Vengeance should replace the Under 50 and No CP campaigns for accessibility

Erickson9610 · March 2025

The barrier to entry in regular Cyrodiil is high. The purpose of Under 50 and No CP is to let newer players (who don't have as many levels or Champion Points as others) begin to experience PvP.

The Vengeance test seems like the perfect starting point for players who want to begin learning ESO's PvP. A new player would get the feel for attacking/defending keeps, without needing to worry too much about what sets they wear or what abilities they have unlocked. When they feel ready to make their own build for Cyrodiil, they can start playing on a different campaign with everything enabled.

Yes, I know No Proc stuck around for a while and then went away. I think that Vengeance is so fundamentally different than No Proc that it would last longer. Plus, a lot of people have been trying ESO PvP for the first time during Vengeance — they may leave again when it goes back to normal without an option to play Vengeance.

I'd like an option to pick either Vengeance or normal Cyrodiil, at least. There are pros and cons to both.

YandereGirlfriend · March 2025

This is a fundamentally good idea.

There is certainly an audience for the Vengeance style but that audience is, by and large, NOT the existing base of PvP players.

So providing a streamlined gateway into the wider world of PvP definitely makes sense. And if those players wanted to remain in Vengeance afterward, that is well and good as well.

Xarc · March 2025

cant agree more

SilverBride · March 2025

I like this idea. I've enjoyed the time I spent in Vengeance the past couple of days and would be more likely to get into Cyrodiil if there was a Vengeance type campaign to learn and get more comfortable in.

valenwood_vegan · March 2025

Totally agree with replacing the under 50 campaign (and opening it to everyone), it took me years to get into regular cyro pvp at all and I think that process would've been accelerated greatly with something like vengeance as an introduction. And though I'd get bored of vengeance if it was the only cyro campaign, I think I'd still find myself playing it occasionally if it was an option, as sometimes I'm just in the mood for a quick casual experience / it might be a fun thing to do with guildies in a more casual pve guild.

blktauna · March 2025

I love this vengence ruleset and with a bit of tweaking I think it would be a great alt campaign.

DreamyLu · March 2025

For me, the version "no CP" is a bless. It provides me with a free explorable version of Cyrodiil, allowing me to wander in peace, enjoy the landscape, gather resources, fish... So yes, the version tested now is an easier PvP, but it remains PvP all the same. And if only those two versions remain available, then I have nothing left allowing me to go there.

Now, this is of course an egoistic point of view...

Aside of that very personal approach, my opinion is that it would make sense to have only 2 worlds. Even if I enjoy wandering there, that's a mystery to me why ZOS keep a - quite empty - world aside of 2 other versions of it.

Probably a first step could be to merge "below 50" and "no CP". But even then, I'm not sure that it would increase the population much. Another alternative could be to have only two versions of Cyrodiil: PvP and PvE (difference based on activity instead of level).

I'm not sure about the idea suggested in this thread, because it could result in a world that would be sort of a "passage" only, with a quite high turnover as people would rapidly either leave if they don't like it, or join real PvP world if they like it, but not stay long there.

All in all, it will be interesting to see the future.

Major_Mangle · March 2025

Sub 50 maybe
Ravenwatch no

Erickson9610 · March 2025

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Sub 50 maybe
Ravenwatch no

I'd be fine with Vengeance only replacing Under 50 so long as characters of any level can join it. I don't want to be locked out of Vengeance because my character leveled up to 50, you know?

Replacing Under 50 with Vengeance (and removing the level requirement as levels are meaningless in Vengeance anyway) would be a better alternative than replacing Under 50 and No CP with Under 50 Vengeance and Vengeance, which would be needlessly redundant.

Jestir · March 2025

I gave this feedback on the actual feedback thread in the PvP forums, I would recommend if you feel the same to put it there as well

wose · March 2025

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Sub 50 maybe
Ravenwatch no

As an actual Ravenwatch player, I vote yes. In fact I already posted a proposal like this yesterday https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8286391/#Comment_8286391

If you want a no-cp proc-enabled campaign, I can sympathize with that. It is less broken than the main campaigns.
If you have a different reason to object... I'm curious to learn which.

Major_Mangle · March 2025

wose wrote: »

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Sub 50 maybe
Ravenwatch no

As an actual Ravenwatch player, I vote yes. In fact I already posted a proposal like this yesterday https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8286391/#Comment_8286391

If you want a no-cp proc-enabled campaign, I can sympathize with that. It is less broken than the main campaigns.
If you have a different reason to object... I'm curious to learn which.

No proc is and was an awful addition to the game (won´t go into super details to why since that would be a post on its own) and is one of the reason Ravenwatch died in the long run. While Ravenwatch (PCEU) is kind of a ghost town I do enjoy the few fights I can get there occasionally when playing 2-3 man with some friends. While battlegrounds exists it´s not always a viable option when you want to play with a friend or two (due to queue times being too long in the group queue). While I´m mostly forced to play in CP enabled campaigns to get PvP, I find NO-CP with all sets allowed to be the most balanced PvP environment out there. The imbalance CP brings is much greater to what certain sets can do (and those sets that are the exception to this are mostly buff-/stat boosting sets, not damage or healing procs), hence why I prefer NOCP when I can.

Sub 50 is and will always be waste of server space in my opinion. It had its uses when the game was new, but now days it´s purely used for emp selling due to the fact that no one goes there. So if you wanna make sub 50 what the current Vengeance is right now be my guest, but I´d rather not remove Ravenwatch if possible. I do find Vengeance to be some of the most dull and boring PvP I´ve ever tried and would rather see anything even remotely close to it, never see the light of day in ESO´s future.

