Dragon Leap is breaking the rules by ignoring CC immunity.

dark_hunterxmg · February 25

Being held in place while having CC immunity needs to stop. DK has 4 methods of crowd control by having this skill act that way. Fight a group of DKs and you'll never move again.

buzzclops · February 26

It does not ? On very rare occasion when two ccs happen at the same time it does feel like the knock you in the air from leap is a double cc. But most of the time its working fine. Do you have a clip of what you’re saying I’m not sure I understand. 7 seconds immunity works with all of the dks cc skill from what I can tell. 7 seconds in sweaty PvP does feel like 3 secs sometimes tho haha

React · February 26

Think OP is referring to the fact that the developers have placed a .25s 75% unavoidable snare on all morphs of leap, where the target is snared regardless of their snare immunity. This breaks the rules of snare immunity.

They did this because they struggled with the targeting of the ability with moving targets - but the result is an extremely buggy snare that often locks your character out of functionality for moments at a time when you're the target of a leap, and does things like cancelling your roll mid dodge roll despite being CC & snare immune.

Its a frustrating mechanic that really should go.

dark_hunterxmg · February 26

React wrote: »

Think OP is referring to the fact that the developers have placed a .25s 75% unavoidable snare on all morphs of leap, where the target is snared regardless of their snare immunity. This breaks the rules of snare immunity.

They did this because they struggled with the targeting of the ability with moving targets - but the result is an extremely buggy snare that often locks your character out of functionality for moments at a time when you're the target of a leap, and does things like cancelling your roll mid dodge roll despite being CC & snare immune.

Its a frustrating mechanic that really should go.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. One DK can cc another player 3 times in rapid succession. Stun, immobilize, immobilize again.

Genfe · February 26

This actually was on all gap closers. This phenomenon was called spambush or lotus spam. “Multiple Nighblades all spamming ambush to pseudo snare permanently.

dark_hunterxmg · February 26

Genfe wrote: »

This actually was on all gap closers. This phenomenon was called spambush or lotus spam. “Multiple Nighblades all spamming ambush to pseudo snare permanently.

That sounds awful. No skill should workthis way. A player shouldn't get held in place while being immune or even held in place for a guaranteed hit from a gap closer.

Sluggy · February 26

Yeah like react said, it was added as a way to actually make the skill function at all. People were just casually walking away from it because it targets the loction in space they were at when you cast the skill... somestimes. When lag hits all kinds of weird crap happens with the skill. I've had delays of so long that I forgot I tried castig it and suddenly I fling myself fifty feet backward into a group of enemies that I was trying to run away from.

I think the easiest way to fix it would be to just remove the target requirement. Just let us pick a location on the ground and leap there. No snare, no single-target, just let us decide if we want to try to lead a moving goal. The next best thing would be to make it work like other gap-closers where you do weird crap like float up stairs and around corners. Then you still wouldn't need the snare and the leap would actually go to the target.

xylena_lazarow · February 27

Sluggy wrote: »

I think the easiest way to fix it would be to just remove the target requirement. Just let us pick a location on the ground and leap there. No snare, no single-target, just let us decide if we want to try to lead a moving goal. The next best thing would be to make it work like other gap-closers where you do weird crap like float up stairs and around corners. Then you still wouldn't need the snare and the leap would actually go to the target.

It drives me nuts that there are so many similarly functioning skills that all have wildly different mechanics. How many different versions of "gap closer" or "stun" does this game need? Isn't that bad for the computer code? I do though think that your idea to make Leap function more like Streak would be really cool.

Sluggy · February 27

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

show previous quotes

Sluggy wrote: »

I think the easiest way to fix it would be to just remove the target requirement. Just let us pick a location on the ground and leap there. No snare, no single-target, just let us decide if we want to try to lead a moving goal. The next best thing would be to make it work like other gap-closers where you do weird crap like float up stairs and around corners. Then you still wouldn't need the snare and the leap would actually go to the target.

It drives me nuts that there are so many similarly functioning skills that all have wildly different mechanics. How many different versions of "gap closer" or "stun" does this game need? Isn't that bad for the computer code? I do though think that your idea to make Leap function more like Streak would be really cool.

For me, the most infuriating part is when things get heavy on the server and I'm just mashing the button waiting for it to go off. There can be a dozen valid targets standing right in front of me and all I see is "Invalid Location" at the top of the screen. It can literally take several seconds to activate even when it finds a valid target and even happen out of order of the actions you've pressed and it just throws your whole state of mind out of whack.

I think being able to just pick a location on the ground would make it much smoother and more reactive since you don't need the server to validate the destination through such rigorous checks as when you are aiming for a moving target.

Zama666 · February 27

hmmm I thought I just had poor timing....ALL THE TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YandereGirlfriend · February 28

Sluggy wrote: »

Yeah like react said, it was added as a way to actually make the skill function at all. People were just casually walking away from it because it targets the loction in space they were at when you cast the skill... somestimes. When lag hits all kinds of weird crap happens with the skill. I've had delays of so long that I forgot I tried castig it and suddenly I fling myself fifty feet backward into a group of enemies that I was trying to run away from.

I think the easiest way to fix it would be to just remove the target requirement. Just let us pick a location on the ground and leap there. No snare, no single-target, just let us decide if we want to try to lead a moving goal. The next best thing would be to make it work like other gap-closers where you do weird crap like float up stairs and around corners. Then you still wouldn't need the snare and the leap would actually go to the target.

This is a really great idea! Area-targeted Leap would also be much more fun to use.

