Unavoidable Inescapable Dark Convergence

SpiritofESO · March 12

You can't see it coming and when you finally do see it, you can't avoid it, usually.

It applies a 60% snare. It pulls you into the center. It stuns you. Then it does massive damage to you and the other unfortunate players who have been caught up in this excessively used and excessively powerful proc.

And, with a 25-second re-use timer and the fact that every ball group or zerg has multiple people using Dark Convergence, you can expect to see it over and over again.

It is an overly proc-dependent crutch for poor gameplay, simply put.

Isn't it time to rebalance these overly explosive proc sets? Sets like Dark Convergence and Vicious Death which are often used together to ensure maximum damage for minimum skill and effort?

freespirit · March 12

It's pretty good fun against Ball groups too, both sets! 😁

Kaelthorn_Nightbloom · March 12

SpiritofESO wrote: »

You can't see it coming and when you finally do see it, you can't avoid it, usually.

If you're not used to it then it seems that way. But after several thousand Dark Convergence over the past 3-4 years, I've developed muscle memory and instinctively block strafe out of maybe 19 out of 20 Dark Convergence. So it may eventually be the same for you.

Rush of Agony is the real issue because you can't see it coming if you aren't facing the player that proc'd Rush. You can be pulled from off screen very easily but that's not the case with Dark Convergence because of the telegraph.

xFocused · March 13

I’m not entirely sure how you can’t see it proccing. It places a rather large purple AoE on the ground exactly where it’s going to pull you at. I’d say it’s definitely easier to counter than the Rush of Agony proc

Jaimeh · March 13

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

SpiritofESO wrote: »

You can't see it coming and when you finally do see it, you can't avoid it, usually.

If you're not used to it then it seems that way. But after several thousand Dark Convergence over the past 3-4 years, I've developed muscle memory and instinctively block strafe out of maybe 19 out of 20 Dark Convergence. So it may eventually be the same for you.

Rush of Agony is the real issue because you can't see it coming if you aren't facing the player that proc'd Rush. You can be pulled from off screen very easily but that's not the case with Dark Convergence because of the telegraph.

Same here, I avoid the majority now, even in squishier builds, whereas rush gets me a lot more. I agree with OP that it's poor gameplay (I play a bomber and it's only because it's a playstyle I have access to with my level, ping, and so on in PvP) but I do think it has a place in the game as a (much needed) zerg-buster.

kiwi_tea · March 13

I find I almost never die to DC by following this method.

- The moment I hear the audio proc, I block.
- I then dodgeroll backwards.
- I then hit a burst heal in case I took damage (often I don't take any).

If I get really, really unlucky some players might be nearby with 20k HP who proc a 30K Vicious Death hit, but most of the time I'd avoid being anywhere near a squishy person in the first place.

Dark Convergence is much, much easier to avoid than Rush of Agony. Rush of Agony with New Zealand latency is an absolute joke of a set.

darvaria · March 13

Both VD and Dark Convergence should ONLY hit players that are in the same group. It should NOT set any random player around. I don't even help around flags, doors or repair anymore. I don't care if my appliance loses every campaign enough to stand around and die to bombers. These sets should only hit players that are inside the same group.

Turtle_Bot · March 13

Never really had much issue with Convergence, as noted, the telegraphs the proc has are very distinct and unique to that set.
- Giant purple visual
- Unique and loud sound effect

Rush of Agony on the other hand it just straight up broken in it's current iteration, especially when used against players that have high ping/latency due to living far away from the servers.

kiwi_tea wrote: »

Dark Convergence is much, much easier to avoid than Rush of Agony. Rush of Agony with New Zealand latency is an absolute joke of a set.

Aussie latency here, agreed, Rush is a complete joke of a set.

WaywardArgonian · March 13

This may have been true many years ago but Dark Convergence is super easy to avoid now. Just hold block when you hear the sound of a toilet flushing.

Tcholl · March 13

Well, most of the ballgroups I know doesn't even use DC nowdays. ROA is much more popular, along the scribing skill for the double pull and fear.

DC and ROA are both easy to avoid, specially Dark Convergence. With due respect, you complain about no skill, but it doesn't take much skill either to be aware and block. Also, don't stack with players with super low health and with no clue of what is happening in there.

Players are already playing packed together, grouped or not, even in solo BGs. We need those tools to at least balance some of that and create a risk factor.

