What changed in this patch regarding PVP?

Pixiepumpkin · March 14

Pretty much power played through Whitestrakes Mayhem, power played through this past deathmatch weekend.
All was well, doing my thing.

I changed nothing. Not build, not gear, not playstyle.

Since the patch, I am getting literally globaled, dying so fast I don't even see it coming. Full health + shield (I am a full mag sorc) and I fall down dead before I even see the enemy player.

This has happened every match since the patch, no hyperobole.

Is there an exploit being abused regarding Lamp Knight's Art set? I am seeing numbers hit me like I am naked. Numbers hitting me like I hit in PVE.

Gankform · March 14

with 100k Offensive Pen yes u are naked:P

Renato90085 · March 14

Today I have a 8v8 BG like this
35k+ health and necro class tank set /28k+armor /group member have rallying cry + warden healer
But I still dead in 2 sec sometime(I blocking

Thumbless_Bot · March 14

Flags in crazy and domination now spawn in more places in 4v4. At least one the map or two I've done 4v4 on.

Should always have an odd number of flags, but it's a start.

xylena_lazarow · March 14

Probably just that Mayhem and the Deathmatch event were both full of noobs who leave when it's done, now post event you're fighting against all the sweatlords and diehards.

Tommy_The_Gun · March 14

https://eso-sets.com/set/lamp-knights-art
(5 items) Gain 100000 Offensive Penetration. Reduce your damage done by 46%.

I would guess that people compensate dmg loss with high crit chance & buffs, so dmg loss is minimal.

Gankform · March 14

yes high crit and shadow boon

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

https://eso-sets.com/set/lamp-knights-art
(5 items) Gain 100000 Offensive Penetration. Reduce your damage done by 46%.

I would guess that people compensate dmg loss with high crit chance & buffs, so dmg loss is minimal.

yes high crit rate, shadow boon +2 Cp crit dmg and Race Against and all good...dmg is very high

tomofhyrule · March 14

Also remember that now that MYM is over that all of the beginner PvPers and the PvErs are also burnt out on PvP for the next six months, so the only people you're going to see in PvP are the hyper-competitive pro PvPers.

It's going to be a much different arena in terms of player skill as well.

Vulkunne · March 14

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Pretty much power played through Whitestrakes Mayhem, power played through this past deathmatch weekend.
All was well, doing my thing.

I changed nothing. Not build, not gear, not playstyle.

Since the patch, I am getting literally globaled, dying so fast I don't even see it coming. Full health + shield (I am a full mag sorc) and I fall down dead before I even see the enemy player.

This has happened every match since the patch, no hyperobole.

Is there an exploit being abused regarding Lamp Knight's Art set? I am seeing numbers hit me like I am naked. Numbers hitting me like I hit in PVE.

You are correct, something is amiss here. At this point I'm really trying to decide if maybe I should forget about logging in to Cyrodiil because more than a few players are doing so much damage so fast it doesn't matter how strong your build is you're just going to die without a fight or any time to react.

Estin · March 14

Wait until week 2 of April. Event players are taking a break, and your MMR is probably insanely high, so you're being matched with the meta abusers. The only significant change with PvP balance this patch was nerfing Way of Fire to proc only on L/H attacks which only affects pressure builds. I'm certain the math was already done on Lamp Knights to see that it's not that great of a set.

Theignson · March 14

Estin wrote: »

Wait until week 2 of April. Event players are taking a break, and your MMR is probably insanely high, so you're being matched with the meta abusers. The only significant change with PvP balance this patch was nerfing Way of Fire to proc only on L/H attacks which only affects pressure builds. I'm certain the math was already done on Lamp Knights to see that it's not that great of a set.

There used to be experts on this game who could actually do the math! I remember years ago there was a long 12 page thread on damage calculation.

