Dungeon Quests need an overhaul.

Rittings · March 18

Dungeons have long had buggy quests and skill points since day 1, and some still do have the same issues, and lots now have a new one … which I discovered the root cause of too… so how about we overhaul them to breathe new life into repeating them and aid with farming too?

Here are a current list of dungeons with buggy quests that get frozen if someone in the dungeon does something wrong… or, if the “joining encounter” interrupts you because you have a player that enjoys charging ahead and/or skipping large parts of a dungeon…

Selena’s Web, Direfrotst Keep, Fungal Grotto 2, Volenfell, Vaults of Madness, Crypt of Hearts 1 and 2, Blackheart Haven, Elden Hollow 1, Tempest Island, Blessed Crucible…

These are the ones I encounter a lot on newer characters, though I’m sure there are more.

One of the main new issues is the likes of Volenfell or Direfrost Keep, whereby the person on the quests is required to interact with an object (like a speaking stone, or a lever). If another player on the same quest interracts with it, it advances yours too… however, if a player not doing the quest interacts with it … all players doing the quest are screwed as it doesn’t advance your quest, and you can’t interact a second time with the same object.

Permanent solution to get skill points done? Remove the quest requirement. Skill points awarded first time final boss is killed. Solved.

Wanna do the quest? Make them a daily repeatable whereby you get a coffer awarded at the end containing a piece of gear … thus making players wanting to come back in and do the quests over and over, as well as giving extra potential farm reducing loot. Win… win….win.

frogthroat · March 18

Rittings wrote: »

Wanna do the quest? Make them a daily repeatable whereby you get a coffer awarded at the end containing a piece of gear … thus making players wanting to come back in and do the quests over and over, as well as giving extra potential farm reducing loot. Win… win….win.

I actually wouldn't mind a repeatable quest even if it offered nothing more than low xp.

Since the skill point is tied to the quest, I have quickly ran through all the quests to get the skill point. Only when there is a new dungeon, then I go with friends/guildies to listen to the story and once that is done, just run it quickly for the skill point with other characters.

This means I only know the stories of those dungeons that have come after I started playing this game. I have no idea what the story behind, say, Vault of Madness is. It's weird they want to make them repeatable dungeons, but do not make the quest repeatable. If you want the story, better get it on the first go or it's too late.

Credible_Joe · March 18

This is the main reason, I think, that story-mode dungeons are so often requested. Personally, I think just removing hard group checks from dungeons that have them (which I'm learning is not as many as I thought) is more than enough to make them solo-able or duo-able with an NPC companion.

If we wanted to please everyone, dungeons could have three versions.

Story mode with overland-level difficulty, overland set rewards, and the skill point. No hard group checks, whatever NPCs are involved with the quest will perform the non-combat actions, and all CC will be breakable
- If we're really committing, maybe script whatever NPC companions that are out with you to stand on the plate or pull the levers? It's extremely vexing that the requirement is technically satisfied but impossible to perform. Gives a really negative "you're doing it wrong" vibe.
Normal mode, as it is now, but with hard group checks removed
- Besides removing things like the direfrost pressure-plates, or the ICP levers, it would be a fairly small adjustment to make unbreakable CC mechanics prioritize NPC companions. This way we could still perform the mechanic without making it too easy with unilateral CC-break enabled. If our companion goes down we HAVE to rez them before the mechanic repeats, or else wipe.
Veteran mode as it is now with no changes. Group required for mechanics, player cooperation is mandatory for highest tier rewards and achievements

This way we can get the skill point without friction from other players that likely aren't doing the quest in PUGs and WITHOUT a dungeon equipment grind exploit, actually digest the story and lore without having to schedule a guild event or beg randos to help you through and wait around while you explore dialogue and the level, and preserve the challenge ceiling the dungeon was originally designed with.

Rittings · March 18

Love both those ideas. But this proves how incredibly creative the community here is, and Zeni should really take more note of what is being said….