Pixiepumpkin · March 13

Its not Dark Convergence, that is easy enough to roll dodge out of due to the massive purple aoe underneath you.

Rush of Agony however has an 8 second CD, and you do not see it coming. There are also some exploits happening right now. As of yesterdays patch I am seeing damage numbers against me going up MASSIVELY. Meaning I get 1 shot with a shield and do not even see the attack happen. I literally just fall down dead in the middle of running. This is with 200 ping on average.

Tcholl · March 13

If someone, specially a group, try to pull you just block. If you do it properly and have enough stam, chances are you will be alright. This is actually how groups defend themselves from other groups using rush. Also, everyone using this bomber system will go for the pull and retreat for buffs. If you identify their pattern, you can position yourself to avoid being pulled.

Also, as I said before, mind low health players and avoid stack with them.

LPapirius · March 13

Tcholl wrote: »

If someone, specially a group, try to pull you just block. If you do it properly and have enough stam, chances are you will be alright. This is actually how groups defend themselves from other groups using rush. Also, everyone using this bomber system will go for the pull and retreat for buffs. If you identify their pattern, you can position yourself to avoid being pulled.

Also, as I said before, mind low health players and avoid stack with them.

This is not a valid or working counter to RoA. Maybe if there wasn't so much lag, desync's and performance issues your suggestions would be workable, but they certainly aren't given the current state of Cyrodiil performance.

Joy_Division · March 13

Tcholl wrote: »

If someone, specially a group, try to pull you just block. If you do it properly and have enough stam, chances are you will be alright. This is actually how groups defend themselves from other groups using rush. Also, everyone using this bomber system will go for the pull and retreat for buffs. If you identify their pattern, you can position yourself to avoid being pulled.

Also, as I said before, mind low health players and avoid stack with them.

Nope. Group members defend themselves by having their support/healer buddies spamming/providing them with HoTs, absorption shields, minor evasion, major + minor expedition, resource sustain while their DPS buddies are in close proximity such that they can be confident that when remaining very slow/immobile, they wont be isolated and surrounded by the ball group trying to pull them. That is a lot more than "just block."

Raid leads rightly call out their members for getting killed by Rush of Agony because with such a lavish support system it isn't that difficult for individual group members to neutralize the threat.

Tcholl · March 13

Joy_Division wrote: »

Tcholl wrote: »

If someone, specially a group, try to pull you just block. If you do it properly and have enough stam, chances are you will be alright. This is actually how groups defend themselves from other groups using rush. Also, everyone using this bomber system will go for the pull and retreat for buffs. If you identify their pattern, you can position yourself to avoid being pulled.

Also, as I said before, mind low health players and avoid stack with them.

Nope. Group members defend themselves by having their support/healer buddies spamming/providing them with HoTs, absorption shields, minor evasion, major + minor expedition, resource sustain while their DPS buddies are in close proximity such that they can be confident that when remaining very slow/immobile, they wont be isolated and surrounded by the ball group trying to pull them. That is a lot more than "just block."

Raid leads rightly call out their members for getting killed by Rush of Agony because with such a lavish support system it isn't that difficult for individual group members to neutralize the threat.

Well, if you want to go to that route, I will not debate with you. I am tired of endless discussions with players that hate ballgroups and believe all groups are powerfull and unkilable. This is not the case, at all.

I have ran in different ballgroups and also play solo. I have no issues myself with ROA or DC mechs. Someone explained to me how to avoid the pulls and I am sharing the same experience here.

Tcholl · March 13

LPapirius wrote: »

Tcholl wrote: »

If someone, specially a group, try to pull you just block. If you do it properly and have enough stam, chances are you will be alright. This is actually how groups defend themselves from other groups using rush. Also, everyone using this bomber system will go for the pull and retreat for buffs. If you identify their pattern, you can position yourself to avoid being pulled.

Also, as I said before, mind low health players and avoid stack with them.

This is not a valid or working counter to RoA. Maybe if there wasn't so much lag, desync's and performance issues your suggestions would be workable, but they certainly aren't given the current state of Cyrodiil performance.

Lag is there for everything and everyone. Set mechs and lag are different issues.

Joy_Division · March 13

Tcholl wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Tcholl wrote: »

If someone, specially a group, try to pull you just block. If you do it properly and have enough stam, chances are you will be alright. This is actually how groups defend themselves from other groups using rush. Also, everyone using this bomber system will go for the pull and retreat for buffs. If you identify their pattern, you can position yourself to avoid being pulled.