But basically 100k penetration is like corrosive all the time, so there is no phy/spell resist. There would still be crit resist. So if you build high crit resist it would mitigate the damage of this set if people are boosting damage by using high critchance/damage builds to offset the 46% loss ofdirect damage. But I can't tell how good the set is TBH

Sluggy · March 14

If I had to take my guess I'd say it's networking and performance related. I've had all kinds of latency issues since a day or two before the patch. And I was suddenly going from 100 to 0 in the blink of an eye. I re-enabled an addon to see what kind of damage I was taking and nothing really seemed amiss except the timing. It looked like things were all coming in at the same time, likely due to network hiccups.

ssewallb14_ESO · March 14

They "hard coded" the base 10% damage reduction, without giving any specifics other than it should be a slight net mitigation increase over the previous hidden buff.

That being said, I feel like I'm taking slightly more damage.

Did anyone actually test this to confirm it's working and that the numbers make sense? It wouldn't surprise me if we've been Zenimath'd.

Renato90085 · March 14

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

They "hard coded" the base 10% damage reduction, without giving any specifics other than it should be a slight net mitigation increase over the previous hidden buff.

That being said, I feel like I'm taking slightly more damage.

Did anyone actually test this to confirm it's working and that the numbers make sense? It wouldn't surprise me if we've been Zenimath'd.

I noticed I not get one shot dead by dsrhm twin bash mechanic
Yesterday run need 2 shot dead.

Pixiepumpkin · March 15

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Probably just that Mayhem and the Deathmatch event were both full of noobs who leave when it's done, now post event you're fighting against all the sweatlords and diehards.

No.
I am still top scoring on my team. If your assertion was the case, I should also be on teams with "the sweat lords", but that is not happening.

Unless the "sweatlords" are doing as many have said, and group queuing into solo que BGs (this IS happening) which is why I rarely get into the "sweatlords" groups.

My win rate has dropped drastically, statisically this should not happen and yet....

Pixiepumpkin · March 15

Renato90085 wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

They "hard coded" the base 10% damage reduction, without giving any specifics other than it should be a slight net mitigation increase over the previous hidden buff.

That being said, I feel like I'm taking slightly more damage.

Did anyone actually test this to confirm it's working and that the numbers make sense? It wouldn't surprise me if we've been Zenimath'd.

I noticed I not get one shot dead by dsrhm twin bash mechanic
Yesterday run need 2 shot dead.

Blast bones is NUKING me hard. I am thinking, no I am knowing that not all damage is being reduced by Lamp Knights. The set is being exploited right now.

I tried it, and did TERRIBLE damage even when paring with crit, damage buffs, crit damage etc.

xylena_lazarow · March 15

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

I am still top scoring on my team

My win rate has dropped drastically

Sorry you lost me there. Nothing feels different to me, I keep forgetting there was even an update.

BejaProphet · March 15

@Pixiepumpkin

How are groups Q’ing into solo matches?

I’ve ran into several groups that seemed suspiciously well coordinated and I’ve suspected this. But how do you know?

xylena_lazarow · March 15

BejaProphet wrote: »

I’ve ran into several groups that seemed suspiciously well coordinated

If you've played in coordinated smallscale or ball groups for years, and you randomly end up in a group with someone else who has done this, it's not that hard to watch each other move and deploy familiar tactics.

Pixiepumpkin · March 15

BejaProphet wrote: »

@Pixiepumpkin

How are groups Q’ing into solo matches?

I’ve ran into several groups that seemed suspiciously well coordinated and I’ve suspected this. But how do you know?

1. I see the same people playing together back to back to back to back.
2. I can tell by their coordination. One player pulls, the second stuns/execute. It happens to fast to be "organic".
3. Others in PVP guilds have told me they are doing this.

Right now, my wife is in her own game, I am in my own game because we cant group queue into premade PVP without stupid wait times. Yet, PVP guilds are queuing together to steamroll pugs.

They have an advantage that is only created through abuse. Its LITERALLY cheating.

Pixiepumpkin · March 15

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

I am still top scoring on my team

My win rate has dropped drastically

Sorry you lost me there. Nothing feels different to me, I keep forgetting there was even an update.

Odd, because everything feels different to me. I am getting nuked much harder, latancy is worse, skill queue is worse, facing the same premades over and over.

