access Gold Road at release along with everyone else.
ESO+ subscribers aren't paying twice for them unless they are putting up the subscription price.
As for it being $10 than Necrom: Is it really suprising given the price of games has been increasing over the last 3 - 5 years due to things like inflation, rising development costs etc. Other Chapters have cost more than Necrom as well iirc.

So, I'll re-iterate: I struggle to see what the complaint is. The only complaint based in reality is around ESO+ subscription price and owning DLC content - a complaint that has existed from day 1 of ESO+.

Vonnegut2506 · April 12

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

celner4_ESO wrote: »

So not only are we asked to partake in the season pass which so far IS going to be less content for a 50$ purchase than Chapters were, ESO+ subscription does not include the season pass???'(

How is it less content? Rather than one big content drop, it's now split into two.
New Chapters were never included in ESO+.
The new dungeons - Fallen Banners and the upcoming one are included in ESO+

Literally the only thing that has changed is the Chapter content has been split into two.

See: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/675896/eso-2025-content-pass-faq#latest

Edit: Oh wait, there is one other difference, the four new dungeons are permanently unlocked with the Season Pass, which didn't happen with previous Chapters. So for the same price as previously, you get a Chapter and two dungeon packs permanently unlocked.

I'm struggling to see what the complaint is.

Well, there are several threads clearly outlining the complaints, so I'm not sure where the struggle is, but I will try and summarize for you. ESO+ has always given access to the dungeon DLC's. Yet, even if you are an ESO+ subscriber, you will have to pay $10 more for a zone split into two than you had to for Gold Road or any other chapter. The fact that the pass includes the dungeons just means ESO+ people are paying for them twice with no other benefit added except some furniture vault that a lot of us don't care about.

Whether it is split into two is irrelevant to the value comparison.
ESO+ subscribers had to pay to access Gold Road at release along with everyone else.
ESO+ subscribers aren't paying twice for them unless they are putting up the subscription price.
As for it being $10 than Necrom: Is it really suprising given the price of games has been increasing over the last 3 - 5 years due to things like inflation, rising development costs etc. Other Chapters have cost more than Necrom as well iirc.

If ESO+ includes the dungeons already, and you have to buy the pass to get the zone (which also includes the dungeons), you are paying for them twice if there is no reduction in price for subscribing. You are paying $15 a month for Plus which includes dungeon DLC's as one of the perks and $50 for one adventure zone and the dungeons. You can try and argue semantics however you want, but you are paying for the dungeons twice if you subscribe.

AzuraFan · April 12

Gabriel_H wrote: »

So, I'll re-iterate: I struggle to see what the complaint is. The only complaint based in reality is around ESO+ subscription price and owning DLC content - a complaint that has existed from day 1 of ESO+.

A non-subscriber pays $50 for the content pass and gets access to 5 new things.

A subscriber pays $50 for the content pass and gets access to 3 new things. (they already have access to the two dungeons, so those aren't new).

So...subscribers are being asked to pay the same price as non-subscribers, for access to fewer new things.

If you still don't get it, think about it this way:

You subscribe to a service that gives you access to A, B, C, and D.

The company comes out with a new package of things that contain A, B, E, and F. They're charging $50 for it, to both subscribers and non-subscribers.

For your $50, subscribers get E and F (you already have A and B, so yeah, you get them, but in effect you're paying for them twice. Once as part of your subscription, and once as part of the package).
For people who don't subscribe, their $50 gets A, B, E, and F.

That's the problem. If you don't see the problem, then I can only assume you're someone who wouldn't mind paying the same price as someone else, but getting less stuff for it. Most people don't like to be exploited that way and will rightly complain about it.

ZOS could have easily offered a content pass at a lower price that didn't include the dungeons. The fact that it doesn't speaks volumes about how it sees subscribers: Hint: as gullible cash cows.

silky_soft · April 12

Yea I'll consider it if they have an option that will drop the content that would have already be in eso+.

I'd even accept just refund me the crown cost equivalent when I chuck in the code into my eso+ activated accounts. I'll consider buy a full year sub if that's what is required to receive the credit.

Two_Ears · April 13

I have not been met with the need of ESO+ yet.

But I'm super glad that ESO is not going the GGG or ANET road and put their earnings behind awful, immersion breaking, eye bleeding, visual pollution skins. I will gtfo the game if they will start this.

The_Oakster · April 13

I look at it this way.

