New EU-Act: Possible ingame-store and sales changes incoming?

Kessra · March 26

EU commission and the Consumer Protection Cooperation Network passed a new enforcement measure a couple of days ago which regulates sales practices in ingame-stores and virtual currencies. One of the points within this enforcement measure talks about questionable practices in regards to time- and/or quantitiy limited sales to lure people, here in particular kids, into buying more than they actually wanted. An other point criticizes the common practice of forcing customers to buy ingame currency in an amount that does not directly match in-game items and thus require to spnd even more than the actual item costs.

This act now even requires streamers and influencers to openly declare when they get sponsored in which form ever.

As ESO basically has or is doing all of the above, we probably will see some changes to the ingame shop, loot boxes and "limited-time sales" in future, I guess. It will be interesting to see whether ZOS is updating their game client only for EU region or whether they will apply the same rules for other regions as well.

What do you think? How will this enforcement measure affect ESO and future gaming?

Tandor · March 26

Or will they simply add the EU member states to the list of countries that are excluded from certain aspects of the game? We see that regularly with competitions and raffles etc.

Kessra · March 26

Tandor wrote: »

Or will they simply add the EU member states to the list of countries that are excluded from certain aspects of the game? We see that regularly with competitions and raffles etc.

Their "special" competitions always only affected a limited set of EU countries. Austria, the country where I'm from, was never included in such a competition ever, at least not for those competitions I am aware of. As such, there has always been a rather selective number of countries who were eligible to participate anyway.

Lumsdenml · March 26

This is annoying. This is an M rated game and nothing in the cash shop gives any actual advantage in the game. Let us be adults, take responsibility for our own actions, and quit regulating things like this.

SeaGtGruff · March 26

Is this commission going to tackle these same issues (minus the buying of special currency) when it comes to real-life sales in stores and online? Does that mean they want to kill things like "Black Friday" and "Cyber Monday" sales, too, not to mention Bingo games, raffles, etc.? Or are these sorts of things only offensive and predatory when they're in a videogame?

Kessra · March 26

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Is this commission going to tackle these same issues (minus the buying of special currency) when it comes to real-life sales in stores and online? Does that mean they want to kill things like "Black Friday" and "Cyber Monday" sales, too, not to mention Bingo games, raffles, etc.? Or are these sorts of things only offensive and predatory when they're in a videogame?

AFAICT this only affects video games and their in-game sales practices. The things you've mentioned IMO fall under the usual trading and/or gamling acts.

Lumsdenml wrote: »

This is annoying. This is an M rated game and nothing in the cash shop gives any actual advantage in the game. Let us be adults, take responsibility for our own actions, and quit regulating things like this.

Unfortunately, not everyone playing computer games is "adult enough" to distinguish between "fair" trades and ones that were done based on manipulative practices. Even passing on responsibilities to parents in practice were not successful at all as kids just bought packages without the parental knowledge and game studios later on refused to refund the money as it either took to long for the parents to realize or it wasn't obvious for them that the sale was done by the kid and not by the parent. As such, such acts as I understand them are there to add a further layer of protection against malecious sales practices. I don't say that ZOS is evil here or uses every possible practice to make us spend more than we want to, there are for sure way terrible games that do that, but then again, ZOS allows to buy stuff via crowns where you can't get the exact number of crowns through real-money purchases and thus have to overspend basically.

hafjoldr · March 26

[self snip]

I just abhor internet censorship.

Tazzy · March 26

Lumsdenml wrote: »

This is annoying. This is an M rated game and nothing in the cash shop gives any actual advantage in the game. Let us be adults, take responsibility for our own actions, and quit regulating things like this.

I remember a post (I can't remember whether it was in the English or German forum) where a gambling addict made an urgent request to ZOS to block the Crown Shop for him, because he simply couldn't resist the Crown Crates. It is not so easy for such people to take responsibility for their actions. I'm not in favor of top-down regulation either, but there should be an option to have yourself banned from the crown store. Unfortunately, I don't know what happened with that request.