I mean when I am running, just running, and I am full health, and I have a shield up and I just drop dead like the ESO devs unplugged my toon...ya, has not happened before, started IMMEDIATELY after the update and has persisted since the update.

Its literally unplayable. I can't play against/counter what I cant see.

Avran_Sylt · March 15

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Renato90085 wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

They "hard coded" the base 10% damage reduction, without giving any specifics other than it should be a slight net mitigation increase over the previous hidden buff.

That being said, I feel like I'm taking slightly more damage.

Did anyone actually test this to confirm it's working and that the numbers make sense? It wouldn't surprise me if we've been Zenimath'd.

I noticed I not get one shot dead by dsrhm twin bash mechanic
Yesterday run need 2 shot dead.

Blast bones is NUKING me hard. I am thinking, no I am knowing that not all damage is being reduced by Lamp Knights. The set is being exploited right now.

I tried it, and did TERRIBLE damage even when paring with crit, damage buffs, crit damage etc.

Huh. You know what, I wonder if the player damage reduction is reflected onto pet damage (and if blastbones is pet damage). Not that I have the stuff to test it out atm.

Major_Mangle · March 15

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

@Pixiepumpkin

How are groups Q’ing into solo matches?

I’ve ran into several groups that seemed suspiciously well coordinated and I’ve suspected this. But how do you know?

1. I see the same people playing together back to back to back to back.
2. I can tell by their coordination. One player pulls, the second stuns/execute. It happens to fast to be "organic".
3. Others in PVP guilds have told me they are doing this.

Right now, my wife is in her own game, I am in my own game because we cant group queue into premade PVP without stupid wait times. Yet, PVP guilds are queuing together to steamroll pugs.

They have an advantage that is only created through abuse. Its LITERALLY cheating.

The bolded part is the main reason they do it, no one likes sitting in a 20 min queue just to steamroll a bg (maybe some do idk). Add to the fact that no proper premades actually queue anymore. The few times I queue for group queue with a friend it's a seal club 9/10 times, which becomes boring really quickly. I know that some guilds occasionally get like 6-8 people to coordinate queueing into the solo queue with the intention to "tryhard" eachother (I've been part of such events a few times and it's quite funny), but ofc there will be those who do it with the intention to seal sclub in the solo queue. It is what it is. Not much one can do about it.

Pixiepumpkin · March 15

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Renato90085 wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

They "hard coded" the base 10% damage reduction, without giving any specifics other than it should be a slight net mitigation increase over the previous hidden buff.

That being said, I feel like I'm taking slightly more damage.

Did anyone actually test this to confirm it's working and that the numbers make sense? It wouldn't surprise me if we've been Zenimath'd.

I noticed I not get one shot dead by dsrhm twin bash mechanic
Yesterday run need 2 shot dead.

Blast bones is NUKING me hard. I am thinking, no I am knowing that not all damage is being reduced by Lamp Knights. The set is being exploited right now.

I tried it, and did TERRIBLE damage even when paring with crit, damage buffs, crit damage etc.

Huh. You know what, I wonder if the player damage reduction is reflected onto pet damage (and if blastbones is pet damage). Not that I have the stuff to test it out atm.

I dunna. Coud be. All I know is that the math has already been done on the set and it mirrors what I have seen in my own tests, but since this patch I am seeing necromancers come out of the woodwork, a LOT less sorcs (shields took a huge nerf) and I am getting literally globabled, I mean LITERALLY dead from 100 + shield to dead without even seeing the player. I have literally gone from running + shield and went directly to the death screen, never even see any form of animation.

Its was not happening prior to the patch, now it happens in every game, its not normal. I just wish for once that "latancy" worked in my favor. Instead I have to play constant cat and mouse for a win.

Pixiepumpkin · March 15

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

@Pixiepumpkin

How are groups Q’ing into solo matches?

I’ve ran into several groups that seemed suspiciously well coordinated and I’ve suspected this. But how do you know?

1. I see the same people playing together back to back to back to back.
2. I can tell by their coordination. One player pulls, the second stuns/execute. It happens to fast to be "organic".
3. Others in PVP guilds have told me they are doing this.

