Why is ravenwatch empty ?

WaywardArgonian · March 17

Vulkunne wrote: »

How do you know that those of us who enjoyed no proc PvP were the ones responsible for killing the population on the server? Let's think about this. It's true the server did empty. But my sources from then and today, have indicated the reason for it emptying was because the Guilds weren't happy. The Guilds that were there... they decided to leave. Once they left, then the population left.

You see, part of the problem on GH and BR is the Guilds, the ball groups, the bomber behavior, is all very very comfortable there. That's why things aren't changing. That's why they left. They don't want a fair game they want to dominate.

First of all, the ones responsible are ultimately the developers, because they did not 'market' the no-proc campaign and provided no good in-game information on its ruleset. Even though the idea of no-proc was convoluted and half-baked from the get-go, I think it did have a chance of succeeding had it been handled better, but that is sadly not what happened.

Second, it seems like you are throwing a lot of things together. Ballgroups, bombers (who nearly always play solo, by the way) and casual guilds are all very different things. Cyrodiil has never been a place with only solo players. People run in groups big and small, guilds of varying degrees of sweatiness, you name it. The thing is that it was not one type of guild in particular that left to Gray Host - the migration took place across the board.

The reason many left is simple: they had experienced no-proc for 3 full months already and did not like it. Whether that has to do with a perceived lack of challenge on GH is your reading of it, and one that I suspect is rooted more in your prejudice against playstyles you dislike rather than actual evidence.

I played in different guilds in no-proc, including in ballgroups. The issue with playing a ballgroup in that environment is that you need content for a larger number of players. You need large zerg guilds and other ballgroups to engage with you in fights. We spent months roaming around Ravenwatch Cyrodiil trying to find fights that'd put us to the test. We even tried reducing our group size from 8 to 6 to see if we could find more action that way. But there was nothing for us to do, so we split up, and some of us moved to Gray Host. Not because we wanted to dominate, but because we we wanted to participate in actual PVP, whether we won or lost.

As I explained before, some of the big zerg guilds were the first ones to dip from Ravenwatch when no-proc rolled around. Was it because they did not want the 'challenge' posed by no-proc? No; if anything, no-proc is easier for zergs because they don't have to worry about VD procs and buff sets.

The reality is many people just didn't want to bother with no-proc after having had ample opportunity to experience it. Zergs left for GH en masse, while other players, whether solo, bomber or ballgrouper, tended to just go to the campaign with the biggest population as that translates into easy-to-find action. When such a variety of players rejects an idea, it isn't viable; how much 'challenge' it would've provided them and whether or not they would've liked it is irrelevant at that point.

Vulkunne · March 17

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

How do you know that those of us who enjoyed no proc PvP were the ones responsible for killing the population on the server? Let's think about this. It's true the server did empty. But my sources from then and today, have indicated the reason for it emptying was because the Guilds weren't happy. The Guilds that were there... they decided to leave. Once they left, then the population left.

You see, part of the problem on GH and BR is the Guilds, the ball groups, the bomber behavior, is all very very comfortable there. That's why things aren't changing. That's why they left. They don't want a fair game they want to dominate.

First of all, the ones responsible are ultimately the developers, because they did not 'market' the no-proc campaign and provided no good in-game information on its ruleset. Even though the idea of no-proc was convoluted and half-baked from the get-go, I think it did have a chance of succeeding had it been handled better, but that is sadly not what happened.

Second, it seems like you are throwing a lot of things together. Ballgroups, bombers (who nearly always play solo, by the way) and casual guilds are all very different things. Cyrodiil has never been a place with only solo players. People run in groups big and small, guilds of varying degrees of sweatiness, you name it. The thing is that it was not one type of guild in particular that left to Gray Host - the migration took place across the board.

The reason many left is simple: they had experienced no-proc for 3 full months already and did not like it. Whether that has to do with a perceived lack of challenge on GH is your reading of it, and one that I suspect is rooted more in your prejudice against playstyles you dislike rather than actual evidence.

I played in different guilds in no-proc, including in ballgroups. The issue with playing a ballgroup in that environment is that you need content for a larger number of players. You need large zerg guilds and other ballgroups to engage with you in fights. We spent months roaming around Ravenwatch Cyrodiil trying to find fights that'd put us to the test. We even tried reducing our group size from 8 to 6 to see if we could find more action that way. But there was nothing for us to do, so we split up, and some of us moved to Gray Host. Not because we wanted to dominate, but because we we wanted to participate in actual PVP, whether we won or lost.

As I explained before, some of the big zerg guilds were the first ones to dip from Ravenwatch when no-proc rolled around. Was it because they did not want the 'challenge' posed by no-proc? No; if anything, no-proc is easier for zergs because they don't have to worry about VD procs and buff sets.

The reality is many people just didn't want to bother with no-proc after having had ample opportunity to experience it. Zergs left for GH en masse, while other players, whether solo, bomber or ballgrouper, tended to just go to the campaign with the biggest population as that translates into easy-to-find action. When such a variety of players rejects an idea, it isn't viable; how much 'challenge' it would've provided them and whether or not they would've liked it is irrelevant at that point.

