Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?

I was able to get into large scale battles that were much larger and longer than normal in Gray Host. I didn’t disconnect at all, but I came close at a couple of large fights. The fights were amazing and reminded me of what PVP was like at launch.

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?

Performance was markedly improved
considering the scale and duration of the fights. It was lots of fun and the balance and performance was excellent. As a long time player, this was as good a PVP experience as I’ve seen in years.

What you think of the simplified abilities?

The simplified abilities are very nice and improve performance and ease of access to PvP. The changes made skills that were previously deemed “useless”, viable again. However, a bit of variability with weapon lines and guild lines could help provide some needed variability in builds. Otherwise, it was great!


Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc?

No, not once and the lack of “combat bug” and ability to mount almost immediately was excellent!

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?

I loved it and hope that some changes are made to it, but I hope it becomes permanent. People will *** and moan about it, but I remember what the game was like at launch and what it has become is nothing like the original experience. Proc sets, massive AOE’s, unkillable builds, exploiting over powered sets originally intended for PVE (etc etc) was not a thing. The game pretty much started to go down hill as far as PVP is concerned after the first batch of sets after launch came out. Then CP tipped the scales. Being able to use sets that have been altered for PVP seems to be an ESO specific, self inflicted wound.

Do you have any general feedback?

Make some mild changes to Vengeance for stam builds and weapon/guild skill lines, otherwise, it’s excellent!

I've been a lab rat for PvP tests enough already. So I'll keep my feedback to a minimum because I don't think any feedback I've ever given was taken into account. That's why I uninstalled the PTS.

If ZOS ever mandates a version of the vengeance mode for Cyrodiil ya'll are going to lose the last of what little remains of the PvP community. There is no skill gap and basically no PvP with vengeance mode. It's just whichever zerg is bigger wins. I could go on with a detailed response, but it seems a waste of time after having left so much feedback on other issues in the past. (think jabs animation feedback by nearly everyone has been totally ignored)

Just don't ever mandate vengeance mode please. It's boring and mindless. It's not competitive in any way. It's a totally different game played on the same map.

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?

I did. Everything from field fights to tri-faction keep defenses.

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?

I experienced no server lag and the combat felt responsive. The combat of some classes was fun I'd say, at least for a bit. However, I wonder if it's too simple to be enjoyable in the long run.

What you think of the simplified abilities?

I didn't hate simple abilities. In the case of the Arcanist, the simplification was quite fun. In the case of the Sorcerer, by contrast, it was rather miserable. I think the simple abilities we had would benefit from simplified weapon abilities, or simplified abilities from other skill lines. Those additions might add some variety and supplement the tool kit of specific classes/playstyles.

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?

I liked it and I hope you build on it in ways that maintain its massiveness, its ease of access, its simple character, and the absence of server lag.

Do you have any general feedback?

I don't think you've ever had a better entry to pvp for new players than Vengeance. Here are some of the reasons why:
Even field: old and new players have the same "sets" (none), the same standard abilities, and the same stats.

There are no predators in the field besides the zerg, and any one player can be a part of a zerg. There are no one-shot gankers, ball groups, troll tanks, bombers, or "1vxer" veterans dunking on inexperienced and new players. Although each of these are playstyles enabled by the current iteration of the game, I think it's rather clear that they were not missed.

I've tried endlessly over the years to get pvp players from other MMORPGs to try out ESO. None of them stuck around after trying Cyrodiil in whichever version its current iteration was when they joined. Having the CP and gear grind ahead of you while getting dunked on in one or two swings by veterans is a terrible experience. In a scene where there are other MMORPGs with lower barriers of entry to PvP and learning curves that are not as steep, trying to retain new players in Cyro and ESO's pvp has been, in my experience, almost impossible.

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?
Yes, I was able to engage in several large-scale battles.

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?
Overall, it was amazing! Combat was fairly responsive most of the time, though in extremely large battles, I did experience occasional stuttering. It took a little time to adjust, but once I did, the experience was a lot of fun.

What you think of the simplified abilities?
At first, I wasn’t a fan, but once I adjusted, I really enjoyed it. It felt like I was returning to what my character class was designed to do, which made for a more engaging experience. It also encouraged me to work more closely with my group, adding a layer of challenge that I found really rewarding. Interestingly, when I switched back to my usual characters for questing, I appreciated their custom builds even more.

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc?
A few times, when there were too many players on screen, I would randomly get a loading screen. However, it never fully kicked me from the game. Unfortunately, I didn’t log the exact times, but I experienced this issue on three separate occasions during the campaign.