MorallyBipolar · March 2025

Erickson9610 wrote: »

The barrier to entry in regular Cyrodiil is high. The purpose of Under 50 and No CP is to let newer players (who don't have as many levels or Champion Points as others) begin to experience PvP.

The Vengeance test seems like the perfect starting point for players who want to begin learning ESO's PvP. A new player would get the feel for attacking/defending keeps, without needing to worry too much about what sets they wear or what abilities they have unlocked. When they feel ready to make their own build for Cyrodiil, they can start playing on a different campaign with everything enabled.

Yes, I know No Proc stuck around for a while and then went away. I think that Vengeance is so fundamentally different than No Proc that it would last longer. Plus, a lot of people have been trying ESO PvP for the first time during Vengeance — they may leave again when it goes back to normal without an option to play Vengeance.

I'd like an option to pick either Vengeance or normal Cyrodiil, at least. There are pros and cons to both.

Couldn't disagree more. The vengeance system is so different from the original system that it's the opposite of preparation for the real deal. Players need to learn to build for PvP, so your suggestion would not help to prepare players for what, hopefully, will remain the main PvP campaign still using the original game mode.

Iriidius · March 2025

MorallyBipolar wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

The barrier to entry in regular Cyrodiil is high. The purpose of Under 50 and No CP is to let newer players (who don't have as many levels or Champion Points as others) begin to experience PvP.

The Vengeance test seems like the perfect starting point for players who want to begin learning ESO's PvP. A new player would get the feel for attacking/defending keeps, without needing to worry too much about what sets they wear or what abilities they have unlocked. When they feel ready to make their own build for Cyrodiil, they can start playing on a different campaign with everything enabled.

Yes, I know No Proc stuck around for a while and then went away. I think that Vengeance is so fundamentally different than No Proc that it would last longer. Plus, a lot of people have been trying ESO PvP for the first time during Vengeance — they may leave again when it goes back to normal without an option to play Vengeance.

I'd like an option to pick either Vengeance or normal Cyrodiil, at least. There are pros and cons to both.

Couldn't disagree more. The vengeance system is so different from the original system that it's the opposite of preparation for the real deal. Players need to learn to build for PvP, so your suggestion would not help to prepare players for what, hopefully, will remain the main PvP campaign still using the original game mode.

Building for PvP is much more difficult for players below lvl 50 cp160 because they outgrew their gear regulary as the gear will scale up only as much as the player and when it has lower lvl than the player the gear will not scale to cp160 and therefore has to be replaced regulary. That is not a problem for rerollers having golden gear every 10 level or more which they can craft or transmute but very much for players who are really new. Not every player has to learn to build for build PvP, some players could also stay in vengeance or do not pvp enaugh to make a build for it. But seeing if you can compete if you have equal stats will encourage players that can to make competitive builds and spare players who cant from making meta builds only to get disappointed and quit.

Rohamad_Ali · March 2025

Sounds good.

LadyGP · March 2025

I actually really like this idea—with just one small tweak. This suggestion assumes the test was successful and that ZoS will now shift focus toward developing PvP-specific versions of most skills and reworking how some item sets function. With that in mind…

It might be beneficial for ZoS, once they’re ready and have made some progress, to remove all campaigns except Greyhost and then reintroduce Vengeance. From there, they could push incremental updates to Vengeance, gradually adding in more skills and sets while gathering live data in real time. This approach would allow them to monitor ongoing trends without needing to fully shut down campaigns or wait for reset windows to conduct meaningful testing.

Testing in production is almost never ideal… but in this case, maybe it’s worth leaning into it.

Keep Greyhost open for the hardcore players who dropped out of Vengeance due to the stripped-down combat system (I know quite a few who left after just a day), while keeping Vengeance running as the more casual-friendly fallback for the majority who are enjoying the test.

Once the reworks to skills and proc sets are complete, Vengeance could then be transitioned into the original concept proposed by the OP. It’d make PvP far more accessible for new and returning players.

@ZOS_Kevin

Tranquilizer · March 2025

LadyGP wrote: »

I actually really like this idea—with just one small tweak. This suggestion assumes the test was successful and that ZoS will now shift focus toward developing PvP-specific versions of most skills and reworking how some item sets function. With that in mind…

It might be beneficial for ZoS, once they’re ready and have made some progress, to remove all campaigns except Greyhost and then reintroduce Vengeance. From there, they could push incremental updates to Vengeance, gradually adding in more skills and sets while gathering live data in real time. This approach would allow them to monitor ongoing trends without needing to fully shut down campaigns or wait for reset windows to conduct meaningful testing.

Testing in production is almost never ideal… but in this case, maybe it’s worth leaning into it.

Keep Greyhost open for the hardcore players who dropped out of Vengeance due to the stripped-down combat system (I know quite a few who left after just a day), while keeping Vengeance running as the more casual-friendly fallback for the majority who are enjoying the test.

Once the reworks to skills and proc sets are complete, Vengeance could then be transitioned into the original concept proposed by the OP. It’d make PvP far more accessible for new and returning players.

@ZOS_Kevin

I would totally second that, brilliant idea !
Please, @ZOS_Kevin please pass this to the developers.

Sallymen · March 2025

My experience for Vengeance so far is positive. It would be nice to have it as a separate campaign though rather it replacing an already established one. Not sure what is going to happen after the test has concluded but I hope they decide to add it back in the future.