KaGaOri · March 18

All for basegame dungeon quest overhaul. Would like:

- quests progressing by just going through dungeon (like DLC ones) - have NPCs talk while walking with the group, make players talking to them optional
- game asking if player, who haven't done the quest yet, wants quest started if fighting starts without talking to questgiver (Selene's web, anybody?)
- if there absolutly has to be something interacted with to progress quest, it needs to take priority to "joining encounter in progress" (just port player after quest updates)
- fix to issues with other players activating stuff not progressing quest and things done out of order breaking quest (like standing on plates to open gate before listening to speaking stone in Direfrost breaks the quest)

Repeatable quests could be interesting addition and get more players into less frequented dungeons. Or absolute nightmare, if rewards were too good or not good enough.

Rittings · March 18

KaGaOri wrote: »

…
Repeatable quests could be interesting addition and get more players into less frequented dungeons. Or absolute nightmare, if rewards were too good or not good enough.

Yeah I mean just like a bit of gold, so and coffer with set piece I think would be good enough… helps the farm out, and the gold and xp are nice if you already have a full sticker book.

Also would love daily undaunted pledge givers in the dungeons at the beginning…. The amount of peeps that queue for a random, then realise it’s the daily and port out to get the quest… if peeps are nice they wait, but that’s inconvenient, but also if they don’t they could we’ll kill a pledge boss while you are not present….

VDoom1 · March 19

I ran into this issue just the other day in one of the DLC dungeons, Exiled Redoubt. Everything was going fine and we had pretty much finished since the final boss was dead. I went to talk to the quest lady… and nothing. There was no way to interact with her at all. So that was fun... A bit disappointing to complete the dungeon and clear everything, only to be unable to finish the quest.

Dungeon quests have been problematic for some time, but issues occur for various reasons. Some players don’t want to do the quests, while others just want to speed-run and finish as quickly as possible.

A story mode for dungeons could be an ideal solution. That way, those who want to take their time, explore everything, and fully experience the quest can do so, while others who just want to speed through can stick to their approach.

The core issue is perhaps how dungeon runs have evolved. Back in ESO’s early days, this wasn’t much of a problem. But over the years, with more dungeons being added, people have started running the older ones as quickly as possible.

There’s also the contrast between new players and veterans. Where a veteran player might have cleared Crypt of Hearts 300 times, a new player is experiencing it for the first time. Which is another thing to consider and adds more complexity to this.

Orbital78 · March 19

I'd like to see the older vanilla quests get updated to similarly like the modern DLC's. Thankfully I can solo the older dungeons, but I guess many newer players cannot.

Rittings · March 19

Orbital78 wrote: »

I'd like to see the older vanilla quests get updated to similarly like the modern DLC's. Thankfully I can solo the older dungeons, but I guess many newer players cannot.

I can solo only if they actually can be solo’d. Some cannot… like Direfrost Keep.

Orbital78 · March 19

Rittings wrote: »

Orbital78 wrote: »

I'd like to see the older vanilla quests get updated to similarly like the modern DLC's. Thankfully I can solo the older dungeons, but I guess many newer players cannot.

I can solo only if they actually can be solo’d. Some cannot… like Direfrost Keep.

Direfrost actually can be, with tricks. I watched a streamer teach us how to solo it. It would be nice to have all dungeons doable solo on normal at least, but that isn't a fix for the root of the issue. The overly long roleplay dialogs need to be able to be bypassed or skipped when need be.

KaGaOri · March 19

Orbital78 wrote: »

Direfrost actually can be, with tricks. I watched a streamer teach us how to solo it. It would be nice to have all dungeons doable solo on normal at least, but that isn't a fix for the root of the issue. The overly long roleplay dialogs need to be able to be bypassed or skipped when need be.

Even with tricks my bet is it can't be soloed for quest (which is reason why most go into old dungeons on alts). You need two ppl standing on the plates to progress. It doesn't matter if You've got through the gate somehow. It doesn't matter if another players already opened the gate for you. The quest will get broken unless two players stand on plates and open the gate after listening to the speaking stone.