SkaiFaith · March 26

The EU enforcement is a good thing for gaming in general as for gamers. It's not meant to block microtransactions but to make them the good way they should have always been, and not the predatory mess they've always been.

I really hope Zos will embrace these guidelines and adapt the store accordingly. To us, would only be a benefit.

hafjoldr · March 26

Kessra wrote: »

Unfortunately, not everyone playing computer games is "adult enough" to distinguish between "fair" trades and ones that were done based on manipulative practices. Even passing on responsibilities to parents in practice were not successful at all as kids just bought packages without the parental knowledge and game studios later on refused to refund the money as it either took to long for the parents to realize or it wasn't obvious for them that the sale was done by the kid and not by the parent. As such, such acts as I understand them are there to add a further layer of protection against malecious sales practices. I don't say that ZOS is evil here or uses every possible practice to make us spend more than we want to, there are for sure way terrible games that do that, but then again, ZOS allows to buy stuff via crowns where you can't get the exact number of crowns through real-money purchases and thus have to overspend basically.

Maybe they should deal with credit card theft in a trial instead of punishing those of us who have nothing to do with it?

colossalvoids · March 26

Hopeful that it would disable their ability to sell the shining gamy coins and set prices straight in USD currency, so the decision won't be clouded by layers upon layers of of gamifying and sugarcoating ridiculously overpriced assets you don't own, for an account you don't really own either.

Kessra · March 26

In what way are you punished? Please explain

I also don't see how there is a censorship happening at all. It's just like that over the years marketing guys applied all possible means to get people to buy things based on various "bad" practices like limited time sales or virtual currencies where you need to spend more for that currency than you got value out of the item. I.e. item costs 2100 crowns but you eithr can buy 500, 1000, 2000 or 2500 crowns but not exactly 2100 crowns. You also didn't see what's the direct monetary value would be, like 16$ for those 2100 crown item or the like. The enforcement measure aims to add that information basically to make people actually aware of how much they really spend on that item. So, instead of censorship you actually get more information provided.

hafjoldr · March 26

Kessra wrote: »

In what way are you punished? Please explain

I also don't see how there is a censorship happening at all. It's just like that over the years marketing guys applied all possible means to get people to buy things based on various "bad" practices like limited time sales or virtual currencies where you need to spend more for that currency than you got value out of the item. I.e. item costs 2100 crowns but you eithr can buy 500, 1000, 2000 or 2500 crowns but not exactly 2100 crowns. You also didn't see what's the direct monetary value would be, like 16$ for those 2100 crown item or the like. The enforcement measure aims to add that information basically to make people actually aware of how much they really spend on that item. So, instead of censorship you actually get more information provided.

Truth be told, I may or may not be punished by such a law. The problem I have with it is one of trust. I simply don't have any confidence in lawmakers, and in my experience, they overdo regulations to a point where I have to ask myself: What will happen when the only thing left to prohibit is water? I'm not against having clearer prices per se, but the ones doing it have to be proper experts, not politicians. As for the censorship comment, ignore it please. It was just to have something written there instead of the rant I had written earlier and deleted.

EDIT: also, sorry if I sound somewhat negative when talking about this topic. News like these can be a little stressful for me.

EDIT2: let me rephrase the punishment part, I admit I was hasty in writing it like that. I'd rather not have restrictions put in place for something that should be taken care of as an individual case of credit card theft.

PeacefulAnarchy · March 26

Kessra wrote: »

EU commission and the Consumer Protection Cooperation Network passed a new enforcement measure a couple of days ago which regulates sales practices in ingame-stores and virtual currencies.

The rest of your post implies that is enforcement measure is due to some new law or rules, but it is not. This article describes an action taken against a specific company, Star Sable, for possibly breaching existing laws.

They did recently post updated guidelines for how companies should behave https://commission.europa.eu/document/8af13e88-6540-436c-b137-9853e7fe866a_en
but once again, these are not new guidelines or laws, just the latest outward facing explanation of existing laws.