Also, as I said before, mind low health players and avoid stack with them.

Nope. Group members defend themselves by having their support/healer buddies spamming/providing them with HoTs, absorption shields, minor evasion, major + minor expedition, resource sustain while their DPS buddies are in close proximity such that they can be confident that when remaining very slow/immobile, they wont be isolated and surrounded by the ball group trying to pull them. That is a lot more than "just block."

Raid leads rightly call out their members for getting killed by Rush of Agony because with such a lavish support system it isn't that difficult for individual group members to neutralize the threat.

Well, if you want to go to that route, I will not debate with you. I am tired of endless discussions with players that hate ballgroups and believe all groups are powerfull and unkilable. This is not the case, at all.

I have ran in different ballgroups and also play solo. I have no issues myself with ROA or DC mechs. Someone explained to me how to avoid the pulls and I am sharing the same experience here.

I hear you.

But a good way to put an end to these endless discussions/hate is to acknowledge trash mechanics as trash so that the ZOS devs will not be confused by our feedback, not offer us pointless "improvements" to problematic sets, and feel pressured to to resolve outstanding issues.

I would say that more often than not, I too avoid RoA (DarK Convergence is not even in the same ballpark. I disagree with the OP that the set is a problem). But more often than not is not good enough with RoA because the penalty for failure is often immediate death. The success rate needs to be consistent and high, otherwise the game is going to be not fun to play.

So for these threads I - who have played in groups since 2014 - say the set is bad: breaks ZOS's own standards, not fun for ordinary players, not even fun for groups as our whole strategies now 100% revolve around this terrible set.

Tcholl · March 13

I have never defended DC or ROA mechs, just shared some experience on how to deal with those. I play both sides of this coin, so I felt would be good to share my 2 cents. I agree that ROA is a very strong and it is being over used, for sure. As per DC, really thing this set is in a good place tbh.

DeadlySerious · March 13

Tcholl wrote: »

If someone, specially a group, try to pull you just block. If you do it properly and have enough stam, chances are you will be alright. This is actually how groups defend themselves from other groups using rush. Also, everyone using this bomber system will go for the pull and retreat for buffs. If you identify their pattern, you can position yourself to avoid being pulled.

Also, as I said before, mind low health players and avoid stack with them.

Blocking does nothing to stop the RoA pull because it's virtually impossible to see or hear it coming. Then once you're pulled it does not apply CC immunity like every other pull or knockback in the game. So RoA breaks ZOS' own rules for set design.

You aren't making a good faithed argument. You're just defending the use of a broken set that is being abused by ball groups and cloakblades.

Tcholl · March 13

DeadlySerious wrote: »

Tcholl wrote: »

If someone, specially a group, try to pull you just block. If you do it properly and have enough stam, chances are you will be alright. This is actually how groups defend themselves from other groups using rush. Also, everyone using this bomber system will go for the pull and retreat for buffs. If you identify their pattern, you can position yourself to avoid being pulled.

Also, as I said before, mind low health players and avoid stack with them.

Blocking does nothing to stop the RoA pull because it's virtually impossible to see or hear it coming. Then once you're pulled it does not apply CC immunity like every other pull or knockback in the game. So RoA breaks ZOS' own rules for set design.

You aren't making an honest argument. You're just defending the use of a broken set that is being abused by ball groups and cloakblades.

I just wrote on the previous post that I have never defended this or any set. Relax.

If you have issues blocking the pulls, good luck enjoying pvp in this game, since it is currently a parade of pulls and double pulls, along stun, charm, immob, etc.

Also, you are the one not being honest here, accusing me of stuff, when I just tried to share experience and help.

DeadlySerious · March 13

Tcholl wrote: »

DeadlySerious wrote: »

Tcholl wrote: »

If someone, specially a group, try to pull you just block. If you do it properly and have enough stam, chances are you will be alright. This is actually how groups defend themselves from other groups using rush. Also, everyone using this bomber system will go for the pull and retreat for buffs. If you identify their pattern, you can position yourself to avoid being pulled.

Also, as I said before, mind low health players and avoid stack with them.

Blocking does nothing to stop the RoA pull because it's virtually impossible to see or hear it coming. Then once you're pulled it does not apply CC immunity like every other pull or knockback in the game. So RoA breaks ZOS' own rules for set design.

You aren't making an honest argument. You're just defending the use of a broken set that is being abused by ball groups and cloakblades.