All my lvl 50 characters can solo (at least some) base game dungeons. But the ones in need of the quests (xp, undaunted credit and skill points) are the newly made lowbies, who can't solo them yet.

SeaGtGruff · March 19

Rittings wrote: »

Selena’s Web, Direfrotst Keep, Fungal Grotto 2, Volenfell, Vaults of Madness, Crypt of Hearts 1 and 2, Blackheart Haven, Elden Hollow 1, Tempest Island, Blessed Crucible…

I'm able to solo the highlighted dungeons, so they aren't an issue for me-- on my main characters, anyway-- but the others have mechanics or bosses that I can't handle solo. I'm happy to help anyone with the highlighted dungeons if I see them ask for help in chat, as long as the people I'm helping don't mind going slow due to my relatively low DPS.

Some sort of "story mode" or "easy mode" for dungeons would be nice, especially if that mode altered any mechanics which preclude soloing the dungeon-- but a lot of vet players might object to such a mode dropping any gear or achievements.

Desiato · March 19

This isn't necessary. Personally, I would hate this. I hate waiting around. The quests aren't infinitely enjoyable and having done them approximately 20 times is enough for me.

ZOS themselves recognized this issue early and corrected it in the later base game and DLC dungeons. They did so by making it so each stage of the quests complete automatically based on group progress.

They can easily adjust the few base game dungeons with quests that can break. It's shocking to me they haven't. @ZOS_Kevin this is a pain point that may fly under the radar but is incredibly impactful as part of the culture in ESO is levelling alts. It's such low hanging fruit too.

BasP · March 19

KaGaOri wrote: »

Orbital78 wrote: »

Direfrost actually can be, with tricks. I watched a streamer teach us how to solo it. It would be nice to have all dungeons doable solo on normal at least, but that isn't a fix for the root of the issue. The overly long roleplay dialogs need to be able to be bypassed or skipped when need be.

Even with tricks my bet is it can't be soloed for quest (which is reason why most go into old dungeons on alts). You need two ppl standing on the plates to progress. It doesn't matter if You've got through the gate somehow. It doesn't matter if another players already opened the gate for you. The quest will get broken unless two players stand on plates and open the gate after listening to the speaking stone.

All my lvl 50 characters can solo (at least some) base game dungeons. But the ones in need of the quests (xp, undaunted credit and skill points) are the newly made lowbies, who can't solo them yet.

You can actually still do the entire Dungeon, including the quest, solo. I just tried it on one of my characters that hadn't done the Dungeon yet just to be sure.

Okay, I wasn't entirely on my own. But Bastian still can't stand on a pressure plate, sadly .

AzuraFan · March 20

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Some sort of "story mode" or "easy mode" for dungeons would be nice, especially if that mode altered any mechanics which preclude soloing the dungeon-- but a lot of vet players might object to such a mode dropping any gear or achievements.

I've done all the normal dungeons (except the two new ones) and I wouldn't object to story mode granting the normal dungeon achievements. Running a normal dungeon with a pug (or other group) is easy. There's not much of a challenge. That's also true of running many of the basegame dungeons solo. The most challenging thing for me when pugging a dungeon is the queue wait time. So I certainly wouldn't pretend that I had to work harder than anyone running a dungeon solo on story mode difficulty, and I wouldn't begrudge anyone the normal achievements.

I also wouldn't care if gear dropped, but I'm not sure that would be a good idea, only because lots of people would abandon pugs for story mode. So maybe gear should only drop when a dungeon is run on normal or vet.

Amottica · March 20

Rittings wrote: »

Dungeons have long had buggy quests

If the dungeon quests are buggy why do we want to do them daily?

There is already something that brings many players into the dungeons daily. It is undaunted quests and the daily random dungeon reward.