There are two payment options offered:

The first is a subscription offered where you pay a low monthly fee and get all the old content, plus some exclusive perks for being a monthly subscriber, but only while subscribing, however you don't get the latest content straight away. This generates more income over time but may not be consistent. You can sub and unsub whenever you want so you get perks whilst subscribing, and none when you don't.

The second is a one price only option that lets you get all the old content and the new content on release, but you don't get the subscriber perks because you're not subscribing. This generates a fixed amount of income up front but then no income afterwards, so you get the latest content but no perks.

You can choose to do one or the other. If you really want to, you can do both but you don't need both.

I have said before, every single post here, mine included is simply based on what you value. If you don't value housing, you think you've lost out. If you don't value dungeons, you feel hard done by, if you don't value crowns, then you're being cheated.

This is also why the analogy of a sub and a non-sub paying the same amount for less only works if you value all the options the same and I wouldn't think that most people do.

IMO, in plain monetary terms there is simply no argument that ESO+ is not worth it when, and I reiterate as people will ignore this, from a monetary point of view, you pay less a month for the subscription than it costs for the Crowns you receive every month.

agelonestar · April 13

I’m less concerned about the direct cost - the difference between the season pass and a chapter isn’t enough to give me heart failure.

I am however irritated by the apparent constant erosion of ESO+. This year I’ll be paying for ESO+ as well as the “chapter” price, plus I’ll be paying an additional fee for the two dungeons and DLC content that used to be included in ESO+.

ZoS seems to believe that throwing in a furniture trunk balances the equation. Welcome as that is, it absolutely doesn’t. I really hope ZoS rethinks, and either adds more into the subscription to balance things out, or simply includes the ESO+ perks in the season pass.

The_Oakster · April 13

agelonestar wrote: »

...
I am however irritated by the apparent constant erosion of ESO+...

ZoS seems to believe that throwing in a furniture trunk balances the equation. Welcome as that is, it absolutely doesn’t...

And you prove my point. These are your personal values, and I'm not saying they're not valid, as everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but ZoS isn't going to provide a subscription model that just benefits one type of player, it is there so that when people are thinking of subscribing they see a benefit to them, however they play. This means some of the benefits won't appeal to everyone and if the new offer of ESO+ doesn't reach your value threshold then don't pay it. It's not needed after all.

Analogies seem to be a thing in here so in a way it can be looked at the same as any other offer. If I was to go to a Spa Day at a hotel, the cost might include access to the indoor pool, the outdoor pool, the sauna, the steam room, the gym, the fitness classes and so on but if I don't swim and I look scary in a leotard, I have to decide if the cost is worth it, even though I won't be using everything on offer. If it is, then I will pay and enjoy the other benefits, if it's not, then I won't.

I just wanted to try and frame it the way that I see it but this is all personal values and no one is going to convince anyone that their values aren't right so I'm out.

Have a good day all and I'll see you soon on the Isle of Solstice

sans-culottes · April 13

The_Oakster wrote: »

agelonestar wrote: »

...
I am however irritated by the apparent constant erosion of ESO+...

ZoS seems to believe that throwing in a furniture trunk balances the equation. Welcome as that is, it absolutely doesn’t...

And you prove my point. These are your personal values, and I'm not saying they're not valid, as everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but ZoS isn't going to provide a subscription model that just benefits one type of player, it is there so that when people are thinking of subscribing they see a benefit to them, however they play. This means some of the benefits won't appeal to everyone and if the new offer of ESO+ doesn't reach your value threshold then don't pay it. It's not needed after all.

Analogies seem to be a thing in here so in a way it can be looked at the same as any other offer. If I was to go to a Spa Day at a hotel, the cost might include access to the indoor pool, the outdoor pool, the sauna, the steam room, the gym, the fitness classes and so on but if I don't swim and I look scary in a leotard, I have to decide if the cost is worth it, even though I won't be using everything on offer. If it is, then I will pay and enjoy the other benefits, if it's not, then I won't.

I just wanted to try and frame it the way that I see it but this is all personal values and no one is going to convince anyone that their values aren't right so I'm out.

Have a good day all and I'll see you soon on the Isle of Solstice

I appreciate your effort to frame the debate in terms of personal valuation, but I think it misses the broader structural point several of us are making. The concern isn’t just that some players feel ESO+ has lost value. It’s that the content structure has shifted in a way that objectively fragments what was once unified, especially around dungeons and core story content. This isn’t just about furniture trunks or individual taste.