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?
I really enjoyed this experience! It made PvP feel more strategic and encouraged collaboration, which was great to see. Cyrodiil hasn’t always been accessible for everyone, and certain playstyles (like ball groups/ganking) have discouraged many players from participating. This campaign felt like a fresh take that allowed more players to contribute meaningfully. I think every day I played, I was saying how much I enjoyed it. I’ve spent a lot of time building up my character and amour to play in Cyrodiil, and I don’t mind a bit that I didn’t get to use any of it during this campaign.

I hope Champions/Vengeance becomes a permanent feature or at least an option for those who enjoy this playstyle. It felt fair, challenging, and engaging. Many players seemed to thrive in this environment; it was encouraging to see a lot of players being able to hold their own on a level playing field, and when more "advanced" players struggled in these scenarios and voiced complaints, it highlighted an interesting shift in the balance of play.

Do you have any general feedback?
If this becomes a permanent feature, one thing I’d love to see improved is the riding speed; it felt a bit slow, which impacted the pacing of travel across the map.

Great work on Vengeance! The skybox was stunning, the test itself was really well done, and it was heartwarming to see so many players participating and enjoying the experience.

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?
Yes, many.

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?
From a tech standpoint, I encountered a loading screen once, and that was it. Towards the end there was a bit of a lag with taking a potion, but other than that it was pretty responsive.

What you think of the simplified abilities?
It was frustrating to learn at first, but by the end of the test I was actually really happy with my character's performance and how balanced everything felt. I loved that you had to play your class, and by the end it felt like every class had a role - hearing the DK chains pulling people into a killbox; seeing the warden trees while sieging a door - it felt like every class had something to do. I played on my templar and necro and found it easy to find my niche for both fighting and defense.

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?
I was confused at first with how no proc, no CP, no buffs, no anything would work. By mid-way through I was actually really happy with how much fun anyone could have playing. I'm an experienced PvPer, but I could go rolling in with people who were much better than I am at PvP in general, as well as people who were trying it out for the first time. You don't need gear, you don't need crazy CP, you just need to know your skills and learn the strategy so it became about the Three Banners War and not about the set procs of doom. Combat felt FUN. No hulks, no bombs, no ball groups.

I'll also say - playing for AD, by the end of the campaign, faction morale was super high. Chat was overwhelmingly positive and helpful, and there were a lot of familiar names so it felt very much like a community. By the end a lot of people were lamenting Cyro going back because it's so easy to have fun on this mode.

Also only having one campaign meant the fights were HUGE. It was exciting to see so many AD rolling over a hill or standing on a flag (which would normally be bomb-bait!) I took a bunch of screenshots, I've never seen so many people in one place before, it was a lot of fun. I think the reason for the fun is because of the performance, the number of people, and that the more frustrating elements (ball groups, hulks, bombers) were not present.

Do you have any general feedback?
I think this was a significant risk - knowing how strongly people feel about PvP and the constraints re: servers. But I think this went really well. It's the most fun I've had in Cyro in a long time, and the most fun I've had in game in a bit too. I'm sure there's room to balance abilities/items and server performance, but if the servers were to be whittled down to Grey Host and Vengeance, I wouldn't be mad.

Life at @ 240ms in ping is king game.

Vengeance:
My skills worked.

Live in BG:
My skills don't work.

- Remove all auto target from pets. Only go when commanded. Limit range of pet to 12m.

- Remove the free range from battlespirit.

- Remove shield stacking from pvp. Limit max total shield to 50% hp.

- Remove major and minor. Limit buffs and debuffs to 5 each. Next one just overwrites previous.

- Class passives need a complete overhaul.

- Self healing is too strong.

- Block passives are too strong.

- Armor passives need to be reworked.

- Resource scaling shouldn't effect damage. Only weapon. With spell only affecting healing.

- High ping players need increase time in their dodge iframe.

- Siege needs to do more damage to players.

- More dots and delay need to be changed to channels.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

• Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?
  
  - Yes
  
• Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?
  
  - Yes
  
• What you think of the simplified abilities?
  
  They give some class identity, but some classes are missing the old one. I wouldn't want that as end solution.
  
• Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc? If you encounter character corruption, please provide the following feedback when using /bug in-game.
  
  - No
  
• What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?
  
  - Could be a separate feature or event campaign. Nevertheless I would like to see more tests and frequency so we can finally switch from constant server overloading from all the heals overtime and nerfing godlike ball groups.
  
• Do you have any general feedback?
  