BixenteN7Akantor · February 28

React wrote: »

Think OP is referring to the fact that the developers have placed a .25s 75% unavoidable snare on all morphs of leap, where the target is snared regardless of their snare immunity. This breaks the rules of snare immunity.

They did this because they struggled with the targeting of the ability with moving targets - but the result is an extremely buggy snare that often locks your character out of functionality for moments at a time when you're the target of a leap, and does things like cancelling your roll mid dodge roll despite being CC & snare immune.

Its a frustrating mechanic that really should go.

Interesting.
I added this to Dragon Leap's page on UESP

yourhpgod · March 3

You have CC immunity from one player not all of them . I know this sounds silly but its the mechanics.

dark_hunterxmg · March 29

No target needed would be interesting. Whatever change is made has got to stop the 3x CC that DK can currently do. Players are taking damage that they would otherwise be able to dodged because of this broken machanic.

moo_2021 · March 29

It's an ultimate. If you can't even hit with an ultimate, how are you supposed to kill anyone?

The skill already hits like wet noodles and it's more of a defensive ability.

dark_hunterxmg · March 29

moo_2021 wrote: »

It's an ultimate. If you can't even hit with an ultimate, how are you supposed to kill anyone?

The skill already hits like wet noodles and it's more of a defensive ability.

You mean like Incap, berserker strike, dawnbreaker etc.? Unless we should make those hold another player in place regardless of CC immunity for a guaranteed hit as well?

moo_2021 · March 29

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

You mean like Incap, berserker strike, dawnbreaker etc.? Unless we should make those hold another player in place regardless of CC immunity for a guaranteed hit as well?

nobody use incap except from stealth

nobpdy use berserker

Dawnbreaker is aoe and i cant tell what purpose it serves other than procing Balorgh and the 3% damage done. It's the kind you pick when there is nothing good.

leap is 1 of the only 2 ranged counters dk has, and it's an ultimate. And since dk cant build like nb or sorc, it serves more like a oh-**** button that give the user some time to recover and reset.

We have enough useless abilities.

dark_hunterxmg · March 30

moo_2021 wrote: »

show previous quotes

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

You mean like Incap, berserker strike, dawnbreaker etc.? Unless we should make those hold another player in place regardless of CC immunity for a guaranteed hit as well?

nobody use incap except from stealth

nobpdy use berserker

Dawnbreaker is aoe and i cant tell what purpose it serves other than procing Balorgh and the 3% damage done. It's the kind you pick when there is nothing good.

leap is 1 of the only 2 ranged counters dk has, and it's an ultimate. And since dk cant build like nb or sorc, it serves more like a oh-**** button that give the user some time to recover and reset.

We have enough useless abilities.

Leap will still serve as a "oh no" ability without breaking CC immunity rules. I'm not sure that I understand the argument for DK having the ability to CC a player 3 times in a row.

To your points about the ultimates that I mentioned, I see every one of those skills used on a regular bases. Incap is not just from stealth, berserker strike is absolutely used frequently, and dawnbreaker is not just because there's nothing else good.

Sluggy · March 30

moo_2021 wrote: »

leap is 1 of the only 2 ranged counters dk has, and it's an ultimate. And since dk cant build like nb or sorc, it serves more like a oh-**** button that give the user some time to recover and reset.

We have enough useless abilities.

Depending on the patch people seem to swing like pendulums from "It's the most overpowered skill in the game" to completely forgetting that it exists.

It brings a lot of utility to the class and I find myself using it for a vast variety of functions. It makes a decent execute on an already stunned target. It can be used as a gap closer as well as a situational escape tool. It can be used to setup a burst and stun that combos very well with a fully charged molten whip (my most preferred use). As you mentioned, it makes a good "oh shhhhhh**" button because it can potentially stun, do a decent burst of damage, allow you to move a good distance quickly and proc your Battle Roar for an infusion of resources and health. I also like to use it as a tool to break up charging ballgroups (the less skilled ones that aren't making good use of coordinated CC immunity at such times).

I think it's one of the most iconic skills in the game for sure and I absolutely wouldn't advocate for that to change. As for balance, I think it's actually very well balanced since there are defenses against it but when action isn't taken it can be quite devastating. I'd be fine with it staying exactly as it is right now but if people really want to see the snare go then the only option I can think of that might allow it to maintain the same overall use and power is ground targeting. Mind you that there is a saying in game development: The mind is a terrible emulator. Which basically means that without actually playtesting, you can never really be sure if something will work well and feel right. So even if this sounds like a good suggestion, and even as the person suggesting it, I'd still advocate for a healthy dose of skepticism on that.

dark_hunterxmg · March 30

I'm not advocating for the skill to change as far as the knock back on targets that aren't immune, or the damage. It simply should not ignore CC immunity. No player should get held in place 3 times in a row.

Joy_Division · April 1

I never understood why ZOS's gap closers had a hard time tracking moving targets. Pretty sure I was playing games on my Atari in which the programmers figured out how to make two different blocks of pixels collide.

They put the auto snare on any target of a gap-closer years ago and everyone hated it.

Genfe · April 1

Joy_Division wrote: »

I never understood why ZOS's gap closers had a hard time tracking moving targets. Pretty sure I was playing games on my Atari in which the programmers figured out how to make two different blocks of pixels collide.

They put the auto snare on any target of a gap-closer years ago and everyone hated it.

They actually did this after after closers were able to go up on keep walls. When they removed that function, it broke gap closers prevented any verticality. Then they had to add the snare back for “reasons”.

Then they removed them, but left it on Dragon Leap