So unless this enforcement action signals a new approach to enforcement I don't see ZOS rushing to make any changes as I'm sure their lawyers already believe they're in compliance with local laws.

hafjoldr · March 26

Good to know that, PeacefulAnarchy. I was getting scared of another law against video game companies. I suppose that makes my earlier points moot.

Kessra · March 26

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

The rest of your post implies that is enforcement measure is due to some new law or rules, but it is not. This article describes an action taken against a specific company, Star Sable, for possibly breaching existing laws.

While this enforcement measure targets Star Sable in particular, it also contains a link to the key principles EU will use as an indicator in future. You can think of this case as a precedent for other similar cases. In the end, every company operating in EU should play by the same rules and as such creating rules that apply for one gaming company but not for others would be a clear market distortion.

The European Commission will be hosting a workshop where gaming companies operating in the EU will be encouraged to present concrete steps, they will take to implement these key principles. The CPC Network will monitor progress and may take further actions if harmful practices continue.

That alone looks already like a clear agenda they are following

wolfie1.0. · March 26

SkaiFaith wrote: »

The EU enforcement is a good thing for gaming in general as for gamers. It's not meant to block microtransactions but to make them the good way they should have always been, and not the predatory mess they've always been.

I really hope Zos will embrace these guidelines and adapt the store accordingly. To us, would only be a benefit.

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on how the enforcement goes. Based on what I read these are guidelines and arnt enforced unless it's extreme violation and flagrant abuse. But we will see.

This is the type of action though that zos likely won't directly handle. This will come down from Microsoft as it impacts every monetized Xbox owned game, and ZOS is a subsidiary of. This could be a nothing burger, or it could lead to an extreme response with many games and services just not being available in the EU. It very well could happen that EU could be blocked from buying crowns as an end result and being required to make all item purchases with irl cash. Blocking gifting, among other things.

Rishikesa108 · March 26

colossalvoids wrote: »

Hopeful that it would disable their ability to sell the shining gamy coins and set prices straight in USD currency, so the decision won't be clouded by layers upon layers of of gamifying and sugarcoating ridiculously overpriced assets you don't own, for an account you don't really own either.

This. You do not own your account. You just can use it. Until you'll get banned or the game closes.
So... when you buy something, you do not really buy: you are buying just the use of that item, for some time...

Toanis · March 26

This new document doesn't really contain anything new, it's more of a reminder that existing Directives (agreed upon general goals that every EU country can implement how they see fit) have been more or less ignored by most members.

So far only Belgium and the Netherlands have local laws in place regulating ingame microtransactions. Since those markets are rather small, the game studios simply ip-banned those players from the ingame stores. Should France, Germany, and maybe this one time even the UK join in and make similar laws, game studios that would like to earn money, would have little choice than to actually comply and implement a more customer friendly monetisation.

The alternative is that the studio no longer has a business address in the EU / Schengen Area. Not happening with EA, Amazon or Microsoft which should cover the majority of western MMOs, but a small one-server game in the US, or one focusing mainly on the asian market can still have its gatcha mechanics and obfuscate money <> ingame currency relation, and nobody would stop EU citizens from playing there.

Ratzkifal · March 26

I think I should add some context here because the original post makes it all seem very vague.
What happened, as I understand it, some game got sued here in the EU because of its malicious practises. This could serve as a precedent for other games in the future, so while this doesn't have any direct consequences for ESO yet, it's good to be aware of what could happen to ESO in the future.

From what I understand, ESO's main offences in regards to this would be:

crowns are sold in bundles, which forces customers to buy more crowns than they actually need
crown store exclusive furnishings might be affected because you could argue that you first spent money on the house and to spent money again to furnish it
outfit change tokens are a secondary premium currency bought with premium currency, so it might be ruled that ZOS is required to make the outfit change cost crowns instead of tokens (and display the USD/€ equivalent alongside it)

This will not affect limited time offers, because the precedent is about something more akin to being urged to buy a skin or whatever at the end of the dungeon while the timer is running out and threatening to kick you from the instance. Or if there was a pop-up for selling you soul gems after you died.
This will also not affect crown crates, because the crown gems and seals of endeavor already put a hard limit to the cost of items like Radiant Apex mounts. This only matters where it is theoretically possible to go forever without getting the thing you wanted.