  - I can see Vengeance being a separate PvX mode. Like Blackreach mines control or fights for Dwemer tech in the future where the cavern system is PvX and affects overland trading caravan system of some sorts. I would like to see Vengeance implemented for some kind of large scale war event mode in old zones that can revive the game.
  

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?

Absolutely. I haven't seen so many people on screen since beta.

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?

Performance was stellar. I'm one of the (few?) people who had no major issues in Cyrodiil before, but considering how many people were in the same campaign, I expected at least some negative performance impact. Quite the opposite, performance was actually much better even with many more players around.
Combat was responsive and kinda fun, but healing was challenging most of the time because of "smart" targeting.

What [do] you think of the simplified abilities?

I want to note that this is basically where the game started - each ability doing one or two things - and over the years we've moved to a point where an ability seems weak if it doesn't deal a ton of damage, heals, grants 3 buffs and also shines your shoes. For a PvP environment, I think the original design of simple, clear and impactful abilities is much better, for performance as well as engaging counter-play.

Ideally, we should still have access to all our abilities and morphs, no matter the class. Creating a variety of builds is simply part of the fun of an RPG, and shouldn't be completely sacrificed to create an even playing field. But if each ability only did 1-2 things like they used to? I'd be fine with that.
Happy, even.

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc?

Goodness, no. That sounds scary!

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?

Not so initial anymore, but I loved it. I'm looking forward to new testing campaigns.

Do you have any general feedback?

I think the main negative feedback I have is probably the lack of catapult siege weapons. Siege weapons in general were skewed towards the attacker, which made defending keeps unusually difficult. When you only have oils to stem the zerg, there isn't much to be done.
As for further tests - I understand people don't want to be "pushed" into PvP, but a more unique reward for participating in theses tests or even just an AP boost like during Whitestrake's Mayhem would be very much welcome.

• Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?
  Yes
• Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise
  absolutely
• Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc?
  I did not experience any of it
• What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?
  It was good fun. Some things could have been tuned better, e.g. siege was hitting very low on keeps (and players with the increased base health pool). But overall a refreshing experience.
• Do you have any general feedback?
  A tuned version - name it 2.0 - of this Vengeance ruleset would be a great permanent campaign IMO. I suggest having one proc/CP campaign and one Vengeance version 2.0 (it works equally well for under 50 players so alleviates any need for more than one)

So once again here, in this thread. Vengeance was better and much more fun than normal cyro. Why ? Well from the bigger part because it made new players to be equal to endgame players in everything, except game experience, which led to WHOLE community to enjoy pvp.
But even many veteran players likes this kind of cyro more, than normal one, and that is caused by:

1. NO unbalanced crazy sets.
2. NO crazy crosshealing/shielding
3. NO ballgroups
And also its sad to say it, by this pvp feels more balanced than normal one.

Equality of players is much closer there, than its in normal cyro, which is just poisoned with few ballgroups just playing their own game. Crosshealing is almost absent there OR its too weak to even be recognized, its definitely not gamebreaking as it is in normal cyro where are all those heals even shielded by DMG shields, which is destroying any fun of pvp.

I would vote to keep this campaign to let ppl actually have fun playing PVP. I would just change a few things. I would suggest to do it like this:

1. Weapon, armor and race passives to be active
2. Switch all UNLIMITED things for regular inventory stuff, so ppl would still have to craft/buy potions etc.
3. Food buffs to be active
4. Changing current max stats to 2/3
5. Changing builds to provide their armor, enchants and trait bonuses, but keeping all SET bonuses BLOCKED
6. Changing cyro test spells to regular class ones but WITHOUT class passives
7. Alliance war skill lines to be active
8. Keeping champion points BLOCKED for obvious reasons
9. EDIT: Some classes are dependent on some weapon skills, so if it wont cause lags, it would be better to add those as well, for such classes. Those skills wont change pure fair gameplay i would like to achieve by making such campaign.
10. Mundus stone bonuses to be active

*To make it more clear, just make this campaign without set bonuses, class passives and world and guild skill lines. Also BLOCK CP points. The rest could stay the same as in normal cyro, with one thing to consider, reducing healing/shielding by another 15%, making it 70% instead of 55%.

Also ome more thing to consider could be changing cyro joining not by actual alliance, but by which alliance would need more players, cos as some ppl stated, sometimes one alliance have 50+ more players making it too hard to play against such a mass in less numbers.