To use your own analogy: yes, you can choose not to use the sauna or steam room. But if last year the spa package included both pools, classes, and a massage, and this year the massage now costs extra even though you’re still paying the same price—or more—then the question becomes one of value degradation, not individual preference.

People are not complaining because they don’t feel satisfied. They’re raising concerns because the offering has changed in a way that seems to reduce value while increasing cost, especially for longtime subscribers.

ForumBully · April 13

At least I feel like I understand this new system better now. With the information so far, it almost seems like adding value to ESO+.
Since ZOS decided to call one DLC a "chapter" and stop including it in ESO+, We've had to pay separately if we wanted what the chapter offered, or wait a year. This seems unchanged. However, the new system, Subclassing, could have easily been behind that paywall, but it is not.
ESO+ was devalued when Chapters launched, I'm not sure I see the case that it's devalued with Seasons.

I really just want the craft bag at this point, being honest. I don't think that'll ever be sold on its own sadly

Gabriel_H · April 13

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

If ESO+ includes the dungeons already, and you have to buy the pass to get the zone (which also includes the dungeons), you are paying for them twice if there is no reduction in price for subscribing. You are paying $15 a month for Plus which includes dungeon DLC's as one of the perks and $50 for one adventure zone and the dungeons. You can try and argue semantics however you want, but you are paying for the dungeons twice if you subscribe.

You are paying $15 a month for past dungeon DLCs.

If they upped it to $16 dollars then you would be paying twice.

If they keep it at $15, then those who don't buy the season pass are getting the new dungeons for free.

Adding something to the subscription and not increasing the cost of the subscription is not paying twice - it isn't semantics, it's basic commerce.

Gabriel_H · April 13

agelonestar wrote: »

I’m less concerned about the direct cost - the difference between the season pass and a chapter isn’t enough to give me heart failure.

I am however irritated by the apparent constant erosion of ESO+. This year I’ll be paying for ESO+ as well as the “chapter” price, plus I’ll be paying an additional fee for the two dungeons and DLC content that used to be included in ESO+.

ZoS seems to believe that throwing in a furniture trunk balances the equation. Welcome as that is, it absolutely doesn’t. I really hope ZoS rethinks, and either adds more into the subscription to balance things out, or simply includes the ESO+ perks in the season pass.

... or they reduce the subscription cost based on what you own.

A while back, for the 10th anniversary they made some DLCs in the Crown Store free - did you complain about that? Because it is the same basic argument.

ThoraxtheDark · April 13

Really really poor decision making here by the team.

Vonnegut2506 · April 13

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

If ESO+ includes the dungeons already, and you have to buy the pass to get the zone (which also includes the dungeons), you are paying for them twice if there is no reduction in price for subscribing. You are paying $15 a month for Plus which includes dungeon DLC's as one of the perks and $50 for one adventure zone and the dungeons. You can try and argue semantics however you want, but you are paying for the dungeons twice if you subscribe.

You are paying $15 a month for past dungeon DLCs.

If they upped it to $16 dollars then you would be paying twice.

If they keep it at $15, then those who don't buy the season pass are getting the new dungeons for free.

Adding something to the subscription and not increasing the cost of the subscription is not paying twice - it isn't semantics, it's basic commerce.

If I pay a subscription for something, then I have to buy a package that includes the same thing, I am paying for it twice. That's not commerce, just plain common sense.

AzuraFan · April 13

Gabriel_H wrote: »

If they keep it at $15, then those who don't buy the season pass are getting the new dungeons for free.

Subscribers do not get anything for free. We PAY for our subscription. So we are already PAYING for those dungeons, EVERY SINGLE MONTH that we're subscribed. I don't know if you're being deliberately obtuse, or... well, I can't say it here.

I'd say I'm amazed that someone can state that we pay $15 and we're getting it for free in the same sentence and think it makes sense, but I'm not. I see people twisting themselves into knots all the time to justify something ZOS is doing that isn't justifiable. Blind company loyalty, I guess.

Pevey · April 13

The thing that doesn’t sit well with me isn’t paying twice for dungeons. That’s bad design and confusing, but to me not a deal breaker.