Mind you I am not a lawyer and my source for this is a summary from a guy on Youtube (Necrit). So take this with a grain of salt. I might have also missed something that could affect ESO that I simply didn't think of at the moment.

Northwold · March 26

Lumsdenml wrote: »

This is annoying. This is an M rated game and nothing in the cash shop gives any actual advantage in the game. Let us be adults, take responsibility for our own actions, and quit regulating things like this.

I'm not sure how being an adult prevents gambling addiction?

Ratzkifal · March 26

Lumsdenml wrote: »

This is annoying. This is an M rated game and nothing in the cash shop gives any actual advantage in the game. Let us be adults, take responsibility for our own actions, and quit regulating things like this.

Reminder: ESO is not an "M rated game" everywhere in the world.

Alaztor91 · March 26

ESO is already rated PEGI 18 in the EU.

DenverRalphy · March 26

IMHO, this would be bad for the players in EU.

Basically it would remove ZOS' ability to allow players to buy crowns in bulk to get more bang for their buck. Effectively cowns in EU would have a set currency value, so the player would have to pay top dollar for every item.

For example (caveat, using USD as the currency)..

A 750 Crown item.

$7.99 as that's the base value if you purchased the smallest package. $1.06 per crown.

A 5000 Crown item.

After the change: at $1.06 per, would cost $53.00.
Before the change: $40 for the 5500 bundle, and you'd have 500 crowns left over.

Northwold · March 26

DenverRalphy wrote: »

IMHO, this would be bad for the players in EU.

Basically it would remove ZOS' ability to allow players to buy crowns in bulk to get more bang for their buck. Effectively cowns in EU would have a set currency value, so the player would have to pay top dollar for every item.

For example (caveat, using USD as the currency)..

A 750 Crown item.
$7.99 as that's the base value if you purchased the smallest package. $1.06 per crown.

A 5000 Crown item.
After the change: at $1.06 per, would cost $53.00.

Before the change: $40 for the 5500 bundle, and you'd have 500 crowns left over.

Even if it did (questionable), the effect would be to make transparently clear how outrageously priced crown store items are, and presumably people would then vote with their wallets rather than paying more than the price of an entire AAA game for an electronic house which you can't fully furnish because there aren't enough slots.

DenverRalphy · March 26

Northwold wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

IMHO, this would be bad for the players in EU.

Basically it would remove ZOS' ability to allow players to buy crowns in bulk to get more bang for their buck. Effectively cowns in EU would have a set currency value, so the player would have to pay top dollar for every item.

For example (caveat, using USD as the currency)..

A 750 Crown item.
$7.99 as that's the base value if you purchased the smallest package. $1.06 per crown.

A 5000 Crown item.
After the change: at $1.06 per, would cost $53.00.

Before the change: $40 for the 5500 bundle, and you'd have 500 crowns left over.

Even if it did (questionable), the effect would be to make transparently clear how outrageously priced crown store items are, and presumably people would then vote with their wallets rather than paying more than the price of an entire AAA game for an electronic house which you can't fully furnish because there aren't enough slots.

Doubtful. The people who pay for crowns know exactly how much they're paying for them. It's not like the cost is hidden or anything.

Northwold · March 26

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

IMHO, this would be bad for the players in EU.

Basically it would remove ZOS' ability to allow players to buy crowns in bulk to get more bang for their buck. Effectively cowns in EU would have a set currency value, so the player would have to pay top dollar for every item.

For example (caveat, using USD as the currency)..

A 750 Crown item.
$7.99 as that's the base value if you purchased the smallest package. $1.06 per crown.

A 5000 Crown item.
After the change: at $1.06 per, would cost $53.00.

Before the change: $40 for the 5500 bundle, and you'd have 500 crowns left over.