This would make cyro much more fun, and much more balanced and tactical. Its just my suggestion, i can surely be changed for the better, someone can sure have a good idea how it could be possible to make it even better, while also such campaign would need to be tested, which im sure MANY community members would like to help with testing this, and making such campaign to live.

Doing this, i also suggest to merge gray host and blackreach campaigns into ONE keeping it alliance locked. And also another thing to consider could be merging under lvl 50 campaign with vengeance, cos its in 95% time completely dead campaign, and even if not, then usually only veteran players are fighting there anyway. With just newly created characters with golded builds, which is nonsense to keep such campaign, ment for new players, no one would play it.
This is actually also a problem in under 50 BGs, where i would also suggest to BLOCK set bonuses to prevent this, and let it be for actually new players to train there.

Till now, whole PVP was 100% new player unfriendly, while it was also incredibly boring and just bad even for veteran players. This campaign could actually save this games PVP, making it accesible and FUN for the WHOLE community.

Also as i mentioned in my thread, average player age is another thing why to make such campaign, cos average age is around 30yo, at least by what i was told from other community members, most ppl were between 25-35, so were almost a MMORPG dinosaurs . Mentioning this cos of possible time spent to actually play the game, which is average probably like 12 hours/week if even for this age category, making it VERRY hard to exp CP/skill lines and/or to drop usable sets. For such campaign, ppl would just have to get one golded build to play both PVE and PVP thanks to set bonus BLOCK, with only exception for weapons, cos of traits/enchants. So such a move could lure MANY more ppl into the game, cos every MMORPG endgame, is simply PVP, which is unacessible for new players, and unfun for veterans in current state.

With this move, even ppl who try this game during free trials could actually try pvp, which would still be verry hard for them but PLAYABLE what we cant say about old cyro/pvp weve had till now. It would convince much more ppl to actually buy a game for both PVE/PVP contents (for now most ppl play just for PVE) and make games community to grow.

Many ppl rather do some party in Auridon, than to ruin their fun and play PVP in endgame (exactly me haha). So MAYBE this could also change and party enjoyers could do some funny assembly directly in cyro, instead of Auridon . Bringing some new breath into the game. Would actually be funny to make some kind of festival there, im gonna be a drummer, would beat the dust out of my fungal drum .

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?

All the time, both keep/outpost and open field encounters. It was awesome.

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?

I was amazed at how smoothly combat was even in the most intense fighting. Only encountered one instance where everything froze then disconnected ( I believe it was Tuesday or Wednesday afternoon) and it wasn't even that large a battle, maybe 15-20 on each side. Sunday afternoon there were occurences of visual cues from oils or enemy spells not showing up, and one intance of rubberbanding (I galloped at full speed through a group trying to force their way into a contested wall breech, got clear into the outpost onto the front flag, then banded back outside and died in the middle of the enemy. Hilarious.)

The absence of the stuck-in-combat bug was really noticeable. And welcome.

What you think of the simplified abilities?

I initally missed the options from the weapon skill lines. but it was easy to adapt.

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc?

No.

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?

Honestly, it was the most fun I've had in Cyrodil in years. Between the hyperkinetic jackrabbits popping out of stealth to one shot me, unkillable tanks shrugging off damage from a dozen players, and ball groups running over everyone in the field, my playtime Cyrodil had dropped off to almost nothing. Vengeance made PVP fun again, and I thoughly enjoyed playing it.

Do you have any general feedback?

The campaign was fun, and I play computer games for fun. I know there are players whose idea of fun involves theorycrafting PVP builds that turn their character into OP killing machines like the protagonist of an anime, but not all players want to put that much time and energy into a recreational pastime. To use an analogy, I enjoy wilderness hiking, but that doesn't mean I want to put in the time and training to be able to free climb El Captain. Some do, and that's okay. But if the only hiking options available are El Captain, I'll find something else to do.

Vengeance showed me what PVP can be like, and I enjoyed it. From the complaints I heard in chat, some players hated it. How ZOS takes what was learned and applies it to balance those two player viewpoints will be whatever fits their vision of what ESO PVP should be. In the final analysis, this is a ZOS business decision.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the new Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign). Please try out the new campaign and let us know what you think! Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?
• Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?
• What you think of the simplified abilities?
• Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc? If you encounter character corruption, please provide the following feedback when using /bug in-game.
  • account name
  • character name
  • What happened to trigger the corruption (leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, etc)?
  • Time of day this occurred
  • screenshots and video
• What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?
• Do you have any general feedback?