Further, if one wants to ensure a dungeon quest is done in a controlled manner so everyone on the quests gets to experience it in total then we should form a dungeon group with everyone understanding the purpose of the group. That is so much easier than reworking aspects of the game to accommodate something like this.

Oh, and it will not solve the bugs unless the real goal is to be able to get the skill point without having to the quest.

spartaxoxo · March 20

Amottica wrote: »

If the dungeon quests are buggy why do we want to do them daily?

For rewards, one has nothing to do with the other.

Amottica · March 20

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

If the dungeon quests are buggy why do we want to do them daily?

For rewards, one has nothing to do with the other.

The first part of the premise for the entire suggestion was that dungeon quests were buggy. It was the very first statement. Yet the solution is the experience of dealing with it over and over.

My solution is a notable improvement.

spartaxoxo · March 20

Amottica wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

If the dungeon quests are buggy why do we want to do them daily?

For rewards, one has nothing to do with the other.

The first part of the premise for the entire suggestion was that dungeon quests were buggy. It was the very first statement. Yet the solution is the experience of dealing with it over and over.

My solution is a notable improvement.

Your solution doesn't address the issue and instead sidesteps the problem. It's like someone saying "there's a pothole on Necrom Avenue, we should get the city to fix the hole." And then someone else is " There's no pothole on Vivec Lane. Just drive around it. The city doesn't need to fix potholes."

I can drive around it and should if it is urgent. But that doesn't fill the pothole on Necrom.

A player should obviously not be able to skip someone else's quest so hard that even someone who is making no attempt to listen to or read it, and is simply spamming x, is unable to grab it. They should obviously fix the few quests that break because someone else ran ahead.

SwimsWithMemes · March 20

Amottica wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

If the dungeon quests are buggy why do we want to do them daily?

For rewards, one has nothing to do with the other.

The first part of the premise for the entire suggestion was that dungeon quests were buggy. It was the very first statement. Yet the solution is the experience of dealing with it over and over.

My solution is a notable improvement.

There can be changes to buggy quests, and also repeatable quests. These are not incompatible systems. I don't think the other user is advocating to force people to experience bugs repeatedly. Just rushing to end of dungeon is boring (but efficient)

GloatingSwine · March 20

KaGaOri wrote: »

Orbital78 wrote: »

Direfrost actually can be, with tricks. I watched a streamer teach us how to solo it. It would be nice to have all dungeons doable solo on normal at least, but that isn't a fix for the root of the issue. The overly long roleplay dialogs need to be able to be bypassed or skipped when need be.

Even with tricks my bet is it can't be soloed for quest (which is reason why most go into old dungeons on alts). You need two ppl standing on the plates to progress. It doesn't matter if You've got through the gate somehow. It doesn't matter if another players already opened the gate for you. The quest will get broken unless two players stand on plates and open the gate after listening to the speaking stone.

All my lvl 50 characters can solo (at least some) base game dungeons. But the ones in need of the quests (xp, undaunted credit and skill points) are the newly made lowbies, who can't solo them yet.

AFAIK almost all non-DLC dungeons can technically be soloed at least on normal, but some of the hard CC into kill effects need extremely good ultimate management and Blackheart needs a specific build around Leeching Plate and some luck to stack stuff into it to give enough health return to survive.

You can still clip through the door to bypass the plates in Direfrost and IIRC there's a really inconsistent glitch that lets a companion do Malubeth for you by starting the engagement whilst you're out of bounds for the fight but close enough not to reset her. Companions with the right spec can solo Ulguna Soul-reaver whilst you float around and watch (at least Isobel can).

The main problem is specific steps in base game dungeons that require NPC interaction that a player on the quest either has to wait foooreeeveer for them to stop yapping or go off the critical path. Redo those so they work like newer dungeons so the interaction follows the players automatically as they move through the dungeon and are present whether you're on the quest or not. See: Shipwright's Regret, Za'ji and Caska will be there doing their thing and you just listen as you follow the dungeon (a zillion times for Turning Tide).