I just wrote on the previous post that I have never defended this or any set. Relax.

If you have issues blocking the pulls, good luck enjoying pvp in this game, since it is currently a parade of pulls and double pulls, along stun, charm, immob, etc.

Also, you are the one not being honest here, accusing me of stuff, when I just tried to share experience and help.

You're right. My phrasing was inexact. I should have said you weren't making a good faith argument because everyone in Cyrodiil and BG's knows full well how bad RoA is when it comes to balance and defending against.

Tcholl · March 13

Of course it is a strong set and over used in PvP. I am not here saying anything otherwise. It is also a very annoying mech.

Yes, I use this set and all the ballgroups I have ran use it too. You can't fault anyone for that. If it is changed, everyone will adapt.

Again, my goal is just to help some players that might be unware that this pull can be block and how it would happen out there.

AngryNecro · March 14

Well, I just came in and immediately came across this. ZOS has already trimmed the new set from update 45 and removed the control that was originally there. The new monster set was also trimmed. What else do you need? Maybe stop cry about these sets. Such requests will simply lead to the fact that pvp will be turned into standard sets for everyone and the same skills for everyone. There is no problem to resist these sets if you know how to play. I declare expertly that the hysteria about these kits is exaggerated. Yes, you can find videos where NB kills the crowd in them. You may come across my necromancer on a 4x4 BG in these kits. But these are not invulnerable builds. They're just good. It's not even "meta," even though it doesn't exist at all. Anyone who has difficulties with this set is welcome to consult, I will explain to you how to overcome them. All these complaints about these sets have already ruined the 45 update in intresting set. These sets don't even come close to matching the heaviness of sorka's streak and scribing's class record. pls stop that fake isteria about that sets.
And one more. Do you now you can get that set in youre bild, whats wrong with that? DC you can buy in market.

ZOS pls dont cut RoA and DC. its absolutley normal and not disbalanse set. game have too many other thing to balansed.

kiwi_tea · March 14

AngryNecro wrote: »

Well, I just came in and immediately came across this. ZOS has already trimmed the new set from update 45 and removed the control that was originally there. The new monster set was also trimmed. What else do you need? Maybe stop cry about these sets. Such requests will simply lead to the fact that pvp will be turned into standard sets for everyone and the same skills for everyone. There is no problem to resist these sets if you know how to play. I declare expertly that the hysteria about these kits is exaggerated. Yes, you can find videos where NB kills the crowd in them. You may come across my necromancer on a 4x4 BG in these kits. But these are not invulnerable builds. They're just good. It's not even "meta," even though it doesn't exist at all. Anyone who has difficulties with this set is welcome to consult, I will explain to you how to overcome them. All these complaints about these sets have already ruined the 45 update in intresting set. These sets don't even come close to matching the heaviness of sorka's streak and scribing's class record. pls stop that fake isteria about that sets.
And one more. Do you now you can get that set in youre bild, whats wrong with that? DC you can buy in market.

ZOS pls dont cut RoA and DC. its absolutley normal and not disbalanse set. game have too many other thing to balansed.

RoA is not normal, because it:

(a) Totally ignores the previously established in-game rules around CC and CC immunity. Just make it apply CC immunity for starters.
(b) Disproportionately punishes players on higher ping more than any other set does or conceivably could, because no matter how safe you look on your screen, you may get pulled. You can be miles out of range on your screen and still be pulled. Desync is an unavoidable issue without Oceanic/Asian servers, but with RoA it's actually ridiculous. If Oceanic/Asia servers cannot exist, ESO can at least respect that we have to play on NA and make allowances in their design for that.

Dark Convergence, in comparison to RoA, is fine and pretty easy to counter because it has a huge telegraph both visually and in audio, and is not nearly as "dynamic" a pull as RoA so doesn't have the same desync issues generally.

AngryNecro · March 14

kiwi_tea wrote: »

RoA is not normal, because it:

(a) Totally ignores the previously established in-game rules around CC and CC immunity. Just make it apply CC immunity for starters.
(b) Disproportionately punishes players on higher ping more than any other set does or conceivably could, because no matter how safe you look on your screen, you may get pulled. You can be miles out of range on your screen and still be pulled. Desync is an unavoidable issue without Oceanic/Asian servers, but with RoA it's actually ridiculous. If Oceanic/Asia servers cannot exist, ESO can at least respect that we have to play on NA and make allowances in their design for that.