1) Yes, yes, yes and it was amazing
2) Yes, before Vengence, especialy with ball groups, it made lag me so much. Now with Vengence I only saw a FPS decrese at 30ish, instead of usual 60
3) I think they are great, but could use some more rebalance, but mostly not having sets was amazing, expect the fact that solo vs X was not possible anymore, the only downside for me.
4) no

As a dedicated player of ESO from the first beta across all aspects of the game and keeping up with the game over 10 years I just wanted to offer my own two cents with the test wrapping up and provide answers to @ZOS_Kevin so to start I'll answer your questions first

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles? Absolutely and pretty effortlessly too. It honestly felt like year 2 Cyrodiil with some of the largest scale battles I had ever experienced in any game ever.

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?Again absolutely felt better and very responsive.

What you think of the simplified abilities? Initially the simplified abilities made combat feel longer, but over time playing it became bland (needing a mix of abilities from different sources of skills and options) and combat with other players also became very easy to expect what they were going to do.

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc? I experienced zero issues with bugs or disconnects.

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)? It was a good test bed, but that is it and really was its intended purpose, to test. I think we can comfortably say skills and/or sets are what is contributing to performance problems.

Do you have any general feedback? Absolutely see below.

Again as I stated I played ESO from the first beta and have been a huge advocate for the game and also very critical to the devs when I felt like they were taking the game in the wrong direction to the point of even quitting the game for a couple of years, but I still continued to keep up with where the game was going and would time to time pop in during chapter updates just to see how devs were correcting problems. I have played all aspects of ESO PvE, PvP, small scale, large scale, grouping, solo, trials etc etc etc over 10 years and again I have contributed a lot of feedback on all of these systems.

I can honestly say it was very immediately noticed this campaign made drastic differences to the better for performance of the game in cyrodiil. I immediately was taken back to how cyrodiil use to be done and more specifically how it use to be before an incremental patch was pushed back in I believe Oct 2015 which took every single player down to 2fps. It was an absolute nightmare to say the least but prior to that cyrodiil was amazing with HUGE battles, smooth performance etc etc etc. If I recall correctly Paul Sage stated they made changes to how abilities registered with other players or something to that effect. Either way my point is this test immediately took me back to the moment before things got messed up years ago.

With that being said I am pretty certain we can all agree now that the amount of players in cyrodiil is not a problem in fact ZOS has shown they can truly push some impressive numbers in cyrodiil with TONS of players and things run just fine. Our real problem here is the abilities / set items themselves in how they affect combat, how things are registered of what is going on and the load that is putting on the server. Of course this is much easier said and much easier to "identify" the problem than it is to "fix" the problem. I will say the "fix" is NOT to make Cyrodiil how its been over the past week. Yes its been fun, the huge battles have been amazing and it makes cyrodiil feel like an actual war with your faction being put right in front of you instead of it feeling like your in Monty Python running over the fields of Cyrodiil with your handful of companions in search of the holy grail. So the real "fix" here is to continue to give players all the flexibility of all their skills they have had over 10 years and more to come, but also give us the scale we seen over the past week with the performance we've had during the past week. If you manage that then yea Cyrodiil is going to thrive and grow, but again that is much much easier said than done. I wish the dev team nothing but the best of luck in achieving this and I look forward to what is coming in the future for the game

Thank you,
Defatank

Overall, even though I went in pessimistic and skeptical, I did not hate it. It made me realize that I do not miss sets at all, but I do really miss my skill lines and skill bars. Smaller fights were fun, but large scale was a boring numbers count without powerful sieges like Meatbags to even the odds when it's smaller zerg vs bigger zerg.

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?

Yes. Multiple times in and around keeps and in the open field.


Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?

Yes. Combat was much more responsive and latency issues were non-existent


What you think of the simplified abilities?

I tried sorc, warden, and arc. I didn't like playing without passives and with completely pared down abilities. It felt like an extremely narrow set of what any character was able to do. There didn't feel like difference between a player who was 3000 CP and a level 10 player of the same class who just downloaded the game. The game needs more than 15 skills per player. Obviously the game requires more balance too but that wasn't the focus of the test.

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc? If you encounter character corruption, please provide the following feedback when using /bug in-game.

No

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?

The game play was smooth but because of the lack of interesting skills/gear, it was not engaging.

Do you have any general feedback?

It would be helpful for the developers to share with the community the relative results/impressions the developers had comparing this test with others that have been performed. It may be interesting to do a similar test while keeping gear disabled, introducing some of the other skill lines, and re-introducing things like meatbags.

This campaign sorely missed things like anti-personnel siege which was a helpful tool for smaller groups against larger groups.