The thing that really annoys me is that they are doubling down on ESO+ as a paid solution for the game’s obvious inventory management issues. Which means they have no incentive to ever fix those issues and every incentive to keep making them worse. Many people will tell you they sub only for the craft bag. For many long-term players like me, there is nothing in the crown store that really interests them. I don’t need the crowns. I don’t want a sub for crowns. Those can just be bought separately if needed. It’s all about the craft bag, and ZOS knows it. And now they double down with the furniture vault idea.

It’s a terrible anti-consumer business model built on annoying your customers. You either deal without the sub and be annoyed by the game constantly, or you sub and be annoyed that you’ve succumbed to this predatory business practice. Either way, you’re annoyed. And annoying customers as a matter of course is not a good way to keep players happy.

I can easily pay the sub and have for many years (even when I wasn’t playing the game), but I’ve decided it’s time to stop supporting this. I would sub for something value added, but not for this. Not anymore.

(Edited to correct the auto-correct)

lillybit · April 13

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

If ESO+ includes the dungeons already, and you have to buy the pass to get the zone (which also includes the dungeons), you are paying for them twice if there is no reduction in price for subscribing. You are paying $15 a month for Plus which includes dungeon DLC's as one of the perks and $50 for one adventure zone and the dungeons. You can try and argue semantics however you want, but you are paying for the dungeons twice if you subscribe.

You are paying $15 a month for past dungeon DLCs.

If they upped it to $16 dollars then you would be paying twice.

If they keep it at $15, then those who don't buy the season pass are getting the new dungeons for free.

Adding something to the subscription and not increasing the cost of the subscription is not paying twice - it isn't semantics, it's basic commerce.

We aren't paying <insert local currency/exchange rate here> for past dungeons; we're paying <X> for all dungeons. As evidenced by the fact that subscribers who don't buy the content pass can still play the new ones.

As a consumer, there is absolutely no difference between a game pack that's available as part of subscription and one that was bought outright with cash. I've subscribed continuously for almost 10 years and won't stop until I uninstall or the servers close. So what practical benefit is it for me to "own" content available to me anyway?

The issue for me isn't just that I'm being forced to buy something I'm already paying to access. It isn't even that I'm forced to buy dungeons i don't want and rarely play.

This whole thing feels targeted at subscribers who wouldn't normally buy dungeon packs. It's a poor way to treat your biggest supporters.

Edited for the many typos!

TaSheen · April 13

Elrond87 wrote: »

[snip]

Already done on my way out the door.

[edited to remove quote]

ImmortalCX · April 13

Previous Model:
Major Chapter Zone ($30-50 paid)
Zone DLC (crowns or eso+)
Dungeon DLC 1 (crowns or eso+)
Dungeon DLC 2 (crowns or eso+)

New Model:
Major Chapter Expansion (does not exist)
Zone DLC (content pass)
Dungeon DLC 1 (content pass)
Dungeon DLC 2 (content pass)

Because there is no major chapter expansion, they are bunding a zone-sized DLC, and two Dungeon DLCs into a yearly content pass. You can argue that a small zone and two DLC is equivalent to a major chapter.

The first problem is a price increase. Previously, the "upgrade" to the yearly chapter was $30. Or $50 if you needed some missing chapters. With the content pass, you have to pay $50, even if you owned all previous chapters. This seems overpriced by $20.

The second problem is that legacy content is divorced from the content pass. Unlike buying a chapter expansion which could give you all missing backwards content depending on the version you buy, the content pass is only the current year's new zone and dungeons. If new player wants "most" content, they need to buy the base game ($20) + Gold Road w/ legacy ($50) + 2025 Content Pass ($50). And this doesn't even include all the legacy DLC, so they would need a $15 monthly on top. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this appears to represent a $50 price increase.

The third problem is that new DLCs are not crown purchaseable. So if someone bought the major chapter and/or eso+ they could grind gold or pay for DLCs with crowns. This also represents a price increase. Now you can't buy a specific dungeon pack you need, it is all or nothing. So if they introduce a dungeon set you want for a build, it is $50.

And fourth problem is value proposition for ESO+. This is difficult to quantify, but because it doesn't give the new dungeon DLCs, one of the primary incentives for subbing is gone. I think they could fix this by lowering the cost of ESO+. Make it $10 or less. The people who really get screwed are lifetime eso+ players, because if they didn't buy the DLC with crowns over the years, they basically have to stay subbed to keep accessing it without getting any new content.

I think to fix this and make it an equivalent value, they would have to do two things:

1) The $50 content pass would need to also include all the previous major chapters. Just like the $50 chapter expansions did. Or lower the price of the content pass to $30 to be in line with previous yearly content drop.