Dark Convergence, in comparison to RoA, is fine and pretty easy to counter because it has a huge telegraph both visually and in audio, and is not nearly as "dynamic" a pull as RoA so doesn't have the same desync issues generally.

ping? its not game problem, not problem other pleyrs. why that reason is heare?

a) i see you never see me in RoA + DC) or my future bild with RoA + DC + new monster set. Or you never see 2 warden with charm what havent cc too what with them? I can use RoA + DC + new monster + scrubing Attraction and even such a whirlpool can be resisted. All that rules go to garbege long time ago. Again, if you need advice on how, I can tell you. And then you have 1.5 seconds to rolldodge, what with it?

NoSoup · March 14

Probably the wrong thread, and I haven't tried this as I don't have a RoA build to try it on. But in the 4x4 BG map Mota-ka, when you're wrestling for one of the outer flags, if you time your streak and jump off the cliff correctly will RoA pull the players off the cliff with you? I know templars can Javlin people off the edges there, super annoying.

kiwi_tea · March 14

AngryNecro wrote: »

kiwi_tea wrote: »

RoA is not normal, because it:

(a) Totally ignores the previously established in-game rules around CC and CC immunity. Just make it apply CC immunity for starters.
(b) Disproportionately punishes players on higher ping more than any other set does or conceivably could, because no matter how safe you look on your screen, you may get pulled. You can be miles out of range on your screen and still be pulled. Desync is an unavoidable issue without Oceanic/Asian servers, but with RoA it's actually ridiculous. If Oceanic/Asia servers cannot exist, ESO can at least respect that we have to play on NA and make allowances in their design for that.

Dark Convergence, in comparison to RoA, is fine and pretty easy to counter because it has a huge telegraph both visually and in audio, and is not nearly as "dynamic" a pull as RoA so doesn't have the same desync issues generally.

ping? its not game problem, not problem other pleyrs. why that reason is heare?

a) i see you never see me in RoA + DC) or my future bild with RoA + DC + new monster set. Or you never see 2 warden with charm what havent cc too what with them? I can use RoA + DC + new monster + scrubing Attraction and even such a whirlpool can be resisted. All that rules go to garbege long time ago. Again, if you need advice on how, I can tell you. And then you have 1.5 seconds to rolldodge, what with it?

Why would you even combine RoA with DC? It totally dilutes what makes RoA strong, which is that it doesn't apply CC immunity. Dark Convergence undermines that because it DOES apply CC immunity. Also, they're not great in combination just generally. The build sounds bad, so it isn't shocking that people aren't have issues with it and finding it easy to avoid. I don't need advice on how to a avoid a Necro running RoA + DC in combination, cos I don't think I'd ever find that a threat. Thanks though.

A *good* RoA build - a brawler bomber or VD pull spammer - is only really manageable by constant CC immunity uptime and staying far away from potential targets. Even then, you'll get got sometimes just from desync, and unlucky hits during CC immunity downtime, etc. One thing that keeps RoA *slightly* in check is the large number of inexperienced players throwing out free CC immunity to enemies almost constantly (eg, javelin or chain spammers).

AngryNecro · March 14

kiwi_tea wrote: »

Why would you even combine RoA with DC? It totally dilutes what makes RoA strong, which is that it doesn't apply CC immunity. Dark Convergence undermines that because it DOES apply CC immunity. Also, they're not great in combination just generally. The build sounds bad, so it isn't shocking that people aren't have issues with it and finding it easy to avoid. I don't need advice on how to a avoid a Necro running RoA + DC in combination, cos I don't think I'd ever find that a threat. Thanks though.

A *good* RoA build - a brawler bomber or VD pull spammer - is only really manageable by constant CC immunity uptime and staying far away from potential targets. Even then, you'll get got sometimes just from desync, and unlucky hits during CC immunity downtime, etc. One thing that keeps RoA *slightly* in check is the large number of inexperienced players throwing out free CC immunity to enemies almost constantly (eg, javelin or chain spammers).

yap you so strong for RoE + DC but cry for Roe lol) well see you on BG) and if you dont now attraction with sets and skills works without cc. If you now how to resist all this then why this constant hysteria and persecution of these sets? let's resist, prevail, but if you don't care that they're trying to explain to you that there's nothing wrong with these sets, then why bring up these topics all the time? It looks like you don't need a solution, you need to complain. Just put these sets on yourself and the problem will be solved.

kiwi_tea · March 14

AngryNecro wrote: »

kiwi_tea wrote: »

Why would you even combine RoA with DC? It totally dilutes what makes RoA strong, which is that it doesn't apply CC immunity. Dark Convergence undermines that because it DOES apply CC immunity. Also, they're not great in combination just generally. The build sounds bad, so it isn't shocking that people aren't have issues with it and finding it easy to avoid. I don't need advice on how to a avoid a Necro running RoA + DC in combination, cos I don't think I'd ever find that a threat. Thanks though.

