I'm Appalled at the Season Pass / ESO+ Value Proposition

celner4_ESO · April 10

So not only are we asked to partake in the season pass which so far IS going to be less content for a 50$ purchase than Chapters were, ESO+ subscription does not include the season pass??? Not even Destiny 2 tries to weasel in a premium Sub fee to enjoy extra gameplay features while still charging for what used to be large DLC releases (now bungie has reverted to the same thing as ESO is doing, minus the sub fee, and players of D2 thus far have been very vocal about hating it save for the heavily moderated reddit pages). If we were getting the same or more content, then I'd not be unhappy at all. But knowing that we are NOT getting the same amount of content as we were with Chapters which were already lackluster for several reasons (ZOS or their higher ups being completely unwilling to hire more in order to keep up with bugs and upgrade/improve the game in significant ways to keep current players interested and bring old players back while still releasing full sized chapter DLC's), but this 100% is not the case. IF we were getting more for our purchase (in graphical improvements, bug fixing for that ungodly laundry list of bugs, server upgrades/improvements, QoL features and player requested features, all this separate from content which should already be there and be good) we'd have seen the required investment back into the game in order to do this while maintaining the normal Chapter releases, which so far has NOT happened.

Sufficed to say my mom and I are extremely disappointed in the direction of the game and its current value proposition. I am NOT at all convinced that the extra perks (likely being FOMO related TOO) will make up for the loss in content with the normal Chapter updates not happening anymore for the Foreseeable future save for maybe 1 that was already on deck..? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE ZOS ask for more funding to invest back into the product and actually give us something worth investing into. WHY would you copy the monetization and content creation model of Destiny 2?? I played that game all the way up to The Witch Queen and we got the same promises of bigger and better content which was a blatant lie by their leadership. They've lost more than half of their active player base because of the changes and it's still dropping (always trust the graph) which forced a response from Bungie leadership to "try" and do better for future content releases since it was not as promised.

WHY wouldn't you want to emulate Grinding Gear Games live service model instead?? Where the players are getting an amazing value proposition which has garnered the company insane support through their MTX store from the players who want to invest into the game because they know what they're getting is plentiful and worth the investment. I know why, because passion and vision for the product are not with the current leadership. Portfolio value and profit is what's with the current leadership. I don't understand how this is allowed to happen when it's so obvious this only hurts customer trust and the product. This game has such potential and it's so far squandered because of the lack of passion and vision in the current leadership to make it great, the lack of investment to execute that vision, with profit/revenue being priority #1. Any great product out there like say PoE1 & PoE2 has such success because profit and revenue follow after the prioritization of the PRODUCT.

This truly aches my heart because I want the game to be what I know it can be. Not because I want to hate the game, and not because I want to hurt the staff. I loved the game!! I wish so badly it would receive the love it deserved. And the current state with the change to Season Pass's and ESO+ not including those seasons shows the level of greed we are dealing with when they ALREADY will be making us less overall content because of this change (BEACUSE they refuse to hire more to be able to do the graphical updates and improvements WHILE maintaining the Big DLC chapter releases) and it baffles me that ESO's leadership think they can get away with completely screwing the customer.

Castagere · April 11

For me, it's a pass only because two of the content updates are dungeons for groups, which I never do. I would have just wanted to buy the new story zones.

Soarora · April 11

Castagere wrote: »

For me, it's a pass only because two of the content updates are dungeons for groups, which I never do. I would have just wanted to buy the new story zones.

The season pass is cheaper by about 15 dollars than if you were to buy a chapter and a story zone in the year-long story format, unless you bought the story dlc using eso+ crowns.

AzuraFan · April 11

Soarora wrote: »

Castagere wrote: »

For me, it's a pass only because two of the content updates are dungeons for groups, which I never do. I would have just wanted to buy the new story zones.

The season pass is cheaper by about 15 dollars than if you were to buy a chapter and a story zone in the year-long story format, unless you bought the story dlc using eso+ crowns.

Except nobody has bought a Q4 story zone DLC for the past 3 years (it was dropped last year and given away for free the two years before that), and the annual chapters have been shrinking. Also, the OP stated that they subscribe to ESO+, so they would also be paying for two dungeons they don't need.

Soarora · April 11

AzuraFan wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Castagere wrote: »

For me, it's a pass only because two of the content updates are dungeons for groups, which I never do. I would have just wanted to buy the new story zones.

The season pass is cheaper by about 15 dollars than if you were to buy a chapter and a story zone in the year-long story format, unless you bought the story dlc using eso+ crowns.

Except nobody has bought a Q4 story zone DLC for the past 3 years (it was dropped last year and given away for free the two years before that), and the annual chapters have been shrinking. Also, the OP stated that they subscribe to ESO+, so they would also be paying for two dungeons they don't need.

OP has ESO+, but I was talking to Castagere, who said they would've bought the new story zones, which I took to mean a chapter and a story dlc worth.

Castagere · April 11

Soarora wrote: »

Castagere wrote: »

For me, it's a pass only because two of the content updates are dungeons for groups, which I never do. I would have just wanted to buy the new story zones.

The season pass is cheaper by about 15 dollars than if you were to buy a chapter and a story zone in the year-long story format, unless you bought the story dlc using eso+ crowns.

I don't want to be forced to pay for content I don't want, so I can have the new zone content. I would have liked to just buy worm cults part 1 and 2 only.

Soarora · April 11

Castagere wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Castagere wrote: »

For me, it's a pass only because two of the content updates are dungeons for groups, which I never do. I would have just wanted to buy the new story zones.

The season pass is cheaper by about 15 dollars than if you were to buy a chapter and a story zone in the year-long story format, unless you bought the story dlc using eso+ crowns.

I don't want to be forced to pay for content I don't want, so I can have the new zone content. I would have liked to just buy worm cults part 1 and 2 only.

The way I see it is that you're not really paying for content you don't want considering it's less expensive as a bundle compared to just buying a chapter and a story dlc. Compared to year-long story, it seems more you're paying for the chapter, get a discount on the story dlc, and get the dungeons free. You would pay more if you bought part 1 and 2 separately at the chapter + story dlc price. Having the dungeon dlcs are only a problem if you don't want to do dlcs in your random dungeons. If you're a purely solo player, you can actually do most dungeons solo (or with companion) on normal if that's ever of interest to you.

celner4_ESO · April 11

Soarora wrote: »

Castagere wrote: »

For me, it's a pass only because two of the content updates are dungeons for groups, which I never do. I would have just wanted to buy the new story zones.

The season pass is cheaper by about 15 dollars than if you were to buy a chapter and a story zone in the year-long story format, unless you bought the story dlc using eso+ crowns.

There will be significantly less content based on how the dev teams described what a season pass would be and what is included in terms of raw content such as what's received from a normal "Expansion" EVEN with the season pass spread out content all together would be less than the normal expansion by up to or more than half as much i.e. Murkmire vs. Summerset or Morrowind or any of the other Expansions that released 1 or two new zones and the quests and achievements/collectibles PD's / Delves / Arena's that all came with that. So around half the amount of content is removed (there will be full breakdowns of what all is missing from the season pass compared to our normal chapter expansions and these will be put up on youtube.

Secondly they already charge a subscription fee that would normally include this kind of small scale content drop within the subscription. But now you must buy both if you want to enjoy the separated benefits both have to give (obviously this was done on purpose to encourage buying both). It's completely manipulative, dishonest, and insulting. It absolutely, 100% is not the same, and is a complete ripoff in its current iteration. An OBVIOUS cash grab. It's worse than even what Destiny 2 did with changing their seasonal format and dropping expansions (in which they bold faced lied about us getting more content for the same price, it turned out to be less content for the same price, great for business though, F*ck the customer/fans). And that's saying something. In a very NOT good way.

Charging near the same price for a small content drop spread throughout the entire year from what we otherwise normally would have gotten for having ESO+. every 3 months what are we getting like 5 main line quests a week drip feed kind of thing which is certainly what it sounded like probably spliced into smaller bits to give the appearance of "so many quests" when in actuality there's busy work filler and less actual story and lore (Same thing Destiny 2 did though not quite as bad for various reasons like they have no monthly subscription which adds QoL features to the game and whatever else, they still do new content drops though they are about 1/8 the size of the last expansion they did)? No new Zone(s)? No new Public Dungeons unless they are revamping old ones in which case we'd lose the old one? Delves? All of the quests and Achievements / collectibles associated with what would have been the new Zones with all those new things? New enemy npc's? All this so they can actually put manpower to improving the base game because they're COMPLETELY unwilling to hire more people to maintain the content cadence and quality? Blows my mind. There is NO WAY this is just one big misunderstanding.

There is a reason they aren't being completely forthright with the amount of new content we'd be missing compared to Chapters. Saw this same exact playbook from Bungie with D2 and look where that got the game and player base They pay the SAME for 1/3 to HALF as much content. Again this is just a scam. a Cash Grab which is great for business but a middle finger to the fans/customers. Around 15million$ a month from the cash shop alone yet ZOS couldn't afford to maintain normal expansions AND fix/improve/upgrade the game?!?! It's completely asinine and indefensible.

Pevey · April 11

Originally, ESO+ was meant to include exactly the sort of content releases described today. Then, with Morrowind, they decided to charge extra, and they came up with the name "chapter" to explain this. It was a name meant to differentiate it from DLC, since DLC was supposed to be what ESO+ gave you. Now, no chapters, and ESO+ simply does not include DLC. That is what this all boils down to.

shadyjane62 · April 11

Simple solution for me. I was already not going to do a year sub for ESO+ now I'm not going to do a season pass that has too much theory crafting and dungeons I never play.

The last few years in ESO has found me left behind already. This is will take the game in a direction I don't want to go.

LonePirate · April 11

I have to disagree with the OP related to the Season Pass being of less value than the Chapter package. Previously if you bought a chapter, you received only the content released in Q2 tied to the new zone in the Chapter. With the Season Pass, you receive the content in Q1, Q2, Q3 and Q4. For most of the Chapter years, that four quarters would produce 4 dungeons, a big zone and a mini-zone but you only received the big zone. Now you receive all of that.

If you want to make a case that the Season Pass devalues ESO+ since the Q1, Q3 and Q4 stuff you get to access (but not own) with ESO+ is included to own with the Season Pass, go for it.

celner4_ESO · April 11

Pevey wrote: »

Originally, ESO+ was meant to include exactly the sort of content releases described today. Then, with Morrowind, they decided to charge extra, and they came up with the name "chapter" to explain this. It was a name meant to differentiate it from DLC, since DLC was supposed to be what ESO+ gave you. Now, no chapters, and ESO+ simply does not include DLC. That is what this all boils down to.

And it is so so SO infuriating.

Aliniel · April 11

LonePirate wrote: »

I have to disagree with the OP related to the Season Pass being of less value than the Chapter package. Previously if you bought a chapter, you received only the content released in Q2 tied to the new zone in the Chapter. With the Season Pass, you receive the content in Q1, Q2, Q3 and Q4. For most of the Chapter years, that four quarters would produce 4 dungeons, a big zone and a mini-zone but you only received the big zone. Now you receive all of that.

If you want to make a case that the Season Pass devalues ESO+ since the Q1, Q3 and Q4 stuff you get to access (but not own) with ESO+ is included to own with the Season Pass, go for it.

You own nothing, buddy. It's all licenses. Even if you "buy" something, it's still just a license to use it indefinitely. ESO+ is licensing you to use it while subscribed.

That being said, ESO+ is losing value, because now you pay TWICE for the DLCs (Dungeons and Zone DLC). First by paying for the Content Pass (which is the only way to get access to the new zone), and then second time by paying for the ESO+.

Also, with the chapter system, you could choose what to buy. It was more modular. Don't play dungeons? Fine - don't buy them! This choice is now gone.

ESO+ should simply give you access to all of this. They keep changing the words, but the fact remains the same - these are all DLCs.

Oh, and I just realized - this new system also means NO NEW DLC THIS YEAR.

tsaescishoeshiner · April 11

This is what people requested. A flexible release schedule (when content is ready and makes sense together) and free basegame updates focused on ongoing enjoyment of the game, endgame systems, and new players. We're even getting the next closest to class change tokens and got a data-driven approach to fixing Cyrodiil performance.

Since there's no evidence that this is less content than previously (it actually looks like way more to me, and high quality), I can't see the cynical angle of it. We're getting more than last year (maybe getting so much this year is why?).

I'm looking forward to this year. I can't say it'll be what everyone wants, I just don't see the cynical angle here.

We didn't hear or see how much content the new zone has, so saying we're getting vastly less content sounds like an empty guess to me. Or like the opposite of wishful thinking lol. Dooming blindly. Although to be fair, we didn't see much of the new zone or get the details, so maybe that's why it seems less to some people.

cptscotty · April 11

LonePirate wrote: »

I have to disagree with the OP related to the Season Pass being of less value than the Chapter package. Previously if you bought a chapter, you received only the content released in Q2 tied to the new zone in the Chapter. With the Season Pass, you receive the content in Q1, Q2, Q3 and Q4. For most of the Chapter years, that four quarters would produce 4 dungeons, a big zone and a mini-zone but you only received the big zone. Now you receive all of that.

If you want to make a case that the Season Pass devalues ESO+ since the Q1, Q3 and Q4 stuff you get to access (but not own) with ESO+ is included to own with the Season Pass, go for it.

What unique content system is being released with the Season Pass?

Last chapter which is cheaper had scribing, one had mythics and scrying, others had new classes. Some form of new unique content for the game, even if it was as niche as tales of tribute. As far as I am aware...this year pass which is starting 6 months late doesn't include any of that and its priced almost doubled that of a singular chapter upgrade.

Was a unique content system mentioned for this new model?

silky_soft · April 11

3 accounts in my household will not participate in season pass.

LonePirate · April 11

cptscotty wrote: »

As far as I am aware...this year pass which is starting 6 months late doesn't include any of that and it’s priced almost doubled that of a singular chapter upgrade.

In the US, the Season Pass upgrade is the same price as the Chapter upgrade from prior years. The trade off of a unique new system for four dungeons and a second zone makes it a better value than prior years. If you are in another country and the price difference between the two is large, perhaps due to the tariffs mess, then it may not be a good value. To me, the Season Pass upgrade price is a good deal.

Thysbe · April 11

cptscotty wrote: »

Was a unique content system mentioned for this new model?

ehm subclassing - which has a massive impact imo

licenturion · April 11

LonePirate wrote: »

cptscotty wrote: »

As far as I am aware...this year pass which is starting 6 months late doesn't include any of that and it’s priced almost doubled that of a singular chapter upgrade.

In the US, the Season Pass upgrade is the same price as the Chapter upgrade from prior years. The trade off of a unique new system for four dungeons and a second zone makes it a better value than prior years. If you are in another country and the price difference between the two is large, perhaps due to the tariffs mess, then it may not be a good value. To me, the Season Pass upgrade price is a good deal.

People keep saying 'second zone'

THERE IS NO SECOND ZONE. It is one regular zone divided in two with the community event wall.

Steam has new rules that all season pass content must be timed and explained in detail. It says 'Explore the second half of the new zone and bring the Seasons of the Worm Cult saga to its ultimate conclusion.' So no second zone for this year. What you get is act 1 of the story, community event, second act of the story. Also 4 dungeons and a bunch of cosmetics that were previously only in the deluxe pre-order versions.

Think of it as High Isle map, but with the boat travel to Amenos disabled until the winter.

Scraelos · April 11

As a ESO plus members we are now forced to pay for DLC dungeons TWICE, because there is no way we can buy new "chapter" without these DLCs.
This was legit when you had to buy content separately either buy ESO Plus to access it. No way this is fair in 2025.
I request discount on Season Pass for all ESO Plus members or full access for ALL content as it was intended to be for subscription model.

PapaTankers · April 11

Thysbe wrote: »

cptscotty wrote: »

Was a unique content system mentioned for this new model?

ehm subclassing - which has a massive impact imo

Sublcassing is going to be free for everyone.

Scraelos · April 11

LonePirate wrote: »

cptscotty wrote: »

As far as I am aware...this year pass which is starting 6 months late doesn't include any of that and it’s priced almost doubled that of a singular chapter upgrade.

In the US, the Season Pass upgrade is the same price as the Chapter upgrade from prior years. The trade off of a unique new system for four dungeons and a second zone makes it a better value than prior years. If you are in another country and the price difference between the two is large, perhaps due to the tariffs mess, then it may not be a good value. To me, the Season Pass upgrade price is a good deal.

For me this is not good deal because as ESO Plus member I already have access to these DLC dungeons.
With season pass they force me to pay twice for new DLC dungeons access.

GloatingSwine · April 11

Thysbe wrote: »

cptscotty wrote: »

Was a unique content system mentioned for this new model?

ehm subclassing - which has a massive impact imo

Pretty sure subclassing is coming as a base game feature.

The actual impact on the ESO+ value proposition is that the new content includes what seems to be a one-and-done group event which will be gone forever if you wait for the new content at ESO+ pace* and the feeling like you're paying again for something that would normally be covered by your sub with the dungeon packs.

The content pass is considerably worse value than the old Collection packs for new players, given that its premium edition is required to get previous chapter content, and it has somewhat reduced the value proposition of ESO+ in future but not as dramatically as it has for newcomers.

*Or much earlier, the classic outcome of these things is that the developers massively underestimate how quickly a game community can churn through objectives.

robwolf666 · April 11

Castagere wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Castagere wrote: »

For me, it's a pass only because two of the content updates are dungeons for groups, which I never do. I would have just wanted to buy the new story zones.

The season pass is cheaper by about 15 dollars than if you were to buy a chapter and a story zone in the year-long story format, unless you bought the story dlc using eso+ crowns.

I don't want to be forced to pay for content I don't want, so I can have the new zone content. I would have liked to just buy worm cults part 1 and 2 only.

That's a problem I have with it too - I have zero interest in Dungeons, so I'd be forced to buy content I wouldn't use.

Mathius_Mordred · April 11

[snip] if you don't want to pay it don't, it will all be available next year as part of ESO+. It's about the same price as Gold Road was last year but for significantly more content, a massive class system rework and a server wide community event, it's going to be epic, and is probably the only American item I will be purchasing this year. This is still a business with a lot of good people working for it to continually improve our gaming experience and keep ESO up to date and competitive, this all costs enormous amounts of money to do, [snip] This is less than I would pay by far to take my family to the cinema for a two hour movie but it will give you year long content and some nice bonus content, sigh.

[edited for baiting]

Scraelos · April 11

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

[snip] if you don't want to pay it don't, it will all be available next year as part of ESO+. It's about the same price as Gold Road was last year but for significantly more content, a massive class system rework and a server wide community event, it's going to be epic, and is probably the only American item I will be purchasing this year. This is still a business with a lot of good people working for it to continually improve our gaming experience and keep ESO up to date and competitive, this all costs enormous amounts of money to do, [snip] This is less than I would pay by far to take my family to the cinema for a two hour movie but it will give you year long content and some nice bonus content, sigh.

Will be available is some kind of joke.
Non ESO plus members had to wait april 10 to play new dungeons or pay ESO plus membership.
ESO plus members have to wait next year to play new chapter or pay for season pass.

What is it USSR queues simulator?

[edited to remove quote]

licenturion · April 11

Scraelos wrote: »

ESO plus members have to wait next year to play new chapter or pay for season pass.

For some reason ESO+ members seem to think they now have to get everything 100 percent for free as part of their subscription. This was not the case before either.

The value proposition of ESO+ is the same. You get a whole of extra's like crafting bag, all previous chapters, all DLC (including the new dungeons if you don't have the season/chapter pass), dye system, extra bank space, extra transmutes, shorter timers, extra gold+XP, 2 companions, deals. They also are adding the furniture bag as a new feature.

And you get all that stuff basically 100 percent refunded in crowns to spend on stuff. So how exactly would they make money to pay those 100 of people making new content, do playtests, keep servers running and pay for bandwidth.

I do agree with others that they also should make the zone buyable separately for people that are not interested in dungeons. They now have to buy 4 items they don't need. This would also be a fix for the people that have ESO+ to pay a bit less.

But it is clear that they acknowledged a lot of people actually want to buy to own stuff and not be forced into a subscription. They said it a few times during the main event and post show 'you own this stuff, this is yours without subscription' . They also had to put out multiple clarifications about the Fallen Banner dungeons because a lot of players were very unhappy about this. So I am pretty happy that they will always see ESO+ as some additional optional service with some perks and not something that is mandatory to play stuff or get early access. So that is a big win for a lot of players who hate subscriptions.

scrappy1342 · April 11

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

[snip] if you don't want to pay it don't, it will all be available next year as part of ESO+. It's about the same price as Gold Road was last year but for significantly more content, a massive class system rework and a server wide community event, it's going to be epic, and is probably the only American item I will be purchasing this year. This is still a business with a lot of good people working for it to continually improve our gaming experience and keep ESO up to date and competitive, this all costs enormous amounts of money to do, [snip] This is less than I would pay by far to take my family to the cinema for a two hour movie but it will give you year long content and some nice bonus content, sigh.

have not seen anything from zos saying that the new content is going to go to eso+ at all, which is what worries me because i never agreed with their chapter pricing anyways. you are paying twice as much as you would get from other mmo's with a fraction of the content that most ppl get through in a week or less

[edited to remove quote]

scrappy1342 · April 11

LonePirate wrote: »

In the US, the Season Pass upgrade is the same price as the Chapter upgrade from prior years. The trade off of a unique new system for four dungeons and a second zone makes it a better value than prior years. If you are in another country and the price difference between the two is large, perhaps due to the tariffs mess, then it may not be a good value. To me, the Season Pass upgrade price is a good deal.

it's showing $50 for me for the season pass in the US. chapters were always $40.

Eldartar · April 11

For me, it's a matter of choice, as life is, and I have already bought the "Upgrade" Season pass @ £42.99 (GBP). I have bought the previous 8 Chapter releases and I have my ESO+ subscription because I choose to.

I have played this game since Beta and love it, it's a haven for my mental health (PTSD & Clinical Depression) Yes it has changed so very much since launch, some good, some not so good but you adapt and overcome and move forward or you leave and move on to other things.

The Game is not perfect for everyone, no game can be. What you may find amazing in the game others might hate.

But without change, things become stagnant and in the end, die a slow, painful death.

I am excited for this coming year, others may not be, and I respect that, but I am and can't wait for June to hit.

Faulgor · April 11

ESO+ was explicitly introduced as a subcription that includes all DLC. Ever since, ZOS keeps shifting the definition of what it considers DLC, and for some reason people keep defending this.

Chapters were sold under the promise that this model would allow for larger zones, more gameplay systems and the like compared to smaller zone DLC. And the first chapter *did* include a large zone and two new gameplay systems, which is why people grudgingly became used to chapters.

There is absolutely *nothing* in this season pass that would'nt've been part of a DLC in prior years. A small zone with a Trial? That's Thieves Guild. Another small zone? That's Southern Elsweyr. All of this should be part of ESO+.

If you are okay with any of this, you are the proverbial frog in boiling water.