Right now, my wife is in her own game, I am in my own game because we cant group queue into premade PVP without stupid wait times. Yet, PVP guilds are queuing together to steamroll pugs.

They have an advantage that is only created through abuse. Its LITERALLY cheating.

The bolded part is the main reason they do it, no one likes sitting in a 20 min queue just to steamroll a bg (maybe some do idk). Add to the fact that no proper premades actually queue anymore. The few times I queue for group queue with a friend it's a seal club 9/10 times, which becomes boring really quickly. I know that some guilds occasionally get like 6-8 people to coordinate queueing into the solo queue with the intention to "tryhard" eachother (I've been part of such events a few times and it's quite funny), but ofc there will be those who do it with the intention to seal sclub in the solo queue. It is what it is. Not much one can do about it.

I agree there is nothing we can do about it, but there is something ZOS can do about it, so we need to make our voices loud so they know this is an issue.

Becaues as it stands right now, I see ZERO reason to enter into PVP. 1. I cant win. 2. I dont get dailies completed. 3. Its frustrating. 4. Its not fun knowing the game is LITERALLY rigged against me (or anyone in any team I am in).

Thank you for your detailed answer to what is going on regarding premades and solo queuing.

TheValkyn · March 15

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

https://eso-sets.com/set/lamp-knights-art
(5 items) Gain 100000 Offensive Penetration. Reduce your damage done by 46%.

I would guess that people compensate dmg loss with high crit chance & buffs, so dmg loss is minimal.

I haven’t played the new patch yet but I almost wonder if this set is making people go into negative armor numbers.

[snip]
[edited for bashing]

moo_2021 · March 15

isn't damage done the last of calculation steps? so it's -46% with the set vs -50% at max resist?

People complained in PTS it's not cost effective unless target armor is over 30k.

CalamityCat · March 16

If you suspect something shady, record record logs of battles and use any combat metrics add-ons you can to look at exactly what happened.

Sorcs are strong in PvP, so it makes sense that some players build to counteract them. I wouldn't call that an exploit unless I had logs and maybe a video to show something actually naughty was happening.

Pixiepumpkin · March 16

CalamityCat wrote: »

If you suspect something shady, record record logs of battles and use any combat metrics add-ons you can to look at exactly what happened.

Sorcs are strong in PvP, so it makes sense that some players build to counteract them. I wouldn't call that an exploit unless I had logs and maybe a video to show something actually naughty was happening.

Its not just happening to sorcs. It's also happening to tank builds with high health while blocking.
Sorcs WERE strong in PVP. The nerf to shields hit hard. Before 4 days ago, I could shield, get a hit in before shielding again. Now literally spamming shields will not keep me alive against 1 strong player, nevermind 2.

Outside of that. Going from full health (30k) + shield to INSTANT dead, literally instant dead, do not even see combat. I go from alive to death recap without seeing anything inbetween. That is not an effect of "sorcs are strong so people build to counter".

I died to a winter storm ult in 3 hits yesterday. Something is off.

Turtle_Bot · March 16

Server performance has been pretty bad this patch (I am disconnecting a lot more frequently than last patch and especially the past few days have noticed a lot of ping spikes, even with my VPN helping to reduce those spikes)

CalamityCat · March 16

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

CalamityCat wrote: »

Its not just happening to sorcs. It's also happening to tank builds with high health while blocking.
Sorcs WERE strong in PVP. The nerf to shields hit hard. Before 4 days ago, I could shield, get a hit in before shielding again. Now literally spamming shields will not keep me alive against 1 strong player, nevermind 2.

Outside of that. Going from full health (30k) + shield to INSTANT dead, literally instant dead, do not even see combat. I go from alive to death recap without seeing anything inbetween. That is not an effect of "sorcs are strong so people build to counter".

I died to a winter storm ult in 3 hits yesterday. Something is off.

Tanks also are a build that players expect and build to counter though. Again, if you think something shady is going on the devs can't it unless it's reproducible. Hence why I suggested taking logs to see everything that's happening.

The insta death thing was certainly happening pre-update, but I haven't had it happen and not understood why. Log fights and see what turns up.