A *good* RoA build - a brawler bomber or VD pull spammer - is only really manageable by constant CC immunity uptime and staying far away from potential targets. Even then, you'll get got sometimes just from desync, and unlucky hits during CC immunity downtime, etc. One thing that keeps RoA *slightly* in check is the large number of inexperienced players throwing out free CC immunity to enemies almost constantly (eg, javelin or chain spammers).

yap you so strong for RoE + DC but cry for Roe lol) well see you on BG) and if you dont now attraction with sets and skills works without cc. If you now how to resist all this then why this constant hysteria and persecution of these sets? let's resist, prevail, but if you don't care that they're trying to explain to you that there's nothing wrong with these sets, then why bring up these topics all the time? It looks like you don't need a solution, you need to complain. Just put these sets on yourself and the problem will be solved.

I literally argued that Dark Convergence was not a big issue earlier in this thread (it was a huge problem set on first release, and thankfully was tuned back to something reasonable without killing it completely). And if the solution to a set dominating the meta is "put that set on yourself", that's a sign that the meta has an unhealthy centralisation around a particular set.

AngryNecro · March 14

kiwi_tea wrote: »

I literally argued that Dark Convergence was not a big issue earlier in this thread (it was a huge problem set on first release, and thankfully was tuned back to something reasonable without killing it completely). And if the solution to a set dominating the meta is "put that set on yourself", that's a sign that the meta has an unhealthy centralisation around a particular set.

Meta is a myth xD Nothing is a meta forget this concept)

Ok if RoE is so mutch problem for you what you think about bild bash bilds? its have 3-4 variation and its give you muth more problem then RoA. RoA it only causes you such hysteria because of the forced displacement, which is generally not so scary. But if you believe in the concept of meta, then there are currently builds in the game that fit this concept much more. Stop trying to get to the poor forced displacement sets already. Your tantrums have already ruined two new sets. Is such a victory not enough for you?

kiwi_tea · March 14

AngryNecro wrote: »

kiwi_tea wrote: »

I literally argued that Dark Convergence was not a big issue earlier in this thread (it was a huge problem set on first release, and thankfully was tuned back to something reasonable without killing it completely). And if the solution to a set dominating the meta is "put that set on yourself", that's a sign that the meta has an unhealthy centralisation around a particular set.

Meta is a myth xD Nothing is a meta forget this concept)

Ok if RoE is so mutch problem for you what you think about bild bash bilds? its have 3-4 variation and its give you muth more problem then RoA. RoA it only causes you such hysteria because of the forced displacement, which is generally not so scary. But if you believe in the concept of meta, then there are currently builds in the game that fit this concept much more. Stop trying to get to the poor forced displacement sets already. Your tantrums have already ruined two new sets. Is such a victory not enough for you?

Meta is *descriptive*, not *prescriptive*. It's not a myth, because it is merely a description of the state of balance within a game.

Bash builds are *sometimes* strong in group play as a harder form of CC, but generally very weak due to having poor sustain. Bash builds are annoying more often than they are threatening to kill people. Bash sorc, built well, is about the best a bash build can get thanks to streak, and even that is not such a big threat.

Bash builds as a mechanic aren't even in the same ball park of top tier threat as strong RoA builds are.

The question you need to ask about builds is not "can this build kill bad players", it's "can this build kill mid to top tier players reliably without getting killed first".

Nearly everything can pass the first question. On the second, more crucial question, bash builds fail, while RoA builds do not fail. Good players know the counterplay to bash builds. Good players, within the window that CC immunity happens to be down, have extremely limited counterplay to RoA. On NZ ping even good line of sighting doesn't help, because you'll pulled from behind what, on your screen, appears to be a wall. And you'll be pulled again and again while trying to reposition to turn the fight because you don't get CC immunity until it comes off cooldown, meaning the RoA player (or worse, players) potentially has complete control of your positioning within a uncomfortably long window.