Even if it did (questionable), the effect would be to make transparently clear how outrageously priced crown store items are, and presumably people would then vote with their wallets rather than paying more than the price of an entire AAA game for an electronic house which you can't fully furnish because there aren't enough slots.

Doubtful. The people who pay for crowns know exactly how much they're paying for them. It's not like the cost is hidden or anything.

Then what is your problem with this (for the avoidance of doubt, if what you said were true they would be unlikely to bother with a virtual currency)? Create a loyalty scheme if you like. It would at least be transparent.

Toanis · March 26

DenverRalphy wrote: »

IMHO, this would be bad for the players in EU.

Basically it would remove ZOS' ability to allow players to buy crowns in bulk to get more bang for their buck.

Discounts are still allowed in the EU

ZOS could still sell you "Best Deal: $53 worth of crowns for only $40", but when you buy something with those crowns they would need to also need disclose the real cost: "One piece of virtual real estate, only 12000 crowns ($127.84)".

Still we're talking about the same guys who decided that dailight saving is pointless and should be abandoned half a decade ago, and to this day can't agree upon whether always to stay at summer time or normal time

DenverRalphy · March 26

Northwold wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

IMHO, this would be bad for the players in EU.

Basically it would remove ZOS' ability to allow players to buy crowns in bulk to get more bang for their buck. Effectively cowns in EU would have a set currency value, so the player would have to pay top dollar for every item.

For example (caveat, using USD as the currency)..

A 750 Crown item.
$7.99 as that's the base value if you purchased the smallest package. $1.06 per crown.

A 5000 Crown item.
After the change: at $1.06 per, would cost $53.00.

Before the change: $40 for the 5500 bundle, and you'd have 500 crowns left over.

Even if it did (questionable), the effect would be to make transparently clear how outrageously priced crown store items are, and presumably people would then vote with their wallets rather than paying more than the price of an entire AAA game for an electronic house which you can't fully furnish because there aren't enough slots.

Doubtful. The people who pay for crowns know exactly how much they're paying for them. It's not like the cost is hidden or anything.

Then what is your problem with this (for the avoidance of doubt, if what you said were true they would be unlikely to bother with a virtual currency)? Create a loyalty scheme if you like. It would at least be transparent.

I don't have a problem with it. But then it doesn't affect me. Simply pointing out a bad side effect should it go into effect.

Toanis wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

IMHO, this would be bad for the players in EU.

Basically it would remove ZOS' ability to allow players to buy crowns in bulk to get more bang for their buck.

Discounts are still allowed in the EU , but ZOS would need to tell us the real money value.

ZOS could still sell you "Best Deal: $53 worth of crowns for only $40", but when you buy something with those crowns they would need to also need disclose the real cost: "One piece of virtual real estate, only 12000 crowns ($127,84)".

Still we're talking about the same guys who decided that dailight saving is pointless and should be abandoned half a decade ago, and to this day can't agree upon whether always to stay at summer time or normal time...

Except that you can't calculate a discounted value without set variables. The price of crowns changes depending on how many you purchase and from which source across different markets. Crowns come from ESO+ subscribtion too. Should the price of the ESO+ subscription change to account for it?

said no one ever · March 26

So if something in the crown store costs 500 crowns then zos cant sell crowns in lots of 5k. They have to sell the corwns in lots of 500 or however much an item costs in crowns.

Toanis · March 26

DenverRalphy wrote: »

[Except that you can't calculate a discounted value without set variables. The price of crowns changes depending on how many you purchase and from which source across different markets. Crowns come from ESO+ subscribtion too. Should the price of the ESO+ subscription change to account for it?

The house is worth $127.84. You can get a discount of up to 25% by buying it via the big crown packs. There would be more of an issue with 2 packs of 5500 crowns not being quite enough to buy the house...

As for ESO+, I'm quite certain that it used to be marketed as a special crown pack that included extra benefits, rather than a subscription with a crowns stipend. So that might also have been changed due to some regulations.