Amottica · March 20

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

If the dungeon quests are buggy why do we want to do them daily?

For rewards, one has nothing to do with the other.

The first part of the premise for the entire suggestion was that dungeon quests were buggy. It was the very first statement. Yet the solution is the experience of dealing with it over and over.

My solution is a notable improvement.

Your solution doesn't address the issue and instead sidesteps the problem. It's like someone saying "there's a pothole on Necrom Avenue, we should get the city to fix the hole." And then someone else is " There's no pothole on Vivec Lane. Just drive around it. The city doesn't need to fix potholes."

I can drive around it and should if it is urgent. But that doesn't fill the pothole on Necrom.

A player should obviously not be able to skip someone else's quest so hard that even someone who is making no attempt to listen to or read it, and is simply spamming x, is unable to grab it. They should obviously fix the few quests that break because someone else ran ahead.

What? Myt suggestion addresses the issue of completing the quest, hence getting the skill points, very well. I have seen it work flawlessly hundreds of times because everyone is on the same page. Oh, and when someone has had to go afk for a moment, we waited. That is amazing and a very good track record.

Not sure what is up with the pothole I play ESO.

BXR_Lonestar · March 21

Wanna do the quest? Make them a daily repeatable whereby you get a coffer awarded at the end containing a piece of gear … thus making players wanting to come back in and do the quests over and over, as well as giving extra potential farm reducing loot. Win… win….win.

I actually like this idea. You repeat the quest, and you get a curated drop from a box in addition to the boss drop. So in terms of farming, you have incentive to go in there and actually do the quest because doing so will allow you to complete your sticker book twice as fast. Good idea!

ImmortalCX · March 21

frogthroat wrote: »

Rittings wrote: »

Wanna do the quest? Make them a daily repeatable whereby you get a coffer awarded at the end containing a piece of gear … thus making players wanting to come back in and do the quests over and over, as well as giving extra potential farm reducing loot. Win… win….win.

I actually wouldn't mind a repeatable quest even if it offered nothing more than low xp.

Since the skill point is tied to the quest, I have quickly ran through all the quests to get the skill point. Only when there is a new dungeon, then I go with friends/guildies to listen to the story and once that is done, just run it quickly for the skill point with other characters.

This means I only know the stories of those dungeons that have come after I started playing this game. I have no idea what the story behind, say, Vault of Madness is. It's weird they want to make them repeatable dungeons, but do not make the quest repeatable. If you want the story, better get it on the first go or it's too late.

True. But people have videos on youtube that show the quests.

Credible_Joe · March 21

ImmortalCX wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Rittings wrote: »

Wanna do the quest? Make them a daily repeatable whereby you get a coffer awarded at the end containing a piece of gear … thus making players wanting to come back in and do the quests over and over, as well as giving extra potential farm reducing loot. Win… win….win.

I actually wouldn't mind a repeatable quest even if it offered nothing more than low xp.

Since the skill point is tied to the quest, I have quickly ran through all the quests to get the skill point. Only when there is a new dungeon, then I go with friends/guildies to listen to the story and once that is done, just run it quickly for the skill point with other characters.

This means I only know the stories of those dungeons that have come after I started playing this game. I have no idea what the story behind, say, Vault of Madness is. It's weird they want to make them repeatable dungeons, but do not make the quest repeatable. If you want the story, better get it on the first go or it's too late.

True. But people have videos on youtube that show the quests.

You're aware that character decisions happen in dungeon quests, right? A lot of people aren't, and have no idea what impact their characters have had on different storylines.

Makes me wonder how many people know they executed all of the tribe elders in Mazzatun, or neglected to free the captives in spindleclutch. In Dread Cellar, did you spare or execute Martus?

For reward focused speed runners, none of that matters. But the way things are now, the people it does matter to have to jump through a lot of hoops just to experience it themselves and properly line up their character decisions.