That version of no proc cut out a whole lot of sets.

Everyone was affected... bombers, guilds, ball groups, it affected everyone, but it affected them in a more noticeably negative way because there was no room to exploit. A ball group is not going to stick around if they can't use/abuse/exploit the sets that gives their undefeatable power over sometimes an entire servers worth of people. They're not going to stick around and have to be normal like everyone else.

There was no room for gimmicks, that's why we liked it, that's why others did not. It's as simple as that. When they left, because the guilds did actually help organize groups, or at least back then they did, everyone just fell in line to the more populated servers. It interesting how something built for the people ended up in such a mess. That's why vision is so important because at some point you can't take up two lanes.

Marronsuisse · March 17

I much prefer No CP. But Ravenwatch is always empty at the time I play. So I used to play Blackreach since I had no patience for the queue in Gray Host. But now Blackreach is also mostly empty when I play, and there's rarely a queue for Gray Host, so that's where I go.

There just aren't enough players anymore to support three campaigns. It doesn't matter what rule set people prefer, if you want PvP you have to gather in one campaign.

ioResult · March 20

darvaria wrote: »

Because players begged them NOT to make the no proc campaign a no cp campaign. Look back at forums. More players would have joined if it was not no cp.

Why do we need a no cp campaign when 90% of pvpers are at least a soft cap? Getting to 1200 cp is really fast. No reason to have a no CP campaign. It will ALWAYS be empty. Unless you have someone wanting emp and a group pv dooring the map.

Totally agree! If you want Ravenwatch to be a "No" something campaign, how about ZOS you make it a NO SCRIBING SKILLS campaign? I bet it will fill up fast and you'd not see ball groups running amok in there all the time. Only maybe the old time ball groups would even set foot in a No Scribing Skills campaign.

ioResult · March 20

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Karmen wrote: »

why is Ravenwatch so empty ?

PVP players voting with their feet. More players are playing campaigns where CP is enabled, so that is clearly what PVP players want.

Also similar to why Greyhost has more players than Blackreach. More players prefer alliance locked campaigns.

No, the player population dropped out of Ravenwatch when it went no-proc. That's when the majority of the Ravenwatch population moved to Blackreach. They didn't want to have to screw around and figure out which sets and mythics actually worked in Ravenwatch when the clowns at ZOS would never put out a definitive list.

Then when the zerglords in HellsXZerglings and Spoons Goons - who had been zerging the map in Ravenwatch - got hold of Rush of Agony, they came in and ruined Blackreach for everyone else, just completely running over everyone with their megazergs.

So many of the old Ravenwatch folks who moved to Blackreach said "If I have to deal with megazergs, ball groups and lag, I might as well go to Zerg Host where there are big zergs on every faction, not just one."

So much of the old Ravenwatch crew moved to Gray Host and would just go into to Blackreach to wait for their Gray Host queue to pop.

And then we have the last couple patches where people got tired of the lag inducing ball groups, tired of the crutch meta where every experienced PvPer is running the same sets and skills on every class in PvP, and tired of the mega zergs filled with clowns all having 40K+ health, shields for days and everyone running Rush Of Agony to bounce you around like a pinball until you end up clumped up next to some casual that blows everyone up when Vicious Death procs - and then getting bagged by some zergling who didn't even have any hand in your 'death'.

Then add in the stupid Shadowy Disguise toggle and the nerf of Merciless Resolve & Relentless Focus and most of the long time (non-RallyBlade brawler) Nightblades got even more frustrated.

So what have all the frustrated people done? They have left. They turned off their ESO Plus and play maybe once a week or they just left ESO all together.

So now Ravenwatch is empty, Blackreach is almost always empty and even Gray Host which used to be the PvDoor capital of the world isn't pop locked for much of the time when it used to be. Just look at the last few Mayhems. The 7-day campaigns were ghost towns.

I said in another thread. Wanna make Ravenwatch interesting? Turn on CP and turn OFF Scribing Skills. Make it the "No Scribing" campaign. I betcha it'll be far less laggy when pop locked than Gray Host is - because nearly none of the ball groups out there would take up the challenge of trying to ball group with no scribing skills now.

It could also potentially be a campaign on the live server where ZOS could try out things like PvP-specific versions of abilities and/or sets.

But I have zero confidence ZOS will do anything like that. They lost my trust long ago when they started listening to a vocal minority of ball groupers and super sweats on these forums on what to nerf and why. They're lost and don't know how to fix their own game. (Hint: back out all the DPS creep this game has experienced the last 5 years)

Karmen · March 21

It seems like people in Ravenwatch have an uncanny ability to ragequit, and no matter the faction, if you lose a single battle it seems like 90% of the few online players leave the campaign.

SpiritofESO · March 21

Joy_Division wrote: »

It's boring.

I respect your 10 Forum Stars, but I must assert that PvP is the most dangerously exciting part of The Elder Scrolls Online.

Thanks for your attention.