2) Lower ESO+ price to $10 or less.

Myself, I still have a few major expansion content to work through, so I can't see myself paying $50 for 2025 content pass. In fact, any new player coming to the game would be better served by buying the Gold Road+ version for $50 (which is essentially 9 years of major expansions), instead of the $50 content pass.

Just comparing the relative value shows how overpriced the 2025 content pass is. Players are not dumb and we recognize what this represents. Less content for more money,.

AngryPenguin · April 13

I have a couple open slots for new toons. So today I'm going to make a couple mules for materials and cancel ESO+ forever. There's just too much over monetization going on.

AngryPenguin · April 13

silky_soft wrote: »

3 accounts in my household will not participate in season pass.

Same. No season passes or ESO+ for my family either. The price point just shot up too much too fast.

celner4_ESO · April 14

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

[snip] if you don't want to pay it don't, it will all be available next year as part of ESO+. It's about the same price as Gold Road was last year but for significantly more content, a massive class system rework and a server wide community event, it's going to be epic, and is probably the only American item I will be purchasing this year. This is still a business with a lot of good people working for it to continually improve our gaming experience and keep ESO up to date and competitive, this all costs enormous amounts of money to do, [snip] This is less than I would pay by far to take my family to the cinema for a two hour movie but it will give you year long content and some nice bonus content, sigh.

[edited for baiting]

More content than GR?! I was under the impression Firor said this would cumulatively be the size of a Murkmire DLC, so the teams could focus more in improving the base game. I want Greymoore/Elswyr/Necrom hell they could even be a lot better than what those were if we are being honest especially when seeing what these Inde studios are capable of with so few people though I’m sure the lack of size/bureaucracy actually helps, but frankly I’m done making excuses for AAA.

But sure, if these seasons passes end up being very near the same sizes as those in total content in what’s purchased then you have my word I’ll ask to have the post closed. Even then the value based on the items within the season pass that normally comes with ESO+ simply is BAD. Not only that I’m VERY skeptical this rebranding was done to give us the same/more content and cost ZOS more money as a result. Thus far not what kind of company they are. Even Greymoore sized expansions could have more, maybe I’m spoiled from other game studios but it really does not seem to me like this company has leadership that wants to make ESO the best MMO. The current leadership seem to purely be focused on profit and not in gaining new players, getting veterans to return, upgrading the engine, the servers, investing in hiring teams that are competent to learn the current engine and bug fix / optimize, all things we’ve seen done in the more popular MMO’s that, when those improvements were made, saw large amounts of players return while maintaining their normal content releases. They were willing to invest back into the product for its longevity and for the customer experience. ESO is not getting that level of care in which it’s in dire need, and even if it did it would come at the cost of development because they do not wish to hire more talent to improve/maintain the game AND maintain large expansion releases. Shite bro there’s crown store, PAID premium items, that have been bugged for years and still not fixed like the bugged gloambound shield, and ones that were eventually fixed took more than 2 years, like the soul razor sword offhand affect not working.. 2 years!!! That is what you get when either leadership NOT giving the game enough attention, NOT making sure they're prioritizing bug fixing even if it means hiring more people to have competent bug fixing cadence or even in order to fix those things when under time constraints or heavy development load. What lightens that load? HIRE more talent!!!

I refuse to be told AGAIN on another game I loved “don’t worry bro itll work out great and be fine” like I had been told for Destiny 2 and SWTOR. NOPE. The writing has been on the walls, the canary has been in the coal mine, the trends are the same. This will not end up being pro customer and good product development. Mark my words.

phairdon · April 14

No way in hell am I going to pay for season passes.

ADarklore · April 14

Well, they did say years ago that ESO+ doesn't keep the lights on... and as a 'for profit' company, they need to find more ways to bring in extra money. I don't fault them for that. I don't think people understand how much it costs to keep a modern MMO running, adding content, upkeep, etc... and all of that requires a LOT of money. With player population dropping as other games come out, players get bored, etc... they need to find ways of replacing the revenue lost when players leave.

So it doesn't surprise me that they are trying to find ways to get ESO+ members to pay more- by not including content or making some content redundant. Again, I don't fault them for this- they are a business and not a charity. If population was high, they could afford to be more generous... but at this point, they are in need of constant cash flow coming in to keep the game going and continue further development.