Breton passive problem

Demalb16_ESO · April 1

Hello, I was thinking to change the race on one of my healer form high helf to breton for the 7% cost reduction on magicka skills. Before doing it I tried modifing the race on the PTS and made some calculation.
Previous magicka cost of ability 4190, cost after changing the race 3931. with a reduction of 7% should cost 3897. I was wandering if I was missing something so i did some experiment.
I eliminated every passive that I had active bringing them all to zero redistributing the skill points and i did the confront again with breton without and with the 7% cost reduction.
I'll take a couple of skills as example (the pg is a necromancer).
Render flesh cost before reduction 4190, after reduction 3931 equal to little more than 6%, not 7%.
Grand healing cost before reduction 3405, after reduction 3194, still 6% and not 7%.

So I tested also the jewels glyph reduction where the reduction is not expressed in % but it's a flat ammount. 3 glyph at max level should grant a 203X3=609 cost reduction. I tested it on the same skills as before.
Render flesh cost before reduction 4190, cost after reduction 3600 for an effective reduction of 590 not 609
Grand healing cost before reduction 3405, after reduction 2814 for an effective reduction of 591 not 609.

If I add the 2 bonuses Render fresh pass from 4190 to 3377. Now u can apply the 7% reduction before the glyphs or after but the worst case is still over what it should have been. 3377 instead of 3330 for a difference of 1%.

Am I missing something? Am I beeing too fiscal?

Arthtur · April 1

Base cost of Render Flesh is 4320.
Base cost of Grand Healing is 3510.
You already have some sort of cost reduction and thats why the numbers are off.

Demalb16_ESO · April 1

You are right but the numbers still don't add up. I didn't count the reduction of expunge, that is a 3% cost reduction, that was slotted at the time. now redoing the calc:

If u use it singularly
starting cost 4320 - expunge 3% = 4190
starting cost 4320 - breton 7%= 4018

and if u use them alone the numbers add up but if u use both of them that's another story. u can combine them in 3 way.
adding the subtraction for a discount of 10% and the result should be
starting cost 4320 - 10% = 3888
subtracting first one and after the other:
starting cost 4320 - 7%(302,4) - 3%(120,5) = 3897,1
starting cost 4320 - 3%(129,6) - 7%(293,3) = 3897,1
since 4320 x 0,97 x 0,93 = 4320 x 0,93 x 0,97 = 3897,1 for a discount of 9,8% instead of 10%

In the game with both reduction up the cost is 3931 for a reduction of 9%. The 1% is still missing

The only way the numbers add up is if u add 10% from 3931 that is the discaunted cost and u have 4324,1 that is almost 4320 but how can u start the count from the discounted price and add the discount instead of starting form the cost and subtracting the discount???

Demalb16_ESO · April 1

For the glyphs the calc if u add them before or after are these:

if u consider the bonus divided 7%+3% or viceversa
(4320-609) *0,97*0,93 = 3079
(4320*0,97*0,93) -609 = 3532

if u add the bonuses for a 10% reduction

(4320-609)*0,9 =3393,9
(4320*0.9)-609 =3279

cost in game 3377 with -3%-7% -glyphs (-609) that is different from any combination i tried....

again if i take the discounted price and add 10% and add 609 i get 4323,4 that is fairly close to the starting cost. but this is not how math works because it reduces the discount to 9%.

u don't put something that costed 100 to sale at 91 saying that u applyed a 10% discount. Even if u add 10% of 91 u reach a little over 100 that's not a 10% discount. The 10% of 91 is different from the 10% of 100.

Arthtur · April 1

Because the numbers always round up.

0.97 x 0.93 = 0.9021

But the server rounds it up to 0.91

So 4320 x 0.91 = 3931.2

Demalb16_ESO · April 1

Arthtur wrote: »

Because the numbers always round up.

0.97 x 0.93 = 0.9021

But the server rounds it up to 0.91

So 4320 x 0.91 = 3931.2

.... so in practice u loose almost 1% of the bonus... That sucks. this is like rounding up 0.2 to 1.......
they should make those bonuses additive to avoid this problem

the1andonlyskwex · April 1

Demalb16_ESO wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

Because the numbers always round up.

0.97 x 0.93 = 0.9021

But the server rounds it up to 0.91

So 4320 x 0.91 = 3931.2

.... so in practice u loose almost 1% of the bonus... That sucks. this is like rounding up 0.2 to 1.......
they should make those bonuses additive to avoid this problem

They don't make them additive because then you could potentially stack % cost decreases all the way down to free.

That said, rounding up to the next 1/100 is still an odd choice. The rounding is just extra computation if they're using floating point math, and if they're using integer math they would want to round to something like the next 1/128 or 1/256.

Demalb16_ESO · April 1

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Demalb16_ESO wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

Because the numbers always round up.

0.97 x 0.93 = 0.9021

But the server rounds it up to 0.91

So 4320 x 0.91 = 3931.2

.... so in practice u loose almost 1% of the bonus... That sucks. this is like rounding up 0.2 to 1.......
they should make those bonuses additive to avoid this problem

They don't make them additive because then you could potentially stack % cost decreases all the way down to free.

That said, rounding up to the next 1/100 is still an odd choice. The rounding is just extra computation if they're using floating point math, and if they're using integer math they would want to round to something like the next 1/128 or 1/256.

They culd make additive only the racial bonus. I find difficult to be lieve u can reach 100% reduction.

Vevvev · April 7

Part of the reason Mistform and similar skills got so radically changed and adjusted after getting turned into toggles that cost a small amount of resources every tick was due to the fact players did get really clever with reducing the costs to basically free.

Demalb16_ESO · April 7

Vevvev wrote: »

Part of the reason Mistform and similar skills got so radically changed and adjusted after getting turned into toggles that cost a small amount of resources every tick was due to the fact players did get really clever with reducing the costs to basically free.

I can understand but for me one thing is a "discaunt given by slotting a skill" or some other perk and another is to have a racial bonus being cannibalized by other bonus. You build the character around class and race, it diminishes the flavor of the character. They could do "racial bonus + (bonus1*bonus2*ecc ecc)".
But probably I simply hate the discrepancy between what is written and what is "real". Or put a disclaimer: if u add multple bonus the total will be reduced by 1% that is what u loose if u do the math.

for instace if we take multiple bonus of 3% and round them up:
1 bonus : 3%
2 bonus : 5%
3 bonus : 8%
4 bonus : 11%
5 bonus : 14%

I don't understand